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(Politico)   And now a special legislative session to address insurance crisis any way they can other than not building in flood zones or facing up to the liability involved in living in the path of hurricanes   (politico.com) divider line
64
    More: Florida, Insurance, Tax, special session, Gov. Ron DeSantis, property insurance industry, property tax rebates, Former Gov. Charlie Crist, Home insurance  
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1550 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Oct 2022 at 1:17 AM (21 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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wademh
2022-10-20 5:39:10 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


It's like this. We have to keep raising rates because when disasters occur, policy-holders sue us to actually pay up. If you could stop them from doing that, we could lower premiums and make a profit. Simple.
 
fragMasterFlash [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-10-20 5:44:18 PM  
The days of owning a single-family dwelling in Florida are rapidly coming to an end for all but the too-rich-to-fail folks, IMHO.

/good thing those Florida condos are so damn sturdy, right?
 
TheHighlandHowler [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-10-20 5:57:38 PM  
NYT podcast had an episode about this yesterday.  Apparently, insurers in FL take out huge umbrella policies with global carriers.  Those carriers are pulling out.
 
wademh
2022-10-20 6:12:26 PM  

TheHighlandHowler: NYT podcast had an episode about this yesterday.  Apparently, insurers in FL take out huge umbrella policies with global carriers.  Those carriers are pulling out.


It's a pretty simple thing. The number and cost of claims in Florida is huge. This gets reflected in premiums. It gets more complex as some markets end up subsidizing others but then that gets corrected and the correction creates serious sticker-shock.
 
ralanprod [TotalFark]
2022-10-20 9:14:44 PM  
I'll say it again - didn't have time to deal with the runaway insurance rates.

Had time to pick a fight with Disney and force teachers to pretend gay people don't exist.

Plus what's this BS about property tax rebates for those hit by the hurricane?  Who the hell is paying for that? Those taxes go to the county not the state.

I know, I know - it's only socialism when Democrats hand out free money.
 
EvilEgg [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-10-20 9:18:30 PM  
Hard to insure a house that needs to be rebuilt every two years.
 
Demetrius [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-10-20 9:22:44 PM  
So soshulisum?
 
brap [TotalFark]
2022-10-20 9:48:44 PM  
images.squarespace-cdn.comView Full Size
 
MurphyMurphy
2022-10-21 1:20:39 AM  
There is something ominous about the term, 'insurer of last resort'
Like a dark CAT5 storm on the horizon.
 
Phil McKraken [OhFark]
2022-10-21 1:33:44 AM  
I guess this is more important than culture war bullshiat. Too bad leadership didn't know they lived in Florida.
 
Jiggatron69
2022-10-21 1:38:40 AM  

EvilEgg: Hard to insure a house that needs to be rebuilt every two years.


Easy clap, just live in the rubble
 
nytmare
2022-10-21 1:43:32 AM  
As a coastal home owner who enjoys a splendid view of the sea and quick access to boating and beaches, I think my insurance costs should be subsidized by those who can't afford to live along the coast.
 
untoldforce
2022-10-21 1:45:01 AM  
DeSantis can't DeRail those presidential ambitions.
 
Commander Lysdexic
2022-10-21 1:47:27 AM  
TLDR- everyone else in Florida is going to pay to rebuild the houses that get destroyed because the owners reliably vote R?
 
mistahtom
2022-10-21 1:52:41 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
jook
2022-10-21 1:54:04 AM  
I have a funny feeling that when a large earthquake hits California, and causes levels of damage never before seen in the U.S., that folks on the Gulf Coast will be screaming about their insurance rates skyrocketing and federal funding being used because "they built there knowing there'd be earthquakes!", without the slightest hint of self-awareness.
 
wax_on [BareFark]
2022-10-21 1:57:46 AM  

jook: I have a funny feeling that when a large earthquake hits California, and causes levels of damage never before seen in the U.S., that folks on the Gulf Coast will be screaming about their insurance rates skyrocketing and federal funding being used because "they built there knowing there'd be earthquakes!", without the slightest hint of self-awareness.


As a resident of San Francisco I came here to say this exact thing. Oh noes the commie Californians!
 
Botkin of the Yard
2022-10-21 2:00:53 AM  
None of this really seems sustainable.  The national average for a home owner's policy is about $1500.  In Florida it's over $4000 and that's before you add the required flood insurance.  Insurance companies can turn to their reinsurance when catastrophes happen but they can't handle these repeated, and ever more costly, events.  The smaller insurers are going bankrupt at a pretty alarming rate.

Once insurance companies say that's it, we're going to stick to offering policies on homes that aren't 20 yards from the Gulf, we'll be better off.  Let the mangroves come back and leave most of it to the critters.  It'll be good for the planet and we won't have to pretend it's okay to keep building homes there.

Not that I expect any of that to happen.  It would make too much sense.
 
Airius
2022-10-21 2:05:58 AM  
The problem is people build wood homes. If you have hurricanes loke that you build ugly ass poured concrete pillboxes with removable windows and you movr your shiat upstairs during the storn then wash iat out after the storm is over.
 
Botkin of the Yard
2022-10-21 2:16:21 AM  
Airius  If you have hurricanes loke that you build ugly ass poured concrete pillboxes with removable windows and you movr your shiat upstairs during the storn then wash iat out after the storm is over.

I understand what you mean about better construction but the problem is that, even if you have a second floor, you're still looking at a lot of damage and an expensive claim.  It's not just the houses either.  All those one story businesses get flooded out.  Every car you saw floating around during that storm is a total loss because that's salt water.  It's just one big expensive mess and it happens more frequently now.
 
vincentfox
2022-10-21 2:16:34 AM  
Mandate coastal residents to be fully insured, with penalties if dropped.   Pay the real cost of living by the ocean or GTFO.
 
dericwater
2022-10-21 2:19:47 AM  

wax_on: jook: I have a funny feeling that when a large earthquake hits California, and causes levels of damage never before seen in the U.S., that folks on the Gulf Coast will be screaming about their insurance rates skyrocketing and federal funding being used because "they built there knowing there'd be earthquakes!", without the slightest hint of self-awareness.

As a resident of San Francisco I came here to say this exact thing. Oh noes the commie Californians!


California earthquakes don't recur annually. The last big earthquake in Northern California was in 1989, more than 30 years ago. If major earthquakes come about once every generation, insurers can deal with that.
 
dericwater
2022-10-21 2:22:16 AM  

Botkin of the Yard: Airius  If you have hurricanes loke that you build ugly ass poured concrete pillboxes with removable windows and you movr your shiat upstairs during the storn then wash iat out after the storm is over.

I understand what you mean about better construction but the problem is that, even if you have a second floor, you're still looking at a lot of damage and an expensive claim.  It's not just the houses either.  All those one story businesses get flooded out.  Every car you saw floating around during that storm is a total loss because that's salt water.  It's just one big expensive mess and it happens more frequently now.


And water damage is more than, "Ok, let's just sweep all those broken stuff out." There's going to be rot and mildew and who knows what else.
 
Botkin of the Yard
2022-10-21 2:29:43 AM  
dericwater And water damage is more than, "Ok, let's just sweep all those broken stuff out." There's going to be rot and mildew and who knows what else.

Exactly right.  Flooring, drywall, electrical and so on.  Possible structural damage.  And when it's all over your rates go up because you live within a 9 iron of the giant body of water that's going to flood your place again.
 
Dodo David [TotalFark]
2022-10-21 2:32:02 AM  
Where is Bugs Bunny with a saw when you need him?
 
rzrwiresunrise
2022-10-21 2:41:14 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
ViolentEastCoastCity
2022-10-21 3:06:58 AM  

dericwater: wax_on: jook: I have a funny feeling that when a large earthquake hits California, and causes levels of damage never before seen in the U.S., that folks on the Gulf Coast will be screaming about their insurance rates skyrocketing and federal funding being used because "they built there knowing there'd be earthquakes!", without the slightest hint of self-awareness.

As a resident of San Francisco I came here to say this exact thing. Oh noes the commie Californians!

California earthquakes don't recur annually. The last big earthquake in Northern California was in 1989, more than 30 years ago. If major earthquakes come about once every generation, insurers can deal with that.


Northridge was 1994 and 6.something IIRC.  But yes, your point is correct.

I gauge by their reaction to Sandy.
 
LordJiro [OhFark]
2022-10-21 3:10:09 AM  

fragMasterFlash: The days of owning a single-family dwelling in Florida are rapidly coming to an end for all but the too-rich-to-fail folks, IMHO.

/good thing those Florida condos are so damn sturdy, right?


FTFY.
 
LordJiro [OhFark]
2022-10-21 3:12:31 AM  
The end goal of capitalism (which Republicans are hellbent on reaching ASAP) is a return to feudalism. Everyone that wasn't born rich (ie born into 'nobility') doesn't own ANYTHING. Their existence will be based solely around what they can do for their "lords", and they should be happy if a noble gets a slap on the wrist if he decides to hunt serfs for sport..
 
red5ish [BareFark]
2022-10-21 3:32:52 AM  
All three of these Florida politicians are talking out of their a$$es. Larger, multi-state insurance companies will pull out of Florida entirely and no one can stop them.
The "Citizens Insurance" mentioned in the article is the most expensive option available to otherwise uninsurable individuals and businesses. Insurance companies that continue to write policies in Florida are forced to take on their share of the Citizens Insurance policies, so smaller insurance companies will close down as that burden becomes unsustainable.
No actuary in his right mind is going to cover Florida storm losses without charging huge premiums upfront. Even then they will structure policies to limit their liability and when the reinsurers pull out nobody will write policies. As policies expire they will not be renewed.

"Fight for a more competitive market where rates are incentivized to go down". Yeah, right Governor. And I've got some prime waterfront property in Florida I'd like to sell you.
 
olorin604
2022-10-21 3:34:04 AM  
So have they realized that legislating and governing is hard yet and picked a fight with Elmo instead?
 
dericwater
2022-10-21 3:50:18 AM  

ViolentEastCoastCity: dericwater: wax_on: jook: I have a funny feeling that when a large earthquake hits California, and causes levels of damage never before seen in the U.S., that folks on the Gulf Coast will be screaming about their insurance rates skyrocketing and federal funding being used because "they built there knowing there'd be earthquakes!", without the slightest hint of self-awareness.

As a resident of San Francisco I came here to say this exact thing. Oh noes the commie Californians!

California earthquakes don't recur annually. The last big earthquake in Northern California was in 1989, more than 30 years ago. If major earthquakes come about once every generation, insurers can deal with that.

Northridge was 1994 and 6.something IIRC.  But yes, your point is correct.

I gauge by their reaction to Sandy.


Northridge is hardly Northern California.
 
red5ish [BareFark]
2022-10-21 3:54:31 AM  

dericwater: ViolentEastCoastCity: dericwater: wax_on: jook: I have a funny feeling that when a large earthquake hits California, and causes levels of damage never before seen in the U.S., that folks on the Gulf Coast will be screaming about their insurance rates skyrocketing and federal funding being used because "they built there knowing there'd be earthquakes!", without the slightest hint of self-awareness.

As a resident of San Francisco I came here to say this exact thing. Oh noes the commie Californians!

California earthquakes don't recur annually. The last big earthquake in Northern California was in 1989, more than 30 years ago. If major earthquakes come about once every generation, insurers can deal with that.

Northridge was 1994 and 6.something IIRC.  But yes, your point is correct.

I gauge by their reaction to Sandy.

Northridge is hardly Northern California.


I believe s/he's referring to the Loma Prietta quake of 1989. The Worst World Series EVER.
 
farkinstance
2022-10-21 4:05:22 AM  
The whole state is in a flood zone
 
Northern
2022-10-21 4:50:56 AM  

wademh: [Fark user image image 604x169]

It's like this. We have to keep raising rates because when disasters occur, policy-holders sue us to actually pay up. If you could stop them from doing that, we could lower premiums and make a profit. Simple.


That's not what is happening in Florida property insurance markets.  It's the opposite, with Florida residents falsely claiming damage from minor storms so they can get roofs at the end of their designed life replaced for only the cost of their deductible.  Florida state laws prevent the insurers from denying those claims.  Something like 70% of property insurance lawsuits come from just Florida, it's insane, and the insurers and reinsurers have wisely abandoned the state that promotes fraud.  Few of the homes damaged by Ian had any insurance coverage thanks to their own state government.  On the other hand, at this point nothing within a few miles of the coast should be insured, the coast will disappear before 2030.
 
ViolentEastCoastCity
2022-10-21 4:54:27 AM  

dericwater: ViolentEastCoastCity: dericwater: wax_on: jook: I have a funny feeling that when a large earthquake hits California, and causes levels of damage never before seen in the U.S., that folks on the Gulf Coast will be screaming about their insurance rates skyrocketing and federal funding being used because "they built there knowing there'd be earthquakes!", without the slightest hint of self-awareness.

As a resident of San Francisco I came here to say this exact thing. Oh noes the commie Californians!

California earthquakes don't recur annually. The last big earthquake in Northern California was in 1989, more than 30 years ago. If major earthquakes come about once every generation, insurers can deal with that.

Northridge was 1994 and 6.something IIRC.  But yes, your point is correct.

I gauge by their reaction to Sandy.

Northridge is hardly Northern California.


No not at all, but I guess I didn't understand the point of the "northern" qualifier.
 
Northern
2022-10-21 4:56:35 AM  

Airius: The problem is people build wood homes. If you have hurricanes loke that you build ugly ass poured concrete pillboxes with removable windows and you movr your shiat upstairs during the storn then wash iat out after the storm is over.


Those are expensive.  In Florida you can't have anything on the first floor or you can't get property flood insurance.  So wealthy Floridians build three story concrete homes with an open ground floor without furniture, carpets, or anything other than footwear.
Your average DeSantis enjoyer lives in a plywood mobile home or vinyl sided plywood tract home built more than a decade ago and can't survive any flooding or hurricane.
 
dsmith42 [TotalFark]
2022-10-21 5:25:33 AM  

Airius: The problem is people build wood homes. If you have hurricanes loke that you build ugly ass poured concrete pillboxes with removable windows and you movr your shiat upstairs during the storn then wash iat out after the storm is over.


You don't have a first floor. It is a garage/storage area, but you can enclose it to make it look like a first floor.
 
Ray_Finkle
2022-10-21 5:36:09 AM  

olorin604: So have they realized that legislating and governing is hard yet and picked a fight with Elmo instead?


i.redd.itView Full Size
 
mysha
2022-10-21 5:49:56 AM  

red5ish: All three of these Florida politicians are talking out of their a$$es. Larger, multi-state insurance companies will pull out of Florida entirely and no one can stop them.
The "Citizens Insurance" mentioned in the article is the most expensive option available to otherwise uninsurable individuals and businesses. Insurance companies that continue to write policies in Florida are forced to take on their share of the Citizens Insurance policies, so smaller insurance companies will close down as that burden becomes unsustainable.
No actuary in his right mind is going to cover Florida storm losses without charging huge premiums upfront. Even then they will structure policies to limit their liability and when the reinsurers pull out nobody will write policies. As policies expire they will not be renewed.

"Fight for a more competitive market where rates are incentivized to go down". Yeah, right Governor. And I've got some prime waterfront property in Florida I'd like to sell you.


Don't listen to red5ish, Governor DeSantis! Just wait for the next hurricane, and the prime waterfront property will come to you!
 
Myria
2022-10-21 6:02:04 AM  
A major difference between California earthquakes and Florida hurricanes is that Californian construction is designed to withstand earthquakes.  The average Florida building will take major damage from a hurricane's storm surge.

It's not 1906 anymore.  1989 and 1994 had bad earthquakes, but San Francisco and Los Angeles respectively survived.  A lot of people died in the Northridge apartment building, but the wider area survived.

Note that California is one big strike-slip fault.  That type of fault almost never produces the 9.0 quakes that trigger tsunamis.  Instead, we get frequent little quakes and the occasional 6.0-7.0.

Insurance can handle these cases.  It can't handle entire cities destroyed.
 
Halfabee64
2022-10-21 6:31:15 AM  
The governor also said the Legislature will provide property tax rebates to areas affected by Hurricane Ian.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
snowshovel
2022-10-21 6:41:06 AM  

Northern: wademh: [Fark user image image 604x169]

It's like this. We have to keep raising rates because when disasters occur, policy-holders sue us to actually pay up. If you could stop them from doing that, we could lower premiums and make a profit. Simple.

That's not what is happening in Florida property insurance markets.  It's the opposite, with Florida residents falsely claiming damage from minor storms so they can get roofs at the end of their designed life replaced for only the cost of their deductible.  Florida state laws prevent the insurers from denying those claims.  Something like 70% of property insurance lawsuits come from just Florida, it's insane, and the insurers and reinsurers have wisely abandoned the state that promotes fraud.  Few of the homes damaged by Ian had any insurance coverage thanks to their own state government.  On the other hand, at this point nothing within a few miles of the coast should be insured, the coast will disappear before 2030.


Remember when global warming was global freezing? If you listen to scientists about coastlines disappearing, there's a good chance that in 10 years you'll wins up having 1 mile of spectacular dunes between your house and the ocean.
 
sleze
2022-10-21 6:50:04 AM  
So I just checked my premium.  My homeowners insurance rate is $1200/year.  My house is about 2x the value of my mom's condo in FL and her insurance bill is about $3K and is likely to keep going up.  I am begging her to sell it while she still can but...old people know better...
 
DaMannimal
2022-10-21 6:52:15 AM  

wademh: [Fark user image image 604x169]

It's like this. We have to keep raising rates because when disasters occur, policy-holders sue us to actually pay up. If you could stop them from doing that, we could lower premiums and make a profit. Simple.


This is absolutely not what's happening here. The problem is it's much too easy to sue and win (or really just make it not worth it to fight it) so you have all these fly by night roofing companies that send out door knockers and insurance here is treated like maintenance fund.
 
Muta
2022-10-21 7:00:39 AM  

snowshovel: Northern: wademh: [Fark user image image 604x169]

It's like this. We have to keep raising rates because when disasters occur, policy-holders sue us to actually pay up. If you could stop them from doing that, we could lower premiums and make a profit. Simple.

That's not what is happening in Florida property insurance markets.  It's the opposite, with Florida residents falsely claiming damage from minor storms so they can get roofs at the end of their designed life replaced for only the cost of their deductible.  Florida state laws prevent the insurers from denying those claims.  Something like 70% of property insurance lawsuits come from just Florida, it's insane, and the insurers and reinsurers have wisely abandoned the state that promotes fraud.  Few of the homes damaged by Ian had any insurance coverage thanks to their own state government.  On the other hand, at this point nothing within a few miles of the coast should be insured, the coast will disappear before 2030.

Remember when global warming was global freezing? If you listen to scientists about coastlines disappearing, there's a good chance that in 10 years you'll wins up having 1 mile of spectacular dunes between your house and the ocean.


No I don't.  I recall discussion of 'nuclear winter' but that is brought on by a specific event.
 
killershark
2022-10-21 7:02:33 AM  
The state also needs to put some kind of law in place that once you're house on a barrier island is gone, it's gone. Of course, legislatures won't do that. But I can see insurance companies saying "Here's the payout for your house, but it has to be spent on a new house somewhere else. You can rebuild on a barrier island, but we won't pay out and we won't insure it." Republicans talk about the free market so let the free market do its thing.
 
asmodeus224
2022-10-21 7:03:40 AM  

Airius: The problem is people build wood homes. If you have hurricanes loke that you build ugly ass poured concrete pillboxes with removable windows and you movr your shiat upstairs during the storn then wash iat out after the storm is over.


Houses made of poured concrete are exceedingly expensive, and still need HVAC and electrical and the equipment for it. so the cost of building is 5x's the comparable cost of standard construction with only slightly less rebuild/refit costs.

have you ever been in a flood?
 
goodncold
2022-10-21 7:13:01 AM  

snowshovel: Northern: wademh: [Fark user image image 604x169]

It's like this. We have to keep raising rates because when disasters occur, policy-holders sue us to actually pay up. If you could stop them from doing that, we could lower premiums and make a profit. Simple.

That's not what is happening in Florida property insurance markets.  It's the opposite, with Florida residents falsely claiming damage from minor storms so they can get roofs at the end of their designed life replaced for only the cost of their deductible.  Florida state laws prevent the insurers from denying those claims.  Something like 70% of property insurance lawsuits come from just Florida, it's insane, and the insurers and reinsurers have wisely abandoned the state that promotes fraud.  Few of the homes damaged by Ian had any insurance coverage thanks to their own state government.  On the other hand, at this point nothing within a few miles of the coast should be insured, the coast will disappear before 2030.

Remember when global warming was global freezing? If you listen to scientists about coastlines disappearing, there's a good chance that in 10 years you'll wins up having 1 mile of spectacular dunes between your house and the ocean.


LOL, Wot?
 
Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste
2022-10-21 7:31:39 AM  
Just make homes amphibious. Problem solved.
 
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