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(Big Think)   Is dark matter's "nightmare scenario" actually true? And is the nightmare going to work naked or not being able to find its high school math class   (bigthink.com) divider line
    More: Weird, Standard Model, dark matter, Big Bang, Dark matter, General relativity, Neutrino, Universe, Quark  
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1158 clicks; posted to STEM » on 29 Nov 2022 at 12:56 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-11-29 12:08:22 PM  
Oh the stars in the outer areas of the Andromeda galaxy are moving how fast? Why are they not flying off into space?

And a mystery was born.

Dark matter
 
2022-11-29 12:20:42 PM  
Right handed neutrinos give people nightmares with no interaction besides gravity.  You can't explain that.
 
2022-11-29 12:21:00 PM  
I got $20 says some 19 year old community college kid somewhere in like Raleigh, NC in 1996 was hippie flipping and figured all this out. And they couldn't convince their friends to hear them out, didn't write it down, fell asleep and forgot it the next morning.
 
2022-11-29 12:42:06 PM  

DannyBrandt: I got $20 says some 19 year old community college kid somewhere in like Raleigh, NC in 1996 was hippie flipping and figured all this out. And they couldn't convince their friends to hear them out, didn't write it down, fell asleep and forgot it the next morning.


Shiat the bed again
 
2022-11-29 1:20:35 PM  
Confused? You won't be after this episode of "Soap"!
 
2022-11-29 2:07:23 PM  
So I read that and the answer seems to just be, "Maybe, and that would totally suck"?
 
2022-11-29 3:20:48 PM  
Everything I see an explanation of what Dark Matter is someone says something completely different and I'm a layman so I feel I know less than I did at the beginning.
 
2022-11-29 3:37:29 PM  
And of course all of these issues sort of gloss over that matter does not, in fact, cause gravity. Curved space causes gravity. While we have observed that space seems to curve in the presence of mass, there is nothing baked into General Relativity that requires the space ONLY bends in the presence of mass.

Nor does General Relativity even start to explain WHY space seems to bend in the presence of mass.

So before we start throwing out terms like "Dark matter" and "Dark energy" and trying to devise all sorts of predictions about the distant future and distant past, it might be nice to go back and try to answer those basic questions.

(Or, you know, continue to ignore them and just act surprised every time we try to apply physics to explain the Universe on scales which we can't easily replicate under experimental conditions...)
 
2022-11-29 4:08:12 PM  

Evil Twin Skippy: And of course all of these issues sort of gloss over that matter does not, in fact, cause gravity. Curved space causes gravity. While we have observed that space seems to curve in the presence of mass, there is nothing baked into General Relativity that requires the space ONLY bends in the presence of mass.

Nor does General Relativity even start to explain WHY space seems to bend in the presence of mass.

So before we start throwing out terms like "Dark matter" and "Dark energy" and trying to devise all sorts of predictions about the distant future and distant past, it might be nice to go back and try to answer those basic questions.

(Or, you know, continue to ignore them and just act surprised every time we try to apply physics to explain the Universe on scales which we can't easily replicate under experimental conditions...)


That won't help Ethan generate clicks, man.
 
2022-11-29 4:32:02 PM  

Evil Twin Skippy: Curved space causes gravity.


I thought it was the other way around, that gravity curves space-time.
 
2022-11-29 5:10:49 PM  

Nintenfreak: Everything I see an explanation of what Dark Matter is someone says something completely different and I'm a layman so I feel I know less than I did at the beginning.


Dark matter is just matter that interacts with the universe through gravity only.  It doesn't produce light, it doesn't reflect light.  That's it.  That's all we know about it.  Any discussions on what kind of particles may make up dark matter are purely hypothetical conjecture, and can largely be ignored by the science layman until some evidence is uncovered.

And though we haven't actually detected it experimentally, we do know where it is.  Scientists have created maps of where dark matter is located in the universe because of its gravitational interaction with visible matter.

https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/weve-made-a-map-of-dark-matter-but-still-dont-know-what-it-is-and-thats-okay/
 
2022-11-29 5:25:49 PM  
friendly reminder that dark matter and dark energy are physicist copes to avoid the reality that the cosmos is doing something super weird that we haven't modeled yet
 
2022-11-29 5:36:36 PM  

Arkanaut: Evil Twin Skippy: Curved space causes gravity.

I thought it was the other way around, that gravity curves space-time.


it's neither (or both?) "gravity" is the name we give to the space/time distortions caused by mass
 
2022-11-29 5:45:26 PM  

Buttforce: friendly reminder that dark matter and dark energy are physicist copes to avoid the reality that the cosmos is doing something super weird that we haven't modeled yet


It's modeled: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda-CDM_model

... but scientists aren't sure why the model works.
 
2022-11-29 6:15:37 PM  

The Weekend Baker: Nintenfreak: Everything I see an explanation of what Dark Matter is someone says something completely different and I'm a layman so I feel I know less than I did at the beginning.

Dark matter is just matter that interacts with the universe through gravity only.  It doesn't produce light, it doesn't reflect light.  That's it.  That's all we know about it.  Any discussions on what kind of particles may make up dark matter are purely hypothetical conjecture, and can largely be ignored by the science layman until some evidence is uncovered.

And though we haven't actually detected it experimentally, we do know where it is.  Scientists have created maps of where dark matter is located in the universe because of its gravitational interaction with visible matter.

https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/weve-made-a-map-of-dark-matter-but-still-dont-know-what-it-is-and-thats-okay/


Knowing it only interacts with gravity is actually knowing quite a bit.
 
2022-11-29 6:18:16 PM  

Buttforce: friendly reminder that dark matter and dark energy are physicist copes to avoid the reality that the cosmos is doing something super weird that we haven't modeled yet


friendly reminder that you're a dipshiat
 
2022-11-29 6:34:13 PM  

Arkanaut: Evil Twin Skippy: Curved space causes gravity.

I thought it was the other way around, that gravity curves space-time.


The curvature is a mathematical model that describes gravity. In that sense the curvature is gravity, and it is caused by the presence of matter or energy.
 
2022-11-29 6:55:05 PM  
"... And is the nightmare ... or not being able to find its high school math class"

This is really a common nightmare? I have had this. Kinda. Many times. Mine was about college. Mid-term, I realize there is a class I am supposed to be taking. But I can't find out which one. A variation is that I am in a kind of maze of hallways and I can't find the room. Another variation is that I keep going into the wrong classroom and have to leave when the wrong class starts.
 
2022-11-29 8:51:36 PM  
If anyone knows. Could dark matter just be H+ with no electrons around? It would naturally push apart from itself as a cloud, and don't photons need electrons to work? I'm sure there's reasons this has been rejected.
 
2022-11-30 12:03:41 AM  

New Farkin User Name: Buttforce: friendly reminder that dark matter and dark energy are physicist copes to avoid the reality that the cosmos is doing something super weird that we haven't modeled yet

friendly reminder that you're a dipshiat


i'd say i hope you remember me ten or so years down the line, by which time this will have largely tossed in the hypothesis dumpster with other garbage like string theory and aether, and assuming civilization is still standing, but we both know this isn't how human beings assimilate new information

let me just say i'm honored to have you mentally bury me as part of your own personal endless series of emotionally-driven memory revisions that allow you to learn new things a bit behind the curve, while feeling as if you're cutting edge
 
2022-11-30 12:04:35 AM  

covfefe: If anyone knows. Could dark matter just be H+ with no electrons around? It would naturally push apart from itself as a cloud, and don't photons need electrons to work? I'm sure there's reasons this has been rejected.


There are probably astronomy reasons why clouds of naked protons couldn't form in the first place, and even if they did, the static discharges whenever they encountered "normal" (in this case, neutral) would be spectacular.
Plus there would have to be corresponding clouds of free electrons somewhere else to keep the universe's overall charge balanced, and those static discharges would be even more spectacular.
 
2022-11-30 12:05:49 AM  
p.s. dear readers:

if you bought string theory, you might just be susceptible to foolhardy socially driven certainty in areas that should really be mentally filed as "uh wait a minute"
 
2022-11-30 12:08:26 AM  
so it doesn't seem like i'm just here to throw rotten mental vegetables:

i invite you all to consider an alternative hypothesis: cosmological constants are not always

wouldn't that be fun
 
2022-11-30 12:11:34 AM  

Buttforce: so it doesn't seem like i'm just here to throw rotten mental vegetables:

i invite you all to consider an alternative hypothesis: cosmological constants are not always

wouldn't that be fun


imgs.xkcd.comView Full Size
 
2022-11-30 7:53:17 AM  

FarkingChas: "... And is the nightmare ... or not being able to find its high school math class"

This is really a common nightmare? I have had this. Kinda. Many times. Mine was about college. Mid-term, I realize there is a class I am supposed to be taking. But I can't find out which one. A variation is that I am in a kind of maze of hallways and I can't find the room. Another variation is that I keep going into the wrong classroom and have to leave when the wrong class starts.


Nightmare hell, that's a wet dream to me.

CLASS DISMIIIIIIIISSED!
 
2022-11-30 11:09:50 AM  

Buttforce: New Farkin User Name: Buttforce: friendly reminder that dark matter and dark energy are physicist copes to avoid the reality that the cosmos is doing something super weird that we haven't modeled yet

friendly reminder that you're a dipshiat

i'd say i hope you remember me ten or so years down the line, by which time this will have largely tossed in the hypothesis dumpster with other garbage like string theory and aether, and assuming civilization is still standing, but we both know this isn't how human beings assimilate new information

let me just say i'm honored to have you mentally bury me as part of your own personal endless series of emotionally-driven memory revisions that allow you to learn new things a bit behind the curve, while feeling as if you're cutting edge


It might be wrong. It very well could be. But proudly declaiming that scientists don't know shiat and you know the secrets they can't is moronic regardless of whether we find dark matter or another theory finds favor
 
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