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(Ars Technica)   Russian diplomat suggests that letting Ukrainians use Starlink violates treaty on peaceful use of outer space, and Starlink satellites might be targeted. Subby invites Russia to waste 2,000+ missiles on blowing up Starlinks   (arstechnica.com) divider line
    More: Stupid, Satellite, Outer space, Russian diplomat, civilian satellites, space threats, SpaceX's Starlink division, Russia, harmless use of outer space technologies  
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1029 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Oct 2022 at 3:10 AM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-10-03 2:28:59 AM  
It would be practically impossible for Russia to take out all the Starlink satellites with any weapon that needs to be launched. SpaceX accounts for 2/3 of the world's mass to orbit last year. If they ever finish Starship they'll be more like 90%.

They'd need to use energy weapons or hack the Satellites or jam them, but each of those have their own difficulties.
 
2022-10-03 2:33:39 AM  
Geneva Convention is a treaty too, but they don't seem to care about that.
 
2022-10-03 2:50:01 AM  
In that case, I'd say GLONASS satellites have the same issue.

Assuming they have any receivers left and aren't just giving troops directions on the back of an old envelope.
 
2022-10-03 3:12:36 AM  
russian diplomat suggests that the Ukrainians are being aided at night by the light of the moon and the moon might be targeted.
 
2022-10-03 3:21:47 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-10-03 3:22:49 AM  
Russia's been rattling their saber so long that the damn thing has basically vibrated itself into dust in the scabbard.
 
2022-10-03 3:25:08 AM  
Don't fark with Elon Musk or his followers will make your life on Twitter a living hell.
 
2022-10-03 3:27:53 AM  
With everything we've seen come out of Russia this year, I am shocked that for a short while that corrupt kleptocratic shiathole of a country was the only consistent means of getting into space.
 
2022-10-03 3:28:51 AM  
What are they gonna do? Just walk past security at STAR labs and turn off the link?
 
2022-10-03 3:34:46 AM  
I see no downside to this... for everyone but Russia and Elon Musk
 
2022-10-03 3:48:10 AM  

kbronsito: What are they gonna do? Just walk past security at STAR labs and turn off the link?

[CaptAmericaIunderstoodThatReference,jpg]
 
2022-10-03 3:48:40 AM  

Nicki Minaj's Cousin's Friend's Swollen Testicle: Don't fark with Elon Musk or his followers will make your life on Twitter a living hell.


Oh god, Russian troll farms vs. Tesla cultists. That'd be a nightmare from the secondhand annoyance alone.
 
2022-10-03 3:49:09 AM  

kkinnison: I see no downside to this... for everyone but Russia and Elon Musk


Mmmm, it would cause significant problems for all of us.

The Kessler syndrome (also called the Kessler effect, collisional cascading, or ablation cascade), proposed by NASA scientist Donald J Kessler in 1978, is a scenario in which the density of objects in low Earth orbit (LEO) due to space pollution is high enough that collisions between objects could cause a cascade in which each collision generates space debris that increases the likelihood of further collisions. In 2009 Kessler wrote that modeling results had concluded that the debris environment was already unstable, "such that any attempt to achieve a growth-free small debris environment by eliminating sources of past debris will likely fail because fragments from future collisions will be generated faster than atmospheric drag will remove them". One implication is that the distribution of debris in orbit could render space activities and the use of satellites in specific orbital ranges difficult for many generations.

(Poached from Wikipedia and edited, due to all their f*ckin citation links)
 
2022-10-03 3:53:16 AM  
Fark Starlink.

It's a massive waste of resources now and in the future.

You don't want what Musk is hocking.
 
2022-10-03 4:01:04 AM  

LordJiro: Russia's been rattling their saber so long that the damn thing has basically vibrated itself into dust in the scabbard.


nah it just fell off (russian workmanship)
 
2022-10-03 4:01:21 AM  
Invading force upset defenders defending.
 
2022-10-03 4:06:36 AM  

Redh8t: (Poached from Wikipedia and edited, due to all their f*ckin citation links)


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-10-03 4:21:31 AM  

Nicki Minaj's Cousin's Friend's Swollen Testicle: Don't fark with Elon Musk or his followers will make your life on Twitter a living hell.


Yeah but you are on twitter already, so its just a matter of details
 
2022-10-03 4:24:04 AM  

Ishkur: With everything we've seen come out of Russia this year, I am shocked that for a short while that corrupt kleptocratic shiathole of a country was the only consistent means of getting into space.


People want to escape Russia more than Ohio. It's THAT awful.
 
2022-10-03 4:32:32 AM  
Don't destroy all land-based civilian infrastructure for internet access, then. If Ukraine has an advantage in internet access thanks to Starlink, it's because you destroyed the existing internet access and that's what they had to rely on, but Starlink did not provide the same technology to you. A terrestrial connection is almost always going to have a lower ping than satellite, but satellite is better than nothing. So basically, you farked up.
 
2022-10-03 4:33:41 AM  

DannyBrandt: Redh8t: (Poached from Wikipedia and edited, due to all their f*ckin citation links)

[Fark user image 163x163]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-10-03 4:41:53 AM  

Redh8t: kkinnison: I see no downside to this... for everyone but Russia and Elon Musk

Mmmm, it would cause significant problems for all of us.

The Kessler syndrome (also called the Kessler effect, collisional cascading,...


Debris from very low Earth orbit that Starlink is at will self clean in a year or two. They are regularly boosting themselves up into higher orbit.
 
2022-10-03 4:48:44 AM  
I'm glad someone here posted a YT video of a starlink train. Because if I saw that out in the wild with no idea what it was, I would freak the f*ck out.

I guarantee several thousands rounds have been fired towards those things.
 
2022-10-03 4:48:51 AM  
Well, this'll confuse a lot of angry young white men. Who do they support? Putin or Musk?
 
2022-10-03 4:49:27 AM  
Would one missile cause a massive cluster fark in that orbit? Chinese shiat might be taken out along with that shiat.
 
2022-10-03 4:50:10 AM  

mistahtom: Fark Starlink.

It's a massive waste of resources now and in the future.

You don't want what Musk is hocking.


How to tell us that you have alternate broadband options where you live without telling us you have alternate broadband options where you live.
 
2022-10-03 4:56:29 AM  

Wobambo: Ishkur: With everything we've seen come out of Russia this year, I am shocked that for a short while that corrupt kleptocratic shiathole of a country was the only consistent means of getting into space.

People want to escape Russia more than Ohio. It's THAT awful.


Don't mistake resources for.motivation
 
2022-10-03 5:00:25 AM  
Musk to call Putin a pedophile in 3, 2...
 
2022-10-03 5:04:53 AM  

LL316: Musk to call Putin a pedophile in 3, 2...


Even a stopped clock yatta yatta....
 
2022-10-03 5:06:58 AM  
In April, Vice President Kamala Harris said the US "commits not to conduct destructive direct-ascent anti-satellite missile testing" and called on all other countries to follow suit. "Simply put: These tests are dangerous, and we will not conduct them," Harris said.

We just hit a rock 7 millions miles away from earth, with a spacecraft built for that purpose.
I don't think the US needs to test the ability to hit a satellite.
 
2022-10-03 5:09:59 AM  
Good luck with that, you f*cking invading tribe of Orcs.
 
2022-10-03 5:19:15 AM  

LL316: Musk to call Putin a pedophile in 3, 2...


At least he wouldn't be wrong this time...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/alexander-litvinenko-was-killed-for-calling-putin-a-pedophile
 
2022-10-03 5:22:49 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-10-03 5:23:51 AM  
Well, one rather low-tech payload could probably take them all out, and everything else in LEO, and make it practically impossible to replace them for a long time to come.

That would of course be an insane thing to do, but hey, we're talking about a country that just wrecked its own underwater gas pipelines for the lulz and can't stop talking about its nuclear war boner.
 
2022-10-03 5:27:36 AM  
The only countries that could destroy satellites without repercussions are countries without a space program, so this whole argument is moot. Destroying satellites not only creates massive amounts of space debris, but it also invites everyone else to blow up your satellites. Satellites are some of the most expensive pieces of equipment out there. Just ask the use, where 2/3 of the "black" (classified) budget goes to reconnaissance. A single spy satellite could be as expensive as the cruiser Moskva. Russia has a substantial amount of infrastructure in space, and it would be a shame to see it eliminated.

Also, who the heck would prioritize destroying Starlink satellites over a (several billion dollar) US spy sat? Priorities...
 
2022-10-03 5:36:10 AM  
So I wonder - how much delta-v can one Starlink sat muster? Imagine thousands of Starlink satellites floating around, orbiting the earth, relaying comms until someone selects say 1% of the fleet and tells them to boost. Suddenly you have a very large fleet of speeding metal that will go where you tell it to within the limits of fuel and orbital dynamics. And imagine if there is more fuel than we thought in some percentage of those devices. The possibilities are... interesting.
 
2022-10-03 5:44:03 AM  

jakedata: So I wonder - how much delta-v can one Starlink sat muster? Imagine thousands of Starlink satellites floating around, orbiting the earth, relaying comms until someone selects say 1% of the fleet and tells them to boost. Suddenly you have a very large fleet of speeding metal that will go where you tell it to within the limits of fuel and orbital dynamics. And imagine if there is more fuel than we thought in some percentage of those devices. The possibilities are... interesting.


Well, the thing is, Starlink isn't geo-stationary, so they're already on the move (same for GPS).  They would be moving faster.  And considering the speeds they have to go at to maintain orbit (space shuttle required Mach 23+ for high earth orbit and it gets faster for low earth orbit to resist the stronger pull of gravity), it's not like they're going to be easy to target.  Hence the likely impotent rage speech from Russia.
 
2022-10-03 5:51:29 AM  
Stolen Ukrainian Grain Fueling Putin's War Machine | FRONTLINE + @Associated Press
Youtube V3SovKRLJss
 
2022-10-03 6:05:09 AM  
This is just Russia hoping they find something to threaten that will make the wet blink. Their nuclear saber rattling is not working. Neither is their annexations or their energy threats with Nord Stream. Now it's assets of U.S. companies. Russia is defeated, Putin is just in denial. This is another one of the final throes of Putin's denial.
 
2022-10-03 6:11:09 AM  
Next threat will be to ban wearing of Adibas and Pumo tracksuits.
 
2022-10-03 6:12:07 AM  
I'm sure Musk and his fan boys will find a way to blame this on Democrats
 
2022-10-03 6:17:41 AM  
Translation: The Plan says we have to cut the victimized country off from global communications, but they're using satellite communications to get around the destruction of ground-based transmitters. Can't you see we're trying to run a genocide here? Letting the victims broadcast factual information is bad for the victimizers. It's not fair!

By all means, Ivanoshka. Expend whatever anti-satellite assets you still have in working order trying to destroy/mission-kill a bunch of communication satellites. That could never have any negative effects for your country in any way, and there's no possibility of those satellites ever being replaced. Please proceed.
 
2022-10-03 6:26:38 AM  

Excelsior: mistahtom: Fark Starlink.

It's a massive waste of resources now and in the future.

You don't want what Musk is hocking.

How to tell us that you have alternate broadband options where you live without telling us you have alternate broadband options where you live.


I have a coworker who just set up Starlink. He's finally off of terrible expensive line-of-sight wireless, his other options being traditional satellite or DSL.

I would give him shiat for it, but it makes sense in his case.
 
2022-10-03 6:27:18 AM  
Pretty sure the orcs can use Starlink, too.
 
2022-10-03 6:29:16 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Would one missile cause a massive cluster fark in that orbit? Chinese shiat might be taken out along with that shiat.


Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is.
 
2022-10-03 6:29:44 AM  
Apparently, Russian Diplomats went to the same school as Pumpkin and Honey Bunny.

Everybody be cool, this is a robbery! l Pulp Fiction
Youtube jh_Rtese2Ag


/NSFW language
//Obiously.
///Click at your own peril
 
2022-10-03 6:31:59 AM  
During peacetime it would be perfectly fine for Ukraine to use Starlinks, right?  But if Russia invades Ukraine, it then becomes treaty violation for Ukraine to use Starlinks.  Because Russia invaded.  How is that supposed to make any sense?  That's like, you can use your cell phone in your house, unless I break in and start annexing your rec room, then it's illegal for you to use it.
 
2022-10-03 7:04:46 AM  

OrionXVI: it's not like they're going to be easy to target


I envision Starlink doing the targeting.
 
2022-10-03 7:12:14 AM  
If the US allowed it, Tesla by itself would probably win in a war against Russia.
 
2022-10-03 7:24:22 AM  

jakedata: OrionXVI: it's not like they're going to be easy to target

I envision Starlink doing the targeting.


Russia is really getting tired of Ukraine having better eyes on them than they have on Ukraine forces. Between the commercial grade connections, the coordination of civilians with the military, and artillery that can literally coordinate fire using a cell phone app, the Russians are really just getting weary of having everyone in their business, and calling down fire on them.

Of course, the Russians haven't seen what a C-130 flaring out the Hand of God down on them can do yet either, so maybe they should just be thankful that Ukraine as a lot of off the shelf tech at their disposal.
 
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