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(Metro)   "I tried to open an affordable daycare. There's no such thing, I learned"   (metro.co.uk) divider line
    More: Awkward, Nanny, The Doors, most expensive childcare sectors, co-working nursery, sense of failure, little children, huge sense of loss, Early Years education  
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1816 clicks; posted to Business » on 27 Nov 2022 at 12:48 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



50 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-11-27 9:21:01 AM  
The nursery and co-working space were in the same building but had separate entrances, which meant that parents were able to go into the nursery to breastfeed or put their little ones down.


seems a bit harsh
 
2022-11-27 9:24:17 AM  
What the hell is this, a tabloid rag writing a thoughtful readable article?
 
2022-11-27 10:12:05 AM  
Damn those Government regulations.
Well, back my day...they'd just get a chain link fence and briefly remove the dogs and put in the kids.
Heck you could save by using the same feeding dishes but fill them with chips. And then toss over some pudding cups, slightly warm fish sticks and chicken nuggets.

Then the Government had to get involved...and complained about no veggies, milk, shelter from the rain. BOoo Hoo Hoo....bunch of snowflakes.
 
2022-11-27 10:26:16 AM  
Notably missing from the article: why the project was not viable (other than Covid)
 
2022-11-27 10:34:29 AM  
Andrew Yang was thinking in the right direction when he described the situation that required his wife to leave the workforce to care for their autistic child. Maybe it's time to set aside the comic TV tropes: the idea that a homemaker is a lazy, entitled Peg Bundy eating ice cream bon-bons while her house is a mess and the family goes hungry. Maybe we should set aside our bigoted notions that only a female can be the stay at home parent or that only straight parents can have a stay at home parent.

The reality is that the stay at home parent often slides into being stay at home hospice care for aging grandparents; stay at home, round the clock, nursing home care for aging parents; then, the stay at home child care for their own grandchildren. And those are the lucky families that can afford to have someone at home versus being forced by financial circumstances to leave children in the care of an 11 year old or in the care of some chain-smoking, dotty old bat who runs a "home daycare" out of her shack fronting  a major highway.

It's time to recognize that some families have a Mom and a Dad, some have two Dads, some have two Moms. Then, let's recognize the incredible amount of hard work that goes into proper child rearing. Let's incentivize families raising their own families. Let's pay every stay at home parent (regardless of gender or sexual orientation) $1,000 per month. Let's ensure that they can draw enough in social security to retire in their own homes with a decent, though modest, standard of living. Let's pass a law prohibiting discrimination against parents returning to the work force that has real teeth so individuals aren't terrified of what might befall them if they leave the work force for a decade. Let's provide M4A so that more parents can afford to work part-time, during school hours.

Let's look for ways to relieve the grinding pressure on families and implement those solutions.
 
2022-11-27 10:49:46 AM  

optikeye: Damn those Government regulations.
Well, back my day...they'd just get a chain link fence and briefly remove the dogs and put in the kids.
Heck you could save by using the same feeding dishes but fill them with chips. And then toss over some pudding cups, slightly warm fish sticks and chicken nuggets.

Then the Government had to get involved...and complained about no veggies, milk, shelter from the rain. BOoo Hoo Hoo....bunch of snowflakes.


This post is hilarious. The more so because my mother's would eventually own a daycare, but she began by keeping children in her own home before there were any regulations on doing so. Like the lady in the article, she went into childcare so she could raise her own kids while earning income. She trained her dog to herd children away from the road while she saved for a fence. It would even grab toddlers by their diapers and drag them back from the road. I was still very young when she purchased the fence. So, that's almost all that I remember about that dog.

Prior to regulations, my mother cared for 12 to 14 children at a time including my siblings and I. Babies and toddlers usually stayed in the house with her except for two or three specific times of the day when she took them out to play outside. Anyone four or older were locked out of the house. If we had to use the restroom, we had to knock on the door. She would crack the door, look out with one eye, and ask "what?" We had to go straight to the restroom and back out again. We were allowed in for meals, for illness, and inclement weather.

In her defense, keeping us all outside for hours wasn't entirely about keeping her house sanitary. (A physician could have safely performed surgery in any room of the house.) She really believed it was healthier for children to spend the majority of their time outdoors. Many times she expressed genuine concern, even sorrow, for children "trapped" in apartments with little to no safe place to play outside on a regular basis. When the number of kids diagnosed with ADHD began to climb in this country, she was convinced most of the children with that diagnosis were simply deprived of sufficient outdoor time.

So, yeah, your satire was largely her truth.
 
2022-11-27 11:47:30 AM  
Remember when daycare started in the US? How there were little old ladies being locked up as Satanic pedophiles? Yeah. Good thing that we grew ou....oh. Nevermind.
 
2022-11-27 12:22:28 PM  
Daycare is simultaneously too expensive and too cheap.

You get the bill at the end of the month and you think "Holy shiat, daycare is expensive"

And then you do the math and you think "My kid should really be watched by professionals that make more than these poor bastards, right?"
 
2022-11-27 12:58:51 PM  
It would be nice if one person could earn enough to afford housing, then one parent could stay home and raise the kids.

Affordable housing would solve a lot of society's problems.
 
2022-11-27 1:26:55 PM  

SoupGuru: Daycare is simultaneously too expensive and too cheap.

You get the bill at the end of the month and you think "Holy shiat, daycare is expensive"

And then you do the math and you think "My kid should really be watched by professionals that make more than these poor bastards, right?"


Yep, $1000 a month for 2.5-5 year olds will basically cover minimum wage for staff.
 
2022-11-27 1:28:32 PM  

optikeye: Damn those Government regulations.


You have to look for the loopholes.

If you open a DAYCARE the state is all up in your business about numbers of staff, the maximum number of kids you can care for, and all sorts of safety requirements. My mom was in the child care business and knew all about it.

Then, my mom notices some summer sports camps operating out of people's homes. It was kids doing baseball sports camps, or football sports camps. Whatever it was, the numbers of kids being cared for was way over the limit and my mom also questioned whether their homes were inspected for all the stuff as required in any other daycare.

With one phone call to the state, turns out sports camps are exempt from everything. As long as the "daycare" includes instructional activities aimed at sports, you get a pass on everything. No maximum number of kids, no minimum staff requirements, no home inspections, none of that stuff.
 
2022-11-27 1:31:24 PM  

Mangoose: Remember when daycare started in the US? How there were little old ladies being locked up as Satanic pedophiles?


Yep, and it was also helped along by blaming working mothers. We dumped on them for NOT EVEN RAISING THEIR OWN CHILDREN and instead leaving them with complete strangers. All the "stranger danger" panic was multiplied and focused through that.
 
2022-11-27 1:46:53 PM  
Nannies cost £12 an hour


That's very inexpensive.
 
2022-11-27 2:15:24 PM  

Mangoose: Remember when daycare started in the US? How there were little old ladies being locked up as Satanic pedophiles? Yeah. Good thing that we grew ou....oh. Nevermind.


They never did find that Giraffe in the Flying Saucer. Long necked pervert. I Believe the Children.
 
2022-11-27 2:19:11 PM  
Missing from the article: Any analysis of why costs are high.

Present in the article: A pitch for the writer's new company

Par for the course.
 
2022-11-27 2:27:53 PM  
The idea for Cuckooz Nest

Really? You're going to name your daycare after an invasive species that deliberately and systematically kills its nest mates in order to monopolize feeding cycles?

That's like opening a butcher shop and calling it Dahmer's Meats
 
2022-11-27 2:47:54 PM  
I was on the board of the daycare at my school for a number of years so got very informed about the finances of such places.

Yeah. It's not possible.  We always got complaints that the childcare there was great but unaffordable. But we were a non profit with a pretty cheap mortgage on the building we were in.  Literally 75%+ of the costs were salaries of the workers- we had to scrounge money for playground equipment and if we hadn't run our summer camp for older kids we would have been in the red.

At that was with criminally underpaying the workers-it's tough to keep them when can can't pay more than McDonald's.
 
2022-11-27 2:49:06 PM  

Bruscar: Andrew Yang was thinking in the right direction when he described the situation that required his wife to leave the workforce to care for their autistic child. Maybe it's time to set aside the comic TV tropes: the idea that a homemaker is a lazy, entitled Peg Bundy eating ice cream bon-bons while her house is a mess and the family goes hungry. Maybe we should set aside our bigoted notions that only a female can be the stay at home parent or that only straight parents can have a stay at home parent.
The reality is that the stay at home parent often slides into being stay at home hospice care for aging grandparents; stay at home, round the clock, nursing home care for aging parents; then, the stay at home child care for their own grandchildren. And those are the lucky families that can afford to have someone at home versus being forced by financial circumstances to leave children in the care of an 11 year old or in the care of some chain-smoking, dotty old bat who runs a "home daycare" out of her shack fronting  a major highway.
It's time to recognize that some families have a Mom and a Dad, some have two Dads, some have two Moms. Then, let's recognize the incredible amount of hard work that goes into proper child rearing. Let's incentivize families raising their own families. Let's pay every stay at home parent (regardless of gender or sexual orientation) $1,000 per month. Let's ensure that they can draw enough in social security to retire in their own homes with a decent, though modest, standard of living. Let's pass a law prohibiting discrimination against parents returning to the work force that has real teeth so individuals aren't terrified of what might befall them if they leave the work force for a decade. Let's provide M4A so that more parents can afford to work part-time, during school hours.
Let's look for ways to relieve the grinding pressure on families and implement those solutions.


Or maybe you have to make a choice, and do with less.  Maybe the government isn't supposed to reimburse us for our personal decisions to use more and spend more  than we need.  The government should  not be reimbursing us for having children, even if it would make their hearts swell with patriotism.

No moms worked outside the home when I was young, or very few of them.  And yet we all survived.  somehow humanity made it all this way without both parents working for financial gain, unless they're in Pakistan, and even then, those kids aren't in daycare.

But suddenly, we NEED government subsidies just to live our lives, our ordinary lives. Even if we have money.  It's bad enough that we have to have food stamps for people who are fully employed, but now we've worked up the chain, and people who are doing very well, by any standards, now need constant government help just to live.

That's not rational and it's not going to work, I don't care how special you think your life and career is.  You don't get to have it all.  Get over it.
 
2022-11-27 2:49:46 PM  

mrmopar5287: optikeye: Damn those Government regulations.

You have to look for the loopholes.

If you open a DAYCARE the state is all up in your business about numbers of staff, the maximum number of kids you can care for, and all sorts of safety requirements. My mom was in the child care business and knew all about it.

Then, my mom notices some summer sports camps operating out of people's homes. It was kids doing baseball sports camps, or football sports camps. Whatever it was, the numbers of kids being cared for was way over the limit and my mom also questioned whether their homes were inspected for all the stuff as required in any other daycare.

With one phone call to the state, turns out sports camps are exempt from everything. As long as the "daycare" includes instructional activities aimed at sports, you get a pass on everything. No maximum number of kids, no minimum staff requirements, no home inspections, none of that stuff.


Heh. "It's not daycare [points to soccer ball in midst of toddlers] it's a Sports Camp!"
State inspector slinks away, "My mistake. Have a nice day!"

Daycare should be federally subsidised. Better yet, paid for by employers.
 
2022-11-27 2:55:10 PM  

cryinoutloud: But suddenly, we NEED government subsidies just to live our lives, our ordinary lives. Even if we have money.  It's bad enough that we have to have food stamps for people who are fully employed, but now we've worked up the chain, and people who are doing very well, by any standards, now need constant government help just to live.


If minimum wage had kept pace with inflation and productivity gains it would be like $25 an hour now.
 
2022-11-27 2:59:16 PM  

cryinoutloud: .  Bruscar: Andrew Yang was thinking in the right direction when he described the situation that required his wife to leave the workforce to care for their autistic child. Maybe it's time to set aside the comic TV tropes: the idea that a homemaker is a lazy, entitled Peg Bundy eating ice cream bon-bons while her house is a mess and the family goes hungry. Maybe we should set aside our bigoted notions that only a female can be the stay at home parent or that only straight parents can have a stay at home parent.
The reality is that the stay at home parent often slides into being stay at home hospice care for aging grandparents; stay at home, round the clock, nursing home care for aging parents; then, the stay at home child care for their own grandchildren. And those are the lucky families that can afford to have someone at home versus being forced by financial circumstances to leave children in the care of an 11 year old or in the care of some chain-smoking, dotty old bat who runs a "home daycare" out of her shack fronting  a major highway.
It's time to recognize that some families have a Mom and a Dad, some have two Dads, some have two Moms. Then, let's recognize the incredible amount of hard work that goes into proper child rearing. Let's incentivize families raising their own families. Let's pay every stay at home parent (regardless of gender or sexual orientation) $1,000 per month. Let's ensure that they can draw enough in social security to retire in their own homes with a decent, though modest, standard of living. Let's pass a law prohibiting discrimination against parents returning to the work force that has real teeth so individuals aren't terrified of what might befall them if they leave the work force for a decade. Let's provide M4A so that more parents can afford to work part-time, during school hours.
Let's look for ways to relieve the grinding pressure on families and implement those solutions.

Or maybe you have to make a choice, and do with less.  Maybe ...


Without children, the human race would end.
 
2022-11-27 3:01:27 PM  

Ishkur: The idea for Cuckooz Nest

Really? You're going to name your daycare after an invasive species that deliberately and systematically kills its nest mates in order to monopolize feeding cycles?

That's like opening a butcher shop and calling it Dahmer's Meats


And here I thought they had named it after one of the greatest movies of all time, which won a ton of Oscars, Golden Globes and BAFTAs... and seems a lot more relevant to the typical daycare.
 
2022-11-27 3:08:58 PM  

cryinoutloud: r maybe you have to make a choice, and do with less. Maybe the government isn't supposed to reimburse us for our personal decisions to use more and spend more than we need. The government should not be reimbursing us for having children, even if it would make their hearts swell with patriotism.

No moms worked outside the home when I was young, or very few of them. And yet we all survived. somehow humanity made it all this way without both parents working for financial gain, unless they're in Pakistan, and even then, those kids aren't in daycare.

But suddenl


Look up the current salary for what your father did when you were growing up. Then make a budget for a family that has everything you had growing up.
 
2022-11-27 3:24:23 PM  

cryinoutloud: .  Bruscar: Andrew Yang was thinking in the right direction when he described the situation that required his wife to leave the workforce to care for their autistic child. Maybe it's time to set aside the comic TV tropes: the idea that a homemaker is a lazy, entitled Peg Bundy eating ice cream bon-bons while her house is a mess and the family goes hungry. Maybe we should set aside our bigoted notions that only a female can be the stay at home parent or that only straight parents can have a stay at home parent.
The reality is that the stay at home parent often slides into being stay at home hospice care for aging grandparents; stay at home, round the clock, nursing home care for aging parents; then, the stay at home child care for their own grandchildren. And those are the lucky families that can afford to have someone at home versus being forced by financial circumstances to leave children in the care of an 11 year old or in the care of some chain-smoking, dotty old bat who runs a "home daycare" out of her shack fronting  a major highway.
It's time to recognize that some families have a Mom and a Dad, some have two Dads, some have two Moms. Then, let's recognize the incredible amount of hard work that goes into proper child rearing. Let's incentivize families raising their own families. Let's pay every stay at home parent (regardless of gender or sexual orientation) $1,000 per month. Let's ensure that they can draw enough in social security to retire in their own homes with a decent, though modest, standard of living. Let's pass a law prohibiting discrimination against parents returning to the work force that has real teeth so individuals aren't terrified of what might befall them if they leave the work force for a decade. Let's provide M4A so that more parents can afford to work part-time, during school hours.
Let's look for ways to relieve the grinding pressure on families and implement those solutions.

Or maybe you have to make a choice, and do with less.  Maybe ...


Double everyone's salary without any price increases or slash the prices of everything 50% without cutting pay and we can go back to your magical fairy tale.  Because in today's extractive economy what you grew up in (and I experienced for a while) just can't happen today.

Basically you are blaming the victims here.
 
2022-11-27 3:26:36 PM  

HempHead: cryinoutloud: .  Bruscar: Andrew Yang was thinking in the right direction when he described the situation that required his wife to leave the workforce to care for their autistic child. Maybe it's time to set aside the comic TV tropes: the idea that a homemaker is a lazy, entitled Peg Bundy eating ice cream bon-bons while her house is a mess and the family goes hungry. Maybe we should set aside our bigoted notions that only a female can be the stay at home parent or that only straight parents can have a stay at home parent.
The reality is that the stay at home parent often slides into being stay at home hospice care for aging grandparents; stay at home, round the clock, nursing home care for aging parents; then, the stay at home child care for their own grandchildren. And those are the lucky families that can afford to have someone at home versus being forced by financial circumstances to leave children in the care of an 11 year old or in the care of some chain-smoking, dotty old bat who runs a "home daycare" out of her shack fronting  a major highway.
It's time to recognize that some families have a Mom and a Dad, some have two Dads, some have two Moms. Then, let's recognize the incredible amount of hard work that goes into proper child rearing. Let's incentivize families raising their own families. Let's pay every stay at home parent (regardless of gender or sexual orientation) $1,000 per month. Let's ensure that they can draw enough in social security to retire in their own homes with a decent, though modest, standard of living. Let's pass a law prohibiting discrimination against parents returning to the work force that has real teeth so individuals aren't terrified of what might befall them if they leave the work force for a decade. Let's provide M4A so that more parents can afford to work part-time, during school hours.
Let's look for ways to relieve the grinding pressure on families and implement those solutions.

Or maybe you have to make a choice, and do with less.  Maybe ...

Without children, the human race would end.


The Giasphere is dying.  We have too many people.  Using up carbon and phosphorus and nitrogen.....

We need a population reduction.  The guide stones say we have to get down to half a billion.
 
2022-11-27 3:59:08 PM  

SoundOfOneHandWanking: The nursery and co-working space were in the same building but had separate entrances, which meant that parents were able to go into the nursery to breastfeed or put their little ones down.


seems a bit harsh


You don't know man, you haven't been in the trenches with the rest of us parents... sometimes you just have to make choices you know... it's not easy but we all need a nap every now and then.
 
2022-11-27 4:07:39 PM  
Then, let's recognize the incredible amount of hard work that goes into proper child rearing. Let's incentivize families raising their own families. Let's pay every stay at home parent (regardless of gender or sexual orientation) $1,000 per month.

How about a one time cash payment in return for sterilization? Or a monthly payment for mandatory contraception? The world doesn't need your children, stop trying to make us pay for them.
 
2022-11-27 4:12:33 PM  

Chabash: SoupGuru: Daycare is simultaneously too expensive and too cheap.

You get the bill at the end of the month and you think "Holy shiat, daycare is expensive"

And then you do the math and you think "My kid should really be watched by professionals that make more than these poor bastards, right?"

Yep, $1000 a month for 2.5-5 year olds will basically cover minimum wage for staff.


Worth noting that most day cares has more than 1 child to adult. So add a few more kids and you can get them to a decent wage assuming you can also pay for your overhead and other costs which can be a real drag since day care isn't exactly the most profitable use of land/buildings.

Assuming 4-5 kids per adult for infants or maybe a couple more for toddler+ and you can pay a living wage plus cover some overhead without creating safety concerns assuming the children are all contained to an area where they can be clearly observed.

The challenge is scheduling and getting enough clients to maintain a stable flow of income to sustain your staff especially with the flexibility needed since not every parent works consistent hours or schedules. Making sure you have enough employees on hand for morning drop offs or evening pickups means having some redundancy. Often times this leads to over-scheduling staff or unplanned overtime when parents need that extra hour in the evening. Any minor adjustment to clients means leaving staff at home or not having enough income to cover your overhead. None of which even begins to cover sickness by workers or children which often leaves you either short staffed or short on clients for the week.

Childcare is a blessing, but managing a successful childcare business is probably extremely exhausting. It can be done but it's not hard to see why it's so expensive even when you can split the cost of labor between multiple clients.
 
2022-11-27 4:18:07 PM  
You can make daycare affordable; you've just got to monetize the kids.  Rent out the ugly ones to carnival freak show and put the attractive ones on OnlyFans.  Take that money and apply it to the cost of their daycare.  Parents will love you for making it more affordable for them.
 
2022-11-27 4:52:30 PM  

psychosis_inducing: Look up the current salary for what your father did when you were growing up. Then make a budget for a family that has everything you had growing up.


We grew into lives of excess. No one had cable TV when my mom was young - you were lucky to have a B&W TV and rich if you had a color TV. Each household in the neighborhood had one car - my grandparents had TWO cars and that was unusual. The middle class sign of luxury was an upright piano in the front room and music lessons. Learning music as leisure meant your family was solidly middle class.

Now? We have houses with multiple TVs (yes, they are cheaper relatively speaking) and cable TV for all of them. Add internet to every device in the house and all the computers, tablets, video games, and everyone has a cel phone. Streaming services for all of those electronics. Then, multiple cars parked at every house - every kid has their own car now!

Any gains in income are gobbled up with discretionary spending on these things.
 
2022-11-27 5:12:47 PM  
Childcare is why my husband hasn't worked since our oldest was about a year old.  I was going to school at the time so we had a regular person to come and stay with the kid, which was cheaper than 1 - 2k a month at a real daycare.  Her behavior was odd, but we could afford her almost daily.  Then one day there was an unexplainable burn on the back of my kid's leg. My husband quit his job and has been home ever since.  Oddly enough (or not, if you're familiar with pricing), our lifestyle has barely changed.  The majority of one salary or another isn't going to childcare and we're not scrambling for holiday or sickness coverage.  Since both kids are in school now, I feel like he'd be happier to get back out and socialize with grown ups, at least during the school day.  He's adamant that he'll never have a competitive place in the job market again and doesn't want to work a 'mc job'.  Perhaps not, but stay at home moms have been dealing with that one for centuries.
 
2022-11-27 5:50:55 PM  
Improve automation and start rampingup UBI. Ban all parents from work until their children are finished with high school.
No more need for expensive daycare and the birth rate will plummet and vasectomy rates will skyrocket.
 
2022-11-27 5:51:42 PM  
Just do as I do and run an unlicensed daycare in your basement. If your prices are cheap enough, the parents won't ask no questions.
 
2022-11-27 5:54:31 PM  

mrmopar5287: Mangoose: Remember when daycare started in the US? How there were little old ladies being locked up as Satanic pedophiles?

Yep, and it was also helped along by blaming working mothers. We dumped on them for NOT EVEN RAISING THEIR OWN CHILDREN and instead leaving them with complete strangers. All the "stranger danger" panic was multiplied and focused through that.


That's what prompted my mother to sell her daycare. She had a friend who was absolutely destroyed by false allegations from parents who refused to pay their bill and had refused to pay their bill at several local daycare centers. Her friend and her friends' entire staff were ruined before their names were cleared.
 
2022-11-27 6:01:01 PM  
Any business that people secretively (or blatantly) resent having to pay for is always a royal PITA for collections. Rent, car payments, child support, there are a myriad of things people will do anything to get out of paying for.
 
2022-11-27 7:01:20 PM  

Bruscar: refused to pay their bill and had refused to pay their bill at several local daycare centers


With the daycare that my mother was the director, she solved this problem with cash customers by making payment for the week due in advance. Most were on government assistance so the state paid the bill, but a few were cash customers.

Payment was due in advance and the grace period was Monday and Tuesday in a regular week. If you don't have cash in hand on Wednesday morning or afternoon (depending on if you had AM care, PM care, or all-day care) your child was off the roster.

The single anecdote I can tell you for this was a parent that thought my mom was bluffing and would let it slide. She dropped her kid off one Wednesday morning, was told the kid was off the roster, and she dropped the kid at the front entrance anyway. After the mom left my mother called police and told them that the child was abandoned, was not on the roster for child care, and could not be accommodated because they were full with the maximum number of children allowed. That last part was a lie, but was a legitimate reason that you can't have an extra kid in daycare - the state has caps on the number of kids you can have.

The result was child services called and criminal charges for child abandonment because the mom dumped a kid in the front yard of a daycare where her child was not enrolled. The criminal charges were later withdrawn in a plea agreement.

The best result was once that story circulated of what happened to the mom the cases of people trying to not pay NEVER. HAPPENED. AGAIN.
 
2022-11-27 7:22:40 PM  

SoundOfOneHandWanking: The nursery and co-working space were in the same building but had separate entrances, which meant that parents were able to go into the nursery to breastfeed or put their little ones down.


seems a bit harsh


Harsh? Yes
Appropriate? Yes
 
2022-11-27 7:44:12 PM  
Sorry, I'm confused about why someone who works for themselves and can work from home needs either a co-working space OR childcare. Don't want to miss magic moments? Cool! Put the crib in the office. And don't worry, your 6-week-old darling baby will be perfectly fine if they aren't getting immersive mandarin lessons while you co-work.
 
2022-11-27 7:48:24 PM  
I assume a handful of bad actors have ruined it for everyone because of regulations created in the wake of children being hurt or worse.

I went to a program at a nearby church (non-religious). My parents said it was really cheap, that the church was just trying to find ways to utilize its spaces during the weekdays. My guess is that it could never operate as it did under today's regulations.
 
2022-11-27 7:52:32 PM  

Lusiphur: Sorry, I'm confused about why someone who works for themselves and can work from home needs either a co-working space OR childcare. Don't want to miss magic moments? Cool! Put the crib in the office. And don't worry, your 6-week-old darling baby will be perfectly fine if they aren't getting immersive mandarin lessons while you co-work.


Not sure if you're serious or not.

Watching young children while working from home really doesn't work. Kids need to be monitored constantly, and there are times that you must attend to them.

During the pandemic when day cares were closed, it really stressed out my coworkers. Many of them ended up working at night and so they could spend the day in full time childcare mode.
 
2022-11-27 8:09:26 PM  

Lusiphur: I'm confused about why someone who works for themselves and can work from home


I thought the same thing. Work from home and run your own business/work? Why do you need a daycare?
 
2022-11-27 8:10:51 PM  

keldaria: Assuming 4-5 kids per adult for infants or maybe a couple more for toddler+ and you can pay a living wage plus cover some overhead without creating safety concerns assuming the children are all contained to an area where they can be clearly observed.


A lot of places cap infant to cater ratios at 4:1.

Run the numbers though and in any vaguely high cost of living area it's very difficult to provide "affordable" care while also paying living wages.

For example:

4 infants at $1000/month = $4000 revenue.

Care is normally provided for approx 11 hours a day (7-6). So that $4000 has to cover 238 hours of staff (assuming you manage to perfectly balance staff with kids and have part timers to avoid paying overtime). Assuming zero overhead this mean you can pay a whopping $17/hour (including employer side payroll).

You don't have zero overhead. Take out payroll, insurance, rent, supplies, overhead staff, time on the clock before/after opening/closing to open and close and inefficiencies in exactly balancing staff with care requirements and you're gonna be lucky to be able to make federal min wage payments if you're charging $1000/kid/month, and you can completely forgets about offering health insurance.

Push the number up to around $1300-1400 and it *starts* to become viable, assuming you have good rates on rent. But this is close to the absolute floor for daycare costs in a lot of places.
 
2022-11-27 8:26:34 PM  

thornhill: Lusiphur: Sorry, I'm confused about why someone who works for themselves and can work from home needs either a co-working space OR childcare. Don't want to miss magic moments? Cool! Put the crib in the office. And don't worry, your 6-week-old darling baby will be perfectly fine if they aren't getting immersive mandarin lessons while you co-work.

Not sure if you're serious or not.

Watching young children while working from home really doesn't work. Kids need to be monitored constantly, and there are times that you must attend to them.

During the pandemic when day cares were closed, it really stressed out my coworkers. Many of them ended up working at night and so they could spend the day in full time childcare mode.


Sorry, but I've been a single parent and this is largely bullshiat. Unless you're incapable of handling more than one thing at a time or are a horrible parent incapable of seeing and enforcing expectations, there is absolutely zero reason to have a child in day care while working from home.
 
2022-11-27 8:28:39 PM  

Mindlock: You can make daycare affordable; you've just got to monetize the kids.  Rent out the ugly ones to carnival freak show and put the attractive ones on OnlyFans.  Take that money and apply it to the cost of their daycare.  Parents will love you for making it more affordable for them.


Or make them Fark bots that know how to type- everything sucks because of the ( enter the political party of not your choice)
 
2022-11-27 9:26:01 PM  
I remember when the word ESSENTIAL actually meant something.

The Covid era destroyed it, of course, and trivialized it. What do we mean essential? Daycare should be available, but it should not be mandatory. A lot of women do not want to use the facilities or programs that are available.

I think a daycare system should be able to offer better services than a typical mother would be able to provide herself, but at a cost to the mother that is LESS than the mother would be able to earn herself. Think about the implications of that. Society should pay a lot of money to subsidize daycare. Society should do it for the greater social good.

If you are providing a standard of care, then the people who benefit most are the people who have the most children, which is a private choice, but they bear disproportionately lower costs and might have lower opportunity costs. That is a public choice. And if you exclude nobody, then how does this NOT wind up being a tragedy of the commons?

If you are in a country where everyone is on the same page culturally, or economically, regarding childbirth and reproductive systems in pretty much the same way, then some kind of consensus is likely. But if some people are having 12 children for entirely irrational reasons (most often religion), then that burden has to be borne by everyone based on the decisions of a couple of crazy people. Octomom, Duggars, and others. That is going to create friction.

There is nothing ESSENTIAL about this. It is controversial, and the reporter or entrepreneur has discovered nothing new. This is a decades old problem that people have tried to solve with extended families, latchkeyism, illegal childcare, churches, and all kinds of quick fixes.
 
2022-11-27 10:02:34 PM  

Bruscar: Maybe it's time to set aside the comic TV tropes: the idea that a homemaker is a lazy, entitled Peg Bundy eating ice cream bon-bons while her house is a mess and the family goes hungry.


My wife lives up to that very well.  Over 10 hours per day average Netflix viewing time.

Maybe we should set aside our bigoted notions that only a female can be the stay at home parent or that only straight parents can have a stay at home parent.

Who is "we", sexist bigot?
 
2022-11-27 10:17:38 PM  

Lusiphur: thornhill: Lusiphur: Sorry, I'm confused about why someone who works for themselves and can work from home needs either a co-working space OR childcare. Don't want to miss magic moments? Cool! Put the crib in the office. And don't worry, your 6-week-old darling baby will be perfectly fine if they aren't getting immersive mandarin lessons while you co-work.

Not sure if you're serious or not.

Watching young children while working from home really doesn't work. Kids need to be monitored constantly, and there are times that you must attend to them.

During the pandemic when day cares were closed, it really stressed out my coworkers. Many of them ended up working at night and so they could spend the day in full time childcare mode.

Sorry, but I've been a single parent and this is largely bullshiat. Unless you're incapable of handling more than one thing at a time or are a horrible parent incapable of seeing and enforcing expectations, there is absolutely zero reason to have a child in day care while working from home.


Tell that to my colleagues who have to attend to a crying baby in the middle of a Zoom deposition.
 
2022-11-28 12:25:19 AM  

thornhill: Lusiphur: thornhill: Lusiphur: Sorry, I'm confused about why someone who works for themselves and can work from home needs either a co-working space OR childcare. Don't want to miss magic moments? Cool! Put the crib in the office. And don't worry, your 6-week-old darling baby will be perfectly fine if they aren't getting immersive mandarin lessons while you co-work.

Not sure if you're serious or not.

Watching young children while working from home really doesn't work. Kids need to be monitored constantly, and there are times that you must attend to them.

During the pandemic when day cares were closed, it really stressed out my coworkers. Many of them ended up working at night and so they could spend the day in full time childcare mode.

Sorry, but I've been a single parent and this is largely bullshiat. Unless you're incapable of handling more than one thing at a time or are a horrible parent incapable of seeing and enforcing expectations, there is absolutely zero reason to have a child in day care while working from home.

Tell that to my colleagues who have to attend to a crying baby in the middle of a Zoom deposition.


Sure. Mute your mic and use the voice chat while confirming your baby. Seriously, none of this is remotely new, plenty of people have been doing this for years, and if this feels difficult to your coworker, maybe they're not really cut out for a fast-paced, high-stress career. And again, I'm saying this as someone who's done it, and who did it long before it was cool back when taking a Skype meeting was still a weird thing to do for most people.
 
2022-11-28 7:49:26 AM  

Chabash: SoupGuru: Daycare is simultaneously too expensive and too cheap.

You get the bill at the end of the month and you think "Holy shiat, daycare is expensive"

And then you do the math and you think "My kid should really be watched by professionals that make more than these poor bastards, right?"

Yep, $1000 a month for 2.5-5 year olds will basically cover minimum wage for staff.


And you would be lucky to find a daycare that's that inexpensive.
 
2022-11-28 10:20:43 AM  
Cuckooz Nest

I thought cuckoos didn't build nests...?

The reason it failed was probably because they were sending the parents home with a kid that looked kinda like their own but not really.
 
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