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(Gizmodo)   US Navy caught supporting piracy   (gizmodo.com) divider line
    More: Ironic, Computer, U.S. Navy, Copyright infringement, 2015, court filing, software company, Bitmanagement Software GmbH, United States Navy  
•       •       •

4960 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Nov 2022 at 11:17 PM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



66 Comments     (+0 »)
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2022-11-23 8:58:31 PM  
ARRRRRR there going to be consequences??
 
2022-11-23 9:12:39 PM  
GmbH claimed they had issued 38 copies of their 3D virtual reality software, BS Contact Geo, but while they were still in negotiations for additional licenses, the Navy installed the software onto at least 558,466 machines between 2013 and 2015.

1) GmbH isn't the name of the company. It's literally LLC in German.
2) That's a hilarious, but completely unsurprising, overstep in license counts.
 
2022-11-23 10:12:47 PM  
Okay, who's got the lash? Who's got the run? I'll bring the sodomy.
 
2022-11-23 10:16:13 PM  
The federal court charged the U.S. Navy to pay a software company thousands of dollars for copyright infringement.
By
Nikki Main

Don't wish to speak for others, but I'm confident most of us are happy the author's handle isn't Nikki Politics.

/Amirite?!?!
 
2022-11-23 10:52:01 PM  
Avast, ye scurvy dogs!
 
2022-11-23 11:11:39 PM  
This is a win for the Navy. The company sued for $600M, claiming the product was worth about $1K each for over 500,000 copies. Then the Navy expert put the value at $200 per. So the Navy's own expert put the total at $100M, not $600M.

And in the end, they paid $154,000. I wouldn't even call that a slap on the wrist. That's like about a tenth of a penny on the dollar even if you believe the Navy guy.

That's like collecting millions and millions of those old paper coupons that said "cash value 1/20 of a cent".
 
2022-11-23 11:25:13 PM  
The funny thing is that officers should remember this from their childhoods.

Piracy it's a crime
Youtube HmZm8vNHBSU


...except it didn't matter then, either.
 
2022-11-23 11:25:43 PM  
A friggin' token judgement, if the story is accurate.  Meanwhile, the Fed is actively ruining lives over watching movies.
 
2022-11-23 11:28:47 PM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: This is a win for the Navy. The company sued for $600M, claiming the product was worth about $1K each for over 500,000 copies. Then the Navy expert put the value at $200 per. So the Navy's own expert put the total at $100M, not $600M.

And in the end, they paid $154,000. I wouldn't even call that a slap on the wrist. That's like about a tenth of a penny on the dollar even if you believe the Navy guy.

That's like collecting millions and millions of those old paper coupons that said "cash value 1/20 of a cent".


Came for this also.

The navy paid 27 cents/copy. The lesson here for government agencies is to just steal IP and then maybe a few years on pay pennies for it.
 
2022-11-23 11:29:47 PM  
David Kennedy, a Certified Public Accountant (CPA) for Pricewaterhouse Coopers determined that the price per license amounts to $200.

So we're making you pay ¢28 per copy you installed.
 
2022-11-23 11:34:17 PM  
Where's the merchant marine when you need them?
 
2022-11-23 11:35:59 PM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: This is a win for the Navy. The company sued for $600M, claiming the product was worth about $1K each for over 500,000 copies. Then the Navy expert put the value at $200 per. So the Navy's own expert put the total at $100M, not $600M.

And in the end, they paid $154,000. I wouldn't even call that a slap on the wrist. That's like about a tenth of a penny on the dollar even if you believe the Navy guy.

That's like collecting millions and millions of those old paper coupons that said "cash value 1/20 of a cent".


That's a little odd to me. The navy was dumb enough to put pirated software in their default workstation build yet somehow smart enough to maintain logs over the years for how many instances of the illegal install were actually used? Maybe the software requires a license key to activate and they tracked how many times the key was issued. Depending on how the key is distributed that number could be bogus too.
 
2022-11-23 11:36:38 PM  
rum, piracy, and the lash?
 
2022-11-23 11:42:27 PM  
The last time that company will get a government contract. They're not the only software developer out there.

Had they been one of three or four possible vendors, it would have been a $5B deal for the company.

/I'm looking at you, Boeing and Lockheed.
//Incorporate a dongle into your software.
///Go Navy! Beat Army!
 
2022-11-23 11:46:24 PM  

indy_kid: The last time that company will get a government contract. They're not the only software developer out there.

Had they been one of three or four possible vendors, it would have been a $5B deal for the company.

/I'm looking at you, Boeing and Lockheed.
//Incorporate a dongle into your software.
///Go Navy! Beat Army!


I presume a dongle is something completely different in the Navy.
 
2022-11-23 11:48:32 PM  
Yarrrgh, make them oil the Mizzenmast!
 
2022-11-23 11:55:49 PM  
There was a time when companies were expected to be good partners in the community. Since our government has been bought , the people and institutions have been there only to prop up companies.
 
2022-11-24 12:11:54 AM  

mrparks: The funny thing is that officers should remember this from their childhoods.


...

The IT Crowd - Series 2 - Episode 3: Piracy warning
Youtube ALZZx1xmAzg
 
2022-11-24 12:20:11 AM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: This is a win for the Navy. The company sued for $600M, claiming the product was worth about $1K each for over 500,000 copies. Then the Navy expert put the value at $200 per. So the Navy's own expert put the total at $100M, not $600M.

And in the end, they paid $154,000. I wouldn't even call that a slap on the wrist. That's like about a tenth of a penny on the dollar even if you believe the Navy guy.

That's like collecting millions and millions of those old paper coupons that said "cash value 1/20 of a cent".


The Navy argued that they had licensed or were in negotiations to license a concurrent use model, if only 38 people actually used the software then it doesn't matter how many times it was installed. This is not at all unusual in enterprise software, we license Citrix for 1,200 concurrent users but 6,000 have access to the software. The fact that someone jumped the gun and installed the software into the base gold image before contracts were done is a stupid oversight but not intentional copyright infringement. It's also very stupid that a software package with a few dozen users was put into the base image, it definitely should have been a per-user or per-group post install push, but sometimes bureaucracy runs amuck in large organizations.
 
2022-11-24 12:23:19 AM  

Bootleg: GmbH claimed they had issued 38 copies of their 3D virtual reality software, BS Contact Geo, but while they were still in negotiations for additional licenses, the Navy installed the software onto at least 558,466 machines between 2013 and 2015.

1) GmbH isn't the name of the company. It's literally LLC in German.
2) That's a hilarious, but completely unsurprising, overstep in license counts.


Username checks out.
 
2022-11-24 12:25:56 AM  

iron_city_ap: Yarrrgh, make them oil the Mizzenmast!


Mister La Forge. Set the royals and stunsails.
 
2022-11-24 12:26:40 AM  

robodog: The Navy argued . . .


Yes, but the Navy lost the case, and the the court ordered less than a penny on the dollar. Not bad if you are the losing litigant.
 
2022-11-24 12:30:00 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


They would.
 
2022-11-24 12:34:51 AM  

mrparks: The funny thing is that officers should remember this from their childhoods.

[YouTube video: Piracy it's a crime]

...except it didn't matter then, either.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2022-11-24 12:35:28 AM  

Kumana Wanalaia: iron_city_ap: Yarrrgh, make them oil the Mizzenmast!

Mister La Forge. Set the royals and stunsails.


The first time I read a Captain Jack Aubrey book, that's exactly what I was thinking. Star Trek technobabble was the same damn thing as actual sailing jargon. Yes, you have hundreds of different kinds of sails, but did you have to give most of them such stupid names?
 
2022-11-24 12:40:53 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-11-24 12:42:07 AM  

maxandgrinch: [Fark user image image 425x264]

They would.


You Wouldn't Download a Car
Youtube Fb7N-JtQWGI
 
2022-11-24 12:49:35 AM  

Incident on 57th Street: The federal court charged the U.S. Navy to pay a software company thousands of dollars for copyright infringement.
By
Nikki Main

Don't wish to speak for others, but I'm confident most of us are happy the author's handle isn't Nikki Politics.

/Amirite?!?!


I bet her full name is:

Nikki Public Static Void Main

unless she's switched to Kotlin
 
2022-11-24 12:49:39 AM  

Ghastly: Okay, who's got the lash? Who's got the run? I'll bring the sodomy.


Can you "bring" sodomy or merely "provide" it?

Just asking.
 
2022-11-24 12:50:29 AM  

Target Builder: Three Crooked Squirrels: This is a win for the Navy. The company sued for $600M, claiming the product was worth about $1K each for over 500,000 copies. Then the Navy expert put the value at $200 per. So the Navy's own expert put the total at $100M, not $600M.

And in the end, they paid $154,000. I wouldn't even call that a slap on the wrist. That's like about a tenth of a penny on the dollar even if you believe the Navy guy.

That's like collecting millions and millions of those old paper coupons that said "cash value 1/20 of a cent".

Came for this also.

The navy paid 27 cents/copy. The lesson here for government agencies is to just steal IP and then maybe a few years on pay pennies for it.


No, they have to pay $200 per unique, unlicensed, user and an additional $35,000.

The number of computers it was installed on is irrelevant because the Navy had a license agreement allowing them to install the program on as many computers as they wanted, however the license required them to install monitoring software that would restrict them to their licenses based on users (in particular, they could only have the 38 simultaneous users they had paid for). The Navy disabled the monitoring software and they couldn't support the number of simultaneous users so the court determined a sort of worst case scenario by assessing a license for all unique users in the period it was not tracked (less the 38 licenses they had).

It then added on $35,000 on the assumption that the Navy would have negotiated a different type of license during the period if they weren't infringing.
 
2022-11-24 12:51:20 AM  
You wouldn't download sodomy and the lash, would you?

/of course not
//people only stream shiat like that now
 
2022-11-24 12:53:39 AM  
Next on NCIS...
 
2022-11-24 12:59:31 AM  
The figure seems criminally low.  Event if we go buy the bullshiat $200 per install price the Navy's accountant pulled out of his butt.
 
2022-11-24 1:02:25 AM  

Target Builder: Three Crooked Squirrels: This is a win for the Navy. The company sued for $600M, claiming the product was worth about $1K each for over 500,000 copies. Then the Navy expert put the value at $200 per. So the Navy's own expert put the total at $100M, not $600M.

And in the end, they paid $154,000. I wouldn't even call that a slap on the wrist. That's like about a tenth of a penny on the dollar even if you believe the Navy guy.

That's like collecting millions and millions of those old paper coupons that said "cash value 1/20 of a cent".

Came for this also.

The navy paid 27 cents/copy. The lesson here for government agencies is to just steal IP and then maybe a few years on pay pennies for it.


Would love to see contract no. N62583-12-P-0767 so I can understand "ENABLED BY NAVFAC USING
FLEXERA SOFTWARE'S FLEXWRAP UTILITY OF THE ADMIN STUDIO SOFTWARE SUITE."

Sounds like a distributor got paid and possibly agreed to let the Navy do whatever it wanted.
 
2022-11-24 1:19:07 AM  

Langdon_777: The figure seems criminally low.  Event if we go buy the bullshiat $200 per install price the Navy's accountant pulled out of his butt.


First, it isn't per install, the Navy had license to install the software, it is for the usage. When the original license was agreed to, the Navy wouldn't accept a per install license because they knew that it would be used by a relatively small number of personnel but on many machines, so the company agreed to let the Navy install it on many machines and use software to ensure they didn't exceed the number of licenses in use.

Second, the company's expert said $259 per license (based on a $350 figure proposed in negotiations, that broke down, for software and a volume discount) and the Navy said $200 (based on the $300 the Navy did pay less a discount for the much larger volume).

Finally, the amount is calculated assuming everyone who ever used the software was a simultaneous user and the judge added on the 100 licenses that the Navy was negotiating for but did not purchase.
 
2022-11-24 1:20:55 AM  

Bootleg: 1) GmbH isn't the name of the company. It's literally LLC in German.


Glad I wasn't the only one to notice this.
 
2022-11-24 1:22:23 AM  

Steakzilla: Target Builder: Three Crooked Squirrels: This is a win for the Navy. The company sued for $600M, claiming the product was worth about $1K each for over 500,000 copies. Then the Navy expert put the value at $200 per. So the Navy's own expert put the total at $100M, not $600M.

And in the end, they paid $154,000. I wouldn't even call that a slap on the wrist. That's like about a tenth of a penny on the dollar even if you believe the Navy guy.

That's like collecting millions and millions of those old paper coupons that said "cash value 1/20 of a cent".

Came for this also.

The navy paid 27 cents/copy. The lesson here for government agencies is to just steal IP and then maybe a few years on pay pennies for it.

Would love to see contract no. N62583-12-P-0767 so I can understand "ENABLED BY NAVFAC USING
FLEXERA SOFTWARE'S FLEXWRAP UTILITY OF THE ADMIN STUDIO SOFTWARE SUITE."

Sounds like a distributor got paid and possibly agreed to let the Navy do whatever it wanted.


As per the decision, the Navy had a license to install it wherever they wanted but had to include the Flexera software to track users (and limit it's to the use to the number of licenses). Basically the Navy wanted the approved users to be able to use it on various machines without licensing all the machines as the number of machines would greatly exceed the number of users.

The Navy then disabled the Flexera software, which caused the infringement.
 
2022-11-24 1:28:08 AM  

dywed88: Langdon_777: The figure seems criminally low.  Event if we go buy the bullshiat $200 per install price the Navy's accountant pulled out of his butt.

First, it isn't per install, the Navy had license to install the software, it is for the usage. When the original license was agreed to, the Navy wouldn't accept a per install license because they knew that it would be used by a relatively small number of personnel but on many machines, so the company agreed to let the Navy install it on many machines and use software to ensure they didn't exceed the number of licenses in use.

Second, the company's expert said $259 per license (based on a $350 figure proposed in negotiations, that broke down, for software and a volume discount) and the Navy said $200 (based on the $300 the Navy did pay less a discount for the much larger volume).

Finally, the amount is calculated assuming everyone who ever used the software was a simultaneous user and the judge added on the 100 licenses that the Navy was negotiating for but did not purchase.


Thanks for the long and detailed reply.  I do not thin $157k would even pay for the lawyers.
 
2022-11-24 1:32:04 AM  

morg: Three Crooked Squirrels: This is a win for the Navy. The company sued for $600M, claiming the product was worth about $1K each for over 500,000 copies. Then the Navy expert put the value at $200 per. So the Navy's own expert put the total at $100M, not $600M.

And in the end, they paid $154,000. I wouldn't even call that a slap on the wrist. That's like about a tenth of a penny on the dollar even if you believe the Navy guy.

That's like collecting millions and millions of those old paper coupons that said "cash value 1/20 of a cent".

That's a little odd to me. The navy was dumb enough to put pirated software in their default workstation build yet somehow smart enough to maintain logs over the years for how many instances of the illegal install were actually used? Maybe the software requires a license key to activate and they tracked how many times the key was issued. Depending on how the key is distributed that number could be bogus too.


I was curious and skimmed the judgement. The Navy is playing both sides of the fence with their argument. On the one hand they argue the Navy should only have to pay for the 635 copies actually used versus the total number of copies installed because of vague terms in their initial agreement. But where things get sketchy is the Navy also argues had they purchased the licenses up front they would have likely negotiated a volume discount as they had done historically with other enterprise software vendors and should only have to pay this hypothetically negotiated volume discount price. That's how the account arrived at the lower per license prices, even though this event never occurred. But I seriously doubt they would have gotten that volume discount to begin with for only 635 copies.
 
2022-11-24 1:33:12 AM  

Rage Against the Thorazine: morg: Three Crooked Squirrels: This is a win for the Navy. The company sued for $600M, claiming the product was worth about $1K each for over 500,000 copies. Then the Navy expert put the value at $200 per. So the Navy's own expert put the total at $100M, not $600M.

And in the end, they paid $154,000. I wouldn't even call that a slap on the wrist. That's like about a tenth of a penny on the dollar even if you believe the Navy guy.

That's like collecting millions and millions of those old paper coupons that said "cash value 1/20 of a cent".

That's a little odd to me. The navy was dumb enough to put pirated software in their default workstation build yet somehow smart enough to maintain logs over the years for how many instances of the illegal install were actually used? Maybe the software requires a license key to activate and they tracked how many times the key was issued. Depending on how the key is distributed that number could be bogus too.

I was curious and skimmed the judgement. The Navy is playing both sides of the fence with their argument. On the one hand they argue the Navy should only have to pay for the 635 copies actually used versus the total number of copies installed because of vague terms in their initial agreement. But where things get sketchy is the Navy also argues had they purchased the licenses up front they would have likely negotiated a volume discount as they had done historically with other enterprise software vendors and should only have to pay this hypothetically negotiated volume discount price. That's how the account arrived at the lower per license prices, even though this event never occurred. But I seriously doubt they would have gotten that volume discount to begin with for only 635 copies.


The same volume discount was included by the plaintiff's expert.
 
2022-11-24 1:34:55 AM  

indy_kid: dongle


Dongles can be emulated with a crack and become useless. That's how I used 3D Studio back in the 90s when I was dirt ass poor.
 
2022-11-24 1:37:48 AM  
I was in charge of a ship's network back in 2018, the Navy loves to pirate or use....innovative methods of acquiring programs.  I just figured it was par for the course with stupid amounts of grift from contractors and shipbuilders, just us returning the favor.
 
2022-11-24 1:39:10 AM  

dywed88: Steakzilla: Target Builder: Three Crooked Squirrels: This is a win for the Navy. The company sued for $600M, claiming the product was worth about $1K each for over 500,000 copies. Then the Navy expert put the value at $200 per. So the Navy's own expert put the total at $100M, not $600M.

And in the end, they paid $154,000. I wouldn't even call that a slap on the wrist. That's like about a tenth of a penny on the dollar even if you believe the Navy guy.

That's like collecting millions and millions of those old paper coupons that said "cash value 1/20 of a cent".

Came for this also.

The navy paid 27 cents/copy. The lesson here for government agencies is to just steal IP and then maybe a few years on pay pennies for it.

Would love to see contract no. N62583-12-P-0767 so I can understand "ENABLED BY NAVFAC USING
FLEXERA SOFTWARE'S FLEXWRAP UTILITY OF THE ADMIN STUDIO SOFTWARE SUITE."

Sounds like a distributor got paid and possibly agreed to let the Navy do whatever it wanted.

As per the decision, the Navy had a license to install it wherever they wanted but had to include the Flexera software to track users (and limit it's to the use to the number of licenses). Basically the Navy wanted the approved users to be able to use it on various machines without licensing all the machines as the number of machines would greatly exceed the number of users.

The Navy then disabled the Flexera software, which caused the infringement.


It's funny though that the company only knew how many installs there were because the Navy told them.  And yea they probably didn't want the other software for security reasons.  Some of our licenses never check in with the vendor for this reason.  Offline installs with offline licensing.  Of course we could abuse the fark out of it but don't.
 
2022-11-24 1:41:48 AM  

indy_kid: The last time that company will get a government contract. They're not the only software developer out there.

Had they been one of three or four possible vendors, it would have been a $5B deal for the company.

/I'm looking at you, Boeing and Lockheed.
//Incorporate a dongle into your software.
///Go Navy! Beat Army!


Plugging a dongle into a USB port is a great way to get murdered by whoever is in charge of the network.  Hell one of my favorite memories is still throwing QMCS' phone off the bridgewing after he brought it into a secure space for the umpteenth time.

/IT will cut a biatch if need be.
 
2022-11-24 2:00:24 AM  

Steakzilla: Target Builder: Three Crooked Squirrels: This is a win for the Navy. The company sued for $600M, claiming the product was worth about $1K each for over 500,000 copies. Then the Navy expert put the value at $200 per. So the Navy's own expert put the total at $100M, not $600M.

And in the end, they paid $154,000. I wouldn't even call that a slap on the wrist. That's like about a tenth of a penny on the dollar even if you believe the Navy guy.

That's like collecting millions and millions of those old paper coupons that said "cash value 1/20 of a cent".

Came for this also.

The navy paid 27 cents/copy. The lesson here for government agencies is to just steal IP and then maybe a few years on pay pennies for it.

Would love to see contract no. N62583-12-P-0767 so I can understand "ENABLED BY NAVFAC USING
FLEXERA SOFTWARE'S FLEXWRAP UTILITY OF THE ADMIN STUDIO SOFTWARE SUITE."

Sounds like a distributor got paid and possibly agreed to let the Navy do whatever it wanted.


Flexera is a software tracking service, used VERY commonly in the commercial space. Admin Studio is a software packaging suite used to create distribution packages for enterprise deployments. Basically what it says is we're going to take your software, package it up, and wrap a license manager around it so we can track and billback for the use of it. Very standard stuff.
 
2022-11-24 2:07:59 AM  

dywed88: Rage Against the Thorazine: morg: Three Crooked Squirrels: This is a win for the Navy. The company sued for $600M, claiming the product was worth about $1K each for over 500,000 copies. Then the Navy expert put the value at $200 per. So the Navy's own expert put the total at $100M, not $600M.

And in the end, they paid $154,000. I wouldn't even call that a slap on the wrist. That's like about a tenth of a penny on the dollar even if you believe the Navy guy.

That's like collecting millions and millions of those old paper coupons that said "cash value 1/20 of a cent".

That's a little odd to me. The navy was dumb enough to put pirated software in their default workstation build yet somehow smart enough to maintain logs over the years for how many instances of the illegal install were actually used? Maybe the software requires a license key to activate and they tracked how many times the key was issued. Depending on how the key is distributed that number could be bogus too.

I was curious and skimmed the judgement. The Navy is playing both sides of the fence with their argument. On the one hand they argue the Navy should only have to pay for the 635 copies actually used versus the total number of copies installed because of vague terms in their initial agreement. But where things get sketchy is the Navy also argues had they purchased the licenses up front they would have likely negotiated a volume discount as they had done historically with other enterprise software vendors and should only have to pay this hypothetically negotiated volume discount price. That's how the account arrived at the lower per license prices, even though this event never occurred. But I seriously doubt they would have gotten that volume discount to begin with for only 635 copies.

The same volume discount was included by the plaintiff's expert.


Well I did just skim it so there's a more than better chance I missed that.
 
2022-11-24 2:34:23 AM  
Gitmo any lawyers for the company that cause a problem.

Problem solved.
 
2022-11-24 2:36:28 AM  

AmbassadorBooze: Gitmo any lawyers for the company that cause a problem.

Problem solved.


With all your solutions, Gitmo is getting pretty crowded.
 
2022-11-24 2:49:11 AM  

Gyrfalcon: AmbassadorBooze: Gitmo any lawyers for the company that cause a problem.

Problem solved.

With all your solutions, Gitmo is getting pretty crowded.


Well, we need less problem makers.

Problem solved
 
2022-11-24 3:01:21 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Ghastly: Okay, who's got the lash? Who's got the run? I'll bring the sodomy.

Can you "bring" sodomy or merely "provide" it?

Just asking.


Trust me, if anyone on Fark can "bring the sodomy" to your etymological satisfaction, Ghastly can.
 
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