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(CBS Sports)   The *real* winners of the US Men's National Team defeating Iran yesterday: The US Women's National Team   (cbssports.com) divider line
    More: Cool, FIFA World Cup, FIFA Women's World Cup, United States women's national soccer team, World Cup group stage, United States men's national soccer team, U.S. men's national team, World Cups, FIFA  
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617 clicks; posted to Sports » on 30 Nov 2022 at 4:48 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-11-30 3:41:18 PM  
So the women are dependent on men for their income?
 
2022-11-30 4:22:51 PM  
I love football.  World Cup, I'm all about.  Already hoping to catch a match in USA next cycle.  Thing is, the cool thing about the Women's game, is, it is slower, but as they play on the same regulation pitch, same rules, same goal dimensions, same farking everything, you can see plays develop.  it's more cerebral.

Plus, the women don't flop as much. They farking get after it.

/in before the Futurama "no dunks, but good fundamentals" post
 
2022-11-30 5:00:19 PM  

bighairyguy: So the women are dependent on men for their income?


When they made more money from the men making the knockout rounds than the women did from winning the World Cup in 2015 and 2019 combined, yeah. Ultimately, that's not on US Soccer; that's on the money laundering organization that is FIFA
 
2022-11-30 5:01:07 PM  
Typical. Men put in the effort and the women get the paycheck.

/s
 
2022-11-30 5:20:13 PM  

rickythepenguin: I love football.  World Cup, I'm all about.  Already hoping to catch a match in USA next cycle.  Thing is, the cool thing about the Women's game, is, it is slower, but as they play on the same regulation pitch, same rules, same goal dimensions, same farking everything, you can see plays develop.  it's more cerebral.

Plus, the women don't flop as much. They farking get after it.

/in before the Futurama "no dunks, but good fundamentals" post


In my opinion soccer most definitely doesn't need to be any slower. But your latter point is enough to override that concern.
 
2022-11-30 5:23:15 PM  

desertgeek: bighairyguy: So the women are dependent on men for their income?

When they made more money from the men making the knockout rounds than the women did from winning the World Cup in 2015 and 2019 combined, yeah. Ultimately, that's not on US Soccer; that's on the money laundering organization that is FIFA


Agreed. Good on the US program for trying to make some corrections
 
2022-11-30 5:24:45 PM  
The real winners are the few thousand poors that died building stuff for Qatar's FIFA hosting. HEROES, THE LOT!

/i'd say we should pay the families of the dead but everyone knows that a measly plaque is worth so much more
//employees love recognition more than anything!
 
2022-11-30 5:26:10 PM  

bighairyguy: So the women are dependent on men for their income?


Yes, and I'm not sure how it's their fault. They performed literally as well as they could in the 2015 and 2019 World Cups, and they still earned less money between those two trophy wins combined than the men would have earned if they had merely exited at the group stage in this World Cup.
 
2022-11-30 5:29:27 PM  

Serious Black: bighairyguy: So the women are dependent on men for their income?

Yes, and I'm not sure how it's their fault. They performed literally as well as they could in the 2015 and 2019 World Cups, and they still earned less money between those two trophy wins combined than the men would have earned if they had merely exited at the group stage in this World Cup.


It's not their fault. It's the fans fault for watching the wrong thing. If they would watch the women's world cup more it wouldn't be a problem.
 
2022-11-30 5:32:42 PM  

Howling Fantods: Serious Black: bighairyguy: So the women are dependent on men for their income?

Yes, and I'm not sure how it's their fault. They performed literally as well as they could in the 2015 and 2019 World Cups, and they still earned less money between those two trophy wins combined than the men would have earned if they had merely exited at the group stage in this World Cup.

It's not their fault. It's the fans fault for watching the wrong thing. If they would watch the women's world cup more it wouldn't be a problem.


https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/womens/womensworldcup/france2019/news/fifa-women-s-world-cup-2019tm-watched-by-more-than-1-billion

Just how big of an audience do the women need to make money?
 
2022-11-30 5:41:17 PM  

Serious Black: Howling Fantods: Serious Black: bighairyguy: So the women are dependent on men for their income?

Yes, and I'm not sure how it's their fault. They performed literally as well as they could in the 2015 and 2019 World Cups, and they still earned less money between those two trophy wins combined than the men would have earned if they had merely exited at the group stage in this World Cup.

It's not their fault. It's the fans fault for watching the wrong thing. If they would watch the women's world cup more it wouldn't be a problem.

https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/womens/womensworldcup/france2019/news/fifa-women-s-world-cup-2019tm-watched-by-more-than-1-billion

Just how big of an audience do the women need to make money?


Yes, now post the men's numbers.
 
2022-11-30 5:43:25 PM  

Serious Black: Howling Fantods: Serious Black: bighairyguy: So the women are dependent on men for their income?

Yes, and I'm not sure how it's their fault. They performed literally as well as they could in the 2015 and 2019 World Cups, and they still earned less money between those two trophy wins combined than the men would have earned if they had merely exited at the group stage in this World Cup.

It's not their fault. It's the fans fault for watching the wrong thing. If they would watch the women's world cup more it wouldn't be a problem.

https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/womens/womensworldcup/france2019/news/fifa-women-s-world-cup-2019tm-watched-by-more-than-1-billion

Just how big of an audience do the women need to make money?


3.5 billion

https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/mens/worldcup/2018russia/media-releases/more-than-half-the-world-watched-record-breaking-2018-world-cup
 
2022-11-30 5:46:47 PM  

12349876: Serious Black: Howling Fantods: Serious Black: bighairyguy: So the women are dependent on men for their income?

Yes, and I'm not sure how it's their fault. They performed literally as well as they could in the 2015 and 2019 World Cups, and they still earned less money between those two trophy wins combined than the men would have earned if they had merely exited at the group stage in this World Cup.

It's not their fault. It's the fans fault for watching the wrong thing. If they would watch the women's world cup more it wouldn't be a problem.

https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/womens/womensworldcup/france2019/news/fifa-women-s-world-cup-2019tm-watched-by-more-than-1-billion

Just how big of an audience do the women need to make money?

3.5 billion

https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/mens/worldcup/2018russia/media-releases/more-than-half-the-world-watched-record-breaking-2018-world-cup


So pay the champions proportionally. Problem solved
 
2022-11-30 5:47:53 PM  
500 million vs 80 million for the final game (6 to 1) vs payouts of 400 mil vs 40 mil (10 to 1)

So yah, the payouts should definitely increase but even at the $70 mil payout level that the viewership clearly should justify that would only give the womens team about 9 million.... which would still mean it would be a smaller payout then the mens.

Granted, that means convincing alot of media outlets and by extension advertisers that Womens soccer is worth investing in at a level that the numbers justify, which they haven't been able to do so far.

FIFA president Gianni Infantino has bashed some media rights offers for the 2023 World Cup that he says were "100 times less" than proposals for the 2022 World Cup in some instances, according to Deutsche Welle
 
2022-11-30 5:53:50 PM  

bighairyguy: So the women are dependent on men for their income?


I know your are joking, but if husband and wife work same jobs, wife performs much better, but husband's salary is 10x higher, yes, she still is dependent on husband's income I guess.
 
2022-11-30 5:56:56 PM  
Women should do what Blatter suggested some years ago: Be prettier on the pitch and wear tighter and smaller shorts.  /s
 
2022-11-30 6:00:53 PM  

Jairzinho: bighairyguy: So the women are dependent on men for their income?

I know your are joking, but if husband and wife work same jobs, wife performs much better, but husband's salary is 10x higher, yes, she still is dependent on husband's income I guess.


Technically soccer/sports etc would fall under the category of entertainment, in which the yard stick for pay would be "how much money can we generate off of how entertaining you are" not "did you win a trophy"

Kinda like the greatest drummer in the world wont make as much as Miley Cyrus, they are both in music but a whole lot more people care about Miley.
 
2022-11-30 6:02:25 PM  
And by the way, a woman will be a referee tomorrow for GER vs CRC match. A first in men's WC.
I wonder how the pay copare with ter male counterparts.

I hope she doesn't take any BS from the players and, if deserved, redcard any idiot there.

She's been a referee in men's matches in Europe before, so it's no completely new thing to her.
 
2022-11-30 6:02:26 PM  

Howling Fantods: Serious Black: Howling Fantods: Serious Black: bighairyguy: So the women are dependent on men for their income?

Yes, and I'm not sure how it's their fault. They performed literally as well as they could in the 2015 and 2019 World Cups, and they still earned less money between those two trophy wins combined than the men would have earned if they had merely exited at the group stage in this World Cup.

It's not their fault. It's the fans fault for watching the wrong thing. If they would watch the women's world cup more it wouldn't be a problem.

https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/womens/womensworldcup/france2019/news/fifa-women-s-world-cup-2019tm-watched-by-more-than-1-billion

Just how big of an audience do the women need to make money?

Yes, now post the men's numbers.


I'm aware that the men had way more viewers in 2018 than the women did in 2019. I'm not sure how that's relevant to my question of whether the women's viewership numbers are large enough to fund a proportionally large prize pool. The men only had 3-4 times as many viewers as the women, yet they have a winner's prize about 10 times as large as the women's ($35 million in 2014 to $2 million in 2015, $38 million in 2018 to $4 million in 2019). Are the people watching the women's game all dirt forking poor or something? Do they not drink beer? Do they avoid eating at McD's? Do they not buy cars?
 
2022-11-30 6:03:14 PM  

Jairzinho: bighairyguy: So the women are dependent on men for their income?

I know your are joking, but if husband and wife work same jobs, wife performs much better, but husband's salary is 10x higher, yes, she still is dependent on husband's income I guess.


JFC

We are talking about entertainers. there is a huge difference in the entertainment level. This isnt hiring a CPA or CEO or whatever.

Should Beyonce' or Swifty have to share their money with lesser male acts because they are less popular ? No of course not. So the idea that male and female athletes are the same needs to die. If the women can go out and beat the men you might have a point. But they cannot. the product on the filed is not the same. It might be the same rules but its nowhere near the same product.
 
2022-11-30 6:04:49 PM  
it will have the opportunity to earn more by continuing to advance.

The ladies best wait until Sunday before deciding to plunk down on a new G-Wagon.
 
2022-11-30 6:04:55 PM  

Jairzinho: bighairyguy: So the women are dependent on men for their income?

I know your are joking, but if husband and wife work same jobs, wife performs much better, but husband's salary is 10x higher, yes, she still is dependent on husband's income I guess.


Yes, a joking jab at the situation.  I prefer to watch the US women's team.  World soccer is sexist, racist and corrupt.  This is a small victory, but it will a long time for all the victories that are still needed.
 
2022-11-30 6:11:49 PM  
There isn't some farking grand conspiracy to keep women's sports down. There's just a much smaller market. I know far fewer hardcore female sports fans then men and of those women the vast majority are football (ncaa,nfl or soccer),NASCAR and NBA fans. Quite a few seem ok with hockey. They could care less about women's team sports, just like most guys.   But women's football will catch up eventually, they are posting proper big attendances in Europe. In the States? The WNBA is a dumpster fire, and if your business model revolves around dads taking their daughters you're farked. And I assume whatever the women's pro soccer league is (assuming there is one, are we between leagues?) they are going to lose every marketable player to England and Spain.
 
2022-11-30 6:22:11 PM  

Serious Black: Howling Fantods: Serious Black: Howling Fantods: Serious Black: bighairyguy: So the women are dependent on men for their income?

Yes, and I'm not sure how it's their fault. They performed literally as well as they could in the 2015 and 2019 World Cups, and they still earned less money between those two trophy wins combined than the men would have earned if they had merely exited at the group stage in this World Cup.

It's not their fault. It's the fans fault for watching the wrong thing. If they would watch the women's world cup more it wouldn't be a problem.

https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/womens/womensworldcup/france2019/news/fifa-women-s-world-cup-2019tm-watched-by-more-than-1-billion

Just how big of an audience do the women need to make money?

Yes, now post the men's numbers.

I'm aware that the men had way more viewers in 2018 than the women did in 2019. I'm not sure how that's relevant to my question of whether the women's viewership numbers are large enough to fund a proportionally large prize pool. The men only had 3-4 times as many viewers as the women, yet they have a winner's prize about 10 times as large as the women's ($35 million in 2014 to $2 million in 2015, $38 million in 2018 to $4 million in 2019). Are the people watching the women's game all dirt forking poor or something? Do they not drink beer? Do they avoid eating at McD's? Do they not buy cars?


It has nothing to do with viewers.  Viewers don't pay a dime.  Who was the TV partner for the women's world cup?  FS1?  Where is the men's shown?  How much did France pay to host the wowen's cup compared to Qatar?

There were 57,900 people at the women's final.  There was 68,000 just at US-England.  Brazil-Serbia had 88,100.

They are getting paid equally, they just don't make as much.
 
2022-11-30 6:25:48 PM  
i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2022-12-01 12:17:04 AM  
Well I believe one problem is that the rights are sold together for all men, women and youth cups, meaning it's a bit difficult to determine how much the women's actually brings in.

But with some solid ratings themselves, should really be a 100mm people if 400 for the men.
 
2022-12-01 6:17:57 AM  
I am not trying to take away anything from the women soccer team. Around the rest of the world the women's soccer trophy is considered a consultation prize.  We may watch it more in the us but it is called world cup for a reason.
 
2022-12-01 11:24:55 AM  

Jairzinho: And by the way, a woman will be a referee tomorrow for GER vs CRC match. A first in men's WC.
I wonder how the pay copare with ter male counterparts.

I hope she doesn't take any BS from the players and, if deserved, redcard any idiot there.

She's been a referee in men's matches in Europe before, so it's no completely new thing to her.


Stéphanie Frappart is legitimately a top ref in the game, regardless of gender. She's not going to be fazed by the moment.
 
2022-12-01 4:41:12 PM  

kindms: Jairzinho: bighairyguy: So the women are dependent on men for their income?

I know your are joking, but if husband and wife work same jobs, wife performs much better, but husband's salary is 10x higher, yes, she still is dependent on husband's income I guess.

JFC

We are talking about entertainers. there is a huge difference in the entertainment level. This isnt hiring a CPA or CEO or whatever.

Should Beyonce' or Swifty have to share their money with lesser male acts because they are less popular ? No of course not. So the idea that male and female athletes are the same needs to die. If the women can go out and beat the men you might have a point. But they cannot. the product on the filed is not the same. It might be the same rules but its nowhere near the same product.


More importantly here, the two products are not as popular (globally), and the income raised is not even in the same building.

I mean, kudos to the WNT for getting that deal, but, the USMNT was getting more money because the WC brings in billions in revenues that get split up to the national teams, and the WWC gets like $300m... they were each getting their share of their teams main event money.  Thats not the womens fault, but, it is also just a fact of an entertainment business.

WNBA player here has a more resonible expectation:
https://people.com/sports/kelsey-plum-explains-huge-misconception-wnba-pay-discrepancies/
Agree with these points... especially since the WNBA Is a "wing" of the NBA really, the WNBA players should be able to expect to get the same % of profits on jersey sales, share of TV revenues, etc., as the NBA.  Yes, all of those things will be much smaller, but, that is where the unfairness is, not that NBA players rightly get a proper % of the billions the NBA brings in.

To the examples above, based on what US Soccer did, it would be like the NBA pooling together the NBA & WNBA TV rights, and splitting up salary caps for teams in each league evenly across the two leagues based on the total TV rights of NBA+WNBA, which would make absolutely no sense... why not pool together the revenues of the MLB rights and the minor league baseball rights, and evenly split the money, so an A level team has the same salary cap as an MLB team... would be the same thing.
 
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