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(Forbes)   NASA sets early Wednesday morning EST as date of next failed Artemis launch   (forbes.com) divider line
    More: Followup, NASA, launch of its landmark Artemis, Kennedy Space Center, late August, space agency NASA, planned launch of Artemis, Rocket, early September  
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258 clicks; posted to STEM » on 13 Nov 2022 at 1:11 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-11-13 1:40:19 PM  
Artemis, make Wickwick proud!
 
2022-11-13 1:51:40 PM  
As horrid as the SLS has been, space fans have a vested interest in this working.

Boom could mean the end of the program. If it goes on, eventually cheaper transportation (possibly Starship) will replace it when some congress critter not in a district supported by SLS asks why a cheaper rocket is not in use.
 
2022-11-13 2:24:42 PM  

TheMysteriousStranger: Boom could mean the end of the program.


We can only hope.
 
2022-11-13 2:26:02 PM  
If it doesn't go off this week, it's not going to.  Parts of the booster are going to start expiring next week.  A solid rocket booster is only certified by NASA to stay stacked for 12 months.  They've already done a bunch of hand-waving and extended the shelf life of this one to 23 months.  Unlikely they're going to extend it again.
 
2022-11-13 2:59:35 PM  
I hope to God they get it right this time. Dad was in town last week, and we visited the Kennedy Space Center. They had the Artemis merch out. The video on the bus ride to and from the Apollo/Saturn V Center talked about it. They're all pretty amped for this thing to finally do a space after all the delays and cost overruns. A scrub Wednesday would be heartbreaking.
 
2022-11-13 3:00:07 PM  
What factors determine the use-by dates for the SRBs? Chemical aging? Geometry changes? Mold? Handwavium radiation exposure?

Anyway, here are a few of my NARS-WAGs for failures, mostly due to the storm exposure:

SRB hold-down bolt pyro under/non-performance

Umbilical or stabilization arm retraction issues

Main engine thrust vectoring underperformance/failure

Foam insulation loss

Birbs
 
2022-11-13 3:09:40 PM  
I am a bit concerned about the solid rocket motors' joints. They were only certified until Dec. 2021.
 
2022-11-13 4:10:31 PM  

natazha: I am a bit concerned about the solid rocket motors' joints. They were only certified until Dec. 2021.


Joints?

Like the O rings?

I thought they changed the design so the expansion of lower elements helped to seal the joint rather than open it like the challenger disaster.

Or is there something else unstable about them?
 
2022-11-13 5:12:33 PM  

Oneiros: natazha: I am a bit concerned about the solid rocket motors' joints. They were only certified until Dec. 2021.

Joints?

Like the O rings?

I thought they changed the design so the expansion of lower elements helped to seal the joint rather than open it like the challenger disaster.

Or is there something else unstable about them?


I think the most unstable element at this point is the rocket manufacturer, Boeing. From the makers of the 777 jet failure, the 737 max, etc.

Boeing is a shell of their former self. I cannot see how this can end in success. I can't count the number of pushbacks or keep track of failure reasons at this point. A successful launch on the 14th would be less likely than winning Powerball, I expect.
 
2022-11-14 12:10:57 AM  

Oneiros: natazha: I am a bit concerned about the solid rocket motors' joints. They were only certified until Dec. 2021.

Joints?

Like the O rings?

I thought they changed the design so the expansion of lower elements helped to seal the joint rather than open it like the challenger disaster.

Or is there something else unstable about them?


The O-rings are still there, though modified and redesigned.  The SRBs are too big to manufacture and ship in one piece (since they have to be made in the "right" Congressional District, not near the SLS integration point).

However, I think this refers to the seams in the solid propellant, since they are not cast in a single pour (unless I understand it wrong, which is a possibility).

Add to that the fact that those things are supposed to be stored horizontally, not vertically.  The longer they're stacked vertically, the greater the chance of cracks developing in the solid propellant - which can do *really* unfortunate things to the burn.

Tick-Tick.
 
2022-11-14 1:08:53 AM  

Larva Lump: What factors determine the use-by dates for the SRBs? Chemical aging? Geometry changes? Mold? Handwavium radiation exposure?



They really don't know

Used to be for the SRB sections it was 5 years in storage with proper rotation.  1 year for stacked SRB sections.  the current SLS boosters have been stacked since May of last year.  In the stacked position the propellant begins to sag over time causing the mating surfaces between the segments to unmate. This renders the booster unusable. So they need to inspect, do a probability risk assessment and re-certify

since it is unmanned, and there are lot of Senators looking for a new pork project, there is a bit of "Go fever" involved to launch the SLS even if there is a higher risk of RUD

Fark user imageView Full Size


The storm already caused some insulation to peel off according to the latest briefing, (darker stripe in the red box) so there might be an issue of insulation falling down and damaging the booster on launch.

there are a LOT of things that can go wrong.  Going to be exciting to see this launch and have a higher risk of RUD
 
2022-11-14 1:14:43 AM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: Tick-Tick.


The SRB grain(s) are single chunks per segment, but have to mate to each other seamlessly lest there be unwanted burn paths with all the unpleasantness that entails. Since the material is a mix of finely-divided solids (aluminum and some kind of perchlorate oxidizer) in a polymer matrix it may be subject to shrinkage and/or distortion over time as any volatiles present escape, or gravity does its thing. Especially concerning would be gaps opening if the material un-sticks from the casing.
 
2022-11-14 6:42:15 AM  

Larva Lump: What factors determine the use-by dates for the SRBs? Chemical aging? Geometry changes? Mold? Handwavium radiation exposure?

Anyway, here are a few of my NARS-WAGs for failures, mostly due to the storm exposure:

SRB hold-down bolt pyro under/non-performance

Umbilical or stabilization arm retraction issues

Main engine thrust vectoring underperformance/failure

Foam insulation loss

Birbs


Im thinking unexpected POGO due to overlooked resonances, and then structural failure from the resulting fatigue stresses.
 
2022-11-14 7:50:46 AM  

kkinnison: The storm already caused some insulation to peel off according to the latest briefing,


Specifically, it is a 2" thick, 10' long bead of RTV silicone.

Theoretically, if it peeled off they COULD shoot a fresh bead in there.  RTV is not exactly high-tech stuff; your car's engine likely have a good amount of it in there keeping various spurts from happening.  A couple of $20 tubes and she'd be right as rain!
 
2022-11-14 10:01:17 AM  
FTFA:
The Space Launch System (SLS) rocket and the Orion capsule-already on the launch pad-experienced 100 mph winds, which is higher than the 85 mph the hardware is designed to cope with, said NASA.

But pre-hurricane, Fark Space Launch Experts assured us all that because the rocket goes more than 85 mph after liftoff, hurricane force winds were NBD!
 
2022-11-14 3:28:18 PM  

TTFK: kkinnison: The storm already caused some insulation to peel off according to the latest briefing,

Specifically, it is a 2" thick, 10' long bead of RTV silicone.

Theoretically, if it peeled off they COULD shoot a fresh bead in there.  RTV is not exactly high-tech stuff; your car's engine likely have a good amount of it in there keeping various spurts from happening.  A couple of $20 tubes and she'd be right as rain!


Except that apparently they don't have a way of getting a human to that location.

(Back in the Apollo days, they'd just have somebody up there with ropes or whatever.... visit the little space museum in Titusville if you'r ever in town; some of the guys who got stuck doing that kind of crazy shiat still volunteer as docents there.)
 
2022-11-14 6:29:42 PM  

dbirchall: Except that apparently they don't have a way of getting a human to that location.

(Back in the Apollo days, they'd just have somebody up there with ropes or whatever.... visit the little space museum in Titusville if you'r ever in town; some of the guys who got stuck doing that kind of crazy shiat still volunteer as docents there.)


They're gonna need one hell of a cherry picker.
 
2022-11-14 7:11:24 PM  
Looking forward to this.

CSB:
In my younger days, I worked on projects to dispose of expired solid-fueled rocket engines. The main issue with just burning them was that the exhaust gas contained asbestos. One plan was to fire Shillelagh rockets into a huge HEPA filter. The project unfortunately had tech and office politics issues and got canceled. The other project fired a Nike Hercules motor in a big artificial underground cavern. We pulled back a fair distance for this one, because if the propellant grain had any cracks, then it switched from burning to high-order detonation.
 
2022-11-14 7:56:45 PM  
If SLS has an RUD and the Orion capsule's LAS works as designed, is there any chance NASA contracts with someone who actually knows how to build reliable rockets for the remainder of the Artemis program?
 
2022-11-14 9:49:07 PM  

Olympic Trolling Judge: dbirchall: Except that apparently they don't have a way of getting a human to that location.

(Back in the Apollo days, they'd just have somebody up there with ropes or whatever.... visit the little space museum in Titusville if you'r ever in town; some of the guys who got stuck doing that kind of crazy shiat still volunteer as docents there.)

They're gonna need one hell of a cherry picker.


They've already stated that if they have to work on that particular RTV piece, they have to roll it back to the VAB.

My money is on 'Someone will say they're good as it sits'.

I believe I've already heard that "Oh, everything is still sealed just fine, this outer piece is just to smooth out the air flow".
 
2022-11-14 10:56:56 PM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: Olympic Trolling Judge: dbirchall: Except that apparently they don't have a way of getting a human to that location.

(Back in the Apollo days, they'd just have somebody up there with ropes or whatever.... visit the little space museum in Titusville if you'r ever in town; some of the guys who got stuck doing that kind of crazy shiat still volunteer as docents there.)

They're gonna need one hell of a cherry picker.

They've already stated that if they have to work on that particular RTV piece, they have to roll it back to the VAB.

My money is on 'Someone will say they're good as it sits'.

I believe I've already heard that "Oh, everything is still sealed just fine, this outer piece is just to smooth out the air flow".


Well, at least NASA has a perfect record of good judgement in decisions involving insulating materials.
 
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