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(Onion AV Club)   Sometimes the interwebs senses goodness, doesn't suck   (avclub.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Marvel Comics, Catholic Church, Daredevil, Superhero, love of an ever-expanding list of good women, Charlie Cox, Avengers, Stan Lee  
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1209 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 21 Oct 2022 at 9:05 AM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



31 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-10-21 9:19:13 AM  
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Hooray! We're helping!
 
2022-10-21 9:19:44 AM  
Sometimes there's worse things than death, Charlie.

/dreading what Disney is going to do to Daredevil. Will he be STIGGINIT to the "Incels" again?
 
2022-10-21 9:28:12 AM  

WhippingBoi: Sometimes there's worse things than death, Charlie.

/dreading what Disney is going to do to Daredevil. Will he be STIGGINIT to the "Incels" again?


Why? Did he hurt your feelings?
 
2022-10-21 9:49:00 AM  
The Netflix Daredevil show is my favorite superhero show ever. It's incredible. The internet (myself included) campaigned to bring THAT show back. All signs indicate that the show they're planning is going to be a new thing, and considering the track record of the Disney+ era of Marvel shows, it will probably be a limp, embarrassing failure. It seems doubtful that they're even going to bring back the rest of the (terrific) cast.

I anticipate more silly quips, more bad writing, more of the ghastly yellow suit, and boring and ugly CGI action sequences. I hope to be proven wrong
 
2022-10-21 10:09:34 AM  

kryptoknightmare: The Netflix Daredevil show is my favorite superhero show ever. It's incredible. The internet (myself included) campaigned to bring THAT show back. All signs indicate that the show they're planning is going to be a new thing, and considering the track record of the Disney+ era of Marvel shows, it will probably be a limp, embarrassing failure. It seems doubtful that they're even going to bring back the rest of the (terrific) cast.

I anticipate more silly quips, more bad writing, more of the ghastly yellow suit, and boring and ugly CGI action sequences. I hope to be proven wrong


I've been a huge DD fan since #158.

When they announced that the new series was going to be called "Born Again", my heart skipped a beat with joy. Then I realized who was going to be producing it.

I hope you're completely wrong in your predictions, but sadly, I think you nailed it.
 
2022-10-21 10:17:37 AM  
I liked the less broody version of him in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. The grimdark version from Netflix is a bit played out at this point. DC can keep wallowing in that sort of characterization.

Keep the same fight choreographer though. For the love of all that is good and entertaining in this world... Keep the Netflix fight choreographer.
 
2022-10-21 10:24:31 AM  

WhippingBoi: kryptoknightmare: The Netflix Daredevil show is my favorite superhero show ever. It's incredible. The internet (myself included) campaigned to bring THAT show back. All signs indicate that the show they're planning is going to be a new thing, and considering the track record of the Disney+ era of Marvel shows, it will probably be a limp, embarrassing failure. It seems doubtful that they're even going to bring back the rest of the (terrific) cast.

I anticipate more silly quips, more bad writing, more of the ghastly yellow suit, and boring and ugly CGI action sequences. I hope to be proven wrong

I've been a huge DD fan since #158.

When they announced that the new series was going to be called "Born Again", my heart skipped a beat with joy. Then I realized who was going to be producing it.

I hope you're completely wrong in your predictions, but sadly, I think you nailed it.


Born Again is such a clever title (considering the situation) that they couldn't pass up using it, but the Netflix show already took inspiration from so many elements of that storyline that there's essentially no more meat left on the bone.
 
2022-10-21 10:36:04 AM  

kryptoknightmare: WhippingBoi: kryptoknightmare: The Netflix Daredevil show is my favorite superhero show ever. It's incredible. The internet (myself included) campaigned to bring THAT show back. All signs indicate that the show they're planning is going to be a new thing, and considering the track record of the Disney+ era of Marvel shows, it will probably be a limp, embarrassing failure. It seems doubtful that they're even going to bring back the rest of the (terrific) cast.

I anticipate more silly quips, more bad writing, more of the ghastly yellow suit, and boring and ugly CGI action sequences. I hope to be proven wrong

I've been a huge DD fan since #158.

When they announced that the new series was going to be called "Born Again", my heart skipped a beat with joy. Then I realized who was going to be producing it.

I hope you're completely wrong in your predictions, but sadly, I think you nailed it.

Born Again is such a clever title (considering the situation) that they couldn't pass up using it, but the Netflix show already took inspiration from so many elements of that storyline that there's essentially no more meat left on the bone.


Yes, and there's no way Disney would do a truthful adaptation of the storyline (not that I would blame them-seeing Karen Page as a drug-addicted porn star is probably not really a "Disney" thing.

I just hope they paid attention to the Netflix series, and don't try to "do their own thing". (Obviously, I'm an optimistic, naïve idiot).
 
2022-10-21 10:41:32 AM  
All I can say is there better still be long-shot hallway fights.  In She-Hulk, all he did was kick people in the chest.
 
2022-10-21 12:09:35 PM  

WhippingBoi: Sometimes there's worse things than death, Charlie.

/dreading what Disney is going to do to Daredevil. Will he be STIGGINIT to the "Incels" again?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-10-21 12:10:18 PM  
Now, where's Jessica Jones!!
 
2022-10-21 12:11:48 PM  

kryptoknightmare: The Netflix Daredevil show is my favorite superhero show ever. It's incredible. The internet (myself included) campaigned to bring THAT show back. All signs indicate that the show they're planning is going to be a new thing, and considering the track record of the Disney+ era of Marvel shows, it will probably be a limp, embarrassing failure. It seems doubtful that they're even going to bring back the rest of the (terrific) cast.

I anticipate more silly quips, more bad writing, more of the ghastly yellow suit, and boring and ugly CGI action sequences. I hope to be proven wrong


Well the important thing is that you're going to watch something you know you won't like for....reasons. Then maybe you'll sit in a chair and hit your dick with a hammer as a follow-up
 
2022-10-21 2:13:00 PM  

clkeagle: I liked the less broody version of him in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. The grimdark version from Netflix is a bit played out at this point. DC can keep wallowing in that sort of characterization.

Keep the same fight choreographer though. For the love of all that is good and entertaining in this world... Keep the Netflix fight choreographer.


If you don't like daredevil just say so. Don't justify why you don't like the character.
 
2022-10-21 2:16:41 PM  

TDWCom29: kryptoknightmare: The Netflix Daredevil show is my favorite superhero show ever. It's incredible. The internet (myself included) campaigned to bring THAT show back. All signs indicate that the show they're planning is going to be a new thing, and considering the track record of the Disney+ era of Marvel shows, it will probably be a limp, embarrassing failure. It seems doubtful that they're even going to bring back the rest of the (terrific) cast.

I anticipate more silly quips, more bad writing, more of the ghastly yellow suit, and boring and ugly CGI action sequences. I hope to be proven wrong

Well the important thing is that you're going to watch something you know you won't like for....reasons. Then maybe you'll sit in a chair and hit your dick with a hammer as a follow-up


There's not much reason to stay subscribed.  Do a free month every six months and you can catch up to anything.

Unless you're the weirdo who's really in to the Turner and Hooch and Mighty Ducks series.
 
2022-10-21 2:59:20 PM  

kryptoknightmare: and considering the track record of the Disney+ era of Marvel shows, it will probably be a limp, embarrassing failure.


That's an interesting way to say "popular to middling". I guess all these Marvel threads is just Drew taking Mickey Mouse money and 50 bots every week for the last 3 years.
 
2022-10-21 4:30:17 PM  
Biggest question for the new DD series is if they show a speeding vehicle convoy or a hallway fight first. I will be watching regardless.

Maybe a fight in the hallway of a speeding mobile home being hauled as part of a convoy?
 
2022-10-21 6:00:13 PM  
Netflix Daredevil is the best Marvel show and it's not even close.
 
2022-10-21 9:11:00 PM  

Night Train to Wakanda: clkeagle: I liked the less broody version of him in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. The grimdark version from Netflix is a bit played out at this point. DC can keep wallowing in that sort of characterization.

Keep the same fight choreographer though. For the love of all that is good and entertaining in this world... Keep the Netflix fight choreographer.

If you don't like daredevil just say so. Don't justify why you don't like the character.


I just said that I liked the version in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. Was that somehow unclear?
 
2022-10-21 9:15:32 PM  

clkeagle: Night Train to Wakanda: clkeagle: I liked the less broody version of him in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. The grimdark version from Netflix is a bit played out at this point. DC can keep wallowing in that sort of characterization.

Keep the same fight choreographer though. For the love of all that is good and entertaining in this world... Keep the Netflix fight choreographer.

If you don't like daredevil just say so. Don't justify why you don't like the character.

I just said that I liked the version in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. Was that somehow unclear?


So you don't like Daredevil. But you repeat yourself.
 
2022-10-21 9:19:03 PM  

WhippingBoi: clkeagle: Night Train to Wakanda: clkeagle: I liked the less broody version of him in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. The grimdark version from Netflix is a bit played out at this point. DC can keep wallowing in that sort of characterization.

Keep the same fight choreographer though. For the love of all that is good and entertaining in this world... Keep the Netflix fight choreographer.

If you don't like daredevil just say so. Don't justify why you don't like the character.

I just said that I liked the version in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. Was that somehow unclear?

So you don't like Daredevil. But you repeat yourself.


Am I missing something here? Was the character in Spider-Man and She-Hulk supposed to be someone else?
 
2022-10-21 9:27:17 PM  

clkeagle: WhippingBoi: clkeagle: Night Train to Wakanda: clkeagle: I liked the less broody version of him in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. The grimdark version from Netflix is a bit played out at this point. DC can keep wallowing in that sort of characterization.

Keep the same fight choreographer though. For the love of all that is good and entertaining in this world... Keep the Netflix fight choreographer.

If you don't like daredevil just say so. Don't justify why you don't like the character.

I just said that I liked the version in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. Was that somehow unclear?

So you don't like Daredevil. But you repeat yourself.

Am I missing something here? Was the character in Spider-Man and She-Hulk supposed to be someone else?


Daredevil wasn't in Spider-Man. Matt Murdoch was. And his character was completely in line with Matt Murdoch.

And I must confess I haven't seen a single episode of She-Hulk, but I have read descriptions of the "Daredevil" character. And based on this, yes, the "She-Hulk" Daredevil was indeed supposed to be someone else: a pale shadow of a great character, "re-imagined" through the eyes of some useless chud completely indifferent to that character.
 
2022-10-21 9:34:24 PM  

WhippingBoi: clkeagle: WhippingBoi: clkeagle: Night Train to Wakanda: clkeagle: I liked the less broody version of him in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. The grimdark version from Netflix is a bit played out at this point. DC can keep wallowing in that sort of characterization.

Keep the same fight choreographer though. For the love of all that is good and entertaining in this world... Keep the Netflix fight choreographer.

If you don't like daredevil just say so. Don't justify why you don't like the character.

I just said that I liked the version in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. Was that somehow unclear?

So you don't like Daredevil. But you repeat yourself.

Am I missing something here? Was the character in Spider-Man and She-Hulk supposed to be someone else?

Daredevil wasn't in Spider-Man. Matt Murdoch was. And his character was completely in line with Matt Murdoch.

And I must confess I haven't seen a single episode of She-Hulk, but I have read descriptions of the "Daredevil" character. And based on this, yes, the "She-Hulk" Daredevil was indeed supposed to be someone else: a pale shadow of a great character, "re-imagined" through the eyes of some useless chud completely indifferent to that character.


Okay, so you're biatching about something you haven't even watched. Plus, it's their movie and TV universe. Don't they get to decide who their character is? Or is it a "pale shadow" without Petrie and Goddard dictating the storylines? I mean were pretty good--Netflix Daredevil did remind me a lot of their work on Buffy and Angel.

Oh, is this some kind of weird gatekeeping thing connected to the source comics? If so, specifically which of the twenty-plus writers in Daredevil's history (not even counting the crossover or alt-universe writers) made the "great  character?" The one you haven't even watched is a "pale shadow" of?
 
2022-10-21 9:52:07 PM  

clkeagle: WhippingBoi: clkeagle: WhippingBoi: clkeagle: Night Train to Wakanda: clkeagle: I liked the less broody version of him in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. The grimdark version from Netflix is a bit played out at this point. DC can keep wallowing in that sort of characterization.

Keep the same fight choreographer though. For the love of all that is good and entertaining in this world... Keep the Netflix fight choreographer.

If you don't like daredevil just say so. Don't justify why you don't like the character.

I just said that I liked the version in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. Was that somehow unclear?

So you don't like Daredevil. But you repeat yourself.

Am I missing something here? Was the character in Spider-Man and She-Hulk supposed to be someone else?

Daredevil wasn't in Spider-Man. Matt Murdoch was. And his character was completely in line with Matt Murdoch.

And I must confess I haven't seen a single episode of She-Hulk, but I have read descriptions of the "Daredevil" character. And based on this, yes, the "She-Hulk" Daredevil was indeed supposed to be someone else: a pale shadow of a great character, "re-imagined" through the eyes of some useless chud completely indifferent to that character.

Okay, so you're biatching about something you haven't even watched. Plus, it's their movie and TV universe. Don't they get to decide who their character is? Or is it a "pale shadow" without Petrie and Goddard dictating the storylines? I mean were pretty good--Netflix Daredevil did remind me a lot of their work on Buffy and Angel.

Oh, is this some kind of weird gatekeeping thing connected to the source comics? If so, specifically which of the twenty-plus writers in Daredevil's history (not even counting the crossover or alt-universe writers) made the "great  character?" The one you haven't even watched is a "pale shadow" of?

Don't they get to decide who their character is?


Yes, they unfortunately do. Doesn't mean that it won't be crap, much like almost everything they've done post "Endgame"

Or is it a "pale shadow" without Petrie and Goddard dictating the storylines?

Impossible to say at this point. But from what I've read, all signs point to "yes" (and believe me, I'll gladly eat my words if I'm incorrect).

If so, specifically which of the twenty-plus writers in Daredevil's history (not even counting the crossover or alt-universe writers) made the "great  character?"

Frank Miller.
 
2022-10-21 10:19:12 PM  

WhippingBoi: Frank Miller.


So one writer--specifically the one known as the king of grimdark--is the stick by which you measure all other writers' characterizations?

Let every version exist on its own.

Comic readers account for maybe 1% of the film and TV viewing audience. Marvel Studios' job is to present the comic-book traits and essence of a character in a way that appeals to a much broader audience. All TV and movie characters can be good or bad regardless of how closely they match their source material. Take the Clooney Batman or the Andrew Garfield Spider-Man movies. Both starred perfectly capable actors. That wasn't the problem. Nobody writing or directing that their films "hated" the characters (regardless of what some gatekeepers on the internet seem to believe). They were genuinely trying to create what they thought would be good adaptations. But their versions of their characters just... weren't good. It wasn't that Maguire or Holland or Keaton or Bale were that much closer to the "source material." They were just better screen adaptations of the same comic character.

And overall, Disney Plus is trending better with every show. Loki was awful minus a few good performances from the cast, Falcon and Winter Soldier was middling but had some strong moments, Hawkeye was just plain excellent, Moon Knight was pretty cool, and She-Hulk was damn fun.

On the other hand, the Netflix shows were far from perfect. I'll take ten more seasons of She-Hulk or Hawkeye before I'd consider watching another episode of a Netflix Iron Fist series, or watch someone try to make an entire season of Jessica Jones without an actual farking villain. So personally, I don't mind Disney pulling the MCU version of Daredevil in an ever-so-slightly more upbeat direction than Netflix portrayed him.

And even if the tonal shift makes it feel like a different character? I say who cares--as long as it's an interesting character and Charlie Cox brings something to the performance. Hell, JK Simmons has now played two VERY different versions of J. Jonah Jameson and that has worked pretty well.
 
2022-10-21 10:30:24 PM  

WhippingBoi: If so, specifically which of the twenty-plus writers in Daredevil's history (not even counting the crossover or alt-universe writers) made the "great character?"

Frank Miller.


Hahahaha

Quel surprise, you're a Frank Miller fanboi. Too bad Daredevil doesn't have guns and shiat I guess?
 
2022-10-21 10:36:49 PM  

clkeagle: So one writer--specifically the one known as the king of grimdark--is the stick by which you measure all other writers' characterizations?


Without Frank Miller, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because his turn on Daredevil literally saved the character from oblivion. In addition, the Netflix Daredevil series was essentially based on his characterization of Daredevil, and it's generally regarded as one of the greatest comic book adaptions, ever. FFS, he created Elektra and Stick, two of the most iconic characters in Daredevil. He also had immense influence on the popularity of The Punisher and Black Widow. To write him of as "the king of grimdark" is entirely disrespectful. Most of "the other writers" wouldn't exist without him.

And overall, Disney Plus is trending better with every show.
Shiat X 2 is still shiat.

Loki was awful minus a few good performances from the cast
Agreed

Falcon and Winter Soldier was middling but had some strong moments
Agreed

Hawkeye was just plain excellent
Completely agree

Moon Knight was pretty cool
Completely disagree. Moon Knight was a disgusting abomination that completely disrespected the core characterization of Moon Knight (as developed by Moench/Sienkiewicz).

She-Hulk was damn fun.
No comment as I haven't seen it. From what I've heard, it sounds horrible, but I'm (clearly) not the target audience.

Marvel Studios' job is to present the comic-book traits and essence of a character in a way that appeals to a much broader audience

Yes, I understand this. You'll never go broke appealing to the lowest common denominator. The ironic thing is, they were much more popular (and lucrative) when they appealed to the 1% of the comic readers. It doesn't mean I have to like it, however, or that I'm an "incel" because I'm critical of it.
 
2022-10-21 10:59:49 PM  

WhippingBoi: Moon Knight was pretty cool
Completely disagree. Moon Knight was a disgusting abomination that completely disrespected the core characterization of Moon Knight (as developed by Moench/Sienkiewicz).


I wouldn't know. I've never turned a single page of a Moon Knight comic. The only reason I knew he existed was from the 1991 Marvel trading cards. Having nothing to compare it to, I really enjoyed it.

WhippingBoi: Yes, I understand this. You'll never go broke appealing to the lowest common denominator. The ironic thing is, they were much more popular (and lucrative) when they appealed to the 1% of the comic readers. It doesn't mean I have to like it, however, or that I'm an "incel" because I'm critical of it.


I never called you an incel. I'm just encouraging you to like or dislike things based on nothing but their own merits. You'll experience an awful lot of disappointment if you automatically dislike an adaptation because it wasn't a 99.999% faithful adaptation of whatever specific writer's run of whatever specific comic appealed to you. Because let's be honest... that will never happen. I could spend hours pointing out the differences between the Netflix and the Miller versions of Daredevil, but it's not needed because it's not supposed to be a 100% faithful adaptation. Comics are comics. Screen is screen. No comic will adapt at the level of faithfulness a subset of fans seem to demand.

Even DC's animated films like Under The Red Hood end up straying from their source material--and some of them are as direct an adaptation as you'll ever find.
 
2022-10-21 11:42:16 PM  

clkeagle: WhippingBoi: Moon Knight was pretty cool
Completely disagree. Moon Knight was a disgusting abomination that completely disrespected the core characterization of Moon Knight (as developed by Moench/Sienkiewicz).

I wouldn't know. I've never turned a single page of a Moon Knight comic. The only reason I knew he existed was from the 1991 Marvel trading cards. Having nothing to compare it to, I really enjoyed it.

WhippingBoi: Yes, I understand this. You'll never go broke appealing to the lowest common denominator. The ironic thing is, they were much more popular (and lucrative) when they appealed to the 1% of the comic readers. It doesn't mean I have to like it, however, or that I'm an "incel" because I'm critical of it.

I never called you an incel. I'm just encouraging you to like or dislike things based on nothing but their own merits. You'll experience an awful lot of disappointment if you automatically dislike an adaptation because it wasn't a 99.999% faithful adaptation of whatever specific writer's run of whatever specific comic appealed to you. Because let's be honest... that will never happen. I could spend hours pointing out the differences between the Netflix and the Miller versions of Daredevil, but it's not needed because it's not supposed to be a 100% faithful adaptation. Comics are comics. Screen is screen. No comic will adapt at the level of faithfulness a subset of fans seem to demand.

Even DC's animated films like Under The Red Hood end up straying from their source material--and some of them are as direct an adaptation as you'll ever find.


Fair enough. Your viewpoint makes sense. I suppose I should be grateful that the Netflix Daredevil series even existed.

What I'm struggling with is what I mentioned before: while the previous MCU movies were not entirely faithful to the comic book adaptations, they were "close enough". And EVERYONE seemed to love them (from die-hard fans to casual viewers). The difference between then and now is that "then" the movies seem to have been made by people who respected the source material, even if they didn't follow it to the letter. Now it seems the reigns have been handed to people who want to "tell their own stories", and are using the work of people far more competent than them to do so. The respect for the past is gone; replaced by childish narcissism.
 
2022-10-22 7:44:13 AM  

Xander_CDN: All I can say is there better still be long-shot hallway fights.  In She-Hulk, all he did was kick people in the chest.


I loved what they did with him in She Hulk. He started down the hallway, taking people out and then we were reminded that it's her show and also that she's a Hulk. It was perfect.

But to your point, that nod means they clearly understand how awesome it was on Netflix. So I'm optimistic.
 
2022-10-22 7:47:22 AM  

WhippingBoi: clkeagle: WhippingBoi: clkeagle: WhippingBoi: clkeagle: Night Train to Wakanda: clkeagle: I liked the less broody version of him in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. The grimdark version from Netflix is a bit played out at this point. DC can keep wallowing in that sort of characterization.

Keep the same fight choreographer though. For the love of all that is good and entertaining in this world... Keep the Netflix fight choreographer.

If you don't like daredevil just say so. Don't justify why you don't like the character.

I just said that I liked the version in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. Was that somehow unclear?

So you don't like Daredevil. But you repeat yourself.

Am I missing something here? Was the character in Spider-Man and She-Hulk supposed to be someone else?

Daredevil wasn't in Spider-Man. Matt Murdoch was. And his character was completely in line with Matt Murdoch.

And I must confess I haven't seen a single episode of She-Hulk, but I have read descriptions of the "Daredevil" character. And based on this, yes, the "She-Hulk" Daredevil was indeed supposed to be someone else: a pale shadow of a great character, "re-imagined" through the eyes of some useless chud completely indifferent to that character.

Okay, so you're biatching about something you haven't even watched. Plus, it's their movie and TV universe. Don't they get to decide who their character is? Or is it a "pale shadow" without Petrie and Goddard dictating the storylines? I mean were pretty good--Netflix Daredevil did remind me a lot of their work on Buffy and Angel.

Oh, is this some kind of weird gatekeeping thing connected to the source comics? If so, specifically which of the twenty-plus writers in Daredevil's history (not even counting the crossover or alt-universe writers) made the "great  character?" The one you haven't even watched is a "pale shadow" of?

Don't they get to decide who their character is?

Yes, they unfortunately do. Doesn't mean that it won't be crap, much like almost everything they've done post "Endgame"

Or is it a "pale shadow" without Petrie and Goddard dictating the storylines?

Impossible to say at this point. But from what I've read, all signs point to "yes" (and believe me, I'll gladly eat my words if I'm incorrect).

If so, specifically which of the twenty-plus writers in Daredevil's history (not even counting the crossover or alt-universe writers) made the "great  character?"

Frank Miller.


Is he the one who made Murdoch a whiny douchebag?
 
2022-10-22 7:25:19 PM  

LL316: WhippingBoi: clkeagle: WhippingBoi: clkeagle: WhippingBoi: clkeagle: Night Train to Wakanda: clkeagle: I liked the less broody version of him in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. The grimdark version from Netflix is a bit played out at this point. DC can keep wallowing in that sort of characterization.

Keep the same fight choreographer though. For the love of all that is good and entertaining in this world... Keep the Netflix fight choreographer.

If you don't like daredevil just say so. Don't justify why you don't like the character.

I just said that I liked the version in Spider-Man and She-Hulk. Was that somehow unclear?

So you don't like Daredevil. But you repeat yourself.

Am I missing something here? Was the character in Spider-Man and She-Hulk supposed to be someone else?

Daredevil wasn't in Spider-Man. Matt Murdoch was. And his character was completely in line with Matt Murdoch.

And I must confess I haven't seen a single episode of She-Hulk, but I have read descriptions of the "Daredevil" character. And based on this, yes, the "She-Hulk" Daredevil was indeed supposed to be someone else: a pale shadow of a great character, "re-imagined" through the eyes of some useless chud completely indifferent to that character.

Okay, so you're biatching about something you haven't even watched. Plus, it's their movie and TV universe. Don't they get to decide who their character is? Or is it a "pale shadow" without Petrie and Goddard dictating the storylines? I mean were pretty good--Netflix Daredevil did remind me a lot of their work on Buffy and Angel.

Oh, is this some kind of weird gatekeeping thing connected to the source comics? If so, specifically which of the twenty-plus writers in Daredevil's history (not even counting the crossover or alt-universe writers) made the "great  character?" The one you haven't even watched is a "pale shadow" of?

Don't they get to decide who their character is?

Yes, they unfortunately do. Doesn't mean that it won't be crap, much like almost everything they've done post "Endgame"

Or is it a "pale shadow" without Petrie and Goddard dictating the storylines?

Impossible to say at this point. But from what I've read, all signs point to "yes" (and believe me, I'll gladly eat my words if I'm incorrect).

If so, specifically which of the twenty-plus writers in Daredevil's history (not even counting the crossover or alt-universe writers) made the "great  character?"

Frank Miller.

Is he the one who made Murdoch a whiny douchebag?


Beginning to make sense why some would identify with that version.
 
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