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(NPR)   Men who spent decades inhaling asbestos wish they'd just stuck to air fresheners and those smelly markers   (npr.org) divider line
52
    More: Sad, Asbestos, tiniest bit of asbestos, chemical plant, dangers of asbestos, NIAGARA FALLS, Occupational safety and health, aging plants, major chemical companies  
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2904 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Oct 2022 at 2:47 PM (23 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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Hinged
2022-10-20 2:49:20 PM  
Terrible.

But nobody knew.
 
Pocket Ninja [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-10-20 2:52:01 PM  
The problem with the smelly markers, though, is that you end up with rainbow decorations all over the tip of your nose. So everybody knows you've been sniffing the smelly markers again, instead of working.
 
Claude Ballse
2022-10-20 2:52:04 PM  
I immediately was distracted by the first sentence of the article with bold letters in all caps.

i.ebayimg.comView Full Size
 
Bslim
2022-10-20 2:54:52 PM  
"But unlike dozens of other countries that banned the potent carcinogen outright, the United States never did.
To this day, the U.S. allows hundreds of tons of asbestos to flow in each year from Brazil, primarily for the benefit of two major chemical companies, OxyChem and Olin Corp."

God bless 'MURRRRICA!
And remember, calling out Corporate criminality makes you a SOCIALIST!!!
 
SumoJeb [OhFark]
2022-10-20 2:55:32 PM  
JFC that is a nightmare industrial plant. How did they manage to find employees? You would think most reasonable folks would not show up for a second shift.
 
bdub77
2022-10-20 2:57:51 PM  
But at OxyChem's plant in Niagara Falls, New York, where Saenz worked for nearly three decades, the reality was far different, more than a dozen former workers told ProPublica. There, they said, asbestos dust hung in the air, collected on the beams and light fixtures and built up until it was inches thick. Workers tramped in and out of it all day, often without protective suits or masks, and carried it around on their coveralls and boots.

They implored the plant's managers to address the conditions, they said, but the dangers remained until the plant closed in late 2021 for unrelated reasons.

Like no offense, but find another job. You know the risks by that point, I'm not saying don't sue the company, but CMON.
 
Bslim
2022-10-20 2:58:05 PM  

SumoJeb: JFC that is a nightmare industrial plant. How did they manage to find employees? You would think most reasonable folks would not show up for a second shift.


Have you met 'MURRCAN blue collar workers?

/Be that as it may, still may it be as it may be
 
DarkSoulNoHope
2022-10-20 2:58:54 PM  

SumoJeb: JFC that is a nightmare industrial plant. How did they manage to find employees? You would think most reasonable folks would not show up for a second shift.


Unfortunately reasonable folks need money to live, and don't weigh all the inherent risks before taking a job.
 
bdub77
2022-10-20 2:59:50 PM  
Bslim:

God bless 'MURRRRICA!
And remember, calling out Corporate criminality makes you a SOCIALIST!!!

Leaded gasoline would never have been banned in today's political climate. (And technically it's STILL not banned for several uses, including aviation fuel.)
 
Claude Ballse
2022-10-20 3:00:11 PM  

SumoJeb: JFC that is a nightmare industrial plant. How did they manage to find employees? You would think most reasonable folks would not show up for a second shift.


Some people, and cephalopods, will do anything for a free hat.

i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
Begoggle
2022-10-20 3:01:32 PM  
I remember them removing asbestos from buildings like schools in the early 80s (or maybe late 70s). It was big news everywhere.
It was definitely common knowledge by the mid 80's that asbestos=bad.
 
mrmopar5287 [TotalFark]
2022-10-20 3:03:02 PM  

Bslim: SumoJeb: JFC that is a nightmare industrial plant. How did they manage to find employees? You would think most reasonable folks would not show up for a second shift.

Have you met 'MURRCAN blue collar workers?


They brag about taking risks and doing things that shorten their lifespan or give them a terrible quality of life. "Don't be such a pussy!" and other phrases like that. They're actively anti-intellectual and belittle any science that tries to warn them of risks.

My grandfather worked 38 years on the railroad, starting with coal-fired locomotives and then through the  Dieselization era. He was perpetually breathing coal smoke and then Diesel exhaust. He made it to age 78 and died of lung cancer, but that was probably also part of smoking for 50+ years.

When he took me to the Illinois Railway Museum in Union IL, we were walking and a coal-fired locomotive passed by. The cloud of smoke from the stack drifted low and as a 10-year-old I was coughing a bit. My grandfather's response: "Don't be such a pussy! It's just some coal smoke and you cough it right back up!"
 
Rent Party
2022-10-20 3:03:41 PM  
VFW's monthly magazine is chock full of attorneys representing asbestos cases.    Mesothelioma will kill you and it won't be pretty.

/successfully boiled water without burning it
 
SumoJeb [OhFark]
2022-10-20 3:04:49 PM  

Bslim: SumoJeb: JFC that is a nightmare industrial plant. How did they manage to find employees? You would think most reasonable folks would not show up for a second shift.

Have you met 'MURRCAN blue collar workers?


I've heard a few horror stories from friends that got transferred to log mills and drilling rigs in the states during slowdowns here in BC.  Still, I'm always amazed at what people are willing to risk just to get a dollar.
 
mrmopar5287 [TotalFark]
2022-10-20 3:04:58 PM  

Begoggle: I remember them removing asbestos from buildings like schools in the early 80s (or maybe late 70s). It was big news everywhere.
It was definitely common knowledge by the mid 80's that asbestos=bad.


Same here. Projects were done to remove it from pipe insulation, which was the biggest exposure hazard. After that all the parents in the village got reports that there was still asbestos in floor tiles, but since it's encapsulated it's fine. Later, when renovations were done to the school, they did the whole "seal the building up with hazmat protection ventilation" and workers wearing full suits and respirators took out the floor tiles. It was occasionally a large project, but not terribly dangerous when done properly.
 
ajgeek [TotalFark]
2022-10-20 3:07:48 PM  
I heard this on the radio. 8 (15 according to the below link) aging plants making up 1/3 of the chlorine needed to run the country. All the newer plants moved away from asbestos (and to polymer membranes) to manufacture the chlorine from salt.

This has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with the bottom line, as usual.

It's pretty obvious that we need chlorine for a multitude of different things, so it's not going away. The only viable solution is to force modernization, eat the increased chlorine cost, and put an IRS watchdog on them to make sure they don't gouge.

/But that's soshulizm or something.
 
Calehedron
2022-10-20 3:08:13 PM  
There all kinds of nasty things in use at chemical companies. Wear the proper PPE for the job. Why isn't anyone wearing an APR or Air Supplied Respirator when working around it? Way back when no one knew how bad it was and it was used for insulation, I could see inhaling it. But any time since the early 80s it's been known to be bad so put on the gear!

/Certified in full face APR
//3M Comfortseal
///HF gas or acid is bad stuff!
 
fragMasterFlash [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-10-20 3:09:27 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
TWX
2022-10-20 3:10:18 PM  

Bslim: SumoJeb: JFC that is a nightmare industrial plant. How did they manage to find employees? You would think most reasonable folks would not show up for a second shift.

Have you met 'MURRCAN blue collar workers?


It's been my experience that while companies are happy to be negligent, workers are also happy to participate in a machismo culture where they eschew any sort of safety equipment that management will let them get away with omitting.

It would not surprise me at all if there were on-paper processes for wearing PPE when working with asbestos, and processes for reporting any buildups of the substance so that it could be remediated.  A don't-ask-don't-tell mindset developed, management wasn't about to ask of conditions or tell workers to do the right thing because that would eliminate all plausible deniability, and workers weren't willing to actually wear their PPE, call attention to problems.
 
Bslim
2022-10-20 3:11:08 PM  

SumoJeb: Bslim: SumoJeb: JFC that is a nightmare industrial plant. How did they manage to find employees? You would think most reasonable folks would not show up for a second shift.

Have you met 'MURRCAN blue collar workers?

I've heard a few horror stories from friends that got transferred to log mills and drilling rigs in the states during slowdowns here in BC.  Still, I'm always amazed at what people are willing to risk just to get a dollar.


They, literally, become their own worst enemies by sabotaging efforts to better their working conditions and actively suppress their own brethren in favor of the corporate masters.
 
ajgeek [TotalFark]
2022-10-20 3:15:06 PM  
Well crap...

I was under the impression that mineral wool was the next alternative to asbestos, but it looks like it's going on the chopping block too.

The reasoning: the stuff being sold has a binder agent in it that wasn't found in the tests.

Damnit, can we do anything that doesn't mean completely killing ourselves!? I was planning on using that stuff!
 
AstroJesus
2022-10-20 3:16:17 PM  
I'm wearing my tinfoil hat today, so I remember that the World Trade Center was filled with asbestos. In fact, mandated remediation for it was going to cost more than the towers themselves.
 
TWX
2022-10-20 3:19:29 PM  

AstroJesus: I'm wearing my tinfoil hat today, so I remember that the World Trade Center was filled with asbestos. In fact, mandated remediation for it was going to cost more than the towers themselves.


before or after accounting for inflation?

Because before, sure.  The towers were built in the late seventies, by 2001 they'd have been the better part of 30 years old and have gone through quite a period of inflation.
 
TWX
2022-10-20 3:20:31 PM  

TWX: AstroJesus: I'm wearing my tinfoil hat today, so I remember that the World Trade Center was filled with asbestos. In fact, mandated remediation for it was going to cost more than the towers themselves.

before or after accounting for inflation?

Because before, sure.  The towers were built in the late seventies, by 2001 they'd have been the better part of 30 years old and have gone through quite a period of inflation.


Also:

Fark user imageView Full Size


/is on the regular computer wallpaper rotation
//lest we forget
 
functionisalwaystaken
2022-10-20 3:24:48 PM  

AstroJesus: I'm wearing my tinfoil hat today, so I remember that the World Trade Center was filled with asbestos. In fact, mandated remediation for it was going to cost more than the towers themselves.


It was, and is, and excellent insulator and flame retardant.  You just can't move it, cut it, break it, take it out, replace it, or do pretty much anything to it once in place.  Not practical for things with a lifespan of less than 1000 years.
 
nytmare
2022-10-20 3:29:49 PM  
"Good news is, the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show a median latency of forty-four point six years, so if you're thirty or older, you're laughing. Worst case scenario, you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face."
 
Harry Freakstorm [BareFark]
2022-10-20 3:30:42 PM  
Most of my house is asbestos. When I die, I'm going to the flat rate crematorium.  Gonna roast in there for hours.

None of these houses burn.  Servicepro comes in, pulls out the carpeting, scrubs the walls and the landlord section 8 rents it again.
 
fredbox [TotalFark]
2022-10-20 3:31:10 PM  
Enjoy every sandwich.
 
Jeebus Saves
2022-10-20 3:34:50 PM  
But they went into the building to carry out other tasks without special suits or anything protecting their faces, despite company requirements. One worker said managers enforced those rules. But a dozen others interviewed by ProPublica recalled that the bosses looked the other way. Suiting up was impractical, those workers said. It took time away from the tasks that needed to get done and was uncomfortable, especially on hot days, when the temperature inside could reach 100 degrees.

Sounds like they need a Union...

The guys carried so much asbestos into the trailer where they ate lunch and took breaks that it needed to be replaced, former union leaders said.

Ok, what in the ever loving fark?  Come on, guys.  You knew the risks.  You just didn't want to wear the PPE all the time.  You were in a Union.  They would have had your back.

This whole story is a failure on so many levels.
 
Driver [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-10-20 3:39:24 PM  
Another industry that uses asbestos is manufacturing of brake pads and brake shoes. Modern brakes are allowed to use asbestos up to 1% of material. While the workers in those plants run the risk of exposure to asbestos, so do the mechanics that service brake systems.
 
Majin_Buu [OhFark]
2022-10-20 3:39:34 PM  

bdub77: Bslim:

God bless 'MURRRRICA!
And remember, calling out Corporate criminality makes you a SOCIALIST!!!

Leaded gasoline would never have been banned in today's political climate. (And technically it's STILL not banned for several uses, including aviation fuel.)


Ironically enough it's a large contributor to today's sociopolitical climate even though it was banned decades ago.
 
stuffy
2022-10-20 3:43:10 PM  
Remember teachers giving us time to smell test papers ink, before starting the test.
 
rhondajeremy
2022-10-20 3:47:07 PM  

Bslim: "But unlike dozens of other countries that banned the potent carcinogen outright, the United States never did.
To this day, the U.S. allows hundreds of tons of asbestos to flow in each year from Brazil, primarily for the benefit of two major chemical companies, OxyChem and Olin Corp."

God bless 'MURRRRICA!
And remember, calling out Corporate criminality makes you a SOCIALIST!!!


They were still mining it in Quebec until 2011. I remember it being a sore point for many people I knew for a long time.
 
SumoJeb [OhFark]
2022-10-20 3:49:50 PM  

Driver: Another industry that uses asbestos is manufacturing of brake pads and brake shoes. Modern brakes are allowed to use asbestos up to 1% of material. While the workers in those plants run the risk of exposure to asbestos, so do the mechanics that service brake systems.


interesting! I thought they were all asbestos free these days.

Do IDEAL Brake Parts contain asbestos?
No. IDEAL Brake Parts do not and have never contained any asbestos. This mineral was used for decades in brake pads because it was inexpensive and provided excellent heat resistance and long durability.
Although many commercial uses for asbestos have been banned since the late 1970s, asbestos is still present in aftermarket brake pads. When asbestos-filled brake pads begin to deteriorate, they can deposit harmful asbestos fibres into the air. Breathing in these fibres can cause them to become embedded in a person's lungs, leading to serious illnesses such as asbestosis or mesothelioma.
At IDEAL Brake Parts, we are committed to adopting a socially and environmentally responsible approach to manufacturing aftermarket brake parts. That's why we've never used asbestos as a component in our brake pads.

I'm glad I use Ideal, a Canadian company.
/only buy them because they come with a Canada flag pin in every box
 
zepillin [BareFark] [OhFark]
2022-10-20 3:50:05 PM  

Bslim: SumoJeb: JFC that is a nightmare industrial plant. How did they manage to find employees? You would think most reasonable folks would not show up for a second shift.

Have you met 'MURRCAN blue collar workers?


Naww, He's a college boy.
 
PunGent
2022-10-20 3:53:47 PM  

Hinged: Terrible.

But nobody knew.


Don't know where you're from, but here in reality, people have known the dangers of asbestos since the Roman Empire mined the stuff.

/actually respect the old president of Johns Manville
//he knew it was dangerous but went down on the plant floor right alongside his workers
///with predictable results, of course
 
asciibaron
2022-10-20 4:03:54 PM  
Jeebus Saves:

This whole story is a failure on so many levels.

it is very hard to get people to use the safety appliances when they make manly men look less manly.  for instance, high viz gear.  railroaders pushed back on wearing hi viz for decades... it took many deaths that were preventable by simply wearing hi viz gear to get people to start wearing them.  now, wearing hi viz is a rule that is strictly enforced and failure to wear is reason for termination on the spot. 

too many rules are written in blood.
 
Linux_Yes
2022-10-20 4:06:16 PM  

Hinged: Terrible.

But nobody knew.


Anything for a buck.

For stock owners anyway
 
Linux_Yes
2022-10-20 4:06:57 PM  

Bslim: "But unlike dozens of other countries that banned the potent carcinogen outright, the United States never did.
To this day, the U.S. allows hundreds of tons of asbestos to flow in each year from Brazil, primarily for the benefit of two major chemical companies, OxyChem and Olin Corp."

God bless 'MURRRRICA!
And remember, calling out Corporate criminality makes you a SOCIALIST!!!


Murca number 1!!
 
Linux_Yes
2022-10-20 4:08:52 PM  

mrmopar5287: Bslim: SumoJeb: JFC that is a nightmare industrial plant. How did they manage to find employees? You would think most reasonable folks would not show up for a second shift.

Have you met 'MURRCAN blue collar workers?

They brag about taking risks and doing things that shorten their lifespan or give them a terrible quality of life. "Don't be such a pussy!" and other phrases like that. They're actively anti-intellectual and belittle any science that tries to warn them of risks.

My grandfather worked 38 years on the railroad, starting with coal-fired locomotives and then through the  Dieselization era. He was perpetually breathing coal smoke and then Diesel exhaust. He made it to age 78 and died of lung cancer, but that was probably also part of smoking for 50+ years.

When he took me to the Illinois Railway Museum in Union IL, we were walking and a coal-fired locomotive passed by. The cloud of smoke from the stack drifted low and as a 10-year-old I was coughing a bit. My grandfather's response: "Don't be such a pussy! It's just some coal smoke and you cough it right back up!"


Yea!!!

Grandad always had the science to back him up!!
 
Linux_Yes
2022-10-20 4:11:49 PM  

Harry Freakstorm: Most of my house is asbestos. When I die, I'm going to the flat rate crematorium.  Gonna roast in there for hours.

None of these houses burn.  Servicepro comes in, pulls out the carpeting, scrubs the walls and the landlord section 8 rents it again.


Kewl

Because the owners live somewhere else.
Their brats do too
 
darinwil
2022-10-20 5:30:28 PM  
I used to do the monitoring side of abatement. We were taught that even in a perfectly sealed room asbestos fibers the size that damage you will remain airborne indefinitely just do to the brownian motion of the molecules in air.
My manager also told us to watch out for the workers who would do stupid stuff like remove the valve at the bottom of their respirator so they could smoke while working.
The last one was that although classified as hazardous material, at the time you could "lose" up to 40lbs of the stuff before you had to report it.
I'm glad my job was mostly outside of the containment reading samples from collectors I'd put on the workers. It must have really sucked for them, hot and humid since you have to keep it soaked with water and it's almost never not in something like an attic or steam tunnels.
 
darinwil
2022-10-20 5:32:18 PM  

darinwil: I used to do the monitoring side of abatement. We were taught that even in a perfectly sealed room asbestos fibers the size that damage you will remain airborne indefinitely just do to the brownian motion of the molecules in air.
My manager also told us to watch out for the workers who would do stupid stuff like remove the valve at the bottom of their respirator so they could smoke while working.
The last one was that although classified as hazardous material, at the time you could "lose" up to 40lbs of the stuff before you had to report it.
I'm glad my job was mostly outside of the containment reading samples from collectors I'd put on the workers. It must have really sucked for them, hot and humid since you have to keep it soaked with water and it's almost never not in something like an attic or steam tunnels.


Der, that should be due to not do to
 
backhand.slap.of.reason
2022-10-20 5:35:08 PM  
How long before Moms4Abestos starts throwing fits at school board meetings?
 
darinwil
2022-10-20 5:40:30 PM  

backhand.slap.of.reason: How long before Moms4Abestos starts throwing fits at school board meetings?


But how can they do the book burnings if all the books are made from asbestos!

/Director of Unicorns and Rainbows
 
thrasherrr
2022-10-20 7:45:20 PM  

SumoJeb: JFC that is a nightmare industrial plant. How did they manage to find employees? You would think most reasonable folks would not show up for a second shift.


This song nails that on the head:

The Chemical Worker's Song (Process Man)
Youtube GzcGOgxDoEk
 
mrmopar5287 [TotalFark]
2022-10-20 8:25:35 PM  

darinwil: My manager also told us to watch out for the workers who would do stupid stuff like remove the valve at the bottom of their respirator so they could smoke while working.


I've read that the correlation between smoking and asbestos exposure shoots sky high, almost like the vertical slope of a hockey stick graph. The reason is because the tar in the lungs from smoking is sticky and traps way more asbestos fibers, meaning people who smoke are almost 100% guaranteed to have complications later in life.
 
SumoJeb [OhFark]
2022-10-20 9:31:16 PM  

thrasherrr: SumoJeb: JFC that is a nightmare industrial plant. How did they manage to find employees? You would think most reasonable folks would not show up for a second shift.

This song nails that on the head:

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/GzcGOgxDoEk]


Great big sea are farking awesome. great song
 
DON.MAC [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-10-21 2:35:20 AM  
They still have problems with a town in Australia where they used to mine asbestos the town supported the blue sky mine. There are thousands of idiots that go there just because going there is banned.  The amount of asbestos still in the air around the townis very high based on very old EPA standards.
 
Jadedgrl
2022-10-21 5:40:10 AM  
My grandfather worked for decades at Ashland Oil Refinery in Tonawanda, NY as a welder. He and most of his co workers developed mesothelioma. He died in 2004 after a very short battle with it- it's an aggressive cancer and once you are diagnosed you are as good as dead. Pretty mute everyone employed there got involved in class action lawsuits and my grandmother got a pretty big settlement that allowed her to live comfortably until she passed in 2021 from COVID. Still she lived for almost two decades without her husband and was never the same after his death.
 
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