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(Guardian)   Germany follows up on their criticism of Qatar's human rights record by signing a 15 year contract to buy Qatari natural gas. That'll teach 'em   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, Natural gas, Qatar, tonnes of liquid gas, priority Germany places, state-owned Qatar Energy, 15-year deal, German firms, Carbon dioxide  
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841 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Nov 2022 at 3:20 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-11-30 3:21:37 PM  
Well, Qatar wanted a 25 year deal. Way to stand strong.
 
2022-11-30 3:23:55 PM  
Let's make a list of countries capable of exporting a lot of natural gas with superb human rights records:
 
2022-11-30 3:24:08 PM  
Hydrocarbons?

That doesn't sound like green energy.
 
2022-11-30 3:24:08 PM  
Well... they have a history

Gas Bill
Youtube 3EyHf9nDTEc
 
2022-11-30 3:28:37 PM  
Welp, they're replacing Russian gas. And, at present, Russia has about the worst possible human rights record a country could possibly have. So I guess you could think of Qatar as an upgrade vis-a-vis human rights. So there's that I guess.
 
2022-11-30 3:29:41 PM  
Damn the German Men's Football Team for signing off on this!!!
 
2022-11-30 3:30:16 PM  
Everything's cool.

"The gas will be sold by Qatar to the US company ConocoPhillips"

And then they will deliver to Germany. It's like money-laundering!
 
2022-11-30 3:30:25 PM  
Two million tonnes of liquid gas correspond to about 30 terawatt hours (TWh) or 3% of annual German energy consumption.

So... spread over 15 years... that's 0.20% of their energy supply per year, assuming that consumption never increases (which it will)

Yeah, that's a pretty tiny amount.
 
2022-11-30 3:30:46 PM  
Better than Russia.  Slightly.
 
2022-11-30 3:31:47 PM  
It's like Angela never left
 
2022-11-30 3:32:20 PM  

Troy McClure: Let's make a list of countries capable of exporting a lot of natural gas with superb human rights records:


That shouldn't take more than a couple seconds...
 
2022-11-30 3:34:17 PM  
It's almost like they are gaslighting about the environment.
 
2022-11-30 3:36:01 PM  

jake3988: Two million tonnes of liquid gas correspond to about 30 terawatt hours (TWh) or 3% of annual German energy consumption.

So... spread over 15 years... that's 0.20% of their energy supply per year, assuming that consumption never increases (which it will)

Yeah, that's a pretty tiny amount.



If it's that small, then why not build more windmills and solar panels?  Seriously.

Wasn't that the plan that got this new group elected?
 
2022-11-30 3:36:30 PM  

Troy McClure: Let's make a list of countries capable of exporting a lot of natural gas with superb human rights records:


Norway?
 
2022-11-30 3:38:12 PM  

jim32rr: It's like Angela never left


Seems like parties almost don't matter much there.  Good old Gerhard, to the left of Merkel, was best buds with Putin and helped run Russia's gas programs.  Angela killed their nuclear program. And the person announcing this deal with Qatar is a Green party member.
 
2022-11-30 3:50:13 PM  
They are moving away from Russia, they still need gas... I mean...

We don't live on a happy little planet you know.
 
2022-11-30 3:57:22 PM  

Hinged: jake3988: Two million tonnes of liquid gas correspond to about 30 terawatt hours (TWh) or 3% of annual German energy consumption.

So... spread over 15 years... that's 0.20% of their energy supply per year, assuming that consumption never increases (which it will)

Yeah, that's a pretty tiny amount.


If it's that small, then why not build more windmills and solar panels?  Seriously.

Wasn't that the plan that got this new group elected?


Windmills and solar panels are used to make electricity.

Natural Gas is used primarily to heat houses.  That's going to be the purpose.

You can heat houses with electricity, but you'd need to retrofit houses to do that... not to mention, it's not as efficient, which is why most modern houses don't do that.
 
2022-11-30 3:58:17 PM  
This is the thread where liberals realize they desperately need resources from conservatives to allow them to continue living in their bubbles of arrogance.

Then again, it's not like Germany has a whole lot of sun and wind to go around. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
2022-11-30 4:01:29 PM  

wildcardjack: Troy McClure: Let's make a list of countries capable of exporting a lot of natural gas with superb human rights records:

Norway?


Germany is already buying all of the gas Norway is capable of exporting.
 
2022-11-30 4:03:24 PM  

Flushing It All Away: This is the thread where liberals realize they desperately need resources from conservatives to allow them to continue living in their bubbles of arrogance.

Then again, it's not like Germany has a whole lot of sun and wind to go around. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Germany is in a decades long process of getting away from coal, natural gas, and nuclear power by going all in on geothermal power, but it is going to be 20 or 30 years before they're fully done switching over.
 
2022-11-30 4:06:44 PM  

jake3988: Hinged: jake3988: Two million tonnes of liquid gas correspond to about 30 terawatt hours (TWh) or 3% of annual German energy consumption.

So... spread over 15 years... that's 0.20% of their energy supply per year, assuming that consumption never increases (which it will)

Yeah, that's a pretty tiny amount.


If it's that small, then why not build more windmills and solar panels?  Seriously.

Wasn't that the plan that got this new group elected?

Windmills and solar panels are used to make electricity.

Natural Gas is used primarily to heat houses.  That's going to be the purpose.

You can heat houses with electricity, but you'd need to retrofit houses to do that... not to mention, it's not as efficient, which is why most modern houses don't do that.



Most modern homes (virtually all) have central air/heat.  

Natural gas is normally for the hot water heater.


Germany (and Europe) might be different, though.  They burn American trees for energy.


/can't imagine a new home (in 2022) being built with gas furnaces in the rooms
 
2022-11-30 4:10:59 PM  

Hinged: jake3988: Hinged: jake3988: Two million tonnes of liquid gas correspond to about 30 terawatt hours (TWh) or 3% of annual German energy consumption.

So... spread over 15 years... that's 0.20% of their energy supply per year, assuming that consumption never increases (which it will)

Yeah, that's a pretty tiny amount.


If it's that small, then why not build more windmills and solar panels?  Seriously.

Wasn't that the plan that got this new group elected?

Windmills and solar panels are used to make electricity.

Natural Gas is used primarily to heat houses.  That's going to be the purpose.

You can heat houses with electricity, but you'd need to retrofit houses to do that... not to mention, it's not as efficient, which is why most modern houses don't do that.


Most modern homes (virtually all) have central air/heat.  

Natural gas is normally for the hot water heater.


Germany (and Europe) might be different, though.  They burn American trees for energy.


/can't imagine a new home (in 2022) being built with gas furnaces in the rooms


Gas is still the cheapest energy source per BTU of heat produced out there.

Electricity is orders of magnitude higher.
 
2022-11-30 4:15:46 PM  
The problem is that most of the world's available oil is owned by rogue states, dictators, and those with gross human rights violations.  So you're fairly limited once you take a moral stand.
What a crazy world.
 
2022-11-30 4:18:07 PM  

jake3988: So... spread over 15 years... that's 0.20% of their energy supply per year, assuming that consumption never increases (which it will)


It's not spread over 15 years.  The Guardian article was deeply unclear, but other sources say it's 2 MTonnes or 30 TWh per year.Which is really very close to the amount produced by the three last reactors they still plan to shut down next year (or the three they shut down last year).
 
2022-11-30 4:24:20 PM  
When I used to buy weed I never gave a fark about who was selling organically grown free range weed harvested with fair trade practices. I wanted good weed for cheap, that's all.
 
2022-11-30 5:12:44 PM  
For some reason, the Germans are averse to Nuclear Power. Probably about time to reconsider that position.
 
2022-11-30 5:31:57 PM  

Troy McClure: Let's make a list of countries capable of exporting a lot of natural gas with superb human rights records:


Your list is as follows:
1 -
 
2022-11-30 5:37:59 PM  

Troy McClure: Let's make a list of countries capable of exporting a lot of natural gas with superb human rights records:


Done!
 
2022-11-30 5:47:55 PM  

Hinged: Most modern homes (virtually all) have central air/heat.  

Natural gas is normally for the hot water heater.


Germany (and Europe) might be different, though.  They burn American trees for energy.


European places don't use central air.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/07/20/europe-uk-air-conditioning-ac/

"Air-conditioned offices are commonplace in Europe, but it is exceedingly rare to find AC units in homes. According to one industry estimate, just 3 percent of homes in Germany and less than 5 percent of homes in France have air conditioning"
 
2022-11-30 5:49:50 PM  

Flushing It All Away: This is the thread where liberals realize they desperately need resources from conservatives to allow them to continue living in their bubbles of arrogance.


So, to be clear: you're aligning yourself with the likes of Qatar and Russia? "Arrogant" Germany is the bad guy to you? Got it.
 
2022-11-30 5:51:56 PM  
I mean the alternative is buying from the guys actively bombing hospitals in Ukraine... I think this is more a devil of your choice. Maybe in 15 years they'll have enough renewable energy sources to tell all these asshats to go pound sand.
 
2022-11-30 6:15:53 PM  

Diocletian's Last Cabbage: Troy McClure: Let's make a list of countries capable of exporting a lot of natural gas with superb human rights records:

Your list is as follows:
1 -


Canada?
 
2022-11-30 6:24:18 PM  

Hinged: jake3988: Two million tonnes of liquid gas correspond to about 30 terawatt hours (TWh) or 3% of annual German energy consumption.

So... spread over 15 years... that's 0.20% of their energy supply per year, assuming that consumption never increases (which it will)

Yeah, that's a pretty tiny amount.


If it's that small, then why not build more windmills and solar panels?  Seriously.

Wasn't that the plan that got this new group elected?


It's a coalition government, so none of it works that way
 
2022-11-30 6:26:16 PM  

New Burner Account: Hinged: Most modern homes (virtually all) have central air/heat.  

Natural gas is normally for the hot water heater.


Germany (and Europe) might be different, though.  They burn American trees for energy.

European places don't use central air.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/07/20/europe-uk-air-conditioning-ac/

"Air-conditioned offices are commonplace in Europe, but it is exceedingly rare to find AC units in homes. According to one industry estimate, just 3 percent of homes in Germany and less than 5 percent of homes in France have air conditioning"


It's farking cold there all the time. The average high in July in Paris is 78 F
 
2022-11-30 6:26:46 PM  

Flushing It All Away: This is the thread where liberals realize they desperately need resources from conservatives to allow them to continue living in their bubbles of arrogance.

Then again, it's not like Germany has a whole lot of sun and wind to go around. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-11-30 6:29:08 PM  

Hinged: Most modern homes (virtually all) have central air/heat.  

Natural gas is normally for the hot water heater.


Germany (and Europe) might be different, though.  They burn American trees for energy.


/can't imagine a new home (in 2022) being built with gas furnaces in the rooms


Typical modern homes in the UK have a gas furnace/boiler that heats water for washing and for the radiators that heat the house.
Right now my house is being heated solely by a electric powered split unit heat pump.

And the UK has one of the biggest biomass (mostly sawdust crushed into pellets) power stations, to produce electricity not to directly heat houses.
The EU classifies this as green energy because the vast majority of that sawdust is by product of timber production for construction, furniture etc. Sawdust that years ago would have just been thrown out or burnt as waste.
 
2022-11-30 6:31:20 PM  

Flushing It All Away: Gas is still the cheapest energy source per BTU of heat produced out there.

Electricity is orders of magnitude higher.


True. But modern heat pumps are classed as "400% efficient*", meaning they pump out four kw of heat for every one kw of electricity used. I have one heating my home right now.

/*No laws of thermodynamics are being violated. It's just the way they rate them.
 
2022-11-30 6:50:20 PM  
Well, it's not like Germany has a good human rights record involving gas to  begin with.....
 
2022-11-30 7:05:29 PM  
Europe is full of pimps and whores, but not the good kind.
 
2022-11-30 7:08:02 PM  

Super Chronic: Flushing It All Away: This is the thread where liberals realize they desperately need resources from conservatives to allow them to continue living in their bubbles of arrogance.

So, to be clear: you're aligning yourself with the likes of Qatar and Russia? "Arrogant" Germany is the bad guy to you? Got it.


No, arrogance is pushing for energy sources that don't have a snowballs chance in hell of maintaining the level of comfort modern nations have gotten used to.

Instead of realizing that your lifestyles are unsustainable and flogging yourself for your own failures, you seek to export your shame to others.

I align myself with whomever guarantees me the best life for me. That's been first world nations exploiting the rest of the world to establish our comfort.

The modern world is awesome, but at least I'm honest with myself that I'm not willing to forego comfort for some assholes in the third world that can't get out of the way of ... the ocean.
 
2022-11-30 7:22:43 PM  

jake3988: Two million tonnes of liquid gas correspond to about 30 terawatt hours (TWh) or 3% of annual German energy consumption.

So... spread over 15 years... that's 0.20% of their energy supply per year, assuming that consumption never increases (which it will)

Yeah, that's a pretty tiny amount.


If so, then why even bother dealing with Qatar at all?
 
2022-11-30 7:33:58 PM  

jake3988: Hinged: jake3988: Two million tonnes of liquid gas correspond to about 30 terawatt hours (TWh) or 3% of annual German energy consumption.

So... spread over 15 years... that's 0.20% of their energy supply per year, assuming that consumption never increases (which it will)

Yeah, that's a pretty tiny amount.


If it's that small, then why not build more windmills and solar panels?  Seriously.

Wasn't that the plan that got this new group elected?

Windmills and solar panels are used to make electricity.

Natural Gas is used primarily to heat houses.  That's going to be the purpose.

You can heat houses with electricity, but you'd need to retrofit houses to do that... not to mention, it's not as efficient, which is why most modern houses don't do that.


Heat pump is more efficient than resistive heat. Even better if it's ground-source. Downside: the air coming out of vents isn't scalding hot.
 
2022-11-30 7:44:52 PM  

focusthis: jake3988: Two million tonnes of liquid gas correspond to about 30 terawatt hours (TWh) or 3% of annual German energy consumption.

So... spread over 15 years... that's 0.20% of their energy supply per year, assuming that consumption never increases (which it will)

Yeah, that's a pretty tiny amount.

If so, then why even bother dealing with Qatar at all?


The way it has worked out, Qatar has supplied Korea and Japan and China with a lot of natural gas. Australia has ramped up operations and there was a huge glut of natural gas up to the COVID era. With Russia sanctions, that has all disappeared and everyone has been sent scrambling. Even a Japan/Russia venture off Sakhalin has been taken away.

Qatar and Germany are looking ahead and trying to make a stable future. Germany is less likely to get supplies from Norway or Australia or even from Canada or the US. There might be a huge amount coming from Russia in the future, but maybe not. If Russia has to start capping wells, then opening them back up again could be a problem.

Humanity has had a long period of time where rich countries could pick and choose suppliers and weigh factors such as rights, policies, environmentalism, etc. That was a luxury. China is accumulating resources, and the war in Russia is restricting the available resources. It is time for pragmatism and strange bedfellows.

Probably.
 
2022-11-30 7:54:11 PM  
How's that phasing out nuclear working out for you, Germany?
 
2022-11-30 7:59:05 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Flushing It All Away: Gas is still the cheapest energy source per BTU of heat produced out there.

Electricity is orders of magnitude higher.

True. But modern heat pumps are classed as "400% efficient*", meaning they pump out four kw of heat for every one kw of electricity used. I have one heating my home right now.

/*No laws of thermodynamics are being violated. It's just the way they rate them.


I am planting my flag at 200--300%, but this is correct. My comments are mostly to the original poster.

This has been in other threads of various subjects, but it really bears repeating. This is not "Gee Whiz startup company maybe it works" technology. This is "consumer products produced by boring companies that make dishwashers" technology. I am using mine right now, and it is cheap and awesome. It is 5C outside right now. I have one that I use for water heating. I had one for a clothes washer and dryer that was too "cutting edge." It only lasted 10 years before fritzing.

Anyway, there is a YouTube channel that is very reasonable in a Chicago kind of way, called TECHNOLOGY CONNECTIONS that gives a full walk through of how they work and how they are probably better for heating... even in Chicago... than natural gas.

Germany has diverse needs and it needs diverse supplies and resources. It is worth remembering that people seldom make ideal choices. The contract with Qatar makes sense to someone. It is what their infrastructure and customers are expected to need. It might be redundant, or just cheap, or just to serve legacy clients?
 
2022-11-30 8:16:50 PM  
half the co2, 29x the methane!
 
2022-11-30 8:20:24 PM  
Germany dumping nuclear power was stupid. Here in Ontario, nukes provide like 60% of our power, and another 30% is wind and hydro. With any luck, we might even be able to phase out natural gas and oil completely in the next 10-20 years.
 
2022-11-30 8:48:43 PM  

GORDON: Europe is full of pimps and whores, but not the good kind.


And what country isn't?
Have you even once looked at various countries governments?
 
2022-11-30 8:51:10 PM  
BTW love the guys hat. Queen Elizabeth would be jealous.
 
2022-11-30 8:55:08 PM  

2fardownthread: I am planting my flag at 200--300%, but this is correct. My comments are mostly to the original poster.

This has been in other threads of various subjects, but it really bears repeating. This is not "Gee Whiz startup company maybe it works" technology. This is "consumer products produced by boring companies that make dishwashers" technology. I am using mine right now, and it is cheap and awesome.


Yep, I have one in the conservatory, a simple split unit one I installed myself. Cools in summer, heats in winter. It runs off a standard 13A plug so I can plug in a electricity monitor plug and see exactly how many watts it is using, and I can feel the heat coming out and measure the temperature, and I'd say 400% is about right. I have a simple 3kw fan heater to compare it with. The fan heater is slightly higher temperature but the AC pumps out more volume, for a quarter of the electricity.
 
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