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(WDTN Dayton)   Ohio pulls ahead in its bid to become Florida of the North with a bill that allows vets to teach without a license. On the plus side, combat training might do more to let Ohio students survive school shootings than anything else Ohio has done   (wdtn.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Teacher, military veterans, Education, State lawmakers, State Senator Jerry Cirino, five-year teaching certificate, School, Ohio's bill  
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1154 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Oct 2022 at 1:05 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-10-07 1:09:38 AM  
I'm okay with this. Let's see what happens, what's the worst that could happen?
 
2022-10-07 1:11:21 AM  
This comes just months after state lawmakers passed a bill that cuts the college degree requirement for substitute teachers.

This is about the Republican goal of destroying education in America.
The first part of the goal is to keep people scientifically illiterate.
The second part of the goal, is setting up private schools which lets them 1) push propaganda 2) punish types of people they don't like 3) make the rich richer
 
2022-10-07 1:11:23 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-10-07 1:14:30 AM  
Sounds like an easy path to feeding children to predators, which means the bill will probably pass.
 
2022-10-07 1:25:55 AM  

ShutterGirl: I'm okay with this. Let's see what happens, what's the worst that could happen?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-10-07 1:29:11 AM  

mjjt: [Fark user image image 500x685]


That level of insanity should never teach anyone let alone children, self mutilation as an attention getting device is not "tough"  its psychotic
 
2022-10-07 1:30:09 AM  

watching the trump puddle dry: mjjt: [Fark user image image 500x685]

That level of insanity should never teach anyone let alone children, self mutilation as an attention getting device is not "tough"  its psychotic


And yeah I understand the plaster cast, your still teaching that self harm is appropriate
 
2022-10-07 1:30:17 AM  
Really sick of this cult of putting the military in a pedestal
 
2022-10-07 1:30:32 AM  
The Fark comments when Florida made the first move.
 
2022-10-07 1:31:13 AM  

Weatherkiss: Sounds like an easy path to feeding children to predators.


Ninety three percent of non-college educated adults are child predators.
 
2022-10-07 1:34:46 AM  
I feel sorry for the veterans.  If they already don't have mental issues, they will after a year of teaching zoomers.
 
2022-10-07 1:38:03 AM  
Oh VETERANS...not veterinarians. Either way, I think they should be properly trained and licensed
 
2022-10-07 1:41:31 AM  

Begoggle: This comes just months after state lawmakers passed a bill that cuts the college degree requirement for substitute teachers.

This is about the Republican goal of destroying education in America.
The first part of the goal is to keep people scientifically illiterate.
The second part of the goal, is setting up private schools which lets them 1) push propaganda 2) punish types of people they don't like 3) make the rich richer


Don't forget homeschooling. "If you're already ignorant and fascist. Homeschooling!"
 
2022-10-07 1:43:52 AM  
State Senator Jerry Cirino, of Kirtland, is co-sponsor of Senate Bill 361. "It deals with the shortage of teachers but it also recognizes that there are vets out there who have tremendous training and background," said Cirino.

JFC, even (and especially) the goddamned military doesn't let you touch one goddamned thing and/or discipline that you weren't specifically trained for. Being the best SIGINT analyst doesn't make you even remotely qualified to be a helicopter pilot, underwater welder or third grade reading teacher.
 
2022-10-07 1:45:57 AM  

Begoggle: This comes just months after state lawmakers passed a bill that cuts the college degree requirement for substitute teachers.

This is about the Republican goal of destroying education in America.
The first part of the goal is to keep people scientifically illiterate.
The second part of the goal, is setting up private schools which lets them 1) push propaganda 2) punish types of people they don't like 3) make the rich richer


Congratulations on repeating a bunch of lies and getting everything exactly wrong.

Teachers' unions and the educational-industrial complex have largely destroyed any semblance of progress in elementary and high school education in America, while setting the Black community back decades in most cities.
In Illinois, a Democratic stronghold, only 22% of Black students can even read at grade level.

The Democratic edumacational industrial political indoctrination machine has reached such a nadir that they are embarrassed to even talk about results or recent massive frauds in student scores in places like Baltimore.
But if you don't even know what "nadir" means, problem solved: just dumb everything down, because if the Politics are right, NOTHING else matters.

Illinois's Shocking Report Card https://www.wsj.com/articles/illinois-shocking-report-card-reading-math-grade-level-decatur-teachers-school-board-11664722519
 
2022-10-07 1:46:41 AM  
Anything to avoid paying teachers a livable wage, huh?
 
2022-10-07 1:47:00 AM  
At this rate, we're just a few years away from the the first red state agōgē.
 
2022-10-07 1:48:10 AM  

TorpedoOrca: Oh VETERANS...not veterinarians. Either way, I think they should be properly trained and licensed


Seriously. I don't know why Ohio even has unlicensed veterinarians, and they should by no means be treating injured schoolchildren, even if those children happen to be puppies.
 
2022-10-07 1:51:41 AM  

Animatronik: Teachers' unions and the educational-industrial complex


LMAO

One of the most hilarious combo of words I've read in a while
 
2022-10-07 2:00:41 AM  
When the schools get sued for KKK abuse and kidnappings, the GOP/Russian judges will toss out the witnesses testimony?
 
2022-10-07 2:03:58 AM  
I understand people want to blame Republicans for this, but Biden is the guy that took coronavirus mitigations out of the schools.  Certified teachers are fleeing for their lives.
 
2022-10-07 2:05:38 AM  

Mad-n-FL: When the schools get sued for KKK abuse and kidnappings, the GOP/Russian judges will toss out the witnesses testimony?


They'll just get the whole case sent to a special master and it'll never actually see the light of day.
 
2022-10-07 2:07:52 AM  

Troy Aikman's Giant Thumbs: At this rate, we're just a few years away from the the first red state agōgē.


Given the cognitive declines being seen in children that have contracted SARS-COV-2, I doubt they'll have a rigorous curriculum two or three years from now.  We are witnessing the intellectual collapse of a generation.
 
2022-10-07 2:09:25 AM  

BretMavrik: State Senator Jerry Cirino, of Kirtland, is co-sponsor of Senate Bill 361. "It deals with the shortage of teachers but it also recognizes that there are vets out there who have tremendous training and background," said Cirino.

JFC, even (and especially) the goddamned military doesn't let you touch one goddamned thing and/or discipline that you weren't specifically trained for. Being the best SIGINT analyst doesn't make you even remotely qualified to be a helicopter pilot, underwater welder or third grade reading teacher.


Fark user imageView Full Size

They do have teacher certification paths.
 
2022-10-07 2:11:49 AM  

backhand.slap.of.reason: I understand people want to blame Republicans for this, but Biden is the guy that took coronavirus mitigations out of the schools.  Certified teachers are fleeing for their lives.


This supposes it has anything to do with a teacher shortage. It doesn't. This is an ill-conceived way for Republicans to put imagined loyalists in classrooms.

It's also poorly premeditated and will probably blow up in their faces, so it has that going for it at least, which is good.
 
2022-10-07 2:14:10 AM  

mjjt: [Fark user image 500x685]


and the sergeant's name was Abraham Lincoln!
 
2022-10-07 2:25:56 AM  
*shrugs* K-12 education in America is already garbage.  We'd probably be better off just hiring random people off the street than most of the teachers I had growing up.  It's basically a babysitting service.

I mean, we could actually train a bunch of people to teach children how to use their farking brains, but that would require small classrooms and tracking.  The former requires a lot of money and the latter relies on people's judgement and is controversial.

Besides, this is missing the point. The wealthy put their children into private schools and the quality of public schools has been eroded for a reason.  America has an informal class system.
 
2022-10-07 2:34:17 AM  
Skip the middleman and just replace the DoE with TRADOC.
 
2022-10-07 2:44:23 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

The Army trains them.
 
2022-10-07 2:44:24 AM  

Monocultured: backhand.slap.of.reason: I understand people want to blame Republicans for this, but Biden is the guy that took coronavirus mitigations out of the schools.  Certified teachers are fleeing for their lives.

This supposes it has anything to do with a teacher shortage. It doesn't. This is an ill-conceived way for Republicans to put imagined loyalists in classrooms.

It's also poorly premeditated and will probably blow up in their faces, so it has that going for it at least, which is good.


Almost definitely. Former members of the military who are looking for a job are likely on the younger end of the age range, as they were probably enlisted. They're more likely to be relatively close to the students in terms of many social and political views.

There was a guy a few years ahead of me in high school who went into the Army. One day he just waltzes into class on a return trip, buffed up like the Incredible Hulk and wearing a t-shirt reading "ARMY". He immediately launched into a speech which basically consisted of...

"Hey guys! You all remember me. So, uhhh...whatever you do in life, don't join the military. I was recruited by Sgt. Jerkowitz (that was actually our on-campus recruiter's name) and he basically just lied to me about everything. He told me I would be getting lots of money and all kinds of incredible benefits, and I could go in as an officer even if I didn't have college yet. Well, that was all lies. He just got me to sign my name so he could make his numbers. I ended up being a regular old grunt the entire time, throwing grenades and living in a foxhole. You don't want to be in the military. Do literally anything else with your life. Okay, see ya'll around."

It was a good thing too, because that was in the late 1990s.
 
2022-10-07 2:45:25 AM  

Animatronik: Begoggle: This comes just months after state lawmakers passed a bill that cuts the college degree requirement for substitute teachers.

This is about the Republican goal of destroying education in America.
The first part of the goal is to keep people scientifically illiterate.
The second part of the goal, is setting up private schools which lets them 1) push propaganda 2) punish types of people they don't like 3) make the rich richer

Congratulations on repeating a bunch of lies and getting everything exactly wrong.

Teachers' unions and the educational-industrial complex have largely destroyed any semblance of progress in elementary and high school education in America, while setting the Black community back decades in most cities.
In Illinois, a Democratic stronghold, only 22% of Black students can even read at grade level.

The Democratic edumacational industrial political indoctrination machine has reached such a nadir that they are embarrassed to even talk about results or recent massive frauds in student scores in places like Baltimore.
But if you don't even know what "nadir" means, problem solved: just dumb everything down, because if the Politics are right, NOTHING else matters.

Illinois's Shocking Report Card https://www.wsj.com/articles/illinois-shocking-report-card-reading-math-grade-level-decatur-teachers-school-board-11664722519


Which country above the US in education rankings allows untrained military veterans to teach? Oh, right, none of them because it's a stupid idea. But you can find places at the bottom of the rankings that do similar stuff. Eritrea for example. Ooh, 164th in education. That's a good model to emulate.

You'll find the same thing in all Republican views on education. They never advocate what the successful countries are doing, it's always the failures. Social Emotional Learning? Conservatives hate it, but you can find it most of the top school systems like South Korea, Denmark, Singapore, and Norway. Comprehensive sex education in primary schools? Conservatives hate it. Denmark and the Netherlands start teaching it at the kindergarten level, Uganda and Bangladesh don't offer it at all. Which countries do you think have lower rates of STDs, teen pregnancies, rapes, and molestation?

The list just goes on and on. Charter schools with weak oversight. State funded religious schools. Poor teacher support and training. Underpaid teachers. Laws against LGBTQ teaching. Book bans. All Conservative policies towards education. All policies found at the bottom of the rankings. A good rule of thumb to gauge a Conservative education policy is "Does this sound more like something found in Chad or Japan? Laos or Sweden?" 10 out of 10 times you'll find that a Republican stole their idea from the worst school systems in the world.

An old adage states that to be successful you should adopt the habits of successful people. Only idiots think you can improve American education by emulating those below us instead of those above us. You are that idiot.
 
2022-10-07 3:02:35 AM  

replacementcool: mjjt: [Fark user image 500x685]

and the sergeant's name was Abraham Lincoln!


And his top hat clapped
 
2022-10-07 3:10:07 AM  
I considered teaching high school after two decades in the workforce, eight in the military. BA and MS.

First I'd need 1.5 years FT college to get a teaching degree so I could teach in Illinois. Needless to say...

If undergrads are spending that much time learning to teach, when do they learn actual subjects? Nothing I studied was finishable in 2.5 years.

That said, people definitely need to be taught how to teach so there is some real commitment to that required. As currently constructed, it seems like overkill, as if the focus is on education credentials and not on education of students.

The Florida approach won't fix that.
 
2022-10-07 3:11:59 AM  
Reading thru... the hoi palloi are maybe suited to change your oil, but an officer might have earned a free pass. Perhaps also sergeants with a few layers of stripes.

/a running sergeant outranks a lieutenant
 
2022-10-07 3:18:29 AM  
Wait until ohio discovers how many veterans are lefties. Not lib lefty, either. Lefty lefty.
 
2022-10-07 3:20:40 AM  
Cropper said the bill is a shortcut to getting more bodies in the classroom.


I thought that's what the lax gun laws were supposed to cover.
 
2022-10-07 3:22:02 AM  

Weatherkiss: Sounds like an easy path to feeding children to predators, which means the bill will probably pass.


But I was told it's the gay teachers and drag queens that are the real predators!
 
2022-10-07 3:48:27 AM  
So...what's the cutoff here?  Do they need to be a combat veteran? Served 20 years and out?  Or is every fark up 4 and out E-4 that I wouldn't trust to paint a straight line with a stencil going to be teaching in Ohio?
 
2022-10-07 3:59:13 AM  

edmo: I considered teaching high school after two decades in the workforce, eight in the military. BA and MS.

First I'd need 1.5 years FT college to get a teaching degree so I could teach in Illinois. Needless to say...

If undergrads are spending that much time learning to teach, when do they learn actual subjects? Nothing I studied was finishable in 2.5 years.

That said, people definitely need to be taught how to teach so there is some real commitment to that required. As currently constructed, it seems like overkill, as if the focus is on education credentials and not on education of students.

The Florida approach won't fix that.


If you are planning to teach elementary grades, you don't need a subject, you just get a teaching degree. If you want to teach high school you get a BA first. Most teaching certification course work is done post BA. So, you get a degree, take a few teaching pre-reqs, then do your teaching certification coursework.
 
2022-10-07 4:38:10 AM  
Please tell me that there's more required to be a substitue teacher than merely an honorable discharge from any part of the military.
 
2022-10-07 4:39:10 AM  

ansius: Please tell me that there's more required to be a substitue teacher than merely an honorable discharge from any part of the military.


They are requiring an honorable discharge?

Aren't they?
 
2022-10-07 4:45:39 AM  
You've got to throw these poor guys some kind of bone. Your country is to f-ed up to give proper GI benefits like they did in '46.
 
2022-10-07 4:52:55 AM  
Keep this headline in your pocket - "Teacher suspended after hazing allegations", "
 
2022-10-07 5:20:45 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: I feel sorry for the veterans.  If they already don't have mental issues, they will after a year of teaching zoomers.


Happy I'm not the only one to think that....
Sure, yeah. Let trained, licensed professionals teach.
 
2022-10-07 6:00:27 AM  

rzrwiresunrise: Really sick of this cult of putting the military in a pedestal


I teach a remedial math class for the Army. Last year there were 1200 people on the waiting list to learn fractions. Just because they're a vet doesn't mean they know academics, much less be able to teach.
 
2022-10-07 6:11:42 AM  
I could see letting former military officers teach, since they already have a bachelor's degree minimum, and experience working with young people, and this just being a fast past to getting them a teacher's certificate.

I could having a program where you set former NCOs as teachers, once they use their GI Bill to finish getting a degree.  

Both would be good programs.

This is neither of those ideas though, this is simply anti-education Republicans deciding that life experiences are better than actual education, and slamming unqualified people through to be teachers, with the specific plan to both (A) keep the pressure to pay teachers more down, and (B) keep children ignorant so that they don't realize Republicans and the religious right allies are full of crap, and so don't stop supporting them.

Also I realized I used a double negative in that last sentence.  I don't have a college degree, and my poor grammar is a perfect example of why I, despite all my life experiences and life wisdom, should not be a teacher.
 
2022-10-07 6:32:01 AM  
I vaguely remember reading a follow-up article here on Fark that the program in Florida was such a success that so far nobody had applied for it.
 
2022-10-07 6:43:34 AM  

rzrwiresunrise: Really sick of this cult of putting the military in a pedestal


Putting anyone on a pedestal because of their vocation is a terrible idea. Look at the Catholic Church (or any church for that matter) as prime examples but it's across the board.

Teaching *must* require vetting, training and oversight. No exceptions. Not unless Ohio wants to see teachers accused of beating the shiat out of students, or sexually abusing them, or indoctrinating them into white power groups simply because they got a free pass to be a teacher due to prior military experience.
 
2022-10-07 6:55:15 AM  

drxym: Not unless Ohio wants to see teachers accused of beating the shiat out of students, or sexually abusing them, or indoctrinating them into white power groups simply because they got a free pass to be a teacher due to prior military experience.


Why are you implying that Ohio does not want those things?
 
2022-10-07 7:03:29 AM  

Alien Robot: BretMavrik: State Senator Jerry Cirino, of Kirtland, is co-sponsor of Senate Bill 361. "It deals with the shortage of teachers but it also recognizes that there are vets out there who have tremendous training and background," said Cirino.

JFC, even (and especially) the goddamned military doesn't let you touch one goddamned thing and/or discipline that you weren't specifically trained for. Being the best SIGINT analyst doesn't make you even remotely qualified to be a helicopter pilot, underwater welder or third grade reading teacher.

[Fark user image 474x474]
They do have teacher certification paths.


Then getting certified should be trivial, so no need to get rid of the requirement.
 
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