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(CNN)   "But now we know that our soldiers must be properly trained," he says, eight months into the war   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, Russia, Vladimir Putin, Russian forces, Ukraine, Russian soldiers, Ukrainian regions Moscow, Russian-occupied city of Kherson, Russian Defense Ministry  
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2923 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Oct 2022 at 9:05 AM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-10-05 8:55:28 AM  
"I only tell the truth on Tuesdays. On other days, I make things up."

Fact check:  seems to be true.

How very odd.
 
2022-10-05 9:08:54 AM  
I think the Russians are gonna lose Kherson.
That's gonna complicate Vlad's political position even more.
 
2022-10-05 9:09:56 AM  
Don't worry, Ukraine will give them a bit of training after they surrender.
 
2022-10-05 9:10:23 AM  
Reminds me of those early days...

"These are merely the regular soldiers.  Once the Russian ELITE soldiers get there, it will be all over for Ukraine."
 
2022-10-05 9:11:19 AM  

BigMax: "I only tell the truth on Tuesdays. On other days, I make things up."

Fact check:  seems to be true.

How very odd.


Russian humor is very strange.

"We are propagandists lol!" is a weird quip.

Like:
"I only spend the night at my girlfriend's place on Tuesdays.  On other days, I do crime." quipped the defendant.
 
2022-10-05 9:11:40 AM  
I just got to thinking about something.  The people in the region "annexed" by Russia are facing a dilemma.  If they support Russia and they lose, they will face treason charges by Ukraine.  If  they support Ukraine and they lose, they will face treason by Russia.  And, in Russia, if you support Ukraine either way, your family and friends and everyone associated with you lose just by association.
 
2022-10-05 9:11:49 AM  

BigMax: "I only tell the truth on Tuesdays. On other days, I make things up."

Fact check:  seems to be true.

How very odd.


Sounds pretty on-brand for Russian humor/trolling
 
2022-10-05 9:13:39 AM  
Sooooo... four weeks of training instead of two?
 
2022-10-05 9:14:21 AM  
In the book 'Red Storm Rising', the Soviets shot some colonels who falsified readiness reports to show they were serious about getting ready for war.  This was not unnoticed in the West.

Waiting this long to get serious is a weird twist.
 
2022-10-05 9:15:01 AM  
Your best bet is to pull back to your original borders and take a couple years to really get trained up, then you can... oh, wait, Ukraine joined NATO and your economy collapsed in the interim?

What to do with all these newly trained troops, then... guess they could always go after the people who caused all this, up there along the Moskva river
 
2022-10-05 9:19:06 AM  
If/when the Russians lose Kherson, that's gonna f*ck up their invasion even more. Winter will be here fast, and the Russians are gonna have to resupply and dig in. They're not going to be able to resume the assault till spring, if that's even possible anymore.
 
2022-10-05 9:20:53 AM  

Weaver95: If/when the Russians lose Kherson, that's gonna f*ck up their invasion even more. Winter will be here fast, and the Russians are gonna have to resupply and dig in. They're not going to be able to resume the assault till spring, if that's even possible anymore.


Dig in? Winter? No need to overestimate russian warplanners.
 
2022-10-05 9:22:18 AM  
"Knowing this now, we're going to take advantage of the finest Russia has to offer, Bill the Butcher, he's 60, but he has military combat experience... doing airsoft every other weekend for the last year before this war started. He's the best we got, and now he's your CO"
 
2022-10-05 9:24:26 AM  
They were counting on mythology to carry them through but it just doesn't work in the era of GPS and instant communication.

Last time Russia fought an actual war it was still possible to spin things into "da, we are strong like bear, everyone be afraid!" Now when you tell us that your biggest baddest ship of war is totally NOT on fire, we know you're full of crap.

5 guys just hanging out fishing uploaded the video before the commander even knew the thing was on fire. Their own dudes are streaming footage of their shiatty 50 year old equipment from inside the barracks as it's being handed out.

They aren't fooling anyone.
 
2022-10-05 9:24:31 AM  

sozelle: Weaver95: If/when the Russians lose Kherson, that's gonna f*ck up their invasion even more. Winter will be here fast, and the Russians are gonna have to resupply and dig in. They're not going to be able to resume the assault till spring, if that's even possible anymore.

Dig in? Winter? No need to overestimate russian warplanners.


The Russians are certainly welcome to try a winter war with limited supplies, untrained green troops, and no air support over unfamiliar ground against highly motivated better equipped and supplied troops defending their homes from invaders.
 
2022-10-05 9:26:08 AM  

BeesNuts: BigMax: "I only tell the truth on Tuesdays. On other days, I make things up."

Fact check:  seems to be true.

How very odd.

Russian humor is very strange.

"We are propagandists lol!" is a weird quip.

Like:
"I only spend the night at my girlfriend's place on Tuesdays.  On other days, I do crime." quipped the defendant.


Hmm, 'It's the truth disguised as joke' from fascists, propogandists, and their enablers? Why does that ring so familiar?
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-10-05 9:32:08 AM  
I wonder what Ukraine is going to do with all of the Russian POWs.
 
2022-10-05 9:34:04 AM  

iheartscotch: I wonder what Ukraine is going to do with all of the Russian POWs.


Impromptu reactor shielding?
🤷‍♀
 
2022-10-05 9:34:39 AM  
"But now we know that our soldiers must be properly trained."


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-10-05 9:35:48 AM  
If I was a conscript I'd probably opt to try my hand at revolution as soon as they handed me a working gun. You're farked either way and as things currently stand you'd have a better fighting chance against domestic Russian authorities than against the Ukrainians.
 
2022-10-05 9:38:56 AM  

iheartscotch: I wonder what Ukraine is going to do with all of the Russian POWs.


Give them their first proper meal in weeks?
 
2022-10-05 9:40:38 AM  

Bootleg: iheartscotch: I wonder what Ukraine is going to do with all of the Russian POWs.

Give them their first proper meal in weeks?


And then use them as reactor shielding!
What? Ukraine needs reactor shielding.
 
2022-10-05 9:42:33 AM  
Ukraine's army, such as it was at the time (mostly a collection of individual Oligarch-sponsored militias)   got their shiat rocked by the Russian Troops invading Crimea and Donbass back in 2014.   The part of Obama's "non=lethal aid" package was to send over US special Forces trainers and adviser, who pulled a "Baron Von Steuben" on the Ukrainian forces and trained them up into a modern professional army (that, among other things knew not to turn on their cell phones while deployed.   Russia was expected the same armed rabble they faced in Crimea when they invaded, what they got was a well trained, efficent and well supplied fighting force.

They are belatedly realizing maybe they should train THEIR conscripts and prisoners if they want them to be effective.

Won't really help though, because state of the Art Russian training acts like every war is World War II, and the Western  Officer+ strong NCO's model, will cut them to pieces every time.

To use a historical analogy, it's like when one of the last Macedonian kings faced off against the Romans.   The Macedonians used their classic Phalanx with which Alexander had conquered the known world, and the Romans were in the squad-cohort Century etc. formation.   At First the Macedonians looked like they were winning the battle because the romans with their short swords  could come to grips with those long formations of men with 16ft pikes. But as the Romans retreated, and the ground became more uneven, the unwieldly phalanx formations began to get disorganized and scattered, and the smaller and much more maneuverable roman units able to act independently of each other began to carve up the Macedonian formations by out maneuvering them, attacking from several sides  at once , etc.

Russia is like Macedon, very good at throwing a LOT of force in one direction and advancing in a straight line; not so good at improvisation, maneuver, or reacting to battlefield changes
 
2022-10-05 9:46:43 AM  

Weaver95: iheartscotch: I wonder what Ukraine is going to do with all of the Russian POWs.

Impromptu reactor shielding?
🤷‍♀


If you could use only the pro-Putin Slavic Russian nationals.....sure
 
2022-10-05 9:46:53 AM  

Weaver95: If/when the Russians lose Kherson, that's gonna f*ck up their invasion even more. Winter will be here fast, and the Russians are gonna have to resupply and dig in. They're not going to be able to resume the assault till spring, if that's even possible anymore.


Losing Kherson would be bad.  Losing Nova Kakhovka would be even worse.  That's where the North Crimean Canal starts.  If Ukraine can get across the Dnipro and cut off their water again, Putin might find himself under a lot more pressure domestically.
 
2022-10-05 9:49:36 AM  

Olympic Trolling Judge: Weaver95: If/when the Russians lose Kherson, that's gonna f*ck up their invasion even more. Winter will be here fast, and the Russians are gonna have to resupply and dig in. They're not going to be able to resume the assault till spring, if that's even possible anymore.

Losing Kherson would be bad.  Losing Nova Kakhovka would be even worse.  That's where the North Crimean Canal starts.  If Ukraine can get across the Dnipro and cut off their water again, Putin might find himself under a lot more pressure domestically.


It's looking like the Russians will lose Kherson. Unless the Russians have something we don't know about, seems like the Ukrainians will just keep going.
 
2022-10-05 9:51:05 AM  

Schlubbe: Your best bet is to pull back to your original borders and take a couple years to really get trained up, then you can... oh, wait, Ukraine joined NATO and your economy collapsed in the interim?

What to do with all these newly trained troops, then... guess they could always go after the people who caused all this, up there along the Moskva river


Pull a Belka and nuke their own borders?
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-10-05 9:51:59 AM  
It's only grim if you're on the east side of the battle lines.
 
2022-10-05 9:56:02 AM  
At the beginning of this Tuesday's interview, Sladkov quipped: "I only tell the truth on Tuesdays, and for other days I just make everything up."

New advertising slogan for Fox News!!
 
2022-10-05 10:00:18 AM  

iheartscotch: I wonder what Ukraine is going to do with all of the Russian POWs.


They can trade them back to Russia. Or drive them to Michigan, where I hear you get five more cents per Ruskie.
 
2022-10-05 10:08:24 AM  

Magorn: Russia was expected the same armed rabble they faced in Crimea when they invaded, what they got was a well trained, efficent and well supplied fighting force.


And why didn't the Russians know that?   I've been asked these questions from the time of the aborted drive on Kiev:

1) Why didn't the Russian Army know that there would be more than token resistance?

2) Is this a failure of Russia's intelligence services?

3) Did the Russian intelligence agencies know the score, but Putin's yes-men were to afraid to tell him?

4) Was Putin told the truth but he refused to believe it?

5) Was Putin deliberately misled by powerful people in Russia, i.e, he was set-up?

What happened in Ukraine makes zero sense.  Troops not trained?  Bullshiat.  Not even a brand-new second lieutenant sends a column of tanks down a narrow road with no room to maneuver, no infantry support, no air support if he knows he's operating in Indian territory.
 
2022-10-05 10:11:25 AM  

Weaver95: sozelle: Weaver95: If/when the Russians lose Kherson, that's gonna f*ck up their invasion even more. Winter will be here fast, and the Russians are gonna have to resupply and dig in. They're not going to be able to resume the assault till spring, if that's even possible anymore.

Dig in? Winter? No need to overestimate russian warplanners.

The Russians are certainly welcome to try a winter war with limited supplies, untrained green troops, and no air support over unfamiliar ground against highly motivated better equipped and supplied troops defending their homes from invaders.


images2.minutemediacdn.comView Full Size
 
2022-10-05 10:15:47 AM  
big losses in south as pro-Putin voices paint a grim picture of setbacks

Tucker?
 
2022-10-05 10:16:20 AM  
The Russian Empire, dependent on pulling talent from the outlier -stans which are definitely not Russian in language or DNA or whiteness or culture, is showing that arrogance and racism and lack of infrastructure really do payoff in the end.     Really wonder how many differences and likenesses the Roman Empire (which Saint Putin claims to be re-creating in true Eastern Christian mythology) there are.

Romans basically invited peoples in with warm baths, good transportation and variety of trade, single language, and easily obtained and valued citizenship.  Russia is a kleptocracy.
 
2022-10-05 10:19:09 AM  

MinatoArisato013: Schlubbe: Your best bet is to pull back to your original borders and take a couple years to really get trained up, then you can... oh, wait, Ukraine joined NATO and your economy collapsed in the interim?

What to do with all these newly trained troops, then... guess they could always go after the people who caused all this, up there along the Moskva river

Pull a Belka and nuke their own borders?
[Fark user image 187x750]


I really need to finish Ace Combat 7...
 
2022-10-05 10:23:21 AM  

Alphax: In the book 'Red Storm Rising', the Soviets shot some colonels who falsified readiness reports to show they were serious about getting ready for war.  This was not unnoticed in the West.

Waiting this long to get serious is a weird twist.


They seem to have continually expected the West to fall for their bluff throughout this whole affair... And now they're down to the nuclear bluff, and doing whatever they can to placate their own citizens into believing this isn't a total failure ..
 
2022-10-05 10:28:14 AM  

Fissile: Magorn: Russia was expected the same armed rabble they faced in Crimea when they invaded, what they got was a well trained, efficent and well supplied fighting force.

And why didn't the Russians know that?   I've been asked these questions from the time of the aborted drive on Kiev:

1) Why didn't the Russian Army know that there would be more than token resistance?

2) Is this a failure of Russia's intelligence services?

3) Did the Russian intelligence agencies know the score, but Putin's yes-men were to afraid to tell him?

4) Was Putin told the truth but he refused to believe it?

5) Was Putin deliberately misled by powerful people in Russia, i.e, he was set-up?

What happened in Ukraine makes zero sense.  Troops not trained?  Bullshiat.  Not even a brand-new second lieutenant sends a column of tanks down a narrow road with no room to maneuver, no infantry support, no air support if he knows he's operating in Indian territory.


the discussion I have seen revolve around a couple of points:

Russia planned on a "seven day" decapitation war that was supposed to have everything done before the western powers could effectively respond. Their army was set up for short intense lunges to break through and seize the objectives rapidly.

And the Russians have very successful implemented this kind of war many times on the past - Crimea and Georgia are examples. Nibble off chunks and annex as you go. (My side thought: if Russia had struck to the Donbas, they likely would have been successful with this "nibble" tactic). Ukraine was a much bigger bite predicated on the decapitation plan.

Plus add in a lot of hubris "we're Russia and big and rough and tough, Ukraine can't stop us" mixed with not wanting to bring bad news to the boss.

And Russian army control is at the officer level and the enlisted are not expected to make decisions. So the plan is given to the army and the army is expected to execute the provided plan.

Western armies (and ukraine) have been trained to push initiative down to the NCO level, so the NCOs can adjust tactics to achieve goals based on local conditions.

So when these two different war fighting systems ran into each to other north of Kyiv - Russia did not get the big "set piece" tank battles it was hoping to crush ukraine with. Ukraine responded with stalling tactics designed to stall the advance and bleed the Russian advance.

And all of the armies are desperately trying to find a reliable repeatable counter to anti-tank weapons.
 
2022-10-05 10:39:05 AM  

Fissile: Magorn: Russia was expected the same armed rabble they faced in Crimea when they invaded, what they got was a well trained, efficent and well supplied fighting force.

And why didn't the Russians know that?   I've been asked these questions from the time of the aborted drive on Kiev:

1) Why didn't the Russian Army know that there would be more than token resistance?

2) Is this a failure of Russia's intelligence services?

3) Did the Russian intelligence agencies know the score, but Putin's yes-men were to afraid to tell him?

4) Was Putin told the truth but he refused to believe it?

5) Was Putin deliberately misled by powerful people in Russia, i.e, he was set-up?

What happened in Ukraine makes zero sense.  Troops not trained?  Bullshiat.  Not even a brand-new second lieutenant sends a column of tanks down a narrow road with no room to maneuver, no infantry support, no air support if he knows he's operating in Indian territory.


I would guess it's #3

I think they also assumed their tanks would mostly be for show, they seem to have earnestly assumed they could take the capitol in hours and Ukrainian leadership would buckle. There were those early stories of the invasion force bringing along their parade uniforms.
 
2022-10-05 10:41:37 AM  

BitwiseShift: The Russian Empire, dependent on pulling talent from the outlier -stans which are definitely not Russian in language or DNA or whiteness or culture, is showing that arrogance and racism and lack of infrastructure really do payoff in the end.     Really wonder how many differences and likenesses the Roman Empire (which Saint Putin claims to be re-creating in true Eastern Christian mythology) there are.

Romans basically invited peoples in with warm baths, good transportation and variety of trade, single language, and easily obtained and valued citizenship.  Russia is a kleptocracy.


Russia's Minster of Defense, Sergei Shoigu, is Mongolian.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-10-05 10:48:17 AM  
I think the whole "trains running on time" type myth is one of the most destructive ever spread by humans. Psychopaths are not brilliant schemers and master manipulators, they are dysfunctional messes that push their problems onto other people until they become so great that they can no longer fool themselves or others. The reason they seem to do well is because they take advantage of the general assumption of good faith that forms the foundation of society. They pretend to be doing things that make sense to hide the fact that they are doing things that make absolutely no sense and it goes unnoticed because why the hell would anyone do that?

Seeing Putin go "We must make these bad decisions because of bad decisions that we have made in the past and it's all everybody else's fault" is identical to every dim-witted piece of crap I've ever met. Psychopathy is a developmental disability of basic abilities like object permanance and results in evil toddlers with the brain and body of adults. The idea that it is beneficial or useful to have such a disability is purely a myth spread by the psychopaths that reflects the way they wish things would be.
 
2022-10-05 10:51:25 AM  

Elfich: Western armies (and ukraine) have been trained

to push initiative down to the NCO level, so the NCOs can adjust tactics to achieve goals based on local conditions.

That goes double for Hitler's Army.  Hitler's Army failed miserably in Russia.
 
2022-10-05 10:58:07 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Fissile: Magorn: Russia was expected the same armed rabble they faced in Crimea when they invaded, what they got was a well trained, efficent and well supplied fighting force.

And why didn't the Russians know that?   I've been asked these questions from the time of the aborted drive on Kiev:

1) Why didn't the Russian Army know that there would be more than token resistance?

2) Is this a failure of Russia's intelligence services?

3) Did the Russian intelligence agencies know the score, but Putin's yes-men were to afraid to tell him?

4) Was Putin told the truth but he refused to believe it?

5) Was Putin deliberately misled by powerful people in Russia, i.e, he was set-up?

What happened in Ukraine makes zero sense.  Troops not trained?  Bullshiat.  Not even a brand-new second lieutenant sends a column of tanks down a narrow road with no room to maneuver, no infantry support, no air support if he knows he's operating in Indian territory.

I would guess it's #3

I think they also assumed their tanks would mostly be for show, they seem to have earnestly assumed they could take the capitol in hours and Ukrainian leadership would buckle. There were those early stories of the invasion force bringing along their parade uniforms.



Russian commanders had no reason to believe they were operating in hostile territory, all of their enemies were supposed to have been bribed beforehand. Putin had given the FSB a lot of money to pay the bribes, the FSB claimed they had paid the bribes but it seems mostly the money went into FSB pockets.
 
2022-10-05 11:57:05 AM  

iheartscotch: I wonder what Ukraine is going to do with all of the Russian POWs.


Should put them to work rebuilding all the things the Russians have bombed to the ground.
 
2022-10-05 12:11:31 PM  

falkone32: I think the whole "trains running on time" type myth is one of the most destructive ever spread by humans. Psychopaths are not brilliant schemers and master manipulators, they are dysfunctional messes that push their problems onto other people until they become so great that they can no longer fool themselves or others. The reason they seem to do well is because they take advantage of the general assumption of good faith that forms the foundation of society. They pretend to be doing things that make sense to hide the fact that they are doing things that make absolutely no sense and it goes unnoticed because why the hell would anyone do that?


This paragraph above had my re-activate my Fark account, after many years of lurking, just to +1 it.
I was jotting it down before it came to that.  Also an astute analysis of some folks I've had the displeasure to know.
 
2022-10-05 12:15:08 PM  
I see Fissile is coming into this thread "just asking questions."  It's not in good faith, he's just shillin' for an incredibly undervalued ruble.

Almost gave you points for your "but I have a black friend!" permutation of "Shoigu is a Mongolian" but it's still transparent.  Shoigu can be trusted to run the Defense ministry because, as a non-Russian he'd never be accepted as a head of state to replace Putin.  You know, due to the endemic racism in Russia.

The truth is the exact opposite of your implication, as usual.
 
2022-10-05 12:21:51 PM  
"The key to our success will be a well trained military, and good equipment. The keys to our success will be a well trained and well equiped military, with a clear strategy for defeating the enemy. The three keys to our success will be ... I'll go out and come back in again."
 
2022-10-05 12:33:21 PM  

Fissile: Elfich: Western armies (and ukraine) have been trained to push initiative down to the NCO level, so the NCOs can adjust tactics to achieve goals based on local conditions.

That goes double for Hitler's Army.  Hitler's Army failed miserably in Russia.


Hitler's armies did very well in Russia in 1941: they rolled the larger Soviet Army back all the way to Moscow (pushing the Red Army towards its base of supply while stretching their own), occupied hundreds of thousands of square miles, and captured or killed millions of Red Army soldiers.  The ratio of Soviet to German casualties was probably nearly 10:1 the first six months.

If they hadn't delayed 38 days, they probably would have taken Moscow and won the war.

Eventually, of course, they lost, but they still had a casualty rate of like 5:1 over the Red Army.
 
2022-10-05 12:44:13 PM  
If the Russians can hit that bullseye the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards ...  checkmate.
 
2022-10-05 12:53:34 PM  

rabidferret: I see Fissile is coming into this thread "just asking questions."  It's not in good faith, he's just shillin' for an incredibly undervalued ruble.

Almost gave you points for your "but I have a black friend!" permutation of "Shoigu is a Mongolian" but it's still transparent.  Shoigu can be trusted to run the Defense ministry because, as a non-Russian he'd never be accepted as a head of state to replace Putin.  You know, due to the endemic racism in Russia.

The truth is the exact opposite of your implication, as usual.


Stalin (true name Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvil) was not Russian, he was Georgian, and not Slavic at all.

Large numbers of those "Russian" troops currently in Ukraine are not Slavic.  A disproportion number of those troops are Chechens, Dagestanis, etc.  Putin didn't trust the loyalty of Slavic Russians troops being sent to attack fellow Slavs (the Ukrainians).  Russians, Ukrainians, Belorussians, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Slovenes, Croats, Serbs, Bulgarians are all ethnically Slavic.  Ethnic fealty is the main reason why the majority of Russians are less than enthusiastic about attacking Ukrainians.

This is how empires work:  If your empire is having trouble with ethnic Group A, you send ethnic Group B to deal with them.    Let's say those Trumpanzees actually managed to get a large scale armed insurrection off the ground.  Who do you think the generals will send after them?  White troops?  You think that white marine is gonna shoot daddy or uncle Joe?  Nope.  They'll send black, Hispanic and Asian troops, who will be more than happy to dispatch the uppity MAGAs.
 
2022-10-05 1:05:40 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Reminds me of those early days...

"These are merely the regular soldiers.  Once the Russian ELITE soldiers get there, it will be all over for Ukraine."


Did those soldiers check a map?
 
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