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(KTLA Los Angeles)   "Sometimes a thing gets broke, can't be fixed" applies to Firefly compression coils, and ancient symbols corrupted by Nazis   (ktla.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Swastika, Rev. T.K. Nakagaki, New York-based Steven Heller, Buddhist Swastika, symbol of hate, Hitler's symbol, Adolf Hitler's hakenkreuz, symbol  
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4588 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 27 Nov 2022 at 8:41 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-11-27 8:43:46 PM  
As a jew who has had many family members who died in the holocaust and otherwise effected by the Germans, I support this. It would be much better for the swastika to be what it was for thousands of years, a peace symbol.
 
2022-11-27 8:47:49 PM  

hoodiowithtudio: As a jew who has had many family members who died in the holocaust and otherwise effected by the Germans, I support this. It would be much better for the swastika to be what it was for thousands of years, a peace symbol.


As a rando with no religious convictions at all, it's like anything else that's steeped in seriously offensive history.  No, that's not what they meant by it, but in any western country barring people associated with religions that use it, that's what people are going to see.  And if you handwave the ones that are there for religious purposes, it won't be 5 minutes before 1500 rando rednecks nazis put theirs up and claim it's just out of respect to other faiths.  It'll be complete screaming nazi bullshiat, but that is what they will do
 
2022-11-27 8:47:54 PM  
I can see where they're coming from, but at the same time the swastika is like *the* hate symbol in the US (and I suspect in most/all of the anglophone countries + europe, at a minimum.  I don't see this catching on until the majority of those adult populations are people > 1 degree of separation from WW2 (meaning, people who did not directly know people directly involved/affected by the Nazis).  Given generational trauma (I think that's the academic term) expressed in holocaust descendant populations, you might even need to wait an additional degree of separation.
 
2022-11-27 8:48:32 PM  
Deo believes she and people of other faiths should not have to sacrifice or apologize for a sacred symbol simply because it is often conflated with its tainted version.

Deo believes she should not have to sacrifice.   It's not about other people of other faiths.  That's all that is happening here.  Respectful adults realize they can't do things like this.  Entitlement isn't reserved for white girls.
 
2022-11-27 8:49:06 PM  
img.memegenerator.netView Full Size
 
2022-11-27 8:51:02 PM  
I wish them every bit of luck in their endeavor, because an ancient religious symbol shouldn't be sullied by one terrible asshole.

But also because maybe they'll move on to other beautiful things tainted by nazi rule and I'll finally be able to go out in public sporting my stately Chaplin without getting a bunch of weird looks.
 
2022-11-27 8:51:07 PM  
Feel free to display a swastika, I'm going to feel free to assume you are a genocidal douchebag.

That's how free speech works.
 
2022-11-27 8:53:40 PM  
It will be easy to tell what it's displayed for by who displays it.  So for the people who see it as a positive religious symbol, have at it.  If you're offended by those displays, get over it.  Focus on the real problem.
 
2022-11-27 8:55:27 PM  

GhostfacedFiddlah: I wish them every bit of luck in their endeavor, because an ancient religious symbol shouldn't be sullied by one terrible asshole.

But also because maybe they'll move on to other beautiful things tainted by nazi rule and I'll finally be able to go out in public sporting my stately Chaplin without getting a bunch of weird looks.


If you have the hat, cane, and big shoes, you'll be fine. But you have to always have all of it, or else.
 
2022-11-27 8:55:59 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size



It was used in multiple Indian cultures: To the Hopi it represented the wandering Hopi clans; to the Navajo it represented a whirling log ( tsil no'oli' ), a sacred image representing a legend that was used in healing rituals.
 
2022-11-27 8:56:01 PM  
Of course a bunch of white westerners would think their interpretation is the only one that matters.
 
2022-11-27 8:59:44 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Deo believes she and people of other faiths should not have to sacrifice or apologize for a sacred symbol simply because it is often conflated with its tainted version.

Deo believes she should not have to sacrifice.   It's not about other people of other faiths.  That's all that is happening here.  Respectful adults realize they can't do things like this.  Entitlement isn't reserved for white girls.


What the Fark are you babbling about?
 
2022-11-27 9:02:32 PM  

hoodiowithtudio: As a jew who has had many family members who died in the holocaust and otherwise effected by the Germans, I support this. It would be much better for the swastika to be what it was for thousands of years, a peace symbol.


As a man with some German ancestry, I have seen pictures of shining young men in their Nazi uniforms going off to a war that they'd never return from. It was an evil war, it was incredibly stupid, and many people lost their beloved children and fathers and mothers. That was really not what they had in mind. It never is.

You are welcome to try to reclaim the swastika as a peace symbol. If I see it next to a Confederate flag, I will know you are a lying asshole.
 
2022-11-27 9:03:49 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-11-27 9:07:23 PM  
Same thing happens with Futhark runes. Usually with a little artistic twist from the hate crew.

Racist assholes ruin a lot of things just by touching em
 
2022-11-27 9:07:34 PM  

olorin604: Feel free to display a swastika, I'm going to feel free to assume you are a genocidal douchebag.

That's how free speech works.


What  if you see a sign that is clearly Indian decorations, say "Happy Diwali" and includes a swastika?
 
2022-11-27 9:09:20 PM  

big pig peaches: olorin604: Feel free to display a swastika, I'm going to feel free to assume you are a genocidal douchebag.

That's how free speech works.

What  if you see a sign that is clearly Indian decorations, say "Happy Diwali" and includes a swastika?


I'd probably look at my Navajo coworkers and ask if they're taking me to a camp
 
2022-11-27 9:09:57 PM  
The Buddha on Lantau island has a swastika right on the chest, and temples around HK are covered in them. Somehow the Jewish community there has moved past it.
 
2022-11-27 9:13:12 PM  
It's almost like there is a whole world out there that may have different views and experiences.  Go figure.

I still get a good laugh out of the first time my German boyfriend saw a Japanese map, though.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-11-27 9:13:42 PM  
As someone whose heritage was co opted for bigotry, hatred, and fear, I sympathize.  I can't have a flaming cross pendant, which is a United Methodist symbol, except in very, very narrow circumstances.  It used to be three or more flames, encompassing the cross, but now it is strictly limited to two flames in the left side only and the official explanation is that is to represent the uniting of the Methodist church and the United Brethren church.  One of my relatives had a lovely brooch with the older design, but assholes wearing hoods made burning crosses a very hateful visual.  So that little brooch is no longer worn, ever.

Same with a southern heritage.  I'm Georgia born, Georgia bred, and someday I'll be Georgia dead.  But, I don't belong to the Klan, have always thought Gone With the Wind was overwrought bs, and have no interest in seeing the South rise again.  Especially if it rising means I don't get to vote, participate in society, or have body autonomy.

Good luck to all the various groups trying to stop assholes from stealing your past.  We haven't been able to around here, but maybe you'll have more success.
 
2022-11-27 9:14:02 PM  

aperson: Of course a bunch of white westerners would think their interpretation is the only one that matters.


Big 'ol THIS.

Civilizations that predate the West reject the co-opting of a symbol that was stolen from them. I'm not siding with the Nazis and their claim of finders keepers. In every dispute over anything at all, Nazis should EABOD and FOAD. Preferably at gunpoint.
 
2022-11-27 9:15:18 PM  
It would be amazing and powerful for that symbol to reclaim its original significance but man there are still people alive who lived through all that... not many of them, but geez that seems like an assbag thing to ask someone to look the other way about.
 
2022-11-27 9:17:05 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: Rapmaster2000: Deo believes she and people of other faiths should not have to sacrifice or apologize for a sacred symbol simply because it is often conflated with its tainted version.

Deo believes she should not have to sacrifice.   It's not about other people of other faiths.  That's all that is happening here.  Respectful adults realize they can't do things like this.  Entitlement isn't reserved for white girls.

What the Fark are you babbling about?


You're a stupid idiot.  You'll die as you lived, miserable and alone.

Don't be offended.  These are terms of endearment in my culture.
 
2022-11-27 9:18:12 PM  
 
2022-11-27 9:21:56 PM  

cherryl taggart: As someone whose heritage was co opted for bigotry, hatred, and fear, I sympathize.  I can't have a flaming cross pendant, which is a United Methodist symbol, except in very, very narrow circumstances.  It used to be three or more flames, encompassing the cross, but now it is strictly limited to two flames in the left side only and the official explanation is that is to represent the uniting of the Methodist church and the United Brethren church.  One of my relatives had a lovely brooch with the older design, but assholes wearing hoods made burning crosses a very hateful visual.  So that little brooch is no longer worn, ever.

Same with a southern heritage.  I'm Georgia born, Georgia bred, and someday I'll be Georgia dead.  But, I don't belong to the Klan, have always thought Gone With the Wind was overwrought bs, and have no interest in seeing the South rise again.  Especially if it rising means I don't get to vote, participate in society, or have body autonomy.

Good luck to all the various groups trying to stop assholes from stealing your past.  We haven't been able to around here, but maybe you'll have more success.


Meh I grew up methodist. I honestly don't have a problem with most of ya except the moms that catch religion like the cold. So I'm aware of the burning cross. I will say my old pastor did a lot to get supplies to hurricane/tornado/earthquake etc... victims.

Of all the abramic religions and subcults Methodists I generally get along with. There is little push to convert, much less dogma.
 
2022-11-27 9:23:11 PM  
csb

15 years ago, for a few months, in the Philippines mainly but also in Singapore, I saw the swastika more and more everywhere, on carry bags, phone covers etc, then just as quickly faded away.

Part of my brain knew the other context and almost certainly people displaying them were using that context. Though the dominant religion there by a huge margin is catholic and this is a part of the world that has dramatically impacted by WW2, I seethed at their farking ignorance.

/csb

It's okay to display it on temples, as a icon for a temple on a map etc. Outside of that, forget it. Without absolutely clear context, the safe default assumption is it is a hate symbol because that is how it is still often used today. The symbol is not being reappropriated anytime soon.
 
2022-11-27 9:27:16 PM  

Axeofjudgement: cherryl taggart: As someone whose heritage was co opted for bigotry, hatred, and fear, I sympathize.  I can't have a flaming cross pendant, which is a United Methodist symbol, except in very, very narrow circumstances.  It used to be three or more flames, encompassing the cross, but now it is strictly limited to two flames in the left side only and the official explanation is that is to represent the uniting of the Methodist church and the United Brethren church.  One of my relatives had a lovely brooch with the older design, but assholes wearing hoods made burning crosses a very hateful visual.  So that little brooch is no longer worn, ever.

Same with a southern heritage.  I'm Georgia born, Georgia bred, and someday I'll be Georgia dead.  But, I don't belong to the Klan, have always thought Gone With the Wind was overwrought bs, and have no interest in seeing the South rise again.  Especially if it rising means I don't get to vote, participate in society, or have body autonomy.

Good luck to all the various groups trying to stop assholes from stealing your past.  We haven't been able to around here, but maybe you'll have more success.

Meh I grew up methodist. I honestly don't have a problem with most of ya except the moms that catch religion like the cold. So I'm aware of the burning cross. I will say my old pastor did a lot to get supplies to hurricane/tornado/earthquake etc... victims.

Of all the abramic religions and subcults Methodists I generally get along with. There is little push to convert, much less dogma.


Everywhere I have lived, the Methodists have functioned as a wealthy businessman's club.  There is a beautiful antebellum Methodist church within walking distance of my house, and I have thought of joining just for the business connections.  The lot on Sunday is crammed with Porsches.

Alas, I'm Lutheran and so is my wife so we do that.  It's not so bad.  We have our own financial planning arm.
 
2022-11-27 9:28:14 PM  
There's a word that means "reluctant to give or spend; stingy; miserly." Perfectly cromulent word.

Unfortunately, it sounds remarkably similar to a word that is not  perfectly cromulent.

If you use the cromulent one, you're going to run into a.) people who mishear you as saying the non-cromulent word and/or b.) people who are ignorant of the existence of the cromulent word and assume you're just super-super-racist.

It's not worth the hassle of explaining yourself to group a, or the frustration of trying to educate group b in the theory and practice of dictionaries.

Sometimes the most adaptive move is to just find a different word (or symbol) and move on with your life.
 
2022-11-27 9:28:23 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


It is disconcerting a bit to come upon it being paraded down the streets of SF in front of Pier 31.  Makes further awkward conversation when you figure out it is being paraded by a controversial group like the Fulan Gong.
 
2022-11-27 9:28:28 PM  
It should be redeemed but the people wishing to do so just need to be patient.  Wait for 100 years from now and then redeem the symbol.  By that time any survivors of the Holocaust, their children, their grandchildren and their great-grandchildren will all be dead.
 
2022-11-27 9:28:57 PM  
Unfortunately, Westerners have been socialized to view the swastika as a symbol of hate.
 
2022-11-27 9:31:20 PM  
The western point of view is the only point of view.

Cultural hegemony must be achieved.
 
2022-11-27 9:33:12 PM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: hoodiowithtudio: As a jew who has had many family members who died in the holocaust and otherwise effected by the Germans, I support this. It would be much better for the swastika to be what it was for thousands of years, a peace symbol.

As a rando with no religious convictions at all, it's like anything else that's steeped in seriously offensive history.  No, that's not what they meant by it, but in any western country barring people associated with religions that use it, that's what people are going to see.  And if you handwave the ones that are there for religious purposes, it won't be 5 minutes before 1500 rando rednecks nazis put theirs up and claim it's just out of respect to other faiths.  It'll be complete screaming nazi bullshiat, but that is what they will do


How about you mind your own business and let these people do what they want.
 
2022-11-27 9:33:48 PM  

Chthonic Echoes: There's a word that means "reluctant to give or spend; stingy; miserly." Perfectly cromulent word.

Unfortunately, it sounds remarkably similar to a word that is not  perfectly cromulent.

If you use the cromulent one, you're going to run into a.) people who mishear you as saying the non-cromulent word and/or b.) people who are ignorant of the existence of the cromulent word and assume you're just super-super-racist.

It's not worth the hassle of explaining yourself to group a, or the frustration of trying to educate group b in the theory and practice of dictionaries.

Sometimes the most adaptive move is to just find a different word (or symbol) and move on with your life.


That.... sums up Christianity. Wait till you see the private catholic and Jesuit schools.

Stairway to heaven man!
 
2022-11-27 9:33:51 PM  

Lorelle: Unfortunately, Westerners have been socialized to view the swastika as a symbol of hate.


Unfortunately, 40 to 50 million people including 600,000 Americans died between 1937 and 1945 to make that socialization happen.
 
2022-11-27 9:34:25 PM  

Axeofjudgement: Chthonic Echoes: There's a word that means "reluctant to give or spend; stingy; miserly." Perfectly cromulent word.

Unfortunately, it sounds remarkably similar to a word that is not  perfectly cromulent.

If you use the cromulent one, you're going to run into a.) people who mishear you as saying the non-cromulent word and/or b.) people who are ignorant of the existence of the cromulent word and assume you're just super-super-racist.

It's not worth the hassle of explaining yourself to group a, or the frustration of trying to educate group b in the theory and practice of dictionaries.

Sometimes the most adaptive move is to just find a different word (or symbol) and move on with your life.

That.... sums up Christianity. Wait till you see the private catholic and Jesuit schools.

Stairway to heaven man!


fark me wrong reply
 
2022-11-27 9:34:48 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Axeofjudgement: cherryl taggart: As someone whose heritage was co opted for bigotry, hatred, and fear, I sympathize.  I can't have a flaming cross pendant, which is a United Methodist symbol, except in very, very narrow circumstances.  It used to be three or more flames, encompassing the cross, but now it is strictly limited to two flames in the left side only and the official explanation is that is to represent the uniting of the Methodist church and the United Brethren church.  One of my relatives had a lovely brooch with the older design, but assholes wearing hoods made burning crosses a very hateful visual.  So that little brooch is no longer worn, ever.

Same with a southern heritage.  I'm Georgia born, Georgia bred, and someday I'll be Georgia dead.  But, I don't belong to the Klan, have always thought Gone With the Wind was overwrought bs, and have no interest in seeing the South rise again.  Especially if it rising means I don't get to vote, participate in society, or have body autonomy.

Good luck to all the various groups trying to stop assholes from stealing your past.  We haven't been able to around here, but maybe you'll have more success.

Meh I grew up methodist. I honestly don't have a problem with most of ya except the moms that catch religion like the cold. So I'm aware of the burning cross. I will say my old pastor did a lot to get supplies to hurricane/tornado/earthquake etc... victims.

Of all the abramic religions and subcults Methodists I generally get along with. There is little push to convert, much less dogma.

Everywhere I have lived, the Methodists have functioned as a wealthy businessman's club.  There is a beautiful antebellum Methodist church within walking distance of my house, and I have thought of joining just for the business connections.  The lot on Sunday is crammed with Porsches.

Alas, I'm Lutheran and so is my wife so we do that.  It's not so bad.  We have our own financial planning arm.


That.... sums up Christianity. Wait till you see the private catholic and Jesuit schools.

Stairway to heaven man!
 
2022-11-27 9:36:01 PM  
White supremacist ass hats ruin everything they touch. Like the OK sign. In SCUBA diving we use that as the sign for "OK" (go figure). But now the ignorant trash is taking that too.

/the most useless part of society in every way.
 
2022-11-27 9:38:48 PM  

lizaardvark: hoodiowithtudio: As a jew who has had many family members who died in the holocaust and otherwise effected by the Germans, I support this. It would be much better for the swastika to be what it was for thousands of years, a peace symbol.

As a man with some German ancestry, I have seen pictures of shining young men in their Nazi uniforms going off to a war that they'd never return from. It was an evil war, it was incredibly stupid, and many people lost their beloved children and fathers and mothers. That was really not what they had in mind. It never is.

You are welcome to try to reclaim the swastika as a peace symbol. If I see it next to a Confederate flag, I will know you are a lying asshole.


LOL, fark the confederacy
 
2022-11-27 9:38:52 PM  
Denver International had a similar problem so they tossed in an extra runway.
 
2022-11-27 9:39:15 PM  
They are coming for the Manx symbol next because it was used by an antifa-woke® on Fark.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-11-27 9:42:20 PM  

RandyJohnson: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: hoodiowithtudio: As a jew who has had many family members who died in the holocaust and otherwise effected by the Germans, I support this. It would be much better for the swastika to be what it was for thousands of years, a peace symbol.

As a rando with no religious convictions at all, it's like anything else that's steeped in seriously offensive history.  No, that's not what they meant by it, but in any western country barring people associated with religions that use it, that's what people are going to see.  And if you handwave the ones that are there for religious purposes, it won't be 5 minutes before 1500 rando rednecks nazis put theirs up and claim it's just out of respect to other faiths.  It'll be complete screaming nazi bullshiat, but that is what they will do

How about you mind your own business and let these people do what they want.


So what's your solution when every peckerwood asshole in the country puts one up?
 
2022-11-27 9:47:57 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Deo believes she and people of other faiths should not have to sacrifice or apologize for a sacred symbol simply because it is often conflated with its tainted version.

Deo believes she should not have to sacrifice.   It's not about other people of other faiths.  That's all that is happening here.  Respectful adults realize they can't do things like this.  Entitlement isn't reserved for white girls.


Privilege is not having your holy symbols stolen from you by creeps.
 
2022-11-27 9:49:41 PM  

Axeofjudgement: Same thing happens with Futhark runes. Usually with a little artistic twist from the hate crew.

Racist assholes ruin a lot of things just by touching em


It's not news, it's Futhark
 
2022-11-27 9:51:06 PM  
I like the people acting like the Holocaust was just some silly little white people skirmish.
 
2022-11-27 9:51:40 PM  
And we'll all be slightly less efficient at sectioning off square areas because of it. Thanks for the inconvenient library carrels, Hitler.
 
2022-11-27 9:52:39 PM  
Some Junkie Cosmonaut:  So what's your solution when every peckerwood asshole in the country puts one up?

Laugh and tell them "Hey buddy, your manji is backwards"
 
2022-11-27 9:53:30 PM  

lizaardvark: hoodiowithtudio: As a jew who has had many family members who died in the holocaust and otherwise effected by the Germans, I support this. It would be much better for the swastika to be what it was for thousands of years, a peace symbol.

As a man with some German ancestry, I have seen pictures of shining young men in their Nazi uniforms going off to a war that they'd never return from. It was an evil war, it was incredibly stupid, and many people lost their beloved children and fathers and mothers. That was really not what they had in mind. It never is.

You are welcome to try to reclaim the swastika as a peace symbol. If I see it next to a Confederate flag, I will know you are a lying asshole.


Oh ho my this.

And for the record, the sort of hateful creep who dishonestly flies a swastika will not be able to help themselves from having a confederate flag or other hate symbol. It's like Roger Rabbit hearing the "shave and a haircut" tap.
Just like you can out every motherfarker with a vanity plate that has 1488 on it because it will be a jet black Ford f-150 tricked out and with "Blue Lives Matter" Punisher skull stickers, a Gadsden flag plate, and molon labe somewhere on the vehicle too.
 
2022-11-27 9:54:12 PM  
A bought a token on eBay from a local (before the war) Jewish clothier. The back of the token was mostly a swastika. The sale got cancelled. I never got a reason. A little while later I found another one and the sale went through. The listing on that one didn't play up the swastika as much.
 
2022-11-27 9:56:31 PM  

sidailurch: White supremacist ass hats ruin everything they touch. Like the OK sign. In SCUBA diving we use that as the sign for "OK" (go figure). But now the ignorant trash is taking that too.

/the most useless part of society in every way.


I refuse to permit this
 
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