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(AP News)   Online schooling is causing kids to fall behind. Some parents are regretting it   (apnews.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, High school, daughter's Boston school district, pandemic school closures, school work, health officials, former honor-roll student, Preliminary test scores, risk of missing education  
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1874 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Oct 2022 at 11:35 AM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-10-21 9:59:17 AM  
Kids need the interaction of school. We need to help them develop social skills.
 
2022-10-21 10:06:34 AM  
They run the risk of never learning to read,

Seriously? NEVER learning to read?

Give it a rest.
 
2022-10-21 11:37:25 AM  
Yeah, but at least if they stay home they can use the cat's litterbox instead of having the school install one.
 
2022-10-21 11:38:13 AM  
So Betsy DeVos K-12 stuff and other online stuff made by "experts"?
 
2022-10-21 11:38:25 AM  
Every one of us who taught through that virtual learning year during the pandemic could've told you online schooling doesn't work. But, snake oil salesmen are gonna sell it anyway.
 
2022-10-21 11:38:46 AM  
Online schooling is causing "some" kids to fall behind. "Some parents" are regretting it
Fixed that.

It's always been that way 'some' kids do not do well, but they can still end up as president.
 
TWX
2022-10-21 11:40:31 AM  
It's almost like until a basic set of skills is achieved, people need to more directly interact with their teachers to learn.

I get the feeling that 'online school' in many cases the refuge for parents that believe the lies about public school but aren't willing to put forth the effort to personally homeschool their children either.  Therefore in many cases the kids get as much out of it as was committed to it.
 
2022-10-21 11:40:57 AM  
Antivaxxers liked this.
 
2022-10-21 11:41:36 AM  

kdawg7736: Kids need the interaction of school. We need to help them develop social skills.


This is flawed.  You can develop social skills in a primarily remote setting, in fact, many people do these days.  Where people fall short is realizing that you can learn the same skills but in different ways.  Square peg, round hole, etc.

What kids need is parents not sensationalizing every portion of their life, reinforced by clickbait media, all telling them that everything is coming to an end and that they SHOULD be traumatized.
 
2022-10-21 11:42:31 AM  
It's a problem exacerbated by the need for high quality internet for today's educational purposes. Streaming lectures that require real-time attendance need robust and consistent upload and download. People in rural areas don't get that, because it's much cheaper for the ISPs to build and maintain 3 miles of line to serve 4,000 people than it is for 30 miles of line to serve 400 people. Thus, kids in rural areas are left behind while their suburban and urban peers flourish.
 
TWX
2022-10-21 11:43:28 AM  

Aetre: Every one of us who taught through that virtual learning year during the pandemic could've told you online schooling doesn't work. But, snake oil salesmen are gonna sell it anyway.


Of course.  They saw how profitable it was to take money while failing to provide higher education and then blame the students for poor results, why not expand their profits on K12 as well?
 
2022-10-21 11:44:06 AM  
My kid did fine.  Her teacher was a blessing and should be made a saint. She and us are happy she's back in class now, but it didn't have to be a disaster for some kids.

And for farks sake change the batteries in your smoke detector.
 
2022-10-21 11:44:24 AM  

Aetre: Every one of us who taught through that virtual learning year during the pandemic could've told you online schooling doesn't work. But, snake oil salesmen are gonna sell it anyway.


Online education is a last resort. We accepted that for one year. It's time to put it away unless absolutely needed again.
 
2022-10-21 11:44:58 AM  
I am friends with a second grade teacher.
Last year the kids were feral in every possible way. Body fluids, property destruction, fights, refusal to listen, swearing, and more.

This year her class has done in person K and 1st grade so they have been socialized according to the standard schedule.

This pandemic cohort of remote learners is going to progress through the school system like a mongol horde.
 
2022-10-21 11:45:00 AM  

willabr: Online schooling is causing "some" kids to fall behind. "Some parents" are regretting it
Fixed that.

It's always been that way 'some' kids do not do well, but they can still end up as president.


Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too.
 
2022-10-21 11:45:41 AM  

kdawg7736: Kids need the interaction of school. We need to help them develop social skills.


so that they can waste it on playing on their cell phones with social media sites.

I find the younger generation these days so many of them lack social skills when in public is appalling.

Go to the check out line of the supermarket on a slow day...the cashier is always holding their phones and typing away frantically. I know what they are typing.

"Ugh, so bored here at work, can't wait to get off, so I can go home and text on my phone"
 
TWX
2022-10-21 11:45:55 AM  

baronbloodbath: It's a problem exacerbated by the need for high quality internet for today's educational purposes. Streaming lectures that require real-time attendance need robust and consistent upload and download. People in rural areas don't get that, because it's much cheaper for the ISPs to build and maintain 3 miles of line to serve 4,000 people than it is for 30 miles of line to serve 400 people. Thus, kids in rural areas are left behind while their suburban and urban peers flourish.


So swap those 10Gb optics on the backbone for 25Gb or 100Gb, or even better, use multicast for the stream.
 
2022-10-21 11:46:07 AM  

baronbloodbath: It's a problem exacerbated by the need for high quality internet for today's educational purposes. Streaming lectures that require real-time attendance need robust and consistent upload and download. People in rural areas don't get that, because it's much cheaper for the ISPs to build and maintain 3 miles of line to serve 4,000 people than it is for 30 miles of line to serve 400 people. Thus, kids in rural areas are left behind while their suburban and urban peers flourish.


That house in the sticks isn't the bargain people think it is. They have to drive longer for everything, pretty much all utilities are worse, and some services just aren't available at all.
 
2022-10-21 11:47:18 AM  
Online did not work for my stepson. Less accountability, less motivation, worse results.
 
2022-10-21 11:47:18 AM  
This and thousands of other stories are certainly true.  I'm a teacher and I can tell you we can still see the effects of online schooling on the student population.  There is, without a doubt a deficit that needs to be made up.

But...

Magic wand in hand: How many people are you willing to kill to erase that deficit by going back in time, allowing schools to be super-spreader sites where kids take Covid back and forth from home to school to home in a reinforcing spreading cycle.


I can promise you its way more than a few extra deaths...
 
2022-10-21 11:48:14 AM  

Glorious Golden Ass: My kid did fine.  Her teacher was a blessing and should be made a saint. She and us are happy she's back in class now, but it didn't have to be a disaster for some kids.

And for farks sake change the batteries in your smoke detector.


I think kids that are good students will do fine at home and others need to be in school just like work. Some thrived at home others just slacked off.  My sister has a step son that failed in 2020 because he needed to be in class, the other kids did great.
 
2022-10-21 11:49:49 AM  

kdawg7736: Kids need the interaction of school. We need to help them develop social skills.


But then where will we get more Farkers from?
 
hej
2022-10-21 11:50:58 AM  

NewportBarGuy: They run the risk of never learning to read,

Seriously? NEVER learning to read?

Give it a rest.


It turns out the internet is made entirely of meme images.
 
2022-10-21 11:51:05 AM  

TWX: Aetre: Every one of us who taught through that virtual learning year during the pandemic could've told you online schooling doesn't work. But, snake oil salesmen are gonna sell it anyway.

Of course.  They saw how profitable it was to take money while failing to provide higher education and then blame the students for poor results, why not expand their profits on K12 as well?


That, and there has long been a push by Republicans to try and replace teachers (who tend to do not so nice things like join unions that back Democrats) with what essentially amounts to a robot.
 
2022-10-21 11:53:42 AM  

kdawg7736: Kids need the interaction of school. We need to help them develop social skills.


They also need to live.

Closing schools was bad, and online was implemented so haphazardly across the thousands of school districts across the nation that many kids fell behind.  They are victims of the pandemic, but in a different way.

But the alternative would have been more death.   Period.

Ultimately, this is the price we're all going to pay for being unprepared and unwilling to adapt.
 
2022-10-21 11:54:33 AM  

Aetre: Every one of us who taught through that virtual learning year during the pandemic could've told you online schooling doesn't work. But, snake oil salesmen are gonna sell it anyway.


Lolno
Tho I admit the first year was a bit of a joke as the school was NOT an online school but was trying to figure it out on the run

Last year the teacher wasn't great, but that's no different than in person class
This year the teachers are great and my kids are doing great - the oldest has become very self sufficient and knows that he is free to do as he likes once his class work is done
Getting the social aspect has been a challenge but that's what play dates are for

We also go ride bikes and hike during "normal" school hours , and my kids are pretty accustomed to sleeping in - When my kid talks to other kids and describes the above, well I've never heard eleven year olds say "o my god" so seriously before

Also- none of us have been sick in almost three years
Oh ya and I don't need to buy them a bullet proof backpack for Active Shooter Drill day

But please do go on about what all they are missing
 
2022-10-21 11:56:10 AM  
When I hear about kids falling behind because of online schooling during the pandemic I first thought "How can kids be falling behind when everyone went through the same thing at the same time"?

But then, of course there's the socioeconomic aspect to the whole thing. I'm guessing people who had the means also had tutors and study pods for their kids, as well as environments in which they could learn and good internet access. And then on the other side some kids had to go through it without those things, possibly also without the support of a parent who was not in a job where WFH was possible.

Depressing.
 
2022-10-21 11:58:23 AM  

Aetre: Every one of us who taught through that virtual learning year during the pandemic could've told you online schooling doesn't work. But, snake oil salesmen are gonna sell it anyway.


Online education works just fine.  The problem we had was public schools were thrown into the deep end of the pool.

I work in higher ed, and my friend taught middle school.  We had numerous discussions about this exact topic in the early days of the pandemic.  Apart from students having chromebooks, they were scrambling to figure out how to get through the year.  We, on the other hand, already had a fully functioning online university up and running, so it was a relatively simple matter to spin up online classes across the board.
 
2022-10-21 11:58:31 AM  
I still agree with Judge Smalls. The world needs ditch diggers too.
 
2022-10-21 11:59:14 AM  
Almost forgot
How many parents are just sad at having to spend time with your kids

Maybe they should have stuck with dogs and cats - lock em up so you can go live your best life
 
2022-10-21 11:59:29 AM  
Whether it's fair to ask this or not, parents (who were also struggling to adapt) needed to play a much greater role in their child's education during the pandemic. Kids need structure and consistency, and that's really hard to provide through a video screen.

I taught college courses online during the pandemic and they went fine, all things considered, but my students had already had their wild, beautifully untamed spirits broken by The System before they got to me. That made things easier.
 
2022-10-21 12:00:19 PM  

monty666: When I hear about kids falling behind because of online schooling during the pandemic I first thought "How can kids be falling behind when everyone went through the same thing at the same time"?

But then, of course there's the socioeconomic aspect to the whole thing. I'm guessing people who had the means also had tutors and study pods for their kids, as well as environments in which they could learn and good internet access. And then on the other side some kids had to go through it without those things, possibly also without the support of a parent who was not in a job where WFH was possible.

Depressing.


Plus a certain percentage of kids were stuck at home all day listening to their parents tell them the entire thing was fake news and just the flu.  That couldn't be useful in any way to their education.
 
2022-10-21 12:01:50 PM  
Can we just say that on the whole, the government(s) were not prepared in any way, shape, or form for the logistical complexities of a global pandemic? 

Is remote learning ideal?  No.
Did it impact kids learning? Of course it did.
Did it cripple a generation for life?  No, that's bullshiat.

Did some excel? Yes.
Did some fail? Yes.
It's amazing how population curves work.

The bottom line is not enough kids were kept home from schools because the infrastructure didn't exist to make it feasible for the parents. Schools are too strapped to provide computing equipment to the students, in-roads into online public education systems for students have been half-assed, funded on a quarter, and no one was trained on how to use what little did exist before the pandemic. 

Did our society as a whole have the infrastructure in place for the parent(s) to come home and make sure their kid logged in to school every day on time?  Not even close. Is that the fault of the schools? Not even close.

It's not like 40+ years of de-funding education has prevented schools or teachers from supplying basic needs to the students in the first place. They can't afford pencils, but we expected them to drop a fully functional virtual education system in place over night with no money at all.  It's not like their lone IT guy who maintains 15 dust, snot and crayola covered budget Dells can't just click 'OK' and materialize a stable, fully functioning virtual education system out of thin air; That's what us IT guys do (so everyone thinks.)

The outcomes of everything listed above are pretty bad.  It's going to take some years to fully recover, but it will take less time than replacing all the corpses that would have resulted from the millions of plague rat brats spreading the disease over night and killing every 3rd teacher, lunch lady, bus driver, librarian, nurse, and principal in the educational system.

Did we do enough? No. Did we do it right? No. Were we prepared? No. Did we do what we could to keep the people around us alive?  Some of us did.

I'm sure that there was a slight dip in employment, productivity, and infrastructure management immediately following the black plague too. All in all, of all the centuries which to have experienced a global pandemic, I'm glad it's the one where the school IT teams COULD setup a virtual education system, as broken and glitchy as it was, in a few weeks and that a lot of us were able to protect ourselves and our kids families, it could have been a lot worse.

No quit biatching and get focused on picking shiat up and putting things back together better, maybe with some foresight that a plague will be happening again.
 
2022-10-21 12:09:15 PM  
It's not just "did online school work?" It's "did online school work during a pandemic?"

Teachers, admins, support staff, IT, etc were all getting sick, causing problems for online schooling. Families were sick and out of work. Over 1 in 330 Americans died. All of that has an impact.
 
2022-10-21 12:10:09 PM  

willabr: Online schooling is causing "some" kids to fall behind. "Some parents" are regretting it
Fixed that.

It's always been that way 'some' kids do not do well, but they can still end up as president.


This. Anything that differs from the status quo is compared to perfection, not the current status.
 
2022-10-21 12:10:25 PM  
"It is very easy with hindsight to say, 'Oh, learning loss, we should have opened.' People forget how many people died,"

DINGDINGDING

Also, if your kid goes from being an honor student to failing all their classes in the course of such a switch, there are other problems.

High school for me was 20 years ago (*shudder*), and by that point I'd taught myself networking, computer repair, basic programming, etc all just so I could play videogames and pirate movies. Half of my classes were in front of a computer during the school day, and any school assignment that wasn't done in-class had to be done on a computer.

It's funny how kids manage all sorts of other digital divides so well, often better than their parents and without instruction, and have done so for decades, but somehow learning algebra and reading they just fall apart at when confronted with Zoom...?

Given the availability of absolutely outstanding content on YouTube for free, on just about every academic subject and for almost any audience, delivered by both professional educators and the best minds on the planet in their fields, it's really hard to see where the problem is with remote learning, and not...home life.
 
2022-10-21 12:12:10 PM  
I am strong in English and science. My wife is strong in math. Our third grader is way ahead of what they are teaching her now that she's returned to the classroom. Oh, and we don't watch television. And my wife does CrossFit. And I'm a vegan.
 
2022-10-21 12:15:10 PM  

Glorious Golden Ass: My kid did fine.  Her teacher was a blessing and should be made a saint. She and us are happy she's back in class now, but it didn't have to be a disaster for some kids.

And for farks sake change the batteries in your smoke detector.


I have a daughter with a learning disability. She benefited tremendously once the school went back to in-person learning. My oldest was fine either way, however she now has to deal with a bully and has had two active shooter drills.

Shiat is not so simple as "in-person good, virtual bad."

The ruling class just wants to control the narrative and ensure the poors don't expect changes if another disease starts to kill us off.
 
2022-10-21 12:17:25 PM  

TWX: It's almost like until a basic set of skills is achieved, people need to more directly interact with their teachers to learn.

I get the feeling that 'online school' in many cases the refuge for parents that believe the lies about public school but aren't willing to put forth the effort to personally homeschool their children either.  Therefore in many cases the kids get as much out of it as was committed to it.


For our kiddos, it's the opposite.  My wife is a certified teacher.  All of our kiddos are in online school through the state.  The school provides the curriculum, materials, and lots of support.  They do grading, testing, lesson planning, etc.  My wife does a great deal of the hands on stuff until the kiddos get to advanced math/chemistry/or physics.  Then it's my turn to do the in person stuff.  Not a bad solution for us, but most homes probably don't come equipped with an unemployed homemaker who is also fully certified to teach with decades of experience in the classroom.  Also, because our school is very rural, my kiddos get the benefit of much greater opportunities at the statewide school, and none of the hazing (two of my girls are LGBTQ, well not all at once, but you get the idea).
 
2022-10-21 12:18:37 PM  

inner ted: Aetre: Every one of us who taught through that virtual learning year during the pandemic could've told you online schooling doesn't work. But, snake oil salesmen are gonna sell it anyway.

Lolno
Tho I admit the first year was a bit of a joke as the school was NOT an online school but was trying to figure it out on the run

Last year the teacher wasn't great, but that's no different than in person class
This year the teachers are great and my kids are doing great - the oldest has become very self sufficient and knows that he is free to do as he likes once his class work is done
Getting the social aspect has been a challenge but that's what play dates are for

We also go ride bikes and hike during "normal" school hours , and my kids are pretty accustomed to sleeping in - When my kid talks to other kids and describes the above, well I've never heard eleven year olds say "o my god" so seriously before

Also- none of us have been sick in almost three years
Oh ya and I don't need to buy them a bullet proof backpack for Active Shooter Drill day

But please do go on about what all they are missing


Wait till they're in college and have a fit because a brown person got something he wanted or was barred from a room because he's white or doesn't understand an art exhibit is a teaching tool to show what is art and what is garbage. You'll regret it when he's been removed from the college for racist sexist behavior. Then has to move back home with his love pillow. I saw the same thing before at my own college. Its not pretty the home schooled students were assholes who were angery and have undiagnosed mental health and learning and behavior disabilities. I had one guy who showed up to class every day in a tie and suit and acted better than. everyone else. Then he told the philosophy class women were nothing more than God's breeding stock and used the N-word to describe black people and said some unsavory stuff about homosexuals. I got in his face and smack it a few times till he realized he got owned. I watched him crawl away like the worm he was.
 
2022-10-21 12:19:14 PM  
It's almost like we maybe should have done what needed to be done to snuff the pandemic out within a few months instead of dragging this shiat out for nearly three years now because this world is full of stupid selfish assholes.
 
2022-10-21 12:19:36 PM  

baronbloodbath: It's a problem exacerbated by the need for high quality internet for today's educational purposes. Streaming lectures that require real-time attendance need robust and consistent upload and download. People in rural areas don't get that, because it's much cheaper for the ISPs to build and maintain 3 miles of line to serve 4,000 people than it is for 30 miles of line to serve 400 people. Thus, kids in rural areas are left behind while their suburban and urban peers flourish.


That was true for us until starlink.  We now have relatively good internet, despite our rural location.  Went from ADSL at the limits of connectivity to about 80mbps all the time.  Still not gigabit fiber by any stretch, but way, way better.
 
2022-10-21 12:20:12 PM  

kdawg7736: Kids need the interaction of school. We need to help them develop social skills.


No that's not the problem. Online education programs require the kids to be self motivated to succeed. The teacher can't keep them on task or force them to do work. So for certain kids who want to succeed and do the work, but the social aspects aren't positive for them it's better then going to a normal school.
 
2022-10-21 12:20:50 PM  
Sure some kids fell behind, but they can still catch back up, because they aren't dead.

The teachers can help kids catch up, because they didn't die from Covid sweeping through schools.

Their parents and guardians can quit biatching and help the kids catch up, because they didn't die when their kid brought Covid home.

Pull on your bootstraps you farking whiny snowflake assholes.
 
2022-10-21 12:22:25 PM  

Russ1642: baronbloodbath: It's a problem exacerbated by the need for high quality internet for today's educational purposes. Streaming lectures that require real-time attendance need robust and consistent upload and download. People in rural areas don't get that, because it's much cheaper for the ISPs to build and maintain 3 miles of line to serve 4,000 people than it is for 30 miles of line to serve 400 people. Thus, kids in rural areas are left behind while their suburban and urban peers flourish.

That house in the sticks isn't the bargain people think it is. They have to drive longer for everything, pretty much all utilities are worse, and some services just aren't available at all.


Yeah, but I have 12 acres, a shooting range, and raise all my own protein.  I telework most days, and the extra utility costs are saved by my greatly reduced property taxes.  Both can work, and folks should live where they want.  I hate people, so I live in the woods.
 
2022-10-21 12:24:05 PM  

stray_capts: TWX: It's almost like until a basic set of skills is achieved, people need to more directly interact with their teachers to learn.

I get the feeling that 'online school' in many cases the refuge for parents that believe the lies about public school but aren't willing to put forth the effort to personally homeschool their children either.  Therefore in many cases the kids get as much out of it as was committed to it.

For our kiddos, it's the opposite.  My wife is a certified teacher.  All of our kiddos are in online school through the state.  The school provides the curriculum, materials, and lots of support.  They do grading, testing, lesson planning, etc.  My wife does a great deal of the hands on stuff until the kiddos get to advanced math/chemistry/or physics.  Then it's my turn to do the in person stuff.  Not a bad solution for us, but most homes probably don't come equipped with an unemployed homemaker who is also fully certified to teach with decades of experience in the classroom.  Also, because our school is very rural, my kiddos get the benefit of much greater opportunities at the statewide school, and none of the hazing (two of my girls are LGBTQ, well not all at once, but you get the idea).


Then move out of the sticks and into the city. The rural life is horrible and its clearly keeping your LGBT kids from their own community where they can meet others like them.
 
2022-10-21 12:24:54 PM  
Is online school failing students or has regular school failed them and online school is simply highlighting the issue?
 
2022-10-21 12:26:29 PM  

stray_capts: Russ1642: baronbloodbath: It's a problem exacerbated by the need for high quality internet for today's educational purposes. Streaming lectures that require real-time attendance need robust and consistent upload and download. People in rural areas don't get that, because it's much cheaper for the ISPs to build and maintain 3 miles of line to serve 4,000 people than it is for 30 miles of line to serve 400 people. Thus, kids in rural areas are left behind while their suburban and urban peers flourish.

That house in the sticks isn't the bargain people think it is. They have to drive longer for everything, pretty much all utilities are worse, and some services just aren't available at all.

Yeah, but I have 12 acres, a shooting range, and raise all my own protein.  I telework most days, and the extra utility costs are saved by my greatly reduced property taxes.  Both can work, and folks should live where they want.  I hate people, so I live in the woods.


Are you a serial killer or something?
 
2022-10-21 12:26:52 PM  

baronbloodbath: It's a problem exacerbated by the need for high quality internet for today's educational purposes. Streaming lectures that require real-time attendance need robust and consistent upload and download. People in rural areas don't get that, because it's much cheaper for the ISPs to build and maintain 3 miles of line to serve 4,000 people than it is for 30 miles of line to serve 400 people. Thus, kids in rural areas are left behind while their suburban and urban peers flourish.


Hence Starlink. If it can keep people online in a war zone, being out in the sticks should be nothing.
 
2022-10-21 12:31:41 PM  

inner ted: Aetre: Every one of us who taught through that virtual learning year during the pandemic could've told you online schooling doesn't work. But, snake oil salesmen are gonna sell it anyway.

Lolno
Tho I admit the first year was a bit of a joke as the school was NOT an online school but was trying to figure it out on the run

Last year the teacher wasn't great, but that's no different than in person class
This year the teachers are great and my kids are doing great - the oldest has become very self sufficient and knows that he is free to do as he likes once his class work is done
Getting the social aspect has been a challenge but that's what play dates are for

We also go ride bikes and hike during "normal" school hours , and my kids are pretty accustomed to sleeping in - When my kid talks to other kids and describes the above, well I've never heard eleven year olds say "o my god" so seriously before

Also- none of us have been sick in almost three years
Oh ya and I don't need to buy them a bullet proof backpack for Active Shooter Drill day

But please do go on about what all they are missing


Yep, and some kids have always done fine with homeschooling, too. But the general trend? If we're moneyballing on society? ...Yeah, no. Also, good luck with the kids' immune systems after a few years of not getting sick at all. Landed my sister in the hospital a few times. Your mileage may vary.
 
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