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(Ars Technica)   Electric vehicles reduced gasoline usage in the US by *checks notes* half a percent?   (arstechnica.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Internal combustion engine, Argonne National Lab, Electric vehicle, Electric vehicles, plug-in vehicles, Automobile, national gasoline consumption, tons of greenhouse gases  
•       •       •

685 clicks; posted to STEM » on 28 Nov 2022 at 9:45 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-11-28 8:19:12 PM  
Getting 50 mpg with a plug-in hybrid ford.  farking game changing.
 
2022-11-28 8:35:57 PM  
For 2021 specifically, plug-in vehicles saved about 690 million gallons of gasoline-about two days of consumption-and reduced CO2 emissions by 5.4 million metric tons, consuming 6.1 TWh in the process.

lol what a failure, right subby!
 
2022-11-28 8:38:17 PM  
So how many ev type vehicles are out there compared with ICE?
 
2022-11-28 8:39:18 PM  

west.la.lawyer: Getting 50 mpg with a plug-in hybrid ford.  farking game changing.


Got a Volvo all electric and loving it, get home and just plugging in and not have to fill with gas is awesome.
 
2022-11-28 8:40:22 PM  
If they're including PHEVs, those still burn gas. Just a bit less gas.

I'll tell ya I really enjoy driving for almost free. Took a 2,000mi roundtrip from Sacramento to Vegas, Tucson and back around through Flagstaff and I've paid under $100 in electricity the whole drive.
 
2022-11-28 8:47:40 PM  
This is the longest I've ever gone on a single tank of gas with my plug-in hybrid, ending just before Thanksgiving:
Fark user imageView Full Size


Maybe I'm not reducing national gasoline usage much, but I've reduced my personal gasoline usage by a great deal.

// But please, continue to argue about gas vs electric, if it pleases you to do so. That will absolutely create new oil reserves.
 
2022-11-28 9:28:58 PM  
Yes yes all change must be HUGE, incremental change is for pansies
 
2022-11-28 9:42:35 PM  

plecos: So how many ev type vehicles are out there compared with ICE?


2 million vs 275 million
 
2022-11-28 9:54:19 PM  

weddingsinger: plecos: So how many ev type vehicles are out there compared with ICE?

2 million vs 275 million


Thanks...so .7% is sa saving .5%?  I'll take that.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2022-11-28 9:56:29 PM  
Which is not small!  It's a good percentage.  Plenty of people can appreciate a smaller percentage.
 
2022-11-28 10:05:23 PM  

weddingsinger: plecos: So how many ev type vehicles are out there compared with ICE?

2 million vs 275 million


So a 5% reduction with less than 1% of vehicle change over? That's rather nice.

/Is aware there is probably more to the statistical change than just the change in vehicles
//Still promising
///Threes
 
2022-11-28 10:08:49 PM  

NateAsbestos: For 2021 specifically, plug-in vehicles saved about 690 million gallons of gasoline-about two days of consumption-and reduced CO2 emissions by 5.4 million metric tons, consuming 6.1 TWh in the process.

lol what a failure, right subby!


Yes.

I am not Subby, but that is categorically a failure beneath even the estimated threshold for failure. that's incredibly bad.
 
2022-11-28 10:08:51 PM  
Maybe because EVs aren't getting adapted enough to people that consume the most gasoline(e.g Amazon contract drivers and Uber  drivers).
 
2022-11-28 10:10:06 PM  

fortheloveof: weddingsinger: plecos: So how many ev type vehicles are out there compared with ICE?

2 million vs 275 million

So a 5% reduction with less than 1% of vehicle change over? That's rather nice.

/Is aware there is probably more to the statistical change than just the change in vehicles
//Still promising
///Threes


No, it is not promising. 20 year ago that would be prmosiing. now it is failure. Now, thoese numbers put an end to all sorts of plans that are "promising" because the promises cannot be delivered/

It's the opposite of promising. All the promises involved are now off-the-table.
 
2022-11-28 10:11:49 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: NateAsbestos: For 2021 specifically, plug-in vehicles saved about 690 million gallons of gasoline-about two days of consumption-and reduced CO2 emissions by 5.4 million metric tons, consuming 6.1 TWh in the process.

lol what a failure, right subby!

Yes.

I am not Subby, but that is categorically a failure beneath even the estimated threshold for failure. that's incredibly bad.


Well I'm convinced!
 
2022-11-28 10:11:59 PM  

zedster: Yes yes all change must be HUGE, incremental change is for pansies


Thank you, yes. The time for incremental changes was the 1990s, and the Kyoto Protocols failed utterly. We needed huge, sweeping changes in the 00s, got nothing. Now, anything incremental is worthless because of the combined, stacking failures. We are experiencing catastrophic failures now, now some small uptick in a few indicators, and nothing is ahppening at a rate that can even get a response beyond running when the flood or fire arrives in somebody's house.
 
2022-11-28 10:12:13 PM  

plecos: So how many ev type vehicles are out there compared with ICE?


Small engines, like leaf blowers, are incredibly inefficient.  And there are a billion of them blowing leaves, cutting grass, sawing wood and throwing snow.  And boats.  Lots of boats.

It's like eating half a cookie and saying "food can't be the answer, I'm still starving."
 
2022-11-28 10:12:54 PM  

make me some tea: If they're including PHEVs, those still burn gas. Just a bit less gas.

I'll tell ya I really enjoy driving for almost free. Took a 2,000mi roundtrip from Sacramento to Vegas, Tucson and back around through Flagstaff and I've paid under $100 in electricity the whole drive.


Why did you have to pay? Did you have to use stations other than EA or are you charging to 100?
 
2022-11-28 10:13:15 PM  

NateAsbestos: Bennie Crabtree: NateAsbestos: For 2021 specifically, plug-in vehicles saved about 690 million gallons of gasoline-about two days of consumption-and reduced CO2 emissions by 5.4 million metric tons, consuming 6.1 TWh in the process.

lol what a failure, right subby!

Yes.

I am not Subby, but that is categorically a failure beneath even the estimated threshold for failure. that's incredibly bad.

Well I'm convinced!


Nate, you're never convinced. You read all the expanations, then you handwave them away. I'm just opposiing you because your lies have to be opposed by someonesince this is a form of media, after all.
 
2022-11-28 10:22:04 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Maybe because EVs aren't getting adapted enough to people that consume the most gasoline(e.g Amazon contract drivers and Uber  drivers).


One they fix the battery capacity (more miles) and the charge output (faster charging) it will make a HUGE difference. It's not that far off, either,

Meanwhile, imagine the only gas stations are a few miles from you at any time, there are only 4 for your town of over 100k. There are 3 cars waiting for 2 pumps while 4 pumps sit broken. Once you start it takes 30-45 minutes to fill up.
 
2022-11-28 10:28:06 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: NateAsbestos: Bennie Crabtree: NateAsbestos: For 2021 specifically, plug-in vehicles saved about 690 million gallons of gasoline-about two days of consumption-and reduced CO2 emissions by 5.4 million metric tons, consuming 6.1 TWh in the process.

lol what a failure, right subby!

Yes.

I am not Subby, but that is categorically a failure beneath even the estimated threshold for failure. that's incredibly bad.

Well I'm convinced!

Nate, you're never convinced. You read all the expanations, then you handwave them away. I'm just opposiing you because your lies have to be opposed by someonesince this is a form of media, after all.


...are you on drugs?
 
2022-11-28 10:34:24 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Maybe because EVs aren't getting adapted enough to people that consume the most gasoline(e.g Amazon contract drivers and Uber  drivers).


we used to call these people mailmen and taxi drivers when the world was less dumb
 
2022-11-28 10:35:03 PM  

phygz: Meanwhile, imagine the only gas stations are a few miles from you at any time, there are only 4 for your town of over 100k. There are 3 cars waiting for 2 pumps while 4 pumps sit broken. Once you start it takes 30-45 minutes to fill up.


Or you just plug your car in at home, meaning you never need to go to one of those gas stations in the first place.
 
2022-11-28 10:35:32 PM  

plecos: weddingsinger: plecos: So how many ev type vehicles are out there compared with ICE?

2 million vs 275 million

Thanks...so .7% is sa saving .5%?  I'll take that.


More importantly, the early adopters of EVs were mostly those people who were already buying the fuel efficient cars.  I'd expect that the initial impacts would be relatively low.  We'll continue to see that kind of imbalance for some time.  Until we get displacement of fuel inefficient vehicles (read light trucks) that will remain the case.  Which is why I'm quite happy to see the EV plans for both Ford and Chevy.  The F-150 Lightning and the Silverado EV are the platforms that will be the bellweather on the EV migration.  All I can say is "so far, looking good".
 
2022-11-28 10:44:18 PM  

weddingsinger: plecos: So how many ev type vehicles are out there compared with ICE?

2 million vs 275 million


Does the 275M include commercial vehicles (trucks, vans, busses - if they use fossil fuels)? I'm guessing the number is for US only, and if so, 277 million cars for 330 million people means a lot of people own multiple cars and don't (can't) use them both at the same time. I'm guessing that most of the 2 million EV-types are used as the primary vehicle.
 
2022-11-28 10:46:30 PM  
Well, first of all, baby steps, and yay.

But the bigger issue is ... how is this push sustainable, if I can borrow that word? What was not reported is some pretty amazing stuff.

It is the good news.

The new Prius has almost twice the horsepower as last year's model, but it gets better mileage. Huh? And the battery on the plug in has 1.6 times the capacity of the year earlier. Huh? So you can drive it around like an EV and then switch, at any time, to using gasoline, for whatever reason, and you will be getting better MPG or kmL than just about anything on the road.

Hybrid production is expanding in India just when Tata is finding out it can't get batteries and components for EVs. Are all of those consumers just going to wait their turn to improve their standard of living?

Look. Most of the world is not going to buy an EV next year, or in the next 10 years. They are going to buy reliable vehicles that fit the infrastructure we have, not the one we wish we had. And when I say most of the world, I mean India, China, Indonesia, Nigeria, and 60 other countries with rapidly increasing incomes and no desire to use all of their clapped together electrical grids to support first world notions of transportation. For some reason, everyone stopped making cars for them and started making cars for Norwegians and dudebros.

As unpalatable as it might seem to purists, hybrids are going to win the battle and win the war to reduce emissions and fossil fuel use because they are a reasonable and practical vehicle for people today. While Tesla and Twitter and other turds spin down the drain, I hope people realize that hybrids are a green alternative with TWICE the development time and twenty times the development effort compared to EVs.

It is simply time to stop pinning all of our hopes on EVs and spending all of our time busting on the good, as though it were some enemy of some perfect which clearly does not exist.
 
2022-11-28 10:49:45 PM  

phygz: drjekel_mrhyde: Maybe because EVs aren't getting adapted enough to people that consume the most gasoline(e.g Amazon contract drivers and Uber  drivers).

One they fix the battery capacity (more miles) and the charge output (faster charging) it will make a HUGE difference. It's not that far off, either,

Meanwhile, imagine the only gas stations are a few miles from you at any time, there are only 4 for your town of over 100k. There are 3 cars waiting for 2 pumps while 4 pumps sit broken. Once you start it takes 30-45 minutes to fill up.


And you have a gas station at home or work or the store you are spending half an hour shopping.
 
2022-11-28 10:54:22 PM  
Down's a lot better than up.
 
2022-11-28 11:01:07 PM  

weddingsinger: plecos: So how many ev type vehicles are out there compared with ICE?

2 million vs 275 million


So what is going to chunk into that 275 million? How are those 275 million vehicles going to be "converted" to lower emission vehicles?

Well. You could spend a hundred billion dollars developing super fast, super huge trucks with super huge and expensive batteries to win over, say 5 million over 10 years or so. It is risky, you are pinning your hopes on the technology AND the customer AND policy AND investors.

Or you could just give people the performance they are used to, driving vehicles just like they usually drive, but which use half the gasoline. That is doable, and indeed, it has been done. But you can do that to 150 million vehicles during a 10 year span, just through attrition, and with no battery supply crisis or cultural revolution. And no huge infrastructure investment either.

Sure you are still using fossil fuels, but you get ten to twenty times the reduction in gasoline use. Roughly speaking, Japan has progressed by this model. Hybrids are ubiquitous. Plug ins are everywhere. EVs? mmmnotsomuch. Most importantly, everyone is on the same page. People expect slow incremental change and they seem happy with it.

Tesla was exciting, but what they did was incorrect, ill-conceived, and ultimately a failure. Humanity needs to salvage the good, sweep away that rubble, and keep its eye on the ball, not somebody's stock price.
 
2022-11-28 11:02:30 PM  

trialpha: phygz: Meanwhile, imagine the only gas stations are a few miles from you at any time, there are only 4 for your town of over 100k. There are 3 cars waiting for 2 pumps while 4 pumps sit broken. Once you start it takes 30-45 minutes to fill up.

Or you just plug your car in at home, meaning you never need to go to one of those gas stations in the first place.


Difficulty- no way to have home charging and free gas at those other places
 
2022-11-28 11:05:25 PM  

Mad_Radhu: phygz: drjekel_mrhyde: Maybe because EVs aren't getting adapted enough to people that consume the most gasoline(e.g Amazon contract drivers and Uber  drivers).

One they fix the battery capacity (more miles) and the charge output (faster charging) it will make a HUGE difference. It's not that far off, either,

Meanwhile, imagine the only gas stations are a few miles from you at any time, there are only 4 for your town of over 100k. There are 3 cars waiting for 2 pumps while 4 pumps sit broken. Once you start it takes 30-45 minutes to fill up.

And you have a gas station at home or work or the store you are spending half an hour shopping.


This would work okay if the chargers weren't often 1-3 football fields from the entrance of any store. Yes, I should just walk, but sometimes I don't want to.
 
2022-11-28 11:25:08 PM  

phygz: drjekel_mrhyde: Maybe because EVs aren't getting adapted enough to people that consume the most gasoline(e.g Amazon contract drivers and Uber  drivers).

One they fix the battery capacity (more miles) and the charge output (faster charging) it will make a HUGE difference. It's not that far off, either,

Meanwhile, imagine the only gas stations are a few miles from you at any time, there are only 4 for your town of over 100k. There are 3 cars waiting for 2 pumps while 4 pumps sit broken. Once you start it takes 30-45 minutes to fill up.


Conflict. Problems. Inadequacies. Frustration. Waiting.

I think that this whole "EVs for everybody" is just wrong-headed from the get go. I am convinced that there is a mix. A sweet spot. A combination that is going to suit every person and every application. Roughly speaking, it should be EVs in cities, hybrids in rural areas, and plug in hybrids for suburbs. Also, roughly speaking, it might be that lower income people and nations will use "older" technologies, which might be cheaper. Higher income people and nations will use "newer" technologies. All of that is going to co-exist, overlap, and mix.

And what a great world that is! Choice! Constant improvement of standards and usage of old vehicles with recycling and repair.

If you adopt or conform to that model, you don't need extensive infrastructure. Urban vehicles have zero emissions, very low noise, and smaller batteries because they don't need the range. They can be small, light, low speed vehicles and be very safe. In the end, MOST people will drive EVs, and do it in places where EVs make sense.

In rural areas, you need higher energy density, more power, higher speeds, and probably bigger vehicles for all kinds of needs. Why oh why struggle so hard to make an EV that fits all those design criteria? Why does that make sense? Why use all those expensive materials? Why put a transformer next to every farmhouse? Why haul a huge battery up a mountainside instead of a hundred pound gas tank? EV trucks are neat, but they represent a black hole of effort and materials to try and please people who are unlikely to be pleased.

Plug in hybrids fill the gap. They are a little more complicated and a little more expensive, but nothing that an experienced manufacturer can't handle. They are go-anywhere vehicles, but they are most useful for suburbs and places where middle class people live. Eventually, there will be flavors and versions ... well... there are already lighter Prius like vehicles, and minivans and SUVs. Most consumers will just find something that fits.

We already have everything we need to make a much better world. If it feels like we are being pushed in the wrong direction, it might be that it IS the wrong direction.
 
2022-11-28 11:31:26 PM  

2fardownthread: The new Prius


Toyota claim 50mpg, but their figures are always off by 20% or more. Let's say it does get 50. That's still 240g/CO2 per mi. Over the useful life of the vehicle (150,000 miles?), you'll produce close to 40t of CO2 on top of the manufacturing footprint. If you have the plug-in you'll do slightly better, but you're still vastly underperforming a pure EV on the same power. I have driven 100,000 miles in my LEAF now and I'm at approximately 3.2tCO2e+ manufacturing. I'm actually overestimating here because I don't believe my providers numbers of 7gCO2/kWh on 100% hydro. Typically there's a small amount of methane (!) emissions associated with operating the reservoir.

It will be interesting to see how the new Prius sells. It's kind of polished turd. Hybrid and PHEV sales are tanking worldwide as buyers realize the benefits of EVs. Maybe the look of it will drive some sales. It certainly looks very nice.
 
2022-11-28 11:35:41 PM  

Likwit: 2fardownthread: The new Prius

Toyota claim 50mpg, but their figures are always off by 20% or more. Let's say it does get 50. That's still 240g/CO2 per mi. Over the useful life of the vehicle (150,000 miles?), you'll produce close to 40t of CO2 on top of the manufacturing footprint. If you have the plug-in you'll do slightly better, but you're still vastly underperforming a pure EV on the same power. I have driven 100,000 miles in my LEAF now and I'm at approximately 3.2tCO2e+ manufacturing. I'm actually overestimating here because I don't believe my providers numbers of 7gCO2/kWh on 100% hydro. Typically there's a small amount of methane (!) emissions associated with operating the reservoir.

It will be interesting to see how the new Prius sells. It's kind of polished turd. Hybrid and PHEV sales are tanking worldwide as buyers realize the benefits of EVs. Maybe the look of it will drive some sales. It certainly looks very nice.


For apartment dwellers in cold climes, we can't go pure EV. All it takes is a couple of cold days and forgetting to top off before you park it to have a dead battery. Then you're needing a tow. Until apartments have some sort of charging facility, pure EVs are a no-go. Hybrids still have a use.
 
2022-11-28 11:35:44 PM  

Likwit: 2fardownthread: The new Prius

Toyota claim 50mpg, but their figures are always off by 20% or more. Let's say it does get 50. That's still 240g/CO2 per mi. Over the useful life of the vehicle (150,000 miles?), you'll produce close to 40t of CO2 on top of the manufacturing footprint. If you have the plug-in you'll do slightly better, but you're still vastly underperforming a pure EV on the same power. I have driven 100,000 miles in my LEAF now and I'm at approximately 3.2tCO2e+ manufacturing. I'm actually overestimating here because I don't believe my providers numbers of 7gCO2/kWh on 100% hydro. Typically there's a small amount of methane (!) emissions associated with operating the reservoir.

It will be interesting to see how the new Prius sells. It's kind of polished turd. Hybrid and PHEV sales are tanking worldwide as buyers realize the benefits of EVs. Maybe the look of it will drive some sales. It certainly looks very nice.


A legitimate range of over 200 miles on a charge and more level 3 chargers along the interstate is going change perception of all EV vehicles.
 
2022-11-28 11:36:20 PM  

2fardownthread: Roughly speaking, it should be EVs in cities, hybrids in rural areas, and plug in hybrids for suburbs.


No. The people who drive the most need to be in EVs if the goal is reduced emissions. If you're worried about the manufacturing footprint of the battery as you always claim, then high-mileage vehicles should be electrified. Gas for rural areas also means added pollution and expense to get the fuel out there. The average American car uses 60,000lbs of fuel over its useful life. If you're dead set on keeping ICE around, they should be hybridized and operating in urban environments where they're used sparingly and benefit from regen braking in traffic.
 
2022-11-28 11:40:39 PM  

phygz: make me some tea: If they're including PHEVs, those still burn gas. Just a bit less gas.

I'll tell ya I really enjoy driving for almost free. Took a 2,000mi roundtrip from Sacramento to Vegas, Tucson and back around through Flagstaff and I've paid under $100 in electricity the whole drive.

Why did you have to pay? Did you have to use stations other than EA or are you charging to 100?


EA maintenance in Arizona is in the terlet. I made lots of support calls. EVgo got more of my business.
 
2022-11-29 12:12:20 AM  

zedster: Yes yes all change must be HUGE, incremental change is for pansies


And nerds who know want something to do with that stupid calculus nonsense they learned in school.
 
2022-11-29 12:25:39 AM  

make me some tea: I'll tell ya I really enjoy driving for almost free. Took a 2,000mi roundtrip from Sacramento to Vegas, Tucson and back around through Flagstaff and I've paid under $100 in electricity the whole drive.


But how much did that extension cord cost you?
 
2022-11-29 1:17:40 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Maybe because EVs aren't getting adapted enough to people that consume the most gasoline(e.g Amazon contract drivers and Uber  drivers).


We have a winner! Telling a regular person to save the environment is nice and all, but it's mostly a PR dodge. People get to feel like they're doing something and the focus drifts away from industry.

Notice that they didn't bring up diesel.
 
2022-11-29 1:21:35 AM  

NateAsbestos: For 2021 specifically, plug-in vehicles saved about 690 million gallons of gasoline-about two days of consumption-and reduced CO2 emissions by 5.4 million metric tons, consuming 6.1 TWh in the process.

lol what a failure, right subby!


Doomsday delayed by 2 days
 
2022-11-29 1:22:47 AM  

eurotrader: west.la.lawyer: Getting 50 mpg with a plug-in hybrid ford.  farking game changing.

Got a Volvo all electric and loving it, get home and just plugging in and not have to fill with gas is awesome.


Did you get your electric Volvo from AdamAndEve.com?   Does it shock your peen?
 
2022-11-29 2:00:06 AM  

make me some tea: phygz: make me some tea: If they're including PHEVs, those still burn gas. Just a bit less gas.

I'll tell ya I really enjoy driving for almost free. Took a 2,000mi roundtrip from Sacramento to Vegas, Tucson and back around through Flagstaff and I've paid under $100 in electricity the whole drive.

Why did you have to pay? Did you have to use stations other than EA or are you charging to 100?

EA maintenance in Arizona is in the terlet. I made lots of support calls. EVgo got more of my business.


Noted. Have you charged over 80?
 
2022-11-29 2:04:04 AM  
Are several people in this thread the same person?
 
2022-11-29 2:42:14 AM  
Not sure of the author's intent, but reading the facts set out in the article, what it demonstrates is the need to increase sale of EVs as each EV provides a significant fuel use savings.
 
2022-11-29 3:07:32 AM  
When the numbers are that big half a percent is considerable.

.5% of 135 Billion gallons is 675 million gallons equivalent to one thousand one hundred twenty-five olympic sized swimming pools full of gasoline.
 
2022-11-29 3:22:36 AM  
Are EV owners more likely to have jobs with remote work policies?
 
2022-11-29 4:34:12 AM  
Given that plug-in vehicles represent almost 1 percent of all light vehicles on the road in the US, it's disappointing that the reduction in gasoline usage was just more than half a percent.

Really? Sounds like wishful math to me. 99% burn gas. Almost 99% of new vehicles burn gas. The number of vehicles on US roads increases by several millions every year.

You're gonna need a lot more EVs on the road to make a difference.

Counterpoint: aren't states complaining about fuel tax revenue drops because of electrics and hybrids? Might that not be true? Could they be making shiat up to justify a tax increase?
 
2022-11-29 5:21:06 AM  

2fardownthread: phygz: drjekel_mrhyde: Maybe because EVs aren't getting adapted enough to people that consume the most gasoline(e.g Amazon contract drivers and Uber  drivers).

One they fix the battery capacity (more miles) and the charge output (faster charging) it will make a HUGE difference. It's not that far off, either,

Meanwhile, imagine the only gas stations are a few miles from you at any time, there are only 4 for your town of over 100k. There are 3 cars waiting for 2 pumps while 4 pumps sit broken. Once you start it takes 30-45 minutes to fill up.

Conflict. Problems. Inadequacies. Frustration. Waiting.

I think that this whole "EVs for everybody" is just wrong-headed from the get go. I am convinced that there is a mix. A sweet spot. A combination that is going to suit every person and every application. Roughly speaking, it should be EVs in cities, hybrids in rural areas, and plug in hybrids for suburbs. Also, roughly speaking, it might be that lower income people and nations will use "older" technologies, which might be cheaper. Higher income people and nations will use "newer" technologies. All of that is going to co-exist, overlap, and mix.

And what a great world that is! Choice! Constant improvement of standards and usage of old vehicles with recycling and repair.

If you adopt or conform to that model, you don't need extensive infrastructure. Urban vehicles have zero emissions, very low noise, and smaller batteries because they don't need the range. They can be small, light, low speed vehicles and be very safe. In the end, MOST people will drive EVs, and do it in places where EVs make sense.

In rural areas, you need higher energy density, more power, higher speeds, and probably bigger vehicles for all kinds of needs. Why oh why struggle so hard to make an EV that fits all those design criteria? Why does that make sense? Why use all those expensive materials? Why put a transformer next to every farmhouse? Why haul a huge battery up a mountainside instead of a hund ...


EV's are such a failure that they have never been able to make them fast enough to satisfy demand? Ever?
 
2022-11-29 6:51:51 AM  

plecos: So how many ev type vehicles are out there compared with ICE?


If you weren't lazy and actually READ THE ARTICLE, you would of had your answer in the second paragraph...
 
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