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(Jalopnik)   Old and busted: Republicans denying climate change. New hotness: EV drivers who think they are saving the planet, are making it worse   (jalopnik.com) divider line
    More: Ironic, Indonesia, Chinese-backed nickel refinery, joint venture, Maluku Islands, largest nickel reservers, little regard, Chinese-backed joint ventures, Oxygen  
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1930 clicks; posted to Business » and STEM » on 29 Nov 2022 at 11:25 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-11-29 10:08:10 PM  
Oh for fark sake.

The technology is in its infancy.  Judging it by standards that are bound to be rapidly changing is just dumb.
 
2022-11-29 10:14:48 PM  
Well, I should have read the article.  But, subby, blaming EV drivers for the corporate and state-sponsored greed that is doing the damage is beyond unfair.  "Oh, they could just not buy EVs.  That'll show those kleptocrats.."

I guess we can go back to coal-powered cars, since burning coal never did any ecological harm.
 
2022-11-29 11:27:53 PM  
A Chinese run nickel mine in someone else's country?

...shudder...
 
2022-11-29 11:32:39 PM  
Dumbass Americans and other rich dicks building huge expensive tanks and giving them EV engines are absolutely NOT good for the environment. The materials for the vehicles come from somewhere. The materials for the batteries are massively more than a smaller lighter vehicle. The electric drain to charge those massive batteries comes from somewhere.
Smaller lighter EV's are a good goal. Giant heavy high power EV's for rich people to drive like arseholes are not.
 
2022-11-29 11:42:34 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

/obvious
 
2022-11-29 11:43:42 PM  
At some point we will have poisoned client states to such a degree that their choice is immigrate or die.

It's almost as if that all nations exist on the same planet.

This has been a theme in sci-fi pretty much as long as the genre has existed.
 
2022-11-29 11:47:48 PM  
Pretty crazy, it appears Indonesia's government sold its people out to a predator nation. Likely to enrichen individuals at the cost of the public's future/

It's not so much EV's that are the problem, as all resources basically have this same problem, it's rich people exploiting poor people.

On a positive note, China is well on its way to a civil war/revolution. So hopefully its people soon put the People in People's Republic.
 
2022-11-30 12:04:38 AM  

knobmaker: Well, I should have read the article.  But, subby, blaming EV drivers for the corporate and state-sponsored greed that is doing the damage is beyond unfair.  "Oh, they could just not buy EVs.  That'll show those kleptocrats.."

I guess we can go back to coal-powered cars, since burning coal never did any ecological harm.


We could go back to horse and buggy transportation, that won't upset anyone.
 
2022-11-30 12:08:30 AM  

knobmaker: Well, I should have read the article.  But, subby, blaming EV drivers for the corporate and state-sponsored greed that is doing the damage is beyond unfair.  "Oh, they could just not buy EVs.  That'll show those kleptocrats.."

I guess we can go back to coal-powered cars, since burning coal never did any ecological harm.


Technically if you buy an EV in WV that's exactly what you're doing
 
2022-11-30 12:08:32 AM  

dyhchong: Pretty crazy, it appears Indonesia's government sold its people out to a predator nation. Likely to enrichen individuals at the cost of the public's future/

It's not so much EV's that are the problem, as all resources basically have this same problem, it's rich people exploiting poor people.

On a positive note, China is well on its way to a civil war/revolution. So hopefully its people soon put the People in People's Republic.


I was shocked because I thought they had mastered the exact amount of pretend freedom to give to keep the minions tame forever
 
2022-11-30 12:08:54 AM  

cefm: Dumbass Americans and other rich dicks building huge expensive tanks and giving them EV engines are absolutely NOT good for the environment. The materials for the vehicles come from somewhere. The materials for the batteries are massively more than a smaller lighter vehicle. The electric drain to charge those massive batteries comes from somewhere.
Smaller lighter EV's are a good goal. Giant heavy high power EV's for rich people to drive like arseholes are not.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-11-30 12:23:10 AM  

scanman61: A Chinese run nickel mine in someone else's country?


It's more likely than you think.
Free PC Check
 
2022-11-30 12:32:48 AM  
Weird how you never see *complete* cost-benefit analysis comparison of ICE/EV *entire cycles* -- from mining product resources to product usage to eventual product recycling/disposal -- when ICEstans want to try to convince you that EVs are naughty and that ICEs are magical gifts from babby jeebus's own peepeehole.

/ah, jalopnik. so many investigative reporting teams with many awards.
 
2022-11-30 12:48:29 AM  
BSABSRC

(Both Sides are Bad so Roll Coal)
 
2022-11-30 12:48:49 AM  
rare earth scarcity is going to bottleneck the adoption of EVs.
 
2022-11-30 12:52:08 AM  
Meanwhile the Nigerian oil industry has a spotless environmental record
 
2022-11-30 1:04:05 AM  
I went to charge my EV, and walk around a neighborhood, and had the car pulling out next to me pull back in.

I dreaded momentarily to myself, "Oh no," but proceeded to get out and deal with what appeared to yet another chucklefark Boomer with something on his mind. He proceeded to harangue me about how lithium could be coming from some salmon reservoir in North Alaska, and when I said, "Well, I don't necessarily think we should mine there, but we're going to have to make hard choices about what resources are more valuable when determining when and where to mine for resources." It didn't occur to me at the time to point out a battery is a cathode and an anode, and can be made out of any number of substances, his lithium fears notwithstanding.

When that didn't satisfy him, he kept insisting that ICE vehicles were going to improve in efficiency from being 5x times worse on mileage, and when I told him that was thermodynamically impossible because electricity is applied directly to the wheels rather than combusting fuel, turning pistons, etc. to which he said something to the effect of, "Well, I don't believe in limits."

Finally he had me guess which President signed some wildlife bill, no surprise, it was a Trump law, as though that single thing undid all of the efforts he had put into moribund coal and fossil fuel production, and shirking the Paris Agreement for nothing in return.

The whole time the engine is running on his ICE vehicle, as he is going to putter off to his comfortable home on the wealthier side of town, and I am thinking to myself, "Man, I don't go out of my way to elucidate you on politics at the gas pump."
 
2022-11-30 1:08:21 AM  

Gestalt: I went to charge my EV, and walk around a neighborhood, and had the car pulling out next to me pull back in.

I dreaded momentarily to myself, "Oh no," but proceeded to get out and deal with what appeared to yet another chucklefark Boomer with something on his mind. He proceeded to harangue me about how lithium could be coming from some salmon reservoir in North Alaska, and when I said, "Well, I don't necessarily think we should mine there, but we're going to have to make hard choices about what resources are more valuable when determining when and where to mine for resources." It didn't occur to me at the time to point out a battery is a cathode and an anode, and can be made out of any number of substances, his lithium fears notwithstanding.

When that didn't satisfy him, he kept insisting that ICE vehicles were going to improve in efficiency from being 5x times worse on mileage, and when I told him that was thermodynamically impossible because electricity is applied directly to the wheels rather than combusting fuel, turning pistons, etc. to which he said something to the effect of, "Well, I don't believe in limits."

Finally he had me guess which President signed some wildlife bill, no surprise, it was a Trump law, as though that single thing undid all of the efforts he had put into moribund coal and fossil fuel production, and shirking the Paris Agreement for nothing in return.

The whole time the engine is running on his ICE vehicle, as he is going to putter off to his comfortable home on the wealthier side of town, and I am thinking to myself, "Man, I don't go out of my way to elucidate you on politics at the gas pump."


Does this shiat happen to you often? What an unbearably tedious aspect of a day.
 
2022-11-30 1:13:42 AM  
Horrid mines and the massive ecological damage they can do notwithstanding, I watched a lecture about a month ago about the ecological impact of various types of vehicle.  Gas beat out pure electric up to I think ~200K miles, but hybrids consistently beat both on the weight of the average hybrids battery being sufficiently smaller not to put the vehicle straight in the hole ecologically and still being able to eat the pollution of all short jaunt driving.

Assuming I can find one that isn't a complete wreck of a thing the UW extension sold me on the idea pretty well.
 
2022-11-30 1:14:41 AM  

BlazeTrailer: Gestalt: I went to charge my EV, and walk around a neighborhood, and had the car pulling out next to me pull back in.

I dreaded momentarily to myself, "Oh no," but proceeded to get out and deal with what appeared to yet another chucklefark Boomer with something on his mind. He proceeded to harangue me about how lithium could be coming from some salmon reservoir in North Alaska, and when I said, "Well, I don't necessarily think we should mine there, but we're going to have to make hard choices about what resources are more valuable when determining when and where to mine for resources." It didn't occur to me at the time to point out a battery is a cathode and an anode, and can be made out of any number of substances, his lithium fears notwithstanding.

When that didn't satisfy him, he kept insisting that ICE vehicles were going to improve in efficiency from being 5x times worse on mileage, and when I told him that was thermodynamically impossible because electricity is applied directly to the wheels rather than combusting fuel, turning pistons, etc. to which he said something to the effect of, "Well, I don't believe in limits."

Finally he had me guess which President signed some wildlife bill, no surprise, it was a Trump law, as though that single thing undid all of the efforts he had put into moribund coal and fossil fuel production, and shirking the Paris Agreement for nothing in return.

The whole time the engine is running on his ICE vehicle, as he is going to putter off to his comfortable home on the wealthier side of town, and I am thinking to myself, "Man, I don't go out of my way to elucidate you on politics at the gas pump."

Does this shiat happen to you often? What an unbearably tedious aspect of a day.


It happens maybe once every few months, usually it's just some older person curious to know about EV's. I try to be honest and give them the pros and cons of my experience (particular the dropoff in mileage in winter, realistic charging times on different setups).

This was the first guy that I've dealt with who seemed to really have a chip on his shoulder, he claimed he was trying to understand for him and his wife, but I mentioned the line "bad faith" to him at one point because he wasn't letting me finish what I was saying few times.
 
2022-11-30 1:17:18 AM  

Gestalt: BlazeTrailer: Gestalt: I went to charge my EV, and walk around a neighborhood, and had the car pulling out next to me pull back in.

I dreaded momentarily to myself, "Oh no," but proceeded to get out and deal with what appeared to yet another chucklefark Boomer with something on his mind. He proceeded to harangue me about how lithium could be coming from some salmon reservoir in North Alaska, and when I said, "Well, I don't necessarily think we should mine there, but we're going to have to make hard choices about what resources are more valuable when determining when and where to mine for resources." It didn't occur to me at the time to point out a battery is a cathode and an anode, and can be made out of any number of substances, his lithium fears notwithstanding.

When that didn't satisfy him, he kept insisting that ICE vehicles were going to improve in efficiency from being 5x times worse on mileage, and when I told him that was thermodynamically impossible because electricity is applied directly to the wheels rather than combusting fuel, turning pistons, etc. to which he said something to the effect of, "Well, I don't believe in limits."

Finally he had me guess which President signed some wildlife bill, no surprise, it was a Trump law, as though that single thing undid all of the efforts he had put into moribund coal and fossil fuel production, and shirking the Paris Agreement for nothing in return.

The whole time the engine is running on his ICE vehicle, as he is going to putter off to his comfortable home on the wealthier side of town, and I am thinking to myself, "Man, I don't go out of my way to elucidate you on politics at the gas pump."

Does this shiat happen to you often? What an unbearably tedious aspect of a day.

It happens maybe once every few months, usually it's just some older person curious to know about EV's. I try to be honest and give them the pros and cons of my experience (particular the dropoff in mileage in winter, realistic charging times on different setups).

This was the first guy that I've dealt with who seemed to really have a chip on his shoulder, he claimed he was trying to understand for him and his wife, but I mentioned the line "bad faith" to him at one point because he wasn't letting me finish what I was saying few times.


Okay, the 1st isn't so bad. I would have a hard time not saying to the 2nd: "sounds like you have concerns; perhaps you shouldn't buy my car"
 
2022-11-30 1:20:44 AM  
"We're Big Oil and we approve of this message."
 
2022-11-30 1:26:32 AM  

BlazeTrailer: Okay, the 1st isn't so bad. I would have a hard time not saying to the 2nd: "sounds like you have concerns; perhaps you shouldn't buy my car"


At one point, I suggested maybe he consider a hybrid instead, rather than a full EV, but I doubt he heard it since I was having trouble getting a word in edge-wise.
 
2022-11-30 1:33:32 AM  
I guess I might as well go back to burning wood for cooking and staying warm to save the environment
 
2022-11-30 1:40:50 AM  

knobmaker: Oh for fark sake.

The technology is in its infancy.  Judging it by standards that are bound to be rapidly changing is just dumb.


Yup. The latest batteries use no nickel or cobalt.

And I don't remember anyone saying EVs "make the planet better." They just make it worse much slower than gas cars.
 
2022-11-30 1:42:50 AM  

parrellel: Horrid mines and the massive ecological damage they can do notwithstanding, I watched a lecture about a month ago about the ecological impact of various types of vehicle.  Gas beat out pure electric up to I think ~200K


No.

That information is from a TEDx talk by a "researcher" who completely made up his figures. The gasoline vehicles in his assumptions get 75mpg.
 
2022-11-30 2:04:13 AM  
Corrected article title:  "Allowing mining operators to "self regulate" leads to bad mining practices"
 
2022-11-30 2:16:06 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

good shiat
 
2022-11-30 2:26:11 AM  

Likwit: [Fark user image image 425x482]
good shiat


Become a train spotter if you want the "transport moral high ground"

The whole concept of a rubber wheel is flawed.
 
2022-11-30 2:28:46 AM  

CurmudgeonInDevelopment: Corrected article title:  "Allowing mining operators to "self regulate" leads to bad mining practices"


As somebody who worked (well still does the odd instrument/tool) in the resources sector, you don't know the half of it.

Evil, simply doesn't cover it.

The only benefit I found was that Australian mining rules are better than 99% of the places on earth. And they still suck.
 
2022-11-30 2:30:55 AM  

cefm: Dumbass Americans and other rich dicks building huge expensive tanks and giving them EV engines are absolutely NOT good for the environment. The materials for the vehicles come from somewhere. The materials for the batteries are massively more than a smaller lighter vehicle. The electric drain to charge those massive batteries comes from somewhere.
Smaller lighter EV's are a good goal. Giant heavy high power EV's for rich people to drive like arseholes are not.


*excessive mass is the problem*
 
2022-11-30 2:44:53 AM  
People will reserve vast personal resources for pride and outrage, and leave so little for nuance and curiosity.

My wife and I spent some time talking about it yesterday. She has run across a vein of anti-EV hysteria on one of the sites she uses, apparently. The claims and counterclaims just get volleyed back and forth. They involve policies, choices, behaviors, values, purchasing decisions, favorite brands, media personalities, taxes, etc. A person can be pretty well informed and still be trolled by some "study" saying one thing or another. In the end, a consumer makes a choice, presumably based on hard facts and not speculation or mood. Icons are falling like flies, so if you don't act as an iconoclast, you might be getting played.

I croaked loudly when states started in with their EV mandates because that really marked the point where political leaders decided to abandon personal choice for automobiles. How can that not just fuel controversy? But of course politicians had to do it to justify subsidies and make sure that the companies receiving them would be guaranteed a market. That can be adroit politics in service of good policy.

But it never works that way. "Picking winners" used to be as unpopular a concept as "voodoo economics." Most often, it ends in rent-seeking, regulatory capture, corruption, and  incompetence. Basically it produces a situation where you get rampant and continuous recalls, squandered resources, crashing asset values, products nobody wants, missed targets, protectionism, and broken promises. Soviet clunkiness. The Lada and Yugo. CEOs using drugs, whether Musk's cannabis, Zhu's LSD, or DeLorean's cocaine. People in positions of responsibility being irresponsible.

It is a mess. I am not sure how a "dream EV" scenario does not lead to one or more "nightmare EV" side-effects.

This time it is China and Indonesia. OK. Anyone wonder why China is using other countries' resources before using their own? It would be like Aramco rushing to develop Venezuelan oil while leaving its own in the ground. China is grabbing resources for the next wave of industrialization just as the US and the UK grabbed oil resources after WWII. Oh well. It's fine. Probably no big deal.

Sigh. Jalopnik in a related video cites "some study" saying that battery materials prices will spike to 130 dollars per kWh, so 1000 bucks for a plug in hybrid, or 6000 to 15,000 dollars for a BEV. And then my electricity rates go up 30% in April, for sure. It's fine. Just a lot more nuance.

I don't know how this is all going to turn out. I have a feeling it is going to get weird.
 
2022-11-30 2:45:34 AM  

Boomstickz: cefm: Dumbass Americans and other rich dicks building huge expensive tanks and giving them EV engines are absolutely NOT good for the environment. The materials for the vehicles come from somewhere. The materials for the batteries are massively more than a smaller lighter vehicle. The electric drain to charge those massive batteries comes from somewhere.
Smaller lighter EV's are a good goal. Giant heavy high power EV's for rich people to drive like arseholes are not.

*excessive mass is the problem*


And yet they're still 3x as energy efficient as gas cars of the equivalent type. You're right that public transport is the real answer to the problem, but that seems even less likely at this point than an EV revolution
 
2022-11-30 2:53:00 AM  

Likwit: Boomstickz: cefm: Dumbass Americans and other rich dicks building huge expensive tanks and giving them EV engines are absolutely NOT good for the environment. The materials for the vehicles come from somewhere. The materials for the batteries are massively more than a smaller lighter vehicle. The electric drain to charge those massive batteries comes from somewhere.
Smaller lighter EV's are a good goal. Giant heavy high power EV's for rich people to drive like arseholes are not.

*excessive mass is the problem*

And yet they're still 3x as energy efficient as gas cars of the equivalent type. You're right that public transport is the real answer to the problem, but that seems even less likely at this point than an EV revolution


It depends what usage environment you operate in and a understanding of history to why we've got to where we are: what are most roads made of?

There needs to be a hard mass limitation on EV's.

2000kg curb weight should do the trick.
 
2022-11-30 2:57:21 AM  

Boomstickz: Likwit: Boomstickz: cefm: Dumbass Americans and other rich dicks building huge expensive tanks and giving them EV engines are absolutely NOT good for the environment. The materials for the vehicles come from somewhere. The materials for the batteries are massively more than a smaller lighter vehicle. The electric drain to charge those massive batteries comes from somewhere.
Smaller lighter EV's are a good goal. Giant heavy high power EV's for rich people to drive like arseholes are not.

*excessive mass is the problem*

And yet they're still 3x as energy efficient as gas cars of the equivalent type. You're right that public transport is the real answer to the problem, but that seems even less likely at this point than an EV revolution

It depends what usage environment you operate in and a understanding of history to why we've got to where we are: what are most roads made of?

There needs to be a hard mass limitation on EV's.

2000kg curb weight should do the trick.


That's dumb.
 
2022-11-30 3:05:55 AM  

Likwit: Boomstickz: Likwit: Boomstickz: cefm: Dumbass Americans and other rich dicks building huge expensive tanks and giving them EV engines are absolutely NOT good for the environment. The materials for the vehicles come from somewhere. The materials for the batteries are massively more than a smaller lighter vehicle. The electric drain to charge those massive batteries comes from somewhere.
Smaller lighter EV's are a good goal. Giant heavy high power EV's for rich people to drive like arseholes are not.

*excessive mass is the problem*

And yet they're still 3x as energy efficient as gas cars of the equivalent type. You're right that public transport is the real answer to the problem, but that seems even less likely at this point than an EV revolution

It depends what usage environment you operate in and a understanding of history to why we've got to where we are: what are most roads made of?

There needs to be a hard mass limitation on EV's.

2000kg curb weight should do the trick.

That's dumb.


People in (non america) complained about the 2000cc limitaion on ICE motors.

Look what happened.

Old F1 rules limited boosted motors to 1500cc, and then started getting aggressive with fuel limits.

Look what happened.
 
2022-11-30 3:06:05 AM  
South Park S10 E02 Smug Alert
Youtube AnFAAdOBB1c
 
2022-11-30 3:10:03 AM  

Boomstickz: Likwit: Boomstickz: Likwit: Boomstickz: cefm: Dumbass Americans and other rich dicks building huge expensive tanks and giving them EV engines are absolutely NOT good for the environment. The materials for the vehicles come from somewhere. The materials for the batteries are massively more than a smaller lighter vehicle. The electric drain to charge those massive batteries comes from somewhere.
Smaller lighter EV's are a good goal. Giant heavy high power EV's for rich people to drive like arseholes are not.

*excessive mass is the problem*

And yet they're still 3x as energy efficient as gas cars of the equivalent type. You're right that public transport is the real answer to the problem, but that seems even less likely at this point than an EV revolution

It depends what usage environment you operate in and a understanding of history to why we've got to where we are: what are most roads made of?

There needs to be a hard mass limitation on EV's.

2000kg curb weight should do the trick.

That's dumb.

People in (non america) complained about the 2000cc limitaion on ICE motors.

Look what happened.

Old F1 rules limited boosted motors to 1500cc, and then started getting aggressive with fuel limits.

Look what happened.


I have no idea what happened. What happened?

But why not a weight limit for gas cars? Or a displacement limit? Or better yet drastically higher mpg requirements? Why target the type of car with the lowest lifetime emissions first?
 
2022-11-30 3:44:54 AM  

Boomstickz: People in (non america) complained about the 2000cc limitaion on ICE motors.

Look what happened.


Manufacturers started equipping their European models with tiny engines that do okay in city traffic and on the test stand, but are fighting for their life once you take them out on the highway or into the mountains or take more than one person?

My second gen Tourneo Connect came with a 1.6 l (in the facelift 1.5 l) diesel engine. It got me over the Alps with four people inside - barely.
The is the largest engine you can get here.
There was also a 1 l gasoline option. For a 3600 lb car.
The same car in the US has a 2.5 l.
 
2022-11-30 3:50:32 AM  

2fardownthread: Sigh. Jalopnik in a related video cites "some study" saying that battery materials prices will spike to 130 dollars per kWh, so 1000 bucks for a plug in hybrid, or 6000 to 15,000 dollars for a BEV. And then my electricity rates go up 30% in April, for sure. It's fine. Just a lot more nuance.


Energy is a major cost of all production. The cost of a pound of aluminum or steel is directly related to the energy costs.  Iron ore at its lowest globally is currently about $6 a ton for the iron bits, the rest is energy to extract that iron from the ore which gets it closer to $100/ton. Other metals take more energy so they cost far more to extract.
 
2022-11-30 4:09:19 AM  
The moment the first person burned a stand of trees to flush out game, we humans started destroying things for our benefit... Since we invented agriculture, this became much more intense. But with industrialization, it became like nothing else.

So yes, EVs, batteries, solar panels, wind turbines: they will have a cost. We should try to minimize that, but of course not everyone is gonna act ethically with money on the line.

That said, if we continue with fossil fuels, there really is no hope for keeping a livable planet for us humans. Even the worst EV is better than a gas or diesel F150 being used as a commuter vehicle. I invite you to look around in traffic and see how much of it is SUVs and trucks and so on. Even in Seattle, where Teslas and Priuses are dime a dozen, they are outnumbered by conventional vehicles of all stripes.

Perhaps it's more fair to say industrialism is destroying the world. I would agree, but when I suggest degrowth and modest living, people go insane. Maybe it's hopeless but I like to imagine that there is still a chance we can learn to live better lives without destroying everything around us. I think EVs are not a single solution, they take up too many resources as well, but they are going to be one solution that we need. I would prefer more rail and walkable places but that isn't going to work everywhere (rural areas in particular).

I have a lot of suggestions but I can't even convince people that gas stoves are a curse.
 
2022-11-30 5:51:04 AM  
This isn't a problem with EVs. This is a problem with poor environmental stewardship exacerbated by a nickel mine.  This has been the story of mining for hundreds of years.
 
2022-11-30 6:20:03 AM  

Rapmaster2000: This isn't a problem with EVs. This is a problem with poor environmental stewardship exacerbated by a nickel mine.  This has been the story of mining for hundreds of years.


Yeah, but what type of vehicle requires mining? An electric vehicle. Gas just comes out of pumps at convenience stores and Costcos. There's no environmental cost associated with that. EVs on the other hand? Woah, daddy.
 
2022-11-30 7:49:51 AM  
So, when it looks like electric vehicles may replace their loud, dirty vroom-vroom machines with manual transmissions 10-20 years from the present, NOW Republicans are suddenly all concerned about the environment? And mining procedures in other countries far away? Huh. Interesting, that.
 
2022-11-30 7:52:36 AM  
So it's less about EVs and more about unchecked capitalism and greed. Obvious tag can't be seen through all the smog.
 
2022-11-30 8:05:59 AM  

Invincible: So it's less about EVs and more about unchecked capitalism and greed. Obvious tag can't be seen through all the smog.


Always has been.

Problem is, now that ICE technology is sort of kind of regulated, EV's open up an entirely new Wild West that's going to take another couple of decades to get under control.
 
2022-11-30 8:18:54 AM  
If I'm allowed to be a monster for a minute, my favorite part about nickel mines polluting Indonesia is how the pollution stays in Indonesia, and I can just not go there. If you're Indonesian and this offends you, pretend I said Mongolia in the preceding sentence or wherever.

On the other hand, carbon emissions will eventually make the whole planet hard to live on, which includes Indonesia since it was also located on Earth the last time I checked.
 
2022-11-30 8:31:28 AM  

Gestalt: I went to charge my EV, and walk around a neighborhood, and had the car pulling out next to me pull back in.

I dreaded momentarily to myself, "Oh no," but proceeded to get out and deal with what appeared to yet another chucklefark Boomer with something on his mind. He proceeded to harangue me about how lithium could be coming from some salmon reservoir in North Alaska, and when I said, "Well, I don't necessarily think we should mine there, but we're going to have to make hard choices about what resources are more valuable when determining when and where to mine for resources." It didn't occur to me at the time to point out a battery is a cathode and an anode, and can be made out of any number of substances, his lithium fears notwithstanding.

When that didn't satisfy him, he kept insisting that ICE vehicles were going to improve in efficiency from being 5x times worse on mileage, and when I told him that was thermodynamically impossible because electricity is applied directly to the wheels rather than combusting fuel, turning pistons, etc. to which he said something to the effect of, "Well, I don't believe in limits."

Finally he had me guess which President signed some wildlife bill, no surprise, it was a Trump law, as though that single thing undid all of the efforts he had put into moribund coal and fossil fuel production, and shirking the Paris Agreement for nothing in return.

The whole time the engine is running on his ICE vehicle, as he is going to putter off to his comfortable home on the wealthier side of town, and I am thinking to myself, "Man, I don't go out of my way to elucidate you on politics at the gas pump."


Cool story, Bro.
 
2022-11-30 9:01:42 AM  
So, the Indonesian government is corrupt.   otherwise, they would pass laws stopping the pollution.  The fact they don't means they want the money more than less pollution, and most of it ends up in the ocean anyway.
 
hej
2022-11-30 9:19:48 AM  
fark off with your cherry picked whataboutism subbhole.  There's no shortage of EV battery chemistries including nickle and cobalt free, and oil drilling isn't exactly environmentaly friendly.
 
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  4. Click here to submit a link.