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(TMJ4 Milwaukee)   Not news: Hyundai/Kia cars are exceedingly easy to steal. News: Hyundai finally has a fix for the problem. Fark (you Hyundai): At the vehicle owner's expense   (tmj4.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Automobile, Police data, Hyundai owners, Alarmtronix owner Randy Torgrud, Vehicle, special security kits, Blanche Galloway, Hyundai vehicles  
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1227 clicks; posted to Business » on 01 Oct 2022 at 6:02 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



45 Comments     (+0 »)
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2022-10-01 2:49:17 PM  
Well those Korean aren't exactly in the best shape.
 
2022-10-01 3:05:41 PM  
IANAL but wouldn't a manufacturer that makes an easily stolen car be partially at fault when it is stolen and misused, possibly causing damage to persons/property?
 
2022-10-01 3:44:05 PM  

TheHighlandHowler: IANAL but wouldn't a manufacturer that makes an easily stolen car be partially at fault when it is stolen and misused, possibly causing damage to persons/property?


IAAL.  And the answer is no. Just as you would not be deemed at fault if you left your bicycle unlocked on your porch and some asshole stole it and caused an accident.
 
2022-10-01 6:06:48 PM  
But what about the other six days of the week?
 
2022-10-01 6:17:53 PM  
If available to owners, there are other aftermarket anti-theft options that are pretty good: https://www.ravelco.com
 
2022-10-01 6:28:26 PM  
If they cheaped out on this basic security measure, what else did they cheap out on?

I've heard Kia's burn oil.  As in, if you get an oil change every 3,000 miles you won't notice it.  But it adds wear to the engine.

Then again, I know a couple folks who drive Kia's and they love them.  I myself rented a top end Hyundai for a weekend 15 or so years ago, I loved it.

Pretty sure this is what they call YMMV.
 
2022-10-01 6:31:12 PM  

Cyberluddite: TheHighlandHowler: IANAL but wouldn't a manufacturer that makes an easily stolen car be partially at fault when it is stolen and misused, possibly causing damage to persons/property?

IAAL.  And the answer is no. Just as you would not be deemed at fault if you left your bicycle unlocked on your porch and some asshole stole it and caused an accident.


Cavet Emptor.
 
2022-10-01 6:51:54 PM  
We've been using a steering wheel lock on my wife's hyundai since this all started. So far so good and it was $75 from the local parts place.
 
2022-10-01 6:54:24 PM  

Cyberluddite: TheHighlandHowler: IANAL but wouldn't a manufacturer that makes an easily stolen car be partially at fault when it is stolen and misused, possibly causing damage to persons/property?

IAAL.  And the answer is no. Just as you would not be deemed at fault if you left your bicycle unlocked on your porch and some asshole stole it and caused an accident.


But what if you LOCKED your bicycle or car?
 
2022-10-01 6:57:47 PM  
So they're basically putting a Viper system on it?

I was a mechanic for over 30 years and I never saw an aftermarket alarm system that wasn't total crap.  The kids stealing them now will have a 30 second bypass around the system within a week of the new systems hiatting the street.
 
2022-10-01 6:59:07 PM  
People, don't waste your money if the car is a manual.
 
2022-10-01 7:16:01 PM  

TheHighlandHowler: IANAL but wouldn't a manufacturer that makes an easily stolen car be partially at fault when it is stolen and misused, possibly causing damage to persons/property?


If your easily stolen phone gets stolen and the thief throws it at someone's head and hurts them is Apple at fault?

Hyundai isn't out there stealing the cars. Blaming Hyundai is like blaming the car owners.

They've now come to learn that America is an unsafe place and have now started adding security features for the market.
 
2022-10-01 7:35:00 PM  
Is this still the issue with the key ignition cylinder?  Or have they found a new one?

Snotnose: If they cheaped out on this basic security measure, what else did they cheap out on?

I've heard Kia's burn oil.  As in, if you get an oil change every 3,000 miles you won't notice it.  But it adds wear to the engine.

Then again, I know a couple folks who drive Kia's and they love them.  I myself rented a top end Hyundai for a weekend 15 or so years ago, I loved it.

Pretty sure this is what they call YMMV.


I had to replace a '13 Kia Soul this summer.  Got rear ended at a stop light.  Never had an issue with burning oil in the 6 years I had it.  Had to have one recall repair done (reprogramming the ECU), otherwise it was just normal consumables; brake pads, tires, fluids, filters, wiper blades.  It was solid, reliable, if not exciting transportation.
 
2022-10-01 7:45:22 PM  

TheHighlandHowler: IANAL but wouldn't a manufacturer that makes an easily stolen car be partially at fault when it is stolen and misused, possibly causing damage to persons/property?


manufacturers repeatedly get away with poor engineering that becomes a insurance issue. how the insurance companies are fine with this, i don't get it. there has to be some backdoor hijinx at play.
 
2022-10-01 7:50:55 PM  
We bought my mom a Club for her Santa Fe.  Though this was before we learned that the security flaw didn't include push-button-start models.
 
2022-10-01 7:56:54 PM  

sinko swimo: TheHighlandHowler: IANAL but wouldn't a manufacturer that makes an easily stolen car be partially at fault when it is stolen and misused, possibly causing damage to persons/property?

manufacturers repeatedly get away with poor engineering that becomes a insurance issue. how the insurance companies are fine with this, i don't get it. there has to be some backdoor hijinx at play.


Insurance companies are beginning to not insure non transponder vehicles.
 
2022-10-01 8:00:22 PM  

Insult Comic Bishounen: We bought my mom a Club for her Santa Fe.  Though this was before we learned that the security flaw didn't include push-button-start models.


The Club is useless.  A thief can cut through the steering wheel with a hacksaw in under 45 seconds.  Two seconds if he has bolt xutters
 
2022-10-01 8:00:40 PM  

Chief Superintendent Lookout: Insult Comic Bishounen: We bought my mom a Club for her Santa Fe.  Though this was before we learned that the security flaw didn't include push-button-start models.

The Club is useless.  A thief can cut through the steering wheel with a hacksaw in under 45 seconds.  Two seconds if he has bolt xutters


Cutter.  Stewpid fone.
 
2022-10-01 8:05:30 PM  
$300 to maybe prevent your car from getting stolen?

Rather spend that on insurance, or better yet sell the car and get something else

oh wait, there is a shortage of used cars on the market.  Well F
 
2022-10-01 8:11:10 PM  

scanman61: So they're basically putting a Viper system on it?

I was a mechanic for over 30 years and I never saw an aftermarket alarm system that wasn't total crap.  The kids stealing them now will have a 30 second bypass around the system within a week of the new systems hiatting the street.


They're adding an immobilizer. Are you saying that if an immobilizer is only effective if the vehicle came with it from the factory?
 
2022-10-01 8:37:37 PM  

Snotnose: ...I've heard Kia's burn oil.  As in, if you get an oil change every 3,000 miles you won't notice it.  But it adds wear to the engine.


I'd say no. We have a 2011 Soul with about 200k on it, and other than replacing the alternator, a couple brake jobs, sway-bar links, and a purge valve on the gas tank, it still runs good, with no oil consumption and no leaks.

Would have bought another, but the Hyundai models were more readily available when we started looking.
 
2022-10-01 8:57:43 PM  

pdieten: scanman61: So they're basically putting a Viper system on it?

I was a mechanic for over 30 years and I never saw an aftermarket alarm system that wasn't total crap.  The kids stealing them now will have a 30 second bypass around the system within a week of the new systems hiatting the street.

They're adding an immobilizer. Are you saying that if an immobilizer is only effective if the vehicle came with it from the factory?


Yes.

If it piggybacks on the factory wiring it can be easily bypassed if you either understand automotive electrical or have watched a YouTube video on how to bypass it.  I used to do it at the shop on a regular basis on towed in cars with failed add on systems.

A factory immobilizer system is written into the ECM firmware.  Unless it gets the "everything's cool" message over the CAN it isn't going to allow starter engagement OR injector/coil control.  This ain't that kind of system, not for under $300.  You'd have to replace the ECM at minimum to get a real immobilizer system and that's gonna cost a LOT more.
 
2022-10-01 9:30:23 PM  
Hmmm. You would think that the fact they are a Hyundai, or a Kia alone would have kept them from being stolen

/I kid. I know Hyundai is one of the most popular cars in th US
 
2022-10-01 9:32:49 PM  
We've got a 2006 Kia Spectra5. It doesn't seem to be on the hit list.

And it doesn't use oil and we've had exactly one major repair, a radiator seam split. I believe in taking good care of equipment.
 
2022-10-01 9:35:19 PM  

Insult Comic Bishounen: We bought my mom a Club for her Santa Fe.  Though this was before we learned that the security flaw didn't include push-button-start models.


Mom thanks you.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-10-01 9:40:06 PM  
So after paying $300, the owner will get to their Kia and notice the window's been smashed and the steering column cover has been ripped open. I guess that's better than no vehicle at all, but still not good.
 
2022-10-01 10:02:28 PM  
A fix that will only work on cars stolen on Saturday?

Weird flex but okay.
 
2022-10-01 10:14:55 PM  
Is this related to that exploit where people can steal Kias and Hyundais using just a USB cord?
 
2022-10-01 10:24:51 PM  
Gotta say pretty happy with our Hyundai even if I'm still trying to pronounce it right. I'd absolutely consider buying another one.
 
2022-10-01 10:46:53 PM  

mofa: Is this related to that exploit where people can steal Kias and Hyundais using just a USB cord?


The USB-A end of the cable fits around the ignition collar where the key is inserted. But you need to rip off the steering column cover first to expose the collar. 

The way this was first reported, it sounded like you just plug in to one of the USB ports and away you go.
 
2022-10-01 10:59:56 PM  
Anyone buying a Hyundai or Kia knows that they're taking a risk buying a cheap, and likely shiatty, car.
 
2022-10-01 11:07:56 PM  
I had a 2001 Hyundai Elantra that I drove until 2017. Worked pretty well, though lots of cheap stuff broke. Radio button, sun visor, shifter knob. Just weird chintzy stuff.

Biggest issue I had with it was the airbag light went on, took it in to find out what's wrong with it, and they tell me some connecting cord had malfunctioned. They said it was "normal wear-and-tear" so the warranty wouldn't cover it. I was like, "how can a farking airbag malfunction be normal wear and tear?? I never use the thing!" They wouldn't cover it though. Couple years and a state move later, same thing happens and different dealer says the same thing, it's wear and tear and they won't cover it. Couple more years and another state move later, I get a letter saying there was a factory recall on the airbag because of a connecting cord malfunction. Called both dealers about it and they basically told me to go fark myself.

I'll never buy anything from any Hyundai dealer ever again. farking scum.
 
2022-10-01 11:17:18 PM  

valkore: So after paying $300, the owner will get to their Kia and notice the window's been smashed and the steering column cover has been ripped open. I guess that's better than no vehicle at all, but still not good.


Maybe they'll give you a sticker? At least then you're letting the car thief know they'd better bring more than a USB cord and a flat head screwdriver if they want to boost this particular car.
 
2022-10-01 11:21:01 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-10-01 11:21:49 PM  

pheelix: valkore: So after paying $300, the owner will get to their Kia and notice the window's been smashed and the steering column cover has been ripped open. I guess that's better than no vehicle at all, but still not good.

Maybe they'll give you a sticker? At least then you're letting the car thief know they'd better bring more than a USB cord and a flat head screwdriver if they want to boost this particular car.


People are going to put that sticker on their cars, fixed security or not.
 
2022-10-02 1:44:49 AM  

Russ1642: pheelix: valkore: So after paying $300, the owner will get to their Kia and notice the window's been smashed and the steering column cover has been ripped open. I guess that's better than no vehicle at all, but still not good.

Maybe they'll give you a sticker? At least then you're letting the car thief know they'd better bring more than a USB cord and a flat head screwdriver if they want to boost this particular car.

People are going to put that sticker on their cars, fixed security or not.


No different than people who put ADT stickers on the doors and windows of their house.
 
2022-10-02 4:54:41 AM  

ModernPrimitive01: We've been using a steering wheel lock on my wife's hyundai since this all started. So far so good and it was $75 from the local parts place.


Thieves love "The Club".  It actually makes the car easier to steal.  A pro thief will carry a short piece of a hacksaw blade to cut through the plastic steering wheel in a couple seconds. They are then able to release The Club and use it to apply a huge amount of torque to the steering wheel and break the lock on the steering column (which most cars were already equipped with). The pro thieves actually sought out cars with The Club on them because they didn't want to carry a long pry bar that was too hard to conceal.
 
2022-10-02 9:31:09 AM  
If someone stole my wife's '04 Elantra they'd probably die of boredom before they leave the driveway.
 
2022-10-02 10:03:17 AM  

qlenfg: Snotnose: ...I've heard Kia's burn oil.  As in, if you get an oil change every 3,000 miles you won't notice it.  But it adds wear to the engine.

I'd say no. We have a 2011 Soul with about 200k on it, and other than replacing the alternator, a couple brake jobs, sway-bar links, and a purge valve on the gas tank, it still runs good, with no oil consumption and no leaks.

Would have bought another, but the Hyundai models were more readily available when we started looking.


Seems to be running way better than my 2012 Mazda3 with 100k on it

/parasitic battery drains are fun!
 
2022-10-02 10:21:46 AM  
So you'd have paid for it when you bought the car (had it been installed, the car would have cost more) or you can pay for it now. Are people saying that options offered by a car manufacturer that weren't available at the time of purchase should be free?
 
2022-10-02 10:45:29 AM  

PerpetualPeristalsis: So you'd have paid for it when you bought the car (had it been installed, the car would have cost more) or you can pay for it now. Are people saying that options offered by a car manufacturer that weren't available at the time of purchase should be free?


This isn't an "option offered by a car manufacturer", it's a piece of shiat aftermarket system like what you would find at a mobile audio place.
 
2022-10-02 12:24:23 PM  
So they are converting all their cars to manual transmission?
 
2022-10-02 12:58:05 PM  

3.1415926: ModernPrimitive01: We've been using a steering wheel lock on my wife's hyundai since this all started. So far so good and it was $75 from the local parts place.

Thieves love "The Club".  It actually makes the car easier to steal.  A pro thief will carry a short piece of a hacksaw blade to cut through the plastic steering wheel in a couple seconds. They are then able to release The Club and use it to apply a huge amount of torque to the steering wheel and break the lock on the steering column (which most cars were already equipped with). The pro thieves actually sought out cars with The Club on them because they didn't want to carry a long pry bar that was too hard to conceal.


If a pro thief is targeting a Kia, they're not very pro. In the case of these Hyundais and Kias, people are trying to prevent kids from being able to steal the cars after watching a 2 minute TikTok video. The club will likely prevent those people from targeting your car as they'll just move on down the street to the Hyundai/Kia without a club on it. The lock on the steering column isn't much use if it gets disengaged anyway once the kids have done their magic and can get the car to start as if the key was inserted
 
2022-10-02 5:37:08 PM  
So apparently, if you did more than single-source this topic, the add-on kit includes glass-breakage sensors and does require a computer update. So not exactly a "piece of shiat aftermarket system ". Likely a way to add the security features of the deluxe models to the cheaper ones.

If any of you are old enough, you will remember the GM vehicles were much easier to steal than these cars -- and was probably why The Club was invented. Besides a steering wheel lock device, solutions included a hidden kill switch, and an armored shell for the steering column,

GM eventually put a resistive element in the key (VATS system) - which was one of 15 values, and had to be what the ECU expected, or no bueno. Not much more secure, but slowed down many amateur thieves.
 
2022-10-02 9:29:21 PM  

qlenfg: So apparently, if you did more than single-source this topic, the add-on kit includes glass-breakage sensors and does require a computer update. So not exactly a "piece of shiat aftermarket system ". Likely a way to add the security features of the deluxe models to the cheaper ones.

If any of you are old enough, you will remember the GM vehicles were much easier to steal than these cars -- and was probably why The Club was invented. Besides a steering wheel lock device, solutions included a hidden kill switch, and an armored shell for the steering column,

GM eventually put a resistive element in the key (VATS system) - which was one of 15 values, and had to be what the ECU expected, or no bueno. Not much more secure, but slowed down many amateur thieves.


Except the VATS system didn't have the keys verified by the ECM, they were verified by the VATS module which sent it's "everything's cool" signal to the ECM as a 50 hz square wave.  I've made many VATS bypass boards with a 555 and a few resistors.  Better than nothing, but not much when compared to PassKey 3.

I'd be interested in the link to the Hyundai add on kit info.
 
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