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(CNN)   He really does have the worst lawyers. Amusing tag for the judge who is sick of their sh...shenanigans   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Amusing, Prosecutor, Lawyer, Donald Trump, Parking, Attorney at law, Judge Juan Merchan, Judge, Trump Corporation  
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4870 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Nov 2022 at 7:17 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-11-29 2:22:22 AM  
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2022-11-29 3:01:55 AM  
Juan?  That's a rather swarthy sounding name.  Shouldn't the judge recuse himself and make way for a more, ahem, traditional sort of jurisprudence?
 
2022-11-29 6:28:30 AM  
"It's almost as though you really don't want me to rule on the issue," Merchan told Necheles. "It's almost as though you don't want me to get it right. I'm not accepting any filings any more from the Trump Corporation, period."

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2022-11-29 7:19:45 AM  
Pissing off a judge seems like a bad idea.
 
2022-11-29 7:24:10 AM  
"It's almost as though you really don't want me to rule on the issue," Merchan told Necheles. "It's almost as though you don't want me to get it right . , ."

Almost.

Almost.
 
2022-11-29 7:25:28 AM  
Obviously, what team Trump needs to do here is double down and show that judge who's boss!
😂😂
 
2022-11-29 7:26:18 AM  
Shenanigans?!
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2022-11-29 7:27:06 AM  
Did someone say "shenanigans"?

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2022-11-29 7:30:46 AM  

bertor_vidas: Did someone say "shenanigans"?

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FormlessOne did it better
 
2022-11-29 7:34:50 AM  

Weaver95: Pissing off a judge seems like a bad idea.


Lawyer is attempting to create a mistrial, since they think they wont face any consequences for being a bad lawyer
 
2022-11-29 7:36:53 AM  

kkinnison: Weaver95: Pissing off a judge seems like a bad idea.

Lawyer is attempting to create a mistrial, since they think they wont face any consequences for being a bad lawyer


I'm not a lawyer but that seems like a dice roll and not a strategy.
 
2022-11-29 7:39:06 AM  
If you have the facts, argue the facts. If you have the law, argue the law. If. you have neither, start a big farking tantrum
 
2022-11-29 7:41:33 AM  

Weaver95: kkinnison: Weaver95: Pissing off a judge seems like a bad idea.

Lawyer is attempting to create a mistrial, since they think they wont face any consequences for being a bad lawyer

I'm not a lawyer but that seems like a dice roll and not a strategy.


It is a dice roll. And so far they're rolling a nat 1.
 
2022-11-29 7:42:56 AM  
Judge reprimands Trump Corp. lawyers for late night filings

"Reprimands"? -yawn- Let me know when they finally get around to "punishes".
 
2022-11-29 8:00:42 AM  
So the Trump Co "defense" is that the accounting firm was responsible for making sure the Trump Co statements were accurate & lawful.  Basically the Trump Co argument is that if you contract with a sleazy accountant you should be able to get away with anything.

The judge is pushing back because it's not the accounting firm that's on trial, and Trump Co bears ultimate responsibility for the accuracy of its filings.  The only valid defense to "you cooked the books" is "we didn't cook the books", not "we're the real victims of our crooked books".
 
2022-11-29 8:02:30 AM  
All he's doing is buying time.  This is what he does for all his lawsuits.  It won't work this time, he's farked.
 
2022-11-29 8:04:38 AM  
Made the mistake of swearing on the witness stand once (I tend to swear like a sailor).

My first reaction was to beg the judge for forgiveness...  In His Courtroom, the Judge is as to God.  Piss Him off at your own risk...  And that was a slip of the tongue.  DELIBERATELY trying to obfuscated and annoy the Magistrate is counted among those drunken ideas of "Let's drop our balls in the blender, and hit the Puree button!"
 
2022-11-29 8:08:04 AM  

joen00b: All he's doing is buying time.  This is what he does for all his lawsuits.  It won't work this time, he's farked.


Not to mention that the GOP are paying the legal bills here. Every dollar that goes to trump is a dollar that doesn't go to reelecting a republican.
 
2022-11-29 8:08:30 AM  

Intoxikatherine: Weaver95: kkinnison: Weaver95: Pissing off a judge seems like a bad idea.

Lawyer is attempting to create a mistrial, since they think they wont face any consequences for being a bad lawyer

I'm not a lawyer but that seems like a dice roll and not a strategy.

It is a dice roll. And so far they're rolling a nat 1.


Which takes some doing in backgammon
 
2022-11-29 8:09:33 AM  

Muta: bertor_vidas: Did someone say "shenanigans"?

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FormlessOne did it better


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2022-11-29 8:17:14 AM  
"We lied to our accountants but it's their fault we weren't caught" is an interesting defense.
 
2022-11-29 8:20:05 AM  
The judge denied Necheles' request to consider Bender a "hostile" witness and her motion to introduce an accounting code of conduct.

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2022-11-29 8:26:18 AM  

Weaver95: kkinnison: Weaver95: Pissing off a judge seems like a bad idea.

Lawyer is attempting to create a mistrial, since they think they wont face any consequences for being a bad lawyer

I'm not a lawyer but that seems like a dice roll and not a strategy.


Hey, they took the case, and this is the best shot that they've got.

Smarter attorneys would have just said, "nope, too busy, sorry."
 
2022-11-29 8:30:25 AM  
Given that he's faced exactly zero consequences for years of stunningly obvious criming, I'd hate to think what actually competent lawyers could do.
 
2022-11-29 8:32:01 AM  
I have the best attorneys, no one has better. It's these activist judges. Mexican mostly, some are good people, but it's very rare people say. A good judge appointed by myself, would not have done this.
 
2022-11-29 8:46:29 AM  
On cross examination, Bender was asked by Bill Brennan, an attorney for the Trump Payroll Corp., if he still thought he did a good job as an accountant for the Trump companies.
Bender replied, "Does Barry Manilow know you raid his wardrobe?"
 
2022-11-29 8:47:15 AM  

Muta: bertor_vidas: Did someone say "shenanigans"?

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FormlessOne did it better


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-11-29 9:13:42 AM  

Weaver95: Pissing off a judge seems like a bad idea.


They're doing It to show bias when they appeal.
 
2022-11-29 9:40:35 AM  

SomeAmerican: So the Trump Co "defense" is that the accounting firm was responsible for making sure the Trump Co statements were accurate & lawful.  Basically the Trump Co argument is that if you contract with a sleazy accountant you should be able to get away with anything.

Lamer than that...it seems to be "if you contract an honest accountant, and hide information from him, you should be able to get away with anything"...if I'm reading tfa correctly.


The judge is pushing back because it's not the accounting firm that's on trial, and Trump Co bears ultimate responsibility for the accuracy of its filings.  The only valid defense to "you cooked the books" is "we didn't cook the books", not "we're the real victims of our crooked books".

Yep, with the caveat that if the accountant DID the cook the books, AND the client had zero knowledge of it, the client should in fact avoid some penalties.

Not the case here, I think :)
 
2022-11-29 9:42:12 AM  

hubiestubert: Weaver95: kkinnison: Weaver95: Pissing off a judge seems like a bad idea.

Lawyer is attempting to create a mistrial, since they think they wont face any consequences for being a bad lawyer

I'm not a lawyer but that seems like a dice roll and not a strategy.

Hey, they took the case, and this is the best shot that they've got.

Smarter attorneys would have just said, "nope, too busy, sorry."


Trump et al seem to have worked through all the smart attorneys in the country...now they're on to the bottom of the barrel...and then there's the Liberty U. grads...
 
2022-11-29 9:42:56 AM  
i.imgflip.comView Full Size
 
2022-11-29 9:44:12 AM  

GrogSmash2: Made the mistake of swearing on the witness stand once (I tend to swear like a sailor).

My first reaction was to beg the judge for forgiveness...  In His Courtroom, the Judge is as to God.  Piss Him off at your own risk...  And that was a slip of the tongue.  DELIBERATELY trying to obfuscated and annoy the Magistrate is counted among those drunken ideas of "Let's drop our balls in the blender, and hit the Puree button!"


Yep.

I've done a lot of court work through the years (mostly expert testimony type stuff) and at one point the attorney asked what the client said his pain level was on first presentation.

I paused.

"Your Honor, members of the Court, I mean no disrespect and I am quoting the patient's words directly from the documentation on that date. 'Doc, this motherfarkin' hurts!'"
 
2022-11-29 10:06:22 AM  

PunGent: hubiestubert: Weaver95: kkinnison: Weaver95: Pissing off a judge seems like a bad idea.

Lawyer is attempting to create a mistrial, since they think they wont face any consequences for being a bad lawyer

I'm not a lawyer but that seems like a dice roll and not a strategy.

Hey, they took the case, and this is the best shot that they've got.

Smarter attorneys would have just said, "nope, too busy, sorry."

Trump et al seem to have worked through all the smart attorneys in the country...now they're on to the bottom of the barrel...and then there's the Liberty U. grads...

Now

?  Do you know what law school Michael Cohen attended?  Frickin' Cooley Law School.  Consistently ranked as the worst law school in the country.  Seriously, the Trump Org hasn't been reduced to relying on the worst lawyers.  It started with the worst lawyers and has been trying to work its way up.
 
2022-11-29 10:09:18 AM  
kyle declares shenanigans
Youtube UbtByiZrKqY


might be NSFW, it is South Park...
 
2022-11-29 10:09:50 AM  

joen00b: All he's doing is buying time.  This is what he does for all his lawsuits.  It won't work this time, he's farked.


I still don't understand how the owner and CEO of the company is not a defendant in the case.
 
2022-11-29 10:20:28 AM  
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2022-11-29 10:25:06 AM  

PunGent: hubiestubert: Weaver95: kkinnison: Weaver95: Pissing off a judge seems like a bad idea.

Lawyer is attempting to create a mistrial, since they think they wont face any consequences for being a bad lawyer

I'm not a lawyer but that seems like a dice roll and not a strategy.

Hey, they took the case, and this is the best shot that they've got.

Smarter attorneys would have just said, "nope, too busy, sorry."

Trump et al seem to have worked through all the smart attorneys in the country...now they're on to the bottom of the barrel...and then there's the Liberty U. grads...


media.tenor.comView Full Size

i0.wp.comView Full Size
 
2022-11-29 10:31:51 AM  

Weaver95: joen00b: All he's doing is buying time.  This is what he does for all his lawsuits.  It won't work this time, he's farked.

Not to mention that the GOP are paying the legal bills here. Every dollar that goes to trump is a dollar that doesn't go to reelecting a republican.


Wasn't there an agreement that the GOP would stop paying Trump's bills if he declared that he was running for office again?
 
2022-11-29 10:44:09 AM  
> Judge Juan Merchan reprimanded lawyers for the Trump Corporation for filing motions and new exhibits late Sunday night that they wanted to introduce Monday morning when they questioned Mazars accountant Donald Bender, telling them he will no longer accept any motions from the attorneys.
Defense attorneys had submitted 18 exhibits to the prosecution around midnight.
"It's inconsiderate at a minimum," the judge said. At worst, it's "good old-fashion sandbagging."


I don't understand what Judge Merchan means by sandbagging here.

Here is one definition

Legally speaking, "sandbagging" specifically refers to trial counsel's intentional silence in the face of potential error with the hope of preserving the issue on appeal. (Black's Law Dictionary, Ninth Edition.) More generally, however, it describes trial counsel's failure to play fair.

from https://www.sdcba.org/?pg=Ethics-in-Brief--4-14-2014
Other discussion here https://raymondpward.typepad.com/newlegalwriter/2006/11/sandbagging.html

Is the Judge saying that Team Trump is filing exhibits full of bogus information that if not processed and flagged as bogus can be used in an appeal claiming it was wrongly allowed?

Or is there some more general sense of trying to overwhelm by filing tons of irrelevant information?
 
2022-11-29 10:48:11 AM  

Officer Barrelroll: joen00b: All he's doing is buying time.  This is what he does for all his lawsuits.  It won't work this time, he's farked.

I still don't understand how the owner and CEO of the company is not a defendant in the case.


Same here.
 
2022-11-29 10:53:40 AM  

sniderman: Judge reprimands Trump Corp. lawyers for late night filings

"Reprimands"? -yawn- Let me know when they finally get around to "punishes".


A reprimand IS a punishment when used between a judge and an attorney. It's the last step before a sanction.

Try to understand that if the judge "punishes" the attorneys in this case, right now, then the trial has to stop, a mistrial is declared, and we get to start all over again. Is that what you want to happen, so that the attorneys can be "punished"?
 
2022-11-29 11:04:34 AM  

Screw_this_life: Officer Barrelroll: joen00b: All he's doing is buying time.  This is what he does for all his lawsuits.  It won't work this time, he's farked.

I still don't understand how the owner and CEO of the company is not a defendant in the case.

Same here.


Do you really want to know, or are you just whining?

Because the charges were filed against The Trump Corporation dba The Trump Organization, dba The Trump Payroll Corp., and Allen Weisselberg. Trump was not a named defendant, although he appears in the filing as both the Owner and as "Unindicted Co-Conspirator #1."  https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/01/politics/read-documents-trump-organization-charges/index.html

Weisselberg is the one who actually carried out and benefited by the criminal acts here; the Trump Corporation merely aided and abetted him in doing so. There is as yet no evidence that Donald Trump, the individual, committed any criminal acts in assisting Weisselberg in cheating on  his taxes.

Does that make any sense to you or would you care to whine a little more?
 
2022-11-29 11:06:30 AM  
all right time is running out it's happening and they can't keep paying the attorneys forever and if you disagree then you're a doom saying eeyore bernie socialist bro independent
 
2022-11-29 11:14:16 AM  

HairBolus: I don't understand what Judge Merchan means by sandbagging here.


HairBolus: More generally, however, it describes trial counsel's failure to play fair.


This is what the judge is talking about. Team TFG filed multiple motions after hours, intending those motions to be heard and enforced the next morning at trial - with the expectation that the prosecution would not be prepared to argue those motions and therefore be in a worse position for the remainder of the trial.

The rules allow last-minute filings, but the general rules and decorum of a trial requires as much notice as possible to opposing counsel ahead of time. Something like requesting a witness be considered "hostile" (legal definition) at the eleventh hour doesn't give the opposing side enough time to approach and prepare questions accordingly.

"Sandbagging" has become something of a fluid term in the legal community, but as you quoted above, the general use means "trying some shady stuff."
 
2022-11-29 11:38:40 AM  
"He really does have the worst lawyers."

Like attracts like.
 
2022-11-29 11:42:50 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Screw_this_life: Officer Barrelroll: joen00b: All he's doing is buying time.  This is what he does for all his lawsuits.  It won't work this time, he's farked.

I still don't understand how the owner and CEO of the company is not a defendant in the case.

Same here.

Do you really want to know, or are you just whining?

Because the charges were filed against The Trump Corporation dba The Trump Organization, dba The Trump Payroll Corp., and Allen Weisselberg. Trump was not a named defendant, although he appears in the filing as both the Owner and as "Unindicted Co-Conspirator #1."  https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/01/politics/read-documents-trump-organization-charges/index.html

Weisselberg is the one who actually carried out and benefited by the criminal acts here; the Trump Corporation merely aided and abetted him in doing so. There is as yet no evidence that Donald Trump, the individual, committed any criminal acts in assisting Weisselberg in cheating on  his taxes.

Does that make any sense to you or would you care to whine a little more?


It was a genuine question, but thanks for the "whining" crap.
 
2022-11-29 12:21:54 PM  

GrogSmash2: Made the mistake of swearing on the witness stand once (I tend to swear like a sailor).

My first reaction was to beg the judge for forgiveness...  In His Courtroom, the Judge is as to God.  Piss Him off at your own risk...  And that was a slip of the tongue.  DELIBERATELY trying to obfuscated and annoy the Magistrate is counted among those drunken ideas of "Let's drop our balls in the blender, and hit the Puree button!"


Meh, they know when they're dealing with little people, or real people. Billionaires are automatically real people.
 
2022-11-29 12:45:17 PM  

Weaver95: kkinnison: Weaver95: Pissing off a judge seems like a bad idea.

Lawyer is attempting to create a mistrial, since they think they wont face any consequences for being a bad lawyer

I'm not a lawyer but that seems like a dice roll and not a strategy.


It may not be his lawyers. Something I learned during my divorce. The lawyer gives you advice, lays out odds, explains potential outcomes and consequences. Which defense to pursue is ultimately up to you which is what I believe we're seeing here.
 
2022-11-29 2:05:08 PM  

SomeAmerican: So the Trump Co "defense" is that the accounting firm was responsible for making sure the Trump Co statements were accurate & lawful.  Basically the Trump Co argument is that if you contract with a sleazy accountant you should be able to get away with anything.

The judge is pushing back because it's not the accounting firm that's on trial, and Trump Co bears ultimate responsibility for the accuracy of its filings.  The only valid defense to "you cooked the books" is "we didn't cook the books", not "we're the real victims of our crooked books".


"We may have cooked the books and committed some light treason, but it's really 100% the fault of the waiter who carried it out of the kitchen for everyone to see"
 
2022-11-29 2:07:09 PM  

SomeAmerican: The judge is pushing back because it's not the accounting firm that's on trial, and Trump Co bears ultimate responsibility for the accuracy of its filings.  The only valid defense to "you cooked the books" is "we didn't cook the books", not "we're the real victims of our crooked books".


To be fair, they did prepare a proper defense but he accidentally must have left it in his other pants.

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