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(Fark Fiction Anthology)   "Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind." --Rudyard Kipling. This is your Fark Writer's Thread, Drug Dealing Edition   (farkfiction.net) divider line
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518 clicks; posted to Main » and Discussion » on 30 Nov 2022 at 3:45 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-11-30 3:04:45 PM  
Joseph Rudyard Kipling was an English novelist, short story writer, poet, and journalist who brought many brilliant works to the world including The Jungle Book, Kim, Rikki-Tikki-Tavi, and the poem "The White Man's Burden" and *record screech* oh crap let's stop there.

Yes, Kipling was an imperialist, a colonialist, a racist, and a right-wing warmonger who has been the subject of protests and had his poems painted over by furious students. Born in British India, he could possibly be considered a product of his time, especially considering that he received the Nobel Prize for literature in 1907. He was a fervent anti-communist, and while he had swastikas !!! printed on the introductory pages of his books he saw them as referring to the Sanskrit word for 'fortunate' and abandoned that practice once they symbol had been associated with Hitler. He called Mussolini a 'deranged and dangerous egomaniac' and in 1933 he wrote 'The Hitlerites are out for blood' so at least he saw where things were going.

On his death in 1936, he was cremated and interred at Westminster Abbey in the Poet's Corner out of recognition by the still extant British Empire and probably served as the voice of Victorian era imperialism for generations on both sides, the imperialists and the victims of empire.

Some writers can be read for enjoyment, but some perhaps should best be studied at arm's length and learned from. As someone who writes primarily horror I don't often recommend anyone read H.P. Lovecraft, for similar reasons, but he created an entire genre and inspired generations of writers. Perhaps some writers can be studied in the equivalent of biosafety lab that studies plague viruses.

This page lists thirty observations on writing short stories by Rudyard Kipling.

I'm not going to list them all (jeez, there's already a page with them) but they're all excellent and some of them stand out:

A tale is made to be read as well as written. Read it, therefore, aloud at every stage of its manufacture. This is one we see a lot, and one I always recommend myself. Read your work out loud!

There is only one way in which a tale should be told and that is to make the reader believe that he has found it. Or as seen elsewhere: lead the reader to the realization, but let them make it.

The shortest word is the best word, except where it is borne in upon you that it is not. Okay, I probably wouldn't have used 'borne' there.

Be accurate to a scruple in the most casual allusion or inference or technical term for the world is full of specialists to catch you tripping. Research and technical accuracy is key. Nothing knocks a reader out of the suspension of disbelief faster than realizing that the writer doesn't know what they're talking about.

Don't be afraid of anything in the world. Well, maybe be afraid of being judged by people a hundred years down the road.

Writer's Question of the Week!

Can we learn from creators who are otherwise repellent? How do you separate the art from the artist?

Fark Fiction Anthology Update!

In case you missed it, the 2022 Fark Fiction Anthology is live! We'll be taking a short break until next year and will open for submissions sometime in the spring.
 
2022-11-30 3:56:12 PM  
Love is the drug for me.
 
2022-11-30 4:01:12 PM  
toraque, was your story in the anthology (The God Function) an excuse to make a "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower came" joke?

Good story, and didn't end the way I expected. Spent quite a while reading it wondering why it was in Horror until a bit before the end. Nicely done.
 
2022-11-30 4:12:42 PM  
"Can we learn from creators who are otherwise repellent? How do you separate the art from the artist? "

I've always admired Kipling although he does say some repellent British pukka sahib things. His poetry is very simple and amounts mostly to story-telling in verse, with some exceptions. I'm not sure he should be in the Poet's Corner, but I had nothing to say about it. I also read "Kim" in high school and did not really understand it, and I disliked it. I should probably revisit it. It's been a long time. "How do you separate..." only in your own mind.

"Be accurate to a scruple in the most casual allusion or inference or technical term..." Indeed. Unless you've been there, as Kipling was, this takes research. I suspect this is why so many would-be Tolkiens are trying to make their own fantasy worlds, but the worlds lack coherence. I can't stand them. Tolkien had the knowledge of myth and language to make a new myth and language. He had done the research and he extended it in his imagination.

By the way, the Amazon page for the Doomscrolling anthology lacks a table of contents. I think that showing it might help sales. What do you think?
 
2022-11-30 4:15:01 PM  
I finished my Nanowrimo novel today.  ~72,000 words.
Now the editing begins. Paperback needs to be in my sticky tentacles, for sale, by Feb 3. So I've got a lot of work ahead of me.
 
2022-11-30 4:17:32 PM  
Everything is a drug...
 
2022-11-30 4:20:40 PM  
also

GIS
 
2022-11-30 4:35:03 PM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: I finished my Nanowrimo novel today.  ~72,000 words.
Now the editing begins. Paperback needs to be in my sticky tentacles, for sale, by Feb 3. So I've got a lot of work ahead of me.


I once wrote a story a little longer than that (a Nero Wolfe pastiche, which I've lost on the computer) and someone told me it was too short to be a novel and too long to be a novelette. Can you explain how that works?
 
2022-11-30 4:47:46 PM  

WastrelWay: Spawn_of_Cthulhu: I finished my Nanowrimo novel today.  ~72,000 words.
Now the editing begins. Paperback needs to be in my sticky tentacles, for sale, by Feb 3. So I've got a lot of work ahead of me.

I once wrote a story a little longer than that (a Nero Wolfe pastiche, which I've lost on the computer) and someone told me it was too short to be a novel and too long to be a novelette. Can you explain how that works?


Under 50k is a novella.
50-80k is a short novel.
80k+ is a proper novel.

To me, it's "a book." I'm doing it all myself and labels don't matter except genre (cosmic horror, in this case).

Publishers are interested in length and it will affect how much it costs to print your paperback by a little.
 
2022-11-30 4:57:49 PM  
I was shooting for fifty thousand words for the book I'm writing. I'm just at the climax, the beginning of the end. I'm limiting myself to sixty thousand. I have six thousand to work with.  I'm hoping keeping the page count down will make the book cheaper, and thin enough for people to take a chance on reading.

I put this scene in this week.

He led them away from the house through the forest, making as much noise as he could. He would yell out in pain or cuss the rocks and trees, to keep the brothers behind him. He was now on a small trail going up and down through ravines. He waited for them at the top of a hill, listening to them crash into the trail below him. "There he is," Ernie said, pointing the flashlight on the dark figure ahead of them.

Ant turned to run when he saw a dark figure coming at him on the trail. He recognized it as a bear when it rose on it's back legs and looked Ant in the eyes. "Beat it smokey," Ant warned. The bear growled angrily at him instead, and Ant opened fire on the bear with his can of repellent, asking the bear if he wants some more.

The bear instead fell backwards rolling down the trail before crashing into the brush. Ant had no time to celebrate, diving into the bush, pulling out his gun as he hid. The brothers came over the hill in time to see something going into the brush and followed, Eric yelling, "You're ours now Foster," giving a cheer.
 
2022-11-30 4:59:31 PM  
Rudyard Kipling never tried carfentanyl...

Also, what mother names her child "Rudyard"?  That's child abuse, right there...
 
2022-11-30 5:02:02 PM  
That's why I eschew reading; don't want to OD.
 
2022-11-30 5:08:34 PM  
My English teacher asked me what I thought of Kipling and I said, "I don't know.  I've never kippled."
 
2022-11-30 5:11:26 PM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: WastrelWay: Spawn_of_Cthulhu: I finished my Nanowrimo novel today.  ~72,000 words.
Now the editing begins. Paperback needs to be in my sticky tentacles, for sale, by Feb 3. So I've got a lot of work ahead of me.

I once wrote a story a little longer than that (a Nero Wolfe pastiche, which I've lost on the computer) and someone told me it was too short to be a novel and too long to be a novelette. Can you explain how that works?

Under 50k is a novella.
50-80k is a short novel.
80k+ is a proper novel.

To me, it's "a book." I'm doing it all myself and labels don't matter except genre (cosmic horror, in this case).

Publishers are interested in length and it will affect how much it costs to print your paperback by a little.


Thanks. I was corresponding with a knowledgeable guy about my short stories a month or two ago and he said that publishers want novels, not short stories. That disappointed me. I don't have it in me to write a novel. I'd rather write a story and get it over with. Enough stories, and I'll have "a book." Maybe.
 
2022-11-30 5:14:36 PM  
If you can keep your head when all about you
   Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
   But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
   Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
   And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream-and not make dreams your master;
   If you can think-and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
   And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
   Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
   And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
   And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
   And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
   To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
   Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
   Or walk with Kings-nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
   If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
   With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
   And-which is more-you'll be a Man, my son!
 
2022-11-30 5:31:13 PM  

WastrelWay: Spawn_of_Cthulhu: WastrelWay: Spawn_of_Cthulhu: I finished my Nanowrimo novel today.  ~72,000 words.
Now the editing begins. Paperback needs to be in my sticky tentacles, for sale, by Feb 3. So I've got a lot of work ahead of me.

I once wrote a story a little longer than that (a Nero Wolfe pastiche, which I've lost on the computer) and someone told me it was too short to be a novel and too long to be a novelette. Can you explain how that works?

Under 50k is a novella.
50-80k is a short novel.
80k+ is a proper novel.

To me, it's "a book." I'm doing it all myself and labels don't matter except genre (cosmic horror, in this case).

Publishers are interested in length and it will affect how much it costs to print your paperback by a little.

Thanks. I was corresponding with a knowledgeable guy about my short stories a month or two ago and he said that publishers want novels, not short stories. That disappointed me. I don't have it in me to write a novel. I'd rather write a story and get it over with. Enough stories, and I'll have "a book." Maybe.


There are loads of anthologies and magazines looking for short fiction! Check duotrope or submission grinder. There are also Facebook pages by genre that list sub calls monthly.
 
2022-11-30 5:51:30 PM  

Breaker Moran: Love is the drug for me.


Mine is weed
 
2022-11-30 6:00:42 PM  
gurd is the anti-drug.
 
2022-11-30 6:03:11 PM  

Wenchmaster: toraque, was your story in the anthology (The God Function) an excuse to make a "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower came" joke?

Good story, and didn't end the way I expected. Spent quite a while reading it wondering why it was in Horror until a bit before the end. Nicely done.


Not really a joke, but definitely a reference. Stephen King got eight novels out of so I figured I'd see what I could do. Partly it's something that some readers might catch and get hints about the story from, but mostly it's just to feed my literary pretensions. I have a full novel threaded with Yeats' The Second Coming in the same way.

WastrelWay: By the way, the Amazon page for the Doomscrolling anthology lacks a table of contents. I think that showing it might help sales. What do you think?


I'll see if I can get the Amazon page updated, but it means going through the approval process again so it might not be quick.
 
2022-11-30 6:36:48 PM  

foo monkey: My English teacher asked me what I thought of Kipling and I said, "I don't know.  I've never kippled."


I say the same thing when people ask me about Stephen King.
 
2022-11-30 6:37:49 PM  

sandbar67: Breaker Moran: Love is the drug for me.

Mine is weed


Yeah, but have you ever tried weed... on spice?
 
2022-11-30 6:40:26 PM  
Unless you go to the pol tab, then its like you misleadingly picked the wrong kind of shooms from your backyard.
 
2022-11-30 8:13:58 PM  

mad cowboy: I was shooting for fifty thousand words for the book I'm writing. I'm just at the climax, the beginning of the end. I'm limiting myself to sixty thousand. I have six thousand to work with.  I'm hoping keeping the page count down will make the book cheaper, and thin enough for people to take a chance on reading.

I put this scene in this week.

He led them away from the house through the forest, making as much noise as he could. He would yell out in pain or cuss the rocks and trees, to keep the brothers behind him. He was now on a small trail going up and down through ravines. He waited for them at the top of a hill, listening to them crash into the trail below him. "There he is," Ernie said, pointing the flashlight on the dark figure ahead of them.

Ant turned to run when he saw a dark figure coming at him on the trail. He recognized it as a bear when it rose on it's back legs and looked Ant in the eyes. "Beat it smokey," Ant warned. The bear growled angrily at him instead, and Ant opened fire on the bear with his can of repellent, asking the bear if he wants some more.

The bear instead fell backwards rolling down the trail before crashing into the brush. Ant had no time to celebrate, diving into the bush, pulling out his gun as he hid. The brothers came over the hill in time to see something going into the brush and followed, Eric yelling, "You're ours now Foster," giving a cheer.


1) Very distracting change of tense at the end of the middle paragraph.

2) "Art turned to run when"...  He saw a bear and then he turned to run?  Back towards his attackers? I think what you're trying to say is that Art had just turned to run when...  But the scene doesn't make any sense unless Art is over crest of the hill and out of view of his pursuers before the bear appears, and you've skipped that bit.

3) Repeating "dark figure" is awkward.   Part of the reason this bothers me is that the first use is from the pursuers' perspective, the second from Foster's.  I think the scene makes most sense from Foster's perspective, so I'd drop the first "dark figure".

4) Is this some kind of genetically modified or cybernetic bear?  Because wild bears don't act like that.
 
2022-11-30 9:46:39 PM  
If publishers don't want short fiction, I can publish my stuff myself. Speaking of which, I promised last week I'd put up a few things. Didn't happen, for several reasons. Time is in short supply.

I'm starting part 33. Had an idea for the last line, wrote it down at the bottom of the page. Wrote the next to last above it. Now I'm trying to write the whole thing backwards. Anyone know if it's been done?

Repellant creators? I'm a big HPL fan, I can separate the xenophobe from the writer while acknowledging that
 
2022-11-30 9:58:07 PM  

Russell_Secord: I'm starting part 33. Had an idea for the last line, wrote it down at the bottom of the page. Wrote the next to last above it. Now I'm trying to write the whole thing backwards. Anyone know if it's been done?


Typically, I don't write in order.
 
2022-11-30 10:42:05 PM  
He led them away from the house through the forest, making as much noise as he could. He would yell out in pain or cuss the rocks and trees, to keep the brothers behind him. He was now on a small trail going up and down through ravines. He waited for them at the top of a hill, listening to them crash into the trail below him. "There he is," Ernie said, pointing the flashlight on the dark figure ahead of them.

Ant turned to run when he saw a dark figure coming at him on the trail. He recognized it as a bear when it rose on it's back legs and looked Ant in the eyes. "Beat it smokey," Ant warned. The bear growled angrily at him instead, and Ant opened fire on the bear with his can of repellent, asking the bear if he wants some more.

The bear instead fell backwards rolling down the trail before crashing into the brush. Ant had no time to celebrate, diving into the bush, pulling out his gun as he hid. The brothers came over the hill in time to see something going into the brush and followed, Eric yelling, "You're ours now Foster," giving a cheer.

1) Very distracting change of tense at the end of the middle paragraph.

2) "Art turned to run when"...  He saw a bear and then he turned to run?  Back towards his attackers? I think what you're trying to say is that Art had just turned to run when...  But the scene doesn't make any sense unless Art is over crest of the hill and out of view of his pursuers before the bear appears, and you've skipped that bit.

3) Repeating "dark figure" is awkward.   Part of the reason this bothers me is that the first use is from the pursuers' perspective, the second from Foster's.  I think ...

Very distracting change of tense at the end of the middle paragraph. I'm not sure what that is

"Art turned to run when, I'm short on words but I could of said to run from the guys chasing him, but why? Or said then he saw the dark blob coming at him.

Good call on the dark figure, though my sarcastic side says there could be two dark figures at night in the woods. But I'll change that, maybe.

When don't bears act like that? That bothers me, I've never met a bear but I've seen the movies.

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it.
 
2022-12-01 1:04:52 AM  

Sim Tree: gurd is the anti-drug.


the Undrug

c.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2022-12-01 4:31:50 AM  
My copy of Doom Scrolling came in today with my first published story, an then because the UPS person was afraid of dogs and just threw the package on the ground, this is what I received:

Fark user imageView Full Size


I'm still crying.  It hurts, a lot.
 
2022-12-01 5:32:20 AM  

Russell_Secord: If publishers don't want short fiction, I can publish my stuff myself. Speaking of which, I promised last week I'd put up a few things. Didn't happen, for several reasons. Time is in short supply.

I'm starting part 33. Had an idea for the last line, wrote it down at the bottom of the page. Wrote the next to last above it. Now I'm trying to write the whole thing backwards. Anyone know if it's been done?

Repellant creators? I'm a big HPL fan, I can separate the xenophobe from the writer while acknowledging that


I've heard some mystery writers do it that way- starting with the final bit (big reveal with all of the evidence), then working backwards to show how Detective Whatever (like Dr. Who, but with a deerstalker cap) followed the trail of clues.
 
2022-12-01 8:58:25 AM  

Nintenfreak: My copy of Doom Scrolling came in today with my first published story, an then because the UPS person was afraid of dogs and just threw the package on the ground, this is what I received:

[Fark user image 850x637]

I'm still crying.  It hurts, a lot.


Check your email
 
2022-12-01 10:00:33 AM  

mad cowboy: When don't bears act like that? That bothers me, I've never met a bear but I've seen the movies.


If you go running down the trail making a bunch of noise, with two people chasing you not being particularly quiet either, you will meet zero bears.  The only times I've met bears on the trail I was being extremely quiet, or else the bear was a very young cub.   The adult bears disappeared immediately - I mean vanished in a snap.  Never seen one rear up like in the movies, and I don't know anyone who has.
 
2022-12-01 12:42:11 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
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