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(Guardian)   When the chips are down, labor unions know they have a friend in a White House. Not "The" White House, mind you, but Earl is a union supporter through and through and he lives in a modest white ranch style home. He's good people   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Trade union, Strike action, Railroad workers, Berkshire Hathaway, Rail transport, Joe Biden, railroad labor action, looming strike  
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1404 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Nov 2022 at 2:30 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-11-30 11:57:48 AM  
Politicians have abandoned unions. They just want business happy.

Take libby lib Bill Clinton. One day at the stroke of midnight, American Airlines pilots went on strike. By 12:01 AM, POTUS Bill Clinton had ordered them back to work.

Nobody has unions' backs these days.
 
2022-11-30 12:02:32 PM  
"But union leaders are unhappy that Biden's solution appears to be the imposition of a settlement reached in September that has already been rejected by many..."


As far as I know, they are closely split on this. Like most of the involved inions have approved the deal. But the largest ones will not. The split by workers is then close to 50/50 with an edge for rejecting the deal.

Assuming this close split is still the case, they should be fairly close to a resolution even if there are important differences. It seems pretty farked up to go for a nuke option on either side when a deal that can be supported by most of the workers can probably be reached.

But threatening a strike is a bit of a game of chicken. To get the best deal, you gotta push it far. Threatening to block the strike is also a hard negotiation tool.
 
2022-11-30 12:46:25 PM  
Incredibly disappointing.
 
2022-11-30 12:55:02 PM  
Well, I'm still of the opinion that Joe is an evil old motherfarker, but he's friendlier to labor than any Republican would be.

Trump would have already threatened to operate the railroads with the National Guard.  Because for any problem, any problem, Trump has a solution that is simple and also disastrously stupid.
 
2022-11-30 1:35:00 PM  

edmo: Politicians have abandoned unions. They just want business happy.

Take libby lib Bill Clinton. One day at the stroke of midnight, American Airlines pilots went on strike. By 12:01 AM, POTUS Bill Clinton had ordered them back to work.

Nobody has unions' backs these days.


"The Democratic Party - and the progressive forces within it - have so much going for them. The GOP's economic vision has never been less popular with ordinary Americans, or more irrelevant to their material needs. The U.S. electorate is becoming less white, less racist, and less conservative with each passing year. Social conservatism has never had less appeal for American voters than it does today. The garish spectacle of the Trump-era Republican Party is turning the American suburbs - once a core part of the GOP coalition - purple and blue.

If the Democratic Party wasn't bleeding support from white working-class voters in its old labor strongholds, it would dominate our national politics. Understandably, Democratic partisans often blame their powerlessness on such voters - and the regressive racial views that led them out of Team Blue's tent. But as unions have declined across the Midwest, Democrats haven't just been losing white, working-class voters to revanchist Republicans - they've also been losing them to quiet evenings at home. The NBER study cited by McElwee found that right-to-work laws reduce voter turnout in presidential elections by 2 to 3 percent.

Further, the notion that grassroots organizing cannot make a non-woke white man prioritize his class interests over his racial resentments - and thus, that the Democratic Party's refusal to bolster union organizing was irrelevant to its failure to fend off Trump - is unsupportable. In 2008, labor invested a quarter-billion dollars into Barack Obama's election, allocating the bulk of those funds into burnishing the candidate's support among union voters in the Midwest. That year, unionized white men backed Obama by an 18 percent margin; while nonunionized ones went for John McCain by 16."

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/01/democrats-paid-a-huge-price-for-letting-unions-die.html
 
2022-11-30 1:47:39 PM  
Smash stuff, light fires then strike anyway. If they want a trade war, make them bleed.
 
2022-11-30 2:32:31 PM  
Keep doubling down and we're going to get a wildcat rail workers strike and that's just all there is to it.
Best start listening to those workers. They've got legit grievances. They go on strike and they'll have a lot of public support.
 
2022-11-30 2:33:02 PM  
Unions are supposed to be the Democrats' big-money counter to Republican corporate cash. This isn't smart.
 
2022-11-30 2:33:51 PM  
Strike anyway. Everyone deserves paid sick leave.

If a strike could cost 2billion a day, they can afford to give the workers paid sick days
 
2022-11-30 2:34:34 PM  

Puglio: Unions are supposed to be the Democrats' big-money counter to Republican corporate cash. This isn't smart.


We could still see a national rail workers strike. The members have to accept the deal and that's not clear yet if they will.
 
2022-11-30 2:35:59 PM  

Weaver95: Puglio: Unions are supposed to be the Democrats' big-money counter to Republican corporate cash. This isn't smart.

We could still see a national rail workers strike. The members have to accept the deal and that's not clear yet if they will.


Why would anyone mark that comment as funny?
So weird.
 
2022-11-30 2:36:00 PM  
MSNBC just cornered a union rep and asked that even though Biden did this " He is still the best union president ever?".
Lol
 
2022-11-30 2:37:30 PM  

Weaver95: Keep doubling down and we're going to get a wildcat rail workers strike and that's just all there is to it.
Best start listening to those workers. They've got legit grievances. They go on strike and they'll have a lot of public support.


Up until gas prices rise and tanks run out. Then the rail roads will blame "greedy" unions and are able to hire scabs for minimum wage.
 
2022-11-30 2:39:30 PM  

End_Of_Line: Weaver95: Keep doubling down and we're going to get a wildcat rail workers strike and that's just all there is to it.
Best start listening to those workers. They've got legit grievances. They go on strike and they'll have a lot of public support.

Up until gas prices rise and tanks run out. Then the rail roads will blame "greedy" unions and are able to hire scabs for minimum wage.


I'm sure that's what they'll try and say, sure. I mean it's not going to work and nobody will believe the lies....but you're absolutely right about what the rich people are going to do. Lie their gotdamn farking asses off.
 
2022-11-30 2:39:32 PM  
If the government can "force" them to work, I guess they should all quit at once. Pretty hard to run it with zero workers wouldn't it? This "you have to work or else" mentality that the government and big business uses has got to stop, along with mandatory overtime.

Yesterday I was in the Burger King drive through, and they had one of their drive throughs blocked off. There was a long line, and it still took a long time to get food. I'm not complaining, low staff.

But then I thought about it. It's supposed to work that when there's a labor shortage, you raise wages until you have enough workers. But they aren't doing that. They are forcing a minimum amount of workers to do overtime and extra work. In my case, mandatory overtime sanctioned by and for the federal government.

They are just planning on things getting bad enough that we all have to accept slave wages again. That second drive through is brand new, put in in the last six months. They don't plan on raising wages to fill in the workers to staff it, they are just making everyone suffer until the economy is bad enough that it all "evens out." Just like the fed by raising rates and saying "unemployment is too low and we need it higher." It's frightening. It's enraging. There's no way to fix it.

Sorry for the tangent, but I think it fits: the government and corporate America don't care about us, don't care that they are underpaying, overworking, and treating us like slaves. The government is showing that with the union vote here, corporate America shows it in our everyday life.
 
2022-11-30 2:39:55 PM  
Unions are the backbone of the country. Yes, some of them are bloated and may have lost their way, but they're the part of America that has actually forced the adoption of worker's rights.

Joe Biden, Nancy, Hakeem, and Pete Buttigieg are all standing against the unions demanding the ability to call in sick during the middle of the COVID pandemic.

That's actually what this contract is about. Sick leave. During COVID. And not even ridiculous amount of sick leave like 30 days or something. But, like 2-5.

That's what the Democrats have decided to take a stand against (we already know the Republicans are against it). It goes hand in hand with today's vote for Hakeem and Pete Aguilar to lead the party and March toward corporate interests.

Joe Biden is going full Reagan. You never go full Reagan.
 
2022-11-30 2:40:13 PM  
Four of the 12 railroad unions representing a majority of the railroad workforce have rejected a tentative new union contract agreement which fails to address their concerns. If any of the 12 unions go on strike, each union has agreed to honor the picket line.

That may be, but why aren't all 12 unions in agreement?

Why is Biden getting the brunt of the blame?
 
2022-11-30 2:41:09 PM  
but if they strike what if my lead-based tchotchkes from China don't arrive in time for christmas?!?!
 
2022-11-30 2:41:33 PM  
I'm shocked that the guy nominated at the insurance and pharma lobbies' behest and who declared COVID to be just the flu based on the research by the immunologists at Delta Airlines would crush workers for wanting health care close to that in developed countries.
 
2022-11-30 2:42:00 PM  

whidbey: Four of the 12 railroad unions representing a majority of the railroad workforce have rejected a tentative new union contract agreement which fails to address their concerns. If any of the 12 unions go on strike, each union has agreed to honor the picket line.

That may be, but why aren't all 12 unions in agreement?

Why is Biden getting the brunt of the blame?


So all of this is being held up by a minority of the railroad unions?
 
2022-11-30 2:43:14 PM  

whidbey: Four of the 12 railroad unions representing a majority of the railroad workforce have rejected a tentative new union contract agreement which fails to address their concerns. If any of the 12 unions go on strike, each union has agreed to honor the picket line.

That may be, but why aren't all 12 unions in agreement?

Why is Biden getting the brunt of the blame?


Biden is getting the brunt of the blame because he's sticking his nose in union affairs and siding with the corporate interests who refuse to give overtime.

If Biden had just let everything play out after they rejected his administration's negotiated deal, he wouldn't be receiving any criticism. And, he'd be receiving kudos if he actually supported the unions who are seeking sick time during a pandemic.
 
2022-11-30 2:43:54 PM  

Mrtraveler01: whidbey: Four of the 12 railroad unions representing a majority of the railroad workforce have rejected a tentative new union contract agreement which fails to address their concerns. If any of the 12 unions go on strike, each union has agreed to honor the picket line.

That may be, but why aren't all 12 unions in agreement?

Why is Biden getting the brunt of the blame?

So all of this is being held up by a minority of the railroad unions?


I'm sure this is a trick question, but yes, that's what it looks like, Labor isn't even on the same page over this.
 
2022-11-30 2:44:14 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


It's pretty damning that Marco f*cking Rubio is making public statements more supportive of unions than actual Democrats.
 
2022-11-30 2:44:18 PM  
this is one of those crappy Sophie's choice moments.

option one:  Side with labor and risk a painful economic impact.  Rightwing media consume the airwaves on bs stories of how democrats cratered the economy.  giving the GQP the only popular talking point to sway "independents" who don't pay attention.  lose the house senate and presidency the general election in 2024.

option two:  press for the marginally unpopular deal with the unions and avoid possible economic impact.  this robs the right of a "bloody shirt to wave along the campaign trail.  meanwhile box the GQP into owning any problems they cause by farking with the debt ceiling and SS.  Build a strong campaign platform over the next 2 years, while focusing to pass more labor friendly laws with larger majorities in congress and a democratic president after 2024.
 
2022-11-30 2:45:57 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


I'm so f*cking angry about this. Do the Democrats not see how insanely horrible this looks for them? You might as well just go to every union and say, "Vote for Republicans."

You know how much paid sick leave the railroads were offering? Three f*cking days a year. And they had to be approved 30 days in advance. Would you accept that at your job?
 
2022-11-30 2:46:03 PM  

severedtoe: Rightwing media consume the airwaves on bs stories of how democrats cratered the economy.


They're going to do this anyway, always and forever. Just do the right thing.
 
2022-11-30 2:46:30 PM  
It's time for labor to rise up and teach this stupid farking country a short and sharp lesson.

"We're gonna make your strikes illegal, if you strike we'll disband your union, arrest the leaders, and fire you"
"What are you gonna do chain us up in the trains and make us run them?  You'll need weeks or months of the country being totally non-functional to replace us and If we can't use our union to represent our interests we have nothing to lose.  Time for an illegal strike"

Don't let Biden/Reagan turn you into the next Flight Controllers union.  fark him up.
 
2022-11-30 2:46:37 PM  

severedtoe: this is one of those crappy Sophie's choice moments.

option one:  Side with labor and risk a painful economic impact.  Rightwing media consume the airwaves on bs stories of how democrats cratered the economy.  giving the GQP the only popular talking point to sway "independents" who don't pay attention.  lose the house senate and presidency the general election in 2024.

option two:  press for the marginally unpopular deal with the unions and avoid possible economic impact.  this robs the right of a "bloody shirt to wave along the campaign trail.  meanwhile box the GQP into owning any problems they cause by farking with the debt ceiling and SS.  Build a strong campaign platform over the next 2 years, while focusing to pass more labor friendly laws with larger majorities in congress and a democratic president after 2024.


Option three:  use your power and influence as f*cking president and congress to pressure the railroads into offering humane, fair contracts.
 
2022-11-30 2:46:40 PM  
The tricky part is that the rail companies could care less if their engineers go on strike because they know several things:

- The engineers and crews will need paychecks eventually.  No work, no pay. At some point those needing the money will break rank and work.  Or they'll just hire scabs.

- The engineers and crews will need medical insurance. If not for them, for their families. Again, no work, no insurance. And see aforementioned point for what will happen.

- The railroads will just precision schedule railroad (PSR) their way through this with less crews, and longer trains (MUCH longer trains). And since the big 4 are all in cahoots with each other, they'll hold the American economy hostage while blaming labor unions for 'not bargaining in good faith' and 'delaying the country's economic recovery'.
 
2022-11-30 2:47:18 PM  

kbronsito: "But union leaders are unhappy that Biden's solution appears to be the imposition of a settlement reached in September that has already been rejected by many..."


As far as I know, they are closely split on this. Like most of the involved inions have approved the deal. But the largest ones will not. The split by workers is then close to 50/50 with an edge for rejecting the deal.

Assuming this close split is still the case, they should be fairly close to a resolution even if there are important differences. It seems pretty farked up to go for a nuke option on either side when a deal that can be supported by most of the workers can probably be reached.

But threatening a strike is a bit of a game of chicken. To get the best deal, you gotta push it far. Threatening to block the strike is also a hard negotiation tool.


Threatening to block a strike is f*cking monstrous and it goes against everything the Democrats say they stand for.
 
2022-11-30 2:47:19 PM  

austerity101: [Fark user image 425x353]

It's pretty damning that Marco f*cking Rubio is making public statements more supportive of unions than actual Democrats.


he's looking to hang the consequences of the strike around the Whitehouse like an albatross.  little marco has no love for labor.  he is playing a game and looking to blame the dems because warren buffet won't give rail workers paid leave and risk  share prices.
 
2022-11-30 2:47:27 PM  

Mrtraveler01: So all of this is being held up by a minority of the railroad unions?


Everyone loves a free market until labor wants something.
 
2022-11-30 2:47:51 PM  

severedtoe: this is one of those crappy Sophie's choice moments.

option one:  Side with labor and risk a painful economic impact.  Rightwing media consume the airwaves on bs stories of how democrats cratered the economy.  giving the GQP the only popular talking point to sway "independents" who don't pay attention.  lose the house senate and presidency the general election in 2024.

option two:  press for the marginally unpopular deal with the unions and avoid possible economic impact.  this robs the right of a "bloody shirt to wave along the campaign trail.  meanwhile box the GQP into owning any problems they cause by farking with the debt ceiling and SS.  Build a strong campaign platform over the next 2 years, while focusing to pass more labor friendly laws with larger majorities in congress and a democratic president after 2024.


People don't exist to serve the economy. The economy exists to serve the people.

The nations that handled the pandemic best were those that prioritized ordinary people's needs over those of the wealthiest.
 
2022-11-30 2:48:15 PM  

austerity101: [Fark user image image 425x353]

It's pretty damning that Marco f*cking Rubio is making public statements more supportive of unions than actual Democrats.


In fairness, I should also be clear that his "union leaders" comment is an idiotic lie.
 
2022-11-30 2:48:23 PM  

austerity101: [Fark user image image 425x353]

It's pretty damning that Marco f*cking Rubio is making public statements more supportive of unions than actual Democrats.


He just wants them to strike so Biden gets all the blowback for it.

Rubio doesn't give a single shiat about the workers.
 
2022-11-30 2:48:46 PM  
You want product shortages just as people go Christmas shopping?  Not preventing, or at least postponing, this strike is how you get product shortages just as people go Christmas shopping.  Oh, and if you think inflation is bad now...wait until everybody fights over the few available trucks to ship goods.  And shutting down Amtrak and commuter rail services throughout the country ain't great either.

This is one of those decisions where every choice sucks.  Biden was going to look very bad no matter which side he picked here.

I think the right choice here is to split the difference with a 30 day postponement beyond the Dec 9 deadline.  Enough time to at least get past Christmas, and plenty of time to negotiate again with management.

I don't see anybody suggesting this, though.
 
2022-11-30 2:49:10 PM  

severedtoe: austerity101: [Fark user image 425x353]

It's pretty damning that Marco f*cking Rubio is making public statements more supportive of unions than actual Democrats.

he's looking to hang the consequences of the strike around the Whitehouse like an albatross.  little marco has no love for labor.  he is playing a game and looking to blame the dems because warren buffet won't give rail workers paid leave and risk  share prices.


Yes, we're all aware of this. Hence why I said "making public statements."

If I were the Republicans, I'd hang this around Democrats' necks, too. This is entirely on them. They are choosing to do this.
 
2022-11-30 2:49:34 PM  
The election's over, suckers...
 
2022-11-30 2:49:37 PM  
I was told on the Dems mouthpiece (MSNBC) this morning that Biden and the Dems had to break to unions first and then they plan to come back and give workers 7 days of sick leave in the next bill .
Sounds legit
 
2022-11-30 2:49:57 PM  

whidbey: Four of the 12 railroad unions representing a majority of the railroad workforce have rejected a tentative new union contract agreement which fails to address their concerns. If any of the 12 unions go on strike, each union has agreed to honor the picket line.

That may be, but why aren't all 12 unions in agreement?

Why is Biden getting the brunt of the blame?


Yeah guys why is the person in charge and asking for a bill to force laborers to work under a shiatty contract catching all the flack here?
 
2022-11-30 2:50:00 PM  
this is why they are terrified of a general strike. it would WORK. and fast, too.

if our entire country hinges on railroad workers doing their jobs, maybe they should be paid and treated accordingly
 
2022-11-30 2:50:36 PM  
Not a big surprise. Democrats abandoned organized labor as one of their core values a long time ago, then got surprised when labor unions started voting Republican.
 
2022-11-30 2:51:00 PM  

Hinged: The election's over, suckers...


And you lost.
 
2022-11-30 2:51:14 PM  

austerity101: [Fark user image 425x423]

I'm so f*cking angry about this. Do the Democrats not see how insanely horrible this looks for them? You might as well just go to every union and say, "Vote for Republicans."

You know how much paid sick leave the railroads were offering? Three f*cking days a year. And they had to be approved 30 days in advance. Would you accept that at your job?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-11-30 2:51:24 PM  

Geotpf: You want product shortages just as people go Christmas shopping?  Not preventing, or at least postponing, this strike is how you get product shortages just as people go Christmas shopping.  Oh, and if you think inflation is bad now...wait until everybody fights over the few available trucks to ship goods.  And shutting down Amtrak and commuter rail services throughout the country ain't great either.

This is one of those decisions where every choice sucks.  Biden was going to look very bad no matter which side he picked here.


Isn't just giving them 7 sick days the easy choice?
 
2022-11-30 2:51:34 PM  

Mrtraveler01: austerity101: [Fark user image image 425x353]

It's pretty damning that Marco f*cking Rubio is making public statements more supportive of unions than actual Democrats.

He just wants them to strike so Biden gets all the blowback for it.

Rubio doesn't give a single shiat about the workers.


Again. I'm aware.

Which, again, is why I said "making publicc statements."

It still looks f*cking damning. And that was my point.

We are all aware that Rubio is a lying piece of sh*t. Including me. That wasn't my point. My point is that Republicans shouldn't be given a position to make public statements supporting unions while Democrats threaten to block a strike and force them to take am inhumane contract.
 
2022-11-30 2:51:38 PM  
I mean the airline CEOs got the CDC to change their recommendations on COVID and everyone just went with it.

Why are we surprised here?
 
2022-11-30 2:51:53 PM  

Geotpf: You want product shortages just as people go Christmas shopping?


Oh My God! I can't get the valueless tchotchkes that will end up in the trash in 2 months to show my love for my family!

The rail workers must suffer so that I can get this bricabrac for my family.
 
2022-11-30 2:52:08 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: severedtoe: Rightwing media consume the airwaves on bs stories of how democrats cratered the economy.

They're going to do this anyway, always and forever. Just do the right thing.


Yup. Republicans are always going to lie, claim that the Dems are always bad and double down on being hypocritical assholes about their own criminal actions.

Just ignore them and do the right thing for everyone.
 
2022-11-30 2:52:32 PM  

TheEdibleSnuggie: - The engineers and crews will need paychecks eventually.  No work, no pay. At some point those needing the money will break rank and work.  Or they'll just hire scabs.


Then I would hope the trains would be sabotaged and what they're transporting would be stolen and sold to support the strikers.

Americans cannot afford any more labor losses.  Support the strike, contribute to the strike fund, and make your displeasure known to everyone involved in this.  If the rail is so strategic we need to force people to work for them under undesirable conditions, maybe we can just put taxes toward what the train engineers want instead of killing people in foreign countries.
 
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