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(Yahoo)   Wait - Russia is planning for the "long term?" Those words. Subby does not think they mean what you think they mean   (news.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, United Kingdom, foreign policy, Rishi Sunak, Prime minister, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, long-term, strategies of other world powers, Foreign policy  
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1893 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Nov 2022 at 8:35 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



45 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-11-28 8:37:37 AM  
It might help if the Tories didn't churn out 3 PMs in 6 months.
 
2022-11-28 8:43:25 AM  

RasIanI: It might help if the Tories didn't churn out 3 PMs in 6 months.


I used to long for a parliamentary system in the US.  After watching Britain and Israel the last few years, I think we need to stick a band-aid on our two dominant party system.
 
2022-11-28 8:43:29 AM  
He means stop having elections where leadership of the country changes hands every so often. Because that's what Russia and China do.
 
2022-11-28 8:45:56 AM  

Halfabee64: RasIanI: It might help if the Tories didn't churn out 3 PMs in 6 months.

I used to long for a parliamentary system in the US.  After watching Britain and Israel the last few years, I think we need to stick a band-aid on our two dominant party system.


No system will work if too many voters are hateful idiots
 
2022-11-28 8:46:00 AM  

Halfabee64: RasIanI: It might help if the Tories didn't churn out 3 PMs in 6 months.

I used to long for a parliamentary system in the US.  After watching Britain and Israel the last few years, I think we need to stick a band-aid on our two dominant party system.


I think ranked choice ballots can serve as that Band-aid -- and getting rid of the EC.
 
2022-11-28 8:49:51 AM  
Dead citizens are easier to rule, once you've dealt with the immediate disposal?
 
2022-11-28 8:50:20 AM  
What Russia's long-term future looks like.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-11-28 8:51:07 AM  
Maybe form some sort of union of the countries you share a continent with?
 
2022-11-28 8:51:49 AM  
While I agree that China is one of the best countries at planning for the long term, that also means missing some short-term shiat that pops up organically. ie. their farked up housing/mortgage crisis and the zero COVID lockdown protests.
 
2022-11-28 8:53:20 AM  

Mister Buttons: While I agree that China is one of the best countries at planning for the long term, that also means missing some short-term shiat that pops up organically. ie. their farked up housing/mortgage crisis and the zero COVID lockdown protests.


I'm not so sure the Chinese Govt. survives this one.
 
2022-11-28 8:53:39 AM  
I think long term in this case means the Russians thinking no matter how long it takes we will get the Soviet Union back together
It make take years and millions of lives but we will get Ukraine than following that we are looking at you Baltics
 
2022-11-28 8:54:43 AM  
Is he proposing The Great Leap Forward where they ship Londoners out the West Country to work on collective farms?
 
2022-11-28 8:58:11 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Mister Buttons: While I agree that China is one of the best countries at planning for the long term, that also means missing some short-term shiat that pops up organically. ie. their farked up housing/mortgage crisis and the zero COVID lockdown protests.

I'm not so sure the Chinese Govt. survives this one.


Let me expand on that.

China has created a middle class for the first time ever. Those people are educated and want more sh*t because they have been introduced to the joys and evils of consumer capitalism.

Once you do that... keeping them controlled like lab rats grows almost impossible.

We'll see more of these protests. Not just about Covid, but about a lot of other things.
 
2022-11-28 8:59:34 AM  

RasIanI: Halfabee64: RasIanI: It might help if the Tories didn't churn out 3 PMs in 6 months.

I used to long for a parliamentary system in the US.  After watching Britain and Israel the last few years, I think we need to stick a band-aid on our two dominant party system.

I think ranked choice ballots can serve as that Band-aid -- and getting rid of the EC.


Get around the EC, sure. But if we're talking about using band-aids, then an actual constitutional amendment isn't something even worth taking seriously.
 
2022-11-28 9:04:17 AM  

RasIanI: Halfabee64: RasIanI: It might help if the Tories didn't churn out 3 PMs in 6 months.

I used to long for a parliamentary system in the US.  After watching Britain and Israel the last few years, I think we need to stick a band-aid on our two dominant party system.

I think ranked choice ballots can serve as that Band-aid -- and getting rid of the EC.


...and corporate money in politics.  PACs are a political abomination.
 
2022-11-28 9:05:21 AM  

RasIanI: Halfabee64: RasIanI: It might help if the Tories didn't churn out 3 PMs in 6 months.

I used to long for a parliamentary system in the US.  After watching Britain and Israel the last few years, I think we need to stick a band-aid on our two dominant party system.

I think ranked choice ballots can serve as that Band-aid -- and getting rid of the EC.


Getting rid of the EC should be paramount at this point.  It's obvious to anyone with a brain how it can easily be gamed now.
 
2022-11-28 9:11:22 AM  
the UK should plan its foreign policy for the long-term to match the strategies of other world powers such as Russia

The long-term strategy of Russia is to continually create enemies so that the populace is always terrified.  This allows them to rob the country blind.  It's a mafia state.
 
2022-11-28 9:29:01 AM  
While people were celebrating on top of the Berlin Wall Putin as a young KGB agent was alone in East Berlin office burning secret documents.  He clearly formed and held a grudge for decades which he has taken out on the West in the form of meddling in elections, etc.

That is really not a model for a healthy democracy.
 
2022-11-28 9:42:52 AM  

Halfabee64: RasIanI: It might help if the Tories didn't churn out 3 PMs in 6 months.

I used to long for a parliamentary system in the US.  After watching Britain and Israel the last few years, I think we need to stick a band-aid on our two dominant party system.


Even though Britain has a parliamentary system, they use fptp voting, which leads to similar problems as in the US. And Israel is dominated by right-wing parties; the only reason Likud briefly lost power was Bibi finally made too many enemies. But that was doomed to fail, because his enemies hate each other almost as much as they do him.
 
2022-11-28 9:44:20 AM  
"Our adversaries and competitors plan for the long term," Sunak will say in London on Monday evening, according to his office. "In the face of these challenges, 'short-termism' or wishful thinking will not suffice. So we will make an evolutionary leap in our approach. This means being stronger in defending our values and the openness on which our prosperity depends."

Sure, our economy sucks - Right NOW.

And it's really not likely to get better anytime soon, no matter what we do.

So, stop worrying about all this short-term anarchy and recession. Stop voting to get things fixed right away. Get onboard OUR bus, and I promise you that, in about 10-20 years, you will see a marked change in England's fortunes!
 
2022-11-28 9:44:44 AM  

NewportBarGuy: NewportBarGuy: Mister Buttons: While I agree that China is one of the best countries at planning for the long term, that also means missing some short-term shiat that pops up organically. ie. their farked up housing/mortgage crisis and the zero COVID lockdown protests.

I'm not so sure the Chinese Govt. survives this one.

Let me expand on that.

China has created a middle class for the first time ever. Those people are educated and want more sh*t because they have been introduced to the joys and evils of consumer capitalism.

Once you do that... keeping them controlled like lab rats grows almost impossible.

We'll see more of these protests. Not just about Covid, but about a lot of other things.


Complete rubbish. Capitalism and authoritarianism go hand-in-hand.
 
2022-11-28 9:45:42 AM  
Rishi Sunak will argue the UK should plan its foreign policy for the long-term to match the strategies of other world powers such as Russia and China, as the prime minister makes his first major foreign policy speech.

The text of Sunak's speech to the Commons has just been released to the media:

"Ladies and gentlemen, I pledge that, under the current government, our foreign policy will remain the same as it has in the past.  We will be just like the United States, only more so.  Thank you."
 
2022-11-28 9:46:44 AM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: RasIanI: Halfabee64: RasIanI: It might help if the Tories didn't churn out 3 PMs in 6 months.

I used to long for a parliamentary system in the US.  After watching Britain and Israel the last few years, I think we need to stick a band-aid on our two dominant party system.

I think ranked choice ballots can serve as that Band-aid -- and getting rid of the EC.

Get around the EC, sure. But if we're talking about using band-aids, then an actual constitutional amendment isn't something even worth taking seriously.


Band-Aids won't solve the problem when the body is bleeding profusely. All it will do is let people pretend they're doing something when they're actually not, or even making things worse.
 
2022-11-28 9:50:24 AM  
So... Sunak is planning to ask for a Parliament Act to ensure his re-election in perpetuity?
 
2022-11-28 9:54:10 AM  

Rapmaster2000: the UK should plan its foreign policy for the long-term to match the strategies of other world powers such as Russia

The long-term strategy of Russia is to continually create enemies so that the populace is always terrified.  This allows them to rob the country blind.  It's a mafia state.


Creating Afghanistan on your western border might make sense (to them) in that case. Back in reality land, it is absolutely f*cking insane and the boomerang/blowback effect is coming for Moscow.
 
2022-11-28 9:54:50 AM  
I generally just assume they are waiting for the party in power changes in the US so Johnson, Jordan, McCarthy etc. can make the case the US need to invade The Ukraine to save it from Nazis and Satanists that are in control and restore relations with our great ally in the east by removing all sanctions and issuing a former apology and promise that Kyiv will be levelled by dawn.
 
2022-11-28 10:11:36 AM  

Rapmaster2000: the UK should plan its foreign policy for the long-term to match the strategies of other world powers such as Russia

The long-term strategy of Russia is to continually create enemies so that the populace is always terrified.  This allows them to rob the country blind.  It's a mafia state.


The problem is they've taken everything that isn't nailed down and most of what is. So they're trying to take stuff from other people, and those other people don't like it much.
 
2022-11-28 10:20:35 AM  
I completely believe russia is 'planning' for the long-term- for a given value of 'planning'.

Making grandiose plans to dominate the planet militarily, economically, and culturally is less than useless if the 'plans' are based on false premises. The underlying assumptions in Pootie-Poot's 'plan' to invade Ukraine doomed the effort from the start. Any long-term planning russia engages in will invariably trip over the same stupidityness- a bunch of unrealistic assumptions about the actual state of the country and the rest of the world.

Whenever you hear about russia making plans for something, visualize a one-off cartoon from Dragon magazine in the 80s: There are several trolls sitting around talking about their cunning plan. One troll says to the others, "First, we disguises ourselves as paladins and slips past the guards ..."

Russian 'planning' is equally bereft of any grounding in objective reality. Worse, when faced with irrefutable evidence their underlying assumptions are totally wrong in every way, russian 'leaders' refuse to believe it.
 
2022-11-28 10:52:30 AM  
Whatever long term planning capacity the Russian government has is currently busy either fluffing their authoritarian leader or cleaning up after his fark-ups all awhile pretending that he will live forever.
 
2022-11-28 11:06:44 AM  

Halfabee64: RasIanI: Halfabee64: RasIanI: It might help if the Tories didn't churn out 3 PMs in 6 months.

I used to long for a parliamentary system in the US.  After watching Britain and Israel the last few years, I think we need to stick a band-aid on our two dominant party system.

I think ranked choice ballots can serve as that Band-aid -- and getting rid of the EC.

...and corporate money in politics.  PACs are a political abomination.


If they were abolished, plutocrats would still find a myriad of creative ways to influence politics, all they have to do is study the greatest hits of the past. And there's still the media, and now social media, that can be (and are) manipulated by the wealthy.
 
2022-11-28 11:11:26 AM  

Wenchmaster: I completely believe russia is 'planning' for the long-term- for a given value of 'planning'.


IMO the only "long-term" goal of Russia's that they have managed to achieve is to build up a solid foreign reserve balance from their petroleum exports. Well, that and turn the country into a docile kleptocracy (although I suppose it kind of was that already).
 
2022-11-28 11:11:54 AM  
A rich boy bought his way into a job he can't do.

I hope this comment ages like milk.
 
2022-11-28 11:41:30 AM  
As if Brexit was any better planned than the February 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine.
 
2022-11-28 11:46:54 AM  
all that crap about China (or Russia) planning for the long term is just that.
crap.
also Sunak is a muppet and this merely underlines it in my view.
 
2022-11-28 11:48:18 AM  

Ken VeryBigLiar: Is he proposing The Great Leap Forward where they ship Londoners out the West Country to work on collective farms?


Finally, Billy Bragg's wait comes to an end.
 
2022-11-28 11:48:52 AM  

fragMasterFlash: As if Brexit was any better planned than the February 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine.


I mean, it all came from the same place
 
2022-11-28 12:24:24 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: NewportBarGuy: NewportBarGuy: Mister Buttons: While I agree that China is one of the best countries at planning for the long term, that also means missing some short-term shiat that pops up organically. ie. their farked up housing/mortgage crisis and the zero COVID lockdown protests.

I'm not so sure the Chinese Govt. survives this one.

Let me expand on that.

China has created a middle class for the first time ever. Those people are educated and want more sh*t because they have been introduced to the joys and evils of consumer capitalism.

Once you do that... keeping them controlled like lab rats grows almost impossible.

We'll see more of these protests. Not just about Covid, but about a lot of other things.

Complete rubbish. Capitalism and authoritarianism go hand-in-hand.


Capitalism and authoritarianism can go hand in hand but not always. My cousin owns his own Italian bakery in BC, and Canada is far less authoritarian than most countries I've visited (or states I used to live in-looking at you FL)
 
2022-11-28 12:29:29 PM  

Flaming Yawn: Halfabee64: RasIanI: Halfabee64: RasIanI: It might help if the Tories didn't churn out 3 PMs in 6 months.

I used to long for a parliamentary system in the US.  After watching Britain and Israel the last few years, I think we need to stick a band-aid on our two dominant party system.

I think ranked choice ballots can serve as that Band-aid -- and getting rid of the EC.

...and corporate money in politics.  PACs are a political abomination.

If they were abolished, plutocrats would still find a myriad of creative ways to influence politics, all they have to do is study the greatest hits of the past. And there's still the media, and now social media, that can be (and are) manipulated by the wealthy.


All true, but logically that doesn't mean we shouldn't take away as many of those paths to corruption as possible.  That's as silly as a gun rubber saying, "passing gun laws won't stop criminals get guns"-as if that logic doesn't apply to EVERY law up to and including murder.  Strictly limiting PACs is a good start
 
2022-11-28 12:33:28 PM  

Zenith: all that crap about China (or Russia) planning for the long term is just that.
crap.
also Sunak is a muppet and this merely underlines it in my view.


Idk I think a much stronger case can be made for China (for example them slowly, over the last few decades, establishing  bases astride major shipping lanes in the China Seas, and developing much better anti ship missiles).
The idea that Putin has a coherent long term strategy is much more of a stretch.
 
2022-11-28 12:37:54 PM  
Russian plans long term? Bwhahahahahahahahaha what are they going to do stuff bodies into Ukraine until they win like the old soviet strategy?
 
2022-11-28 12:47:38 PM  
It's Monday. I have no inkling that this will be a good week.
 
2022-11-28 1:32:34 PM  

NewportBarGuy: NewportBarGuy: Mister Buttons: While I agree that China is one of the best countries at planning for the long term, that also means missing some short-term shiat that pops up organically. ie. their farked up housing/mortgage crisis and the zero COVID lockdown protests.

I'm not so sure the Chinese Govt. survives this one.

Let me expand on that.

China has created a middle class for the first time ever. Those people are educated and want more sh*t because they have been introduced to the joys and evils of consumer capitalism.

Once you do that... keeping them controlled like lab rats grows almost impossible.

We'll see more of these protests. Not just about Covid, but about a lot of other things.



It's never about freedom.  It's about discount outlet merchandise.
 
2022-11-28 4:19:12 PM  
Everything happens in cycles. There will be ups and there will be downs. Long term planning therefore INCLUDES bad times. So there is nothing to Russia's actions that are inconsistent with long term planning. For instance, Ukraine not being in NATO was a Russian goal. Ukraine is not in NATO. If ten years from now Ukraine is still not in NATO, then Russia's moves make a lot of sense. The thing about long term planning is you can't judge it based on short term results. China is planning to take over Taiwan. Moves that they make in the here and now might seem counter productive and even dumb, but let's see who runs Taiwan in around 2050 before deciding if they had legit long term plans.
 
2022-11-28 4:53:26 PM  

Birnone: Everything happens in cycles. There will be ups and there will be downs.


Roman Empire disagrees
 
2022-11-28 5:58:50 PM  
i don't think subby knows what those words mean.
 
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