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(Gizmodo)   "We're talking about billions of dollars in internet infrastructure. It's a farce that the FCC isn't regulating broadband as a telecommunications service," TL;DR: you're most likely getting boned on your broadband. 'Obvious' tag is comcastic   (gizmodo.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Internet service provider, Broadband Internet access, Wi-Fi, Internet exchange point, internet service providers, Internet service providers, unprecedented study, internet bills  
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447 clicks; posted to Business » on 17 Nov 2022 at 10:22 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



21 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-11-17 10:07:14 AM  
Price broadband snd phone service in Europe. Yeah, Americans are getting ripped off.
 
2022-11-17 10:24:17 AM  
*gives telecoms annual trillions in tax payer money to bring America rural broadband*
 
2022-11-17 10:28:11 AM  
Can we just scrap the 1996 Telco act finally?

/OTOH, I'm paying under $50/mo for true 1Gb service so....
 
2022-11-17 10:46:53 AM  
At this point, the government should seriously invest in 5G for easy wide deployment of broadband. Hell of a lot easier than running and maintaining cable lines to rural areas. I think wireless internet is finally good enough to be a viable option as long as a tower is somewhere nearby.
 
2022-11-17 10:54:45 AM  
Currently paying $20 per month for Spectrum wired internet, 2 year contract.  I think they are starting to see the  spread of 5G internet in urban areas and are trying to grab what they can from their current infrastructure investment.
 
2022-11-17 11:03:08 AM  

NeoCortex42: At this point, the government should seriously invest in 5G for easy wide deployment of broadband. Hell of a lot easier than running and maintaining cable lines to rural areas. I think wireless internet is finally good enough to be a viable option as long as a tower is somewhere nearby.


You still need cable, and a LOT of cable. Plus then you need transmission towers, all that equipment, plus network equipment, and so on. Really 5G isn't that much cheaper anymore with improved drills. Unless you let yourself get ripped off, drilling in the country is far cheaper than drilling in town, less to worry about as well.

Of course sometimes you have a pissed off farmer who doesn't like the pedestal on his property and proceeds to knock it over tearin gup the fiber. He then knocks out two cell towers, innumerable businesses, on that loop further east, plus a fair number of homes. LOL I don't want to see that guy's bill... it's probably going to (literally) cost him the farm.
 
2022-11-17 11:05:28 AM  
So much rent-seeking.

The way it ought to be: municipalities own and are responsible for installing/maintaining dark fiber physical plant to each residence, similar to the way water and sewer are handled. The head end is a POP available to ISPs who rent rack space. Customers get to pick an ISP and the cross-connect is done at the POP.

This business of each ISP having to run its own fiber on poles is stupid.
 
2022-11-17 11:10:23 AM  

NeoCortex42: At this point, the government should seriously invest in 5G for easy wide deployment of broadband. Hell of a lot easier than running and maintaining cable lines to rural areas. I think wireless internet is finally good enough to be a viable option as long as a tower is somewhere nearby.


5G is very short range though. Better 4G equipment is a better choice. It can hit 200 Mbps. The old equipment is limited by capacity and it's shared bandwidth.

BTW higher bandwidth is only useful for single large files. Baud rate is consistent so lots of small files still take awhile.
Most people, and some asshole who doesn't know how to monitor such things will want to argue about it, rarely use what they are paying for.
 
2022-11-17 11:10:25 AM  

NeoCortex42: At this point, the government should seriously invest in 5G for easy wide deployment of broadband. Hell of a lot easier than running and maintaining cable lines to rural areas. I think wireless internet is finally good enough to be a viable option as long as a tower is somewhere nearby.


We're trying!
-The CDC: "Working for you"
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-11-17 11:22:42 AM  

edmo: Price broadband snd phone service in Europe. Yeah, Americans are getting ripped off.


Its all that freedumb
 
2022-11-17 11:24:32 AM  

vudukungfu: *gives telecoms annual trillions in tax payer money to bring America rural broadband*


Me thinks me smells a scheme coming......
 
2022-11-17 11:25:59 AM  

enry: Can we just scrap the 1996 Telco act finally?

/OTOH, I'm paying under $50/mo for true 1Gb service so....


Bastard

Someone always throws a turd in the gigabit punchbowl
 
2022-11-17 11:27:51 AM  

inglixthemad: NeoCortex42: At this point, the government should seriously invest in 5G for easy wide deployment of broadband. Hell of a lot easier than running and maintaining cable lines to rural areas. I think wireless internet is finally good enough to be a viable option as long as a tower is somewhere nearby.

You still need cable, and a LOT of cable. Plus then you need transmission towers, all that equipment, plus network equipment, and so on. Really 5G isn't that much cheaper anymore with improved drills. Unless you let yourself get ripped off, drilling in the country is far cheaper than drilling in town, less to worry about as well.

Of course sometimes you have a pissed off farmer who doesn't like the pedestal on his property and proceeds to knock it over tearin gup the fiber. He then knocks out two cell towers, innumerable businesses, on that loop further east, plus a fair number of homes. LOL I don't want to see that guy's bill... it's probably going to (literally) cost him the farm.


Fiber > copper > wifi > celltower > satelite > dialup
 
2022-11-17 11:43:19 AM  

Linux_Yes: enry: Can we just scrap the 1996 Telco act finally?

/OTOH, I'm paying under $50/mo for true 1Gb service so....

Bastard

Someone always throws a turd in the gigabit punchbowl


I wound up on a contract with one of their crazy promo rates, the contract expired, and they never changed the rates so as long as I don't make any changes to my service I'll probably get this until some bean counter finds it.
 
2022-11-17 12:26:00 PM  
LOL, good luck with that after Republicans start running the House again. It's almost like elections have consequences.
 
2022-11-17 12:28:03 PM  
We need a national gigabit fiber initiative. Time to start leading instead of being led by the cable companies.

Coax has been dead for a long time.
 
2022-11-17 12:50:18 PM  

Linux_Yes: vudukungfu: *gives telecoms annual trillions in tax payer money to bring America rural broadband*

Me thinks me smells a scheme coming......


Every year
 
2022-11-17 2:54:28 PM  

NeoCortex42: At this point, the government should seriously invest in 5G for easy wide deployment of broadband. Hell of a lot easier than running and maintaining cable lines to rural areas. I think wireless internet is finally good enough to be a viable option as long as a tower is somewhere nearby.


Warning: there's a math test at the end

Ok... Let's compare GPON with the version of 5G that actually covers an area (ie. not MMWave).

5G theoretical sector performance for any reasonable spectrum allocation tops out at ~500mbits/sec.  That covers anywhere from 1 to 3 miles in radius, a 6 sector tower is covering 28 square miles, or ~4.5 square miles per sector.  Where I live, that translates into ~6000 households being covered per sector.  In the "not most densely populated state in the US", it's closer to 400 per sector.  That means that 500mbit/sec is going to be sliced up between those 400 potential customers.  That assumes however 100% effectiveness of that bandwidth.  When dealing with that many potential stations... try 60%.  Spectrum efficiency even in 5G sucks badly.  So 300mbit/sec of realizable throughput divided among the subscribers in that area.

Now let's talk GPON.  Each transceiver in the widely deployed current gen is 10Gbits/sec with about a 7% haircut for overhead (packet size, framing, etc..).  So effectively 9.3Gbits/sec achievable throughput.  In a worst case deployment that gets split among 64 houses, with a good number of carriers settling on 32 so they can offer multi-gig services in the future (or currently) to their subscribers.  Oh, and that platform can be easily upgraded to 25Gbit/sec, and with some fancy optics to 100G+.  You can also run multiple wavelengths over that infrastructure to get dedicated links added on.  But we'll stay with the "normal" deployment today - or 9.3Gbit/sec of available throughput.

So the comparison:

300mbit/sec over 400 subscribers

or

9.3Gbit/sec over 64 subscribers

You do the math.

Oh, and a single OLT for GPON can cover approximately a 9 mile radius area - you need a lot fewer of them to do a wide deployment than you would need cell towers.  And unlike spectrum, if you "need more" you just install more.  No going and begging the FCC to offer up more spectrum.

Also, long term maintenance of GPON fiber has been found to be on approximately the same order of magnitude of maintaining POTS lines, with the costs coming down.  That's measured "per subscriber".  I don't even want to think about the per bit/sec cost comparison.  That's why you are seeing sub $100/month subscription plans for 1G service all over the place.
 
2022-11-17 3:12:37 PM  

Flowery Twats: We need a national gigabit fiber initiative. Time to start leading instead of being led by the cable companies.

Coax has been dead for a long time.


DOCSIS 3.1 isn't terrible.  You can get effective 1G service on that platform.  And yes, Coax as a distribution platform has been dead... since the mid 2000s no cable carrier in the US has been using it.  The "last foot" to your house is Coax, plus a few 1000 feet on the poles near you.  Maybe 200 houses are attached to that segment of Coax, but for DOCSIS 3.1 that drops to ~100.  Hybrid Fiber/Coax has pretty much been the standard for cable companies for over 20 years, and all the signals on that have been digital since the 90s.

Even though the "upgrade" is a point release from DOCSIS 3.0, it is actually a completely different implementation.  The big change is in spectrum management on the Coax part of the platform.  Instead of retaining the legacy 6 MHz channel bandwidths, DOCSIS 3.1 introduced variable width channels, which leads to significant improvements.  So where DOCSIS 3.0 could just about eek out 1Gbit/sec over the houses passed, DOCSIS 3.1 manages 10Gbit/sec.  Also, the max segment size for the Coax part of the platform essentially got cut in half, which reduces the number of subscribers that will compete for a slice of that now much larger chunk of BW.

So the problem isn't the kind of wire that comes to the house - it's the kinds of traffic management policies implemented by the broadband service provider.
 
2022-11-17 3:46:19 PM  

MadHatter500: Also, long term maintenance of GPON fiber has been found to be on approximately the same order of magnitude of maintaining POTS lines, with the costs coming down.  That's measured "per subscriber".  I don't even want to think about the per bit/sec cost comparison.  That's why you are seeing sub $100/month subscription plans for 1G service all over the place.


Our CLEC did the same math and that's why they kept deploying fiber instead of switching to Fixed Wireless.

By our main house, TDS is now delivering 2G symmetric (in theory lol) FttP with XGS-PON.

Fiber has gotten ridiculously cheap to put in the ground with the newest generation of equipment.
 
2022-11-17 5:49:16 PM  

Linux_Yes: enry: Can we just scrap the 1996 Telco act finally?

/OTOH, I'm paying under $50/mo for true 1Gb service so....

Bastard

Someone always throws a turd in the gigabit punchbowl


Yeah, well, I *might* have fiber by 2026
 
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