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(War History Online)   Weighing in at almost 50lbs and firing a massive .57 cal round that's capable of punching through an armored vehicle, the Snipex Alligator "anti-material rifle" is in use by just one army: the UDF, and they've claimed a kill at 1.68 miles with it   (warhistoryonline.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, .50 BMG, Sniper, second-longest sniper kill, Anti-materiel rifle, Ukrainian sniper, Strategic Communications, National Guard of Ukraine, spare time  
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2711 clicks; posted to STEM » on 24 Nov 2022 at 7:15 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-11-23 9:44:02 PM  
2 person team, shooter and spotter makes it portable. Does it beat Barrett? Guessing it does
 
2022-11-23 9:48:34 PM  
Man. They have gotten hardcore about shoplifters.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-11-23 9:51:28 PM  

eurotrader: 2 person team, shooter and spotter makes it portable. Does it beat Barrett? Guessing it does


But does it beat a spotter with a scope calling down a drone to hit the targets.

Cause in a more modern military (with a limitless budget), that's the competition.
 
2022-11-23 9:55:51 PM  

Gubbo: eurotrader: 2 person team, shooter and spotter makes it portable. Does it beat Barrett? Guessing it does

But does it beat a spotter with a scope calling down a drone to hit the targets.

Cause in a more modern military (with a limitless budget), that's the competition.


Give me multiple cheap drone swarms over a single team with a long distance rifle that requires skills and training if playing a game. The computer controlled firing systems with some "rifles" makes drones cheaper as well.
 
2022-11-23 10:13:30 PM  
it shoots through school districts.
 
2022-11-23 10:17:21 PM  

elvisaintdead: it shoots through school districts.


The weirdness of school board actions in the past decade is already enough to not bring school districts into the discussion about a interesting rifle.
 
2022-11-23 10:27:52 PM  
Well I suppose the orcs who get a kiss behind the ear from that thing being fired 1.5 miles away end up dead before they even know that they have been hit?
 
2022-11-23 10:33:39 PM  

fragMasterFlash: Well I suppose the orcs who get a kiss behind the ear from that thing being fired 1.5 miles away end up dead before they even know that they have been hit?


They won't hear the shoot. Speed of sound versus speed of bullet.
 
2022-11-23 10:44:46 PM  

elvisaintdead: it shoots through school districts.


media-amazon.comView Full Size
 
2022-11-23 11:21:26 PM  
SUGOI DEKAI
 
2022-11-23 11:25:03 PM  
I hope this is put on the side of every one of those guns.

https://images.app.goo.gl/2makPdzY4xxW6oST9
 
2022-11-23 11:34:01 PM  
Obligatory: Also, the ammo costs $125 per shot.

Arab Shooting 700 nitro Gun Test.MP4
Youtube CLxMlL333_Y
 
2022-11-23 11:44:27 PM  
Imma need 2 of those for home defense and plinking cans in the backyard drinking with the boys.
 
2022-11-24 1:19:02 AM  

iToad: Obligatory: Also, the ammo costs $125 per shot.

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/CLxMlL333_Y?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsapi=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&widgetid=1]


Came to post that
 
2022-11-24 2:24:11 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


that's a couple of big twinkies.
 
2022-11-24 4:00:16 AM  
I used to have a 50 BMG bolt-action.  Most visceral shooting experience ever. Sadly with civilization all about, my record was a jar of Tannerite at 50 yds. Blowback from the shark brake felt like getting punched in the nose.
 
2022-11-24 7:34:55 AM  
Pretty sure its a violation of the Geneva Convention if that is the rifle they used. You're not supposed to use a caliber that large against human targets unless the target is inside an armored vehicle like a tank, APC, aircraft, etc. Its called an anti-material rifle for a reason. Thats also why US military snipers still use .308 or .30-06 caliber rifles on human targets. If you're a sniper using a Barrett .50 cal (or larger), you're supposed to be shooting at engine blocks or other such equipment, not people.

No, I'm not defending the farking Russians here so calm the fark down. I'm just pointing out that if the deets of the article are true and they did use a rifle that large to pop an orc's grape, its technically a war crime. And I dont care if nobody is going to hold them accountable for it either.
 
2022-11-24 7:40:18 AM  

Dick Gozinya: Pretty sure its a violation of the Geneva Convention if that is the rifle they used. You're not supposed to use a caliber that large against human targets unless the target is inside an armored vehicle like a tank, APC, aircraft, etc. Its called an anti-material rifle for a reason. Thats also why US military snipers still use .308 or .30-06 caliber rifles on human targets. If you're a sniper using a Barrett .50 cal (or larger), you're supposed to be shooting at engine blocks or other such equipment, not people.

No, I'm not defending the farking Russians here so calm the fark down. I'm just pointing out that if the deets of the article are true and they did use a rifle that large to pop an orc's grape, its technically a war crime. And I dont care if nobody is going to hold them accountable for it either.


So you're saying the war crimes score is Ukraine 1 : Russia ∞
 
2022-11-24 7:41:48 AM  

Dick Gozinya: Pretty sure its a violation of the Geneva Convention if that is the rifle they used. You're not supposed to use a caliber that large against human targets unless the target is inside an armored vehicle like a tank, APC, aircraft, etc. Its called an anti-material rifle for a reason. Thats also why US military snipers still use .308 or .30-06 caliber rifles on human targets. If you're a sniper using a Barrett .50 cal (or larger), you're supposed to be shooting at engine blocks or other such equipment, not people.

No, I'm not defending the farking Russians here so calm the fark down. I'm just pointing out that if the deets of the article are true and they did use a rifle that large to pop an orc's grape, its technically a war crime. And I dont care if nobody is going to hold them accountable for it either.


Pretty sure it is NOT contravened by the Geneva Convention.  You're putting out bullshiat
 
2022-11-24 7:45:42 AM  

johnny_vegas: Dick Gozinya: Pretty sure its a violation of the Geneva Convention if that is the rifle they used. You're not supposed to use a caliber that large against human targets unless the target is inside an armored vehicle like a tank, APC, aircraft, etc. Its called an anti-material rifle for a reason. Thats also why US military snipers still use .308 or .30-06 caliber rifles on human targets. If you're a sniper using a Barrett .50 cal (or larger), you're supposed to be shooting at engine blocks or other such equipment, not people.

No, I'm not defending the farking Russians here so calm the fark down. I'm just pointing out that if the deets of the article are true and they did use a rifle that large to pop an orc's grape, its technically a war crime. And I dont care if nobody is going to hold them accountable for it either.

Pretty sure it is NOT contravened by the Geneva Convention.  You're putting out bullshiat


And I am not sure the Hague Convention mentions such weapons (that is the treaty that covers the rules of war).
 
2022-11-24 7:46:31 AM  

Dick Gozinya: Pretty sure its a violation of the Geneva Convention if that is the rifle they used. You're not supposed to use a caliber that large against human targets unless the target is inside an armored vehicle like a tank, APC, aircraft, etc. Its called an anti-material rifle for a reason. Thats also why US military snipers still use .308 or .30-06 caliber rifles on human targets. If you're a sniper using a Barrett .50 cal (or larger), you're supposed to be shooting at engine blocks or other such equipment, not people.

No, I'm not defending the farking Russians here so calm the fark down. I'm just pointing out that if the deets of the article are true and they did use a rifle that large to pop an orc's grape, its technically a war crime. And I dont care if nobody is going to hold them accountable for it either.


The US Military uses 7.62 as a sniper round because of doctrine and cost, not because of any legal reason. The problem with 50BMG is that it is a very old design and it's ballistics do not make it a very good precision round at the distances that 7.62 stops at.

If you are going to shoot over 800m then 338 Lapua Magnum is much better, but that requires money to spent on soldiers and not defense contactors.
 
2022-11-24 7:48:09 AM  

ClavellBCMI: johnny_vegas: Dick Gozinya: Pretty sure its a violation of the Geneva Convention if that is the rifle they used. You're not supposed to use a caliber that large against human targets unless the target is inside an armored vehicle like a tank, APC, aircraft, etc. Its called an anti-material rifle for a reason. Thats also why US military snipers still use .308 or .30-06 caliber rifles on human targets. If you're a sniper using a Barrett .50 cal (or larger), you're supposed to be shooting at engine blocks or other such equipment, not people.

No, I'm not defending the farking Russians here so calm the fark down. I'm just pointing out that if the deets of the article are true and they did use a rifle that large to pop an orc's grape, its technically a war crime. And I dont care if nobody is going to hold them accountable for it either.

Pretty sure it is NOT contravened by the Geneva Convention.  You're putting out bullshiat

And I am not sure the Hague Convention mentions such weapons (that is the treaty that covers the rules of war).


And this is what I am referring to:

Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.
 
2022-11-24 8:04:52 AM  
Hague IV Annex, Section II, Chapter 1, Article 23

"To employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering", and specifically ban (In the Hague Laws of War, 1899) "the Use of Bullets which can Easily Expand or Change their Form inside the Human Body such as Bullets with a Hard Covering which does not Completely Cover the Core, or containing Indentations".

You want to snipe with a .950 JDJ?  Go right ahead.
 
2022-11-24 8:23:06 AM  

Dick Gozinya: Pretty sure its a violation of the Geneva Convention if that is the rifle they used. You're not supposed to use a caliber that large against human targets unless the target is inside an armored vehicle like a tank, APC, aircraft, etc. Its called an anti-material rifle for a reason. Thats also why US military snipers still use .308 or .30-06 caliber rifles on human targets. If you're a sniper using a Barrett .50 cal (or larger), you're supposed to be shooting at engine blocks or other such equipment, not people.

No, I'm not defending the farking Russians here so calm the fark down. I'm just pointing out that if the deets of the article are true and they did use a rifle that large to pop an orc's grape, its technically a war crime. And I dont care if nobody is going to hold them accountable for it either.


it's not called an anti-material rifle at all
 
2022-11-24 8:50:26 AM  
The Geneva convention.huh?

Suck a bag of bad oysters.

If you belong to a county that declares war, yeah, follow the rules of war.
If you did not declare war, you are not accepting it or the bullshiat rules.


Some one breaks into your house in the middle of the night, you don't reach in the night stand for a farking rule book.

If an entire country Breaks into your city over night, you don't reach for rules.
You improvise.

If you can haul a Steinway up to the roof with a freight elevator and drop it on a squad, you do that.

If you can use an angle grinder to compromise the structure of a propane tank, or hundreds and  hundreds of them, then fill them up, and park a decent heat source/detonator (electric even for stealth) you do that and park them in a vest made of buts, bolts, screws and ball bearings, and wait...for the opportune time to shred the enemy.

Some one invades your country, you put their farking heads on pikes and flay their corpses for the scavengers. Then turn to Geneva, and say, "Want some?!"

Ukraine did not ask to be raped


They can do what they want.

More power to them.
What do you want them to do? Hire the Sokoloves ??
 
2022-11-24 8:54:48 AM  

eurotrader: Gubbo: eurotrader: 2 person team, shooter and spotter makes it portable. Does it beat Barrett? Guessing it does

But does it beat a spotter with a scope calling down a drone to hit the targets.

Cause in a more modern military (with a limitless budget), that's the competition.

Give me multiple cheap drone swarms over a single team with a long distance rifle that requires skills and training if playing a game. The computer controlled firing systems with some "rifles" makes drones cheaper as well.


Go back to your mom's basement
 
2022-11-24 9:02:28 AM  
Pedant alert!

materiel |məˌti(ə)rēˈel| (also matériel)
noun
military materials and equipment.
 
2022-11-24 9:07:07 AM  

Larva Lump: Pedant alert!

materiel |məˌti(ə)rēˈel| (also matériel)
noun
military materials and equipment.


It could be correct...

pics.filmaffinity.comView Full Size
 
2022-11-24 9:07:27 AM  
For all the "experts" in the thread:

Longest shot is still by JTF 2 (CDN) firing .50 BMG, at roughly 3.5 kilometers. I guess .50 BMG works fine.

#2 is by an Australian with a specialty .50 round in everyone's favorite "anti-material" rifle, the Barrett.

This shot by a UDF shooter is now the #3 longest shot recorded.

We still saying .50's no good for shooting at long range?

The more the bullet weighs, the less it deviates from its course due to outside influences like leaves, wind, bad vibes, etc. I've shot some VERY high velocity small bullets (.22-250, 57 grain 3/4 jacket, well over 4200 FPS) and little bullets will fark off at the slightest provocation. It's a good round for small deer, because the gun to fire it is so very light and there's basically no recoil. Plus, if you're not an idiot, you're shooting at under 200 meters. If you're depending on your bullet going exactly where you aim, you want BIG.

Big bullets pretty much ignore the world until they get where they're going. If you did your math, the hole will appear where you want it to. Small bullets will decide they want to go explore Mars for some reason. If you did your math, sucks to be you because hey, a leaf.

Point the second: Is it a war crime?

Well, you have to remember that when the 12.7x99 round was developed, it was intended for anti-tank purposes. In WW I. More than 100 years ago. Armor has, shall we say, advanced a bit since then.

The "rules" don't like it if you target a person with an anti-tank munition. Based on that, one could argue that shooting someone with .50 BMG (aka, 12.7x99) is a war crime. If you're fighting in WW I.

But when's the last time you met a tank you could kill with a .50 cal? Keep in mind an APC isn't a tank, please.

Basically, they would like it if you stopped shooting people with TOWs. Or Mk 82 for Dave specifically, right? :P Poor Dave.

Finally, let's be honest. If you're going to get shot and die, would you rather take a couple of 5.56 and bleed out, or would you take 1x 12.7 that blows your chest into a canoe and you die pretty much right now. I'd go for the bullet that turns me into a pink mist, I'm pretty sure mists don't feel pain.
 
2022-11-24 9:14:04 AM  

GrendelMk1: Point the second: Is it a war crime?

Well, you have to remember


No, you don't have to remember anything.  It's not a war crime. Full stop.
 
2022-11-24 9:22:10 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Unavailable to express enthusiasm.

Lee's specialty in life was gunnery. At the age of 19 in 1907 "he became the only American to win both the US National High Power Rifle and Pistol championships in the same year." In 1914 during the Veracruz campaign in Mexico he drew the fire of three enemy snipers, thereby exposing their positions and then shot them at long range. He understood the powerful guns of a battleship as an extension of the law of ballistics and adapted his expertise to the new age of technology. When Admiral Lee engaged the Japanese Vice Admiral Nobutake Kondō's battleship Kirishima on the evening of 14 November 1942 in the waters off Guadalcanal, he became naval history's first battleship commander to conduct a "gunfight" primarily by radar remote control.

Can't recall whose ship was using its main battery to pick off specific targets on shore during some landing, but ... 16-inch naval rifle sniping FTW?
 
2022-11-24 9:25:17 AM  

johnny_vegas: GrendelMk1: Point the second: Is it a war crime?

Well, you have to remember

No, you don't have to remember anything.  It's not a war crime. Full stop.


Akshyually :P

You're right, it's not. And the things I said are why. Shooting people with anti-tank weapons is a war crime. In WW I, a .50 cal was an anti-tank weapon. Hint: when were the current rules written?

Nowadays you need something juuuuuust a bit more authoritative than a man-portable rifle to kill a tank.

You DO need to remember, because there's a specific reason it's not a war crime. The former AT weapon is no longer an AT weapon, thus you may now use .50 BMG (and many other rounds) for AP and not run afoul of the rules.

If you're out there killing people, there's rules and you DO need to follow them. As a civilian, it's totally ok to not know them. If you're an officer in a military that's in active conflict, you should maybe know them.

You should probably also know why there might be under-informed people who might think a .50 BMG rifle is a war crime waiting to happen.

Also, if you're a civilian that wants to opine loudly, you should Google.

Full stop.
 
2022-11-24 9:26:17 AM  

vudukungfu: The Geneva convention.huh?

Suck a bag of bad oysters.

If you belong to a county that declares war, yeah, follow the rules of war.
If you did not declare war, you are not accepting it or the bullshiat rules.


Some one breaks into your house in the middle of the night, you don't reach in the night stand for a farking rule book.

If an entire country Breaks into your city over night, you don't reach for rules.
You improvise.

If you can haul a Steinway up to the roof with a freight elevator and drop it on a squad, you do that.

If you can use an angle grinder to compromise the structure of a propane tank, or hundreds and  hundreds of them, then fill them up, and park a decent heat source/detonator (electric even for stealth) you do that and park them in a vest made of buts, bolts, screws and ball bearings, and wait...for the opportune time to shred the enemy.

Some one invades your country, you put their farking heads on pikes and flay their corpses for the scavengers. Then turn to Geneva, and say, "Want some?!"

Ukraine did not ask to be raped


They can do what they want.

More power to them.
What do you want them to do? Hire the Sokoloves ??


... What an interesting interpretation of reality you have.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just pulled your examples out of the air without giving it any thought.
 
2022-11-24 9:37:08 AM  

PadreScout: ?

... What an interesting interpretation of reality you have.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just pulled your examples out of the air without giving it any thought.


I'm not violently proud of pig-ignorance, racism, sexism, or Jesus.
Because they have no place in reality.
 
2022-11-24 9:40:59 AM  

Larva Lump: [Fark user image 220x275]

Unavailable to express enthusiasm.

Lee's specialty in life was gunnery. At the age of 19 in 1907 "he became the only American to win both the US National High Power Rifle and Pistol championships in the same year." In 1914 during the Veracruz campaign in Mexico he drew the fire of three enemy snipers, thereby exposing their positions and then shot them at long range. He understood the powerful guns of a battleship as an extension of the law of ballistics and adapted his expertise to the new age of technology. When Admiral Lee engaged the Japanese Vice Admiral Nobutake Kondō's battleship Kirishima on the evening of 14 November 1942 in the waters off Guadalcanal, he became naval history's first battleship commander to conduct a "gunfight" primarily by radar remote control.

Can't recall whose ship was using its main battery to pick off specific targets on shore during some landing, but ... 16-inch naval rifle sniping FTW?


I don't know if you can call it "sniping" when your ballistics is aided by surface search radar (the SG system is the bit with the rectangular arms, just below the parabolic SK-2 dish),

Fark user imageView Full Size


a fire control system for each turret,

Fark user imageView Full Size


and a room dedicated to a plotting computer.

Fark user imageView Full Size


This is on board North Carolina, but both ships of the class were fitted with the same systems during the Guadalcanal campaign.
 
2022-11-24 9:53:46 AM  

vudukungfu: I'm not violently proud of pig-ignorance, racism, sexism, or Jesus.
Because they have no place in reality.


Explaining yourself is probably not going to go the way you think it is.   But .. speak your personal truth.   It's a holiday.
 
2022-11-24 9:57:02 AM  

Dick Gozinya: Pretty sure its a violation of the Geneva Convention if that is the rifle they used. You're not supposed to use a caliber that large against human targets unless the target is inside an armored vehicle like a tank, APC, aircraft, etc. Its called an anti-material rifle for a reason. Thats also why US military snipers still use .308 or .30-06 caliber rifles on human targets. If you're a sniper using a Barrett .50 cal (or larger), you're supposed to be shooting at engine blocks or other such equipment, not people.

No, I'm not defending the farking Russians here so calm the fark down. I'm just pointing out that if the deets of the article are true and they did use a rifle that large to pop an orc's grape, its technically a war crime. And I dont care if nobody is going to hold them accountable for it either.


It's my opinion that it's impossible to not commit war crimes while fighting a war. That said, to a large extent I'm willing to accept being the defensive actor in a war as a defence against all but the worst.
 
2022-11-24 10:07:10 AM  

Shadow Blasko: Man. They have gotten hardcore about shoplifters.

[Fark user image 425x239]


With that range, they let you get home first, then....
 
2022-11-24 10:18:47 AM  

Larva Lump: [Fark user image 220x275]

Unavailable to express enthusiasm.

Lee's specialty in life was gunnery. At the age of 19 in 1907 "he became the only American to win both the US National High Power Rifle and Pistol championships in the same year." In 1914 during the Veracruz campaign in Mexico he drew the fire of three enemy snipers, thereby exposing their positions and then shot them at long range. He understood the powerful guns of a battleship as an extension of the law of ballistics and adapted his expertise to the new age of technology. When Admiral Lee engaged the Japanese Vice Admiral Nobutake Kondō's battleship Kirishima on the evening of 14 November 1942 in the waters off Guadalcanal, he became naval history's first battleship commander to conduct a "gunfight" primarily by radar remote control.

Can't recall whose ship was using its main battery to pick off specific targets on shore during some landing, but ... 16-inch naval rifle sniping FTW?


It might have been Washington, but Lee and the fast battleships (the North Carolina, South Dakota and Iowa classes) didn't really get into the ground pounding realm until after Leyte Gulf. Before that, since they were fast enough to keep up with the carriers, they tended to stick around them for AA fire support - something about, oh, 16 to 20 5"/38s and 48 to 64 40mm Bofors being handy when the bad planes are trying to touch you. After Leyte Gulf, the IJN carrier threat was completely gone, the only real AA needs was in close against kamikaze's and they generally tried to keep the carrier back from short to keep them safe. (Didn't always work, ask the Benjamin Franklin.)

Lee said "Why is this hard? It's a very large rifle, but it's a rifle, and it's being fired off a bench. We should be able to be very accurate." He designed gunnery problems, then had to explain them to his gunnery officer and master gunner because they didn't understand it.

He knew rifles. He made Washington the most accurate battleship in the fleet, and when he became commander of the Fast Battleship Line, he insisted the rest of them, as the kids would say today, Git Gud.
 
2022-11-24 10:31:58 AM  

GrendelMk1: johnny_vegas: GrendelMk1: Point the second: Is it a war crime?

Well, you have to remember

No, you don't have to remember anything.  It's not a war crime. Full stop.

Akshyually :P

You're right, it's not. And the things I said are why. Shooting people with anti-tank weapons is a war crime. In WW I, a .50 cal was an anti-tank weapon. Hint: when were the current rules written?

Nowadays you need something juuuuuust a bit more authoritative than a man-portable rifle to kill a tank.

You DO need to remember, because there's a specific reason it's not a war crime. The former AT weapon is no longer an AT weapon, thus you may now use .50 BMG (and many other rounds) for AP and not run afoul of the rules.

If you're out there killing people, there's rules and you DO need to follow them. As a civilian, it's totally ok to not know them. If you're an officer in a military that's in active conflict, you should maybe know them.

You should probably also know why there might be under-informed people who might think a .50 BMG rifle is a war crime waiting to happen.

Also, if you're a civilian that wants to opine loudly, you should Google.

Full stop.


I was told the same thing by a Vietnam vet who used a verhicle mounted .50 cal machine gun, that they were instructd that he laws of war required that it be used only against enemy equipment....and then after a pause, the instructor told them that an enemy's uniform was part of his "equipment'
 
2022-11-24 10:34:56 AM  

elvisaintdead: [Fark user image 850x1291]

that's a couple of big twinkies.


Ok her gun is definitely bigger than mine.
 
2022-11-24 10:35:43 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-11-24 10:38:24 AM  
TICK TOCK
 
2022-11-24 10:40:40 AM  
Since you all seem to be so sure about the laws of war, if 12mm is too big, when does it become legal again? Because I'm sure it's fin to blow the guy apart with a 60mm mortar or a 120mm shell. Would 12mm be fine if you pack it full of high explosives first?
 
2022-11-24 10:44:09 AM  

iToad: Obligatory: Also, the ammo costs $125 per shot.

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/CLxMlL333_Y?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsapi=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&widgetid=1]


Jorts guy knew what he was doing, looked like the best of the bunch.

According to Wikipedia, it fires a 1000-grain bullet (over two ounces!) at 2,000 ft/s, for 9,000 ft-lbs of energy with a 28-inch barrel.  The one in the video is probably a 16" barrel, which will lower the muzzle velocity and drastically increase the noise and shock.

It's only half the power of a 14.5mm rifle, though, which admittedly has a much longer barrel than the one in the video (in the 48-inch range).  That one shoots a similar-weight bullet at 3,300 ft/s.  Since kinetic energy is a square function, that gets you to the 23,000 ft-lb level.

Ouch.
 
2022-11-24 10:47:53 AM  

UNC_Samurai: I don't know if you can call it "sniping" when your ballistics is aided by surface search radar


Thanks for missing the disconnect. Separate instances. One is not like the other.
 
2022-11-24 10:51:00 AM  

Magorn: GrendelMk1: johnny_vegas: GrendelMk1: Point the second: Is it a war crime?

Well, you have to remember

No, you don't have to remember anything.  It's not a war crime. Full stop.

Akshyually :P

You're right, it's not. And the things I said are why. Shooting people with anti-tank weapons is a war crime. In WW I, a .50 cal was an anti-tank weapon. Hint: when were the current rules written?

Nowadays you need something juuuuuust a bit more authoritative than a man-portable rifle to kill a tank.

You DO need to remember, because there's a specific reason it's not a war crime. The former AT weapon is no longer an AT weapon, thus you may now use .50 BMG (and many other rounds) for AP and not run afoul of the rules.

If you're out there killing people, there's rules and you DO need to follow them. As a civilian, it's totally ok to not know them. If you're an officer in a military that's in active conflict, you should maybe know them.

You should probably also know why there might be under-informed people who might think a .50 BMG rifle is a war crime waiting to happen.

Also, if you're a civilian that wants to opine loudly, you should Google.

Full stop.

I was told the same thing by a Vietnam vet who used a verhicle mounted .50 cal machine gun, that they were instructd that he laws of war required that it be used only against enemy equipment....and then after a pause, the instructor told them that an enemy's uniform was part of his "equipment'


Heh. My father served in Vietnam, one of roughly 5,000 Canucks who did so. That line is apparently incredibly common among people who haven't been shot at. "My" Vietnam vet didn't tell me much, but he did tell me most of what you hear at home is bullshiat.
 
2022-11-24 10:51:52 AM  

eurotrader: Gubbo: eurotrader: 2 person team, shooter and spotter makes it portable. Does it beat Barrett? Guessing it does

But does it beat a spotter with a scope calling down a drone to hit the targets.

Cause in a more modern military (with a limitless budget), that's the competition.

Give me multiple cheap drone swarms over a single team with a long distance rifle that requires skills and training if playing a game. The computer controlled firing systems with some "rifles" makes drones cheaper as well.


Gun is expensive, ammo is cheap.

A sniper with a $5,000 .50BMG rifle can disable vehicles and destroy materiel for about $10 a shot.  Show me a drone with a 1.5 mile range that can carry enough explosive to destroy an engine block for the same price.
 
2022-11-24 10:55:18 AM  

UNC_Samurai: Hague IV Annex, Section II, Chapter 1, Article 23

"To employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering", and specifically ban (In the Hague Laws of War, 1899) "the Use of Bullets which can Easily Expand or Change their Form inside the Human Body such as Bullets with a Hard Covering which does not Completely Cover the Core, or containing Indentations".

You want to snipe with a .950 JDJ?  Go right ahead.


Bullets that expand won't be an issue with the .50BMG.  It creates a 30" wound cavity, so it will just rip your target in half.

As for the video, seemed very quick between the shot and the hit.  1.68 miles at 3000 feet per second means about a 3 second flight time.  Also, the sniper's point of aim wouldn't be on the target; it would be well above it to account for bullet drop.  No sniper has their scope zeroed for a 1.6 mile shot.
 
2022-11-24 10:58:41 AM  

Dick Gozinya: Thats also why US military snipers still use .308 or .30-06 caliber rifles on human targets. If you're a sniper using a Barrett .50 cal (or larger), you're supposed to be shooting at engine blocks or other such equipment, not people.


I'll tell you what my Drill Sergeant  told me.

"The .50 BMG is an anti material gun. You're not supposed to target people with this.  Only equipment. That flashlight that enemy troop is carrying on his vest, that's equipment. That canteen on his hip, that's equipment.  The helmet on his head, that's equipment. Remember, only target equipment and not people with this. "
 
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