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(Politico)   Ian will ruin insurance companies   (politico.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, Insurance, flood insurance, Flood, Hurricane Ian, Storm surge, inland Florida, dominant source of flood coverage, percent coverage rate  
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1486 clicks; posted to Business » on 01 Oct 2022 at 5:02 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-10-01 11:52:13 AM  
My first thought is that insurance companies should stop issuing policies to coastal areas. But then I realized that the wealthy would continue to build there and just take the hits, and anyone but the wealthy would be shut out of the coasts. Which is already happening far too often all up and down US coasts, and it sucks.

I don't know what the answer is, except to declare the majority of the coasts National Seashores accessible to all (as a large chunk of Outer Cape Cod is) and that is a thing that will never happen.
 
2022-10-01 11:58:05 AM  
Insurance companies should manage their risks correctly?

Or are hurricanes a new thing?

/I also don't object to federal and state money being used to support people directly in these areas
//it works for federal flood insurance?
 
2022-10-01 12:14:59 PM  
Hurricane Ian is expected to financially ruin countless people in Florida whose homes were not covered by flood insurance when the storm inundated the region with powerful ocean surges and damaging downpours.

Who the screaming fark doesn't buy flood insurance  in FLORIDA?

I live at the top of a tall hill, 10 miles from any major river  and I STILL considered buying it for my house
 
2022-10-01 12:14:59 PM  
That's a shame.
 
2022-10-01 12:24:46 PM  

Magorn: Hurricane Ian is expected to financially ruin countless people in Florida whose homes were not covered by flood insurance when the storm inundated the region with powerful ocean surges and damaging downpours.

Who the screaming fark doesn't buy flood insurance  in FLORIDA?

I live at the top of a tall hill, 10 miles from any major river  and I STILL considered buying it for my house


I think most people that are outside of the 100 year flood zones don't buy flood insurance. And that isn't just Florida, it's the entire country.
 
2022-10-01 12:32:08 PM  

Gubbo: Magorn: Hurricane Ian is expected to financially ruin countless people in Florida whose homes were not covered by flood insurance when the storm inundated the region with powerful ocean surges and damaging downpours.

Who the screaming fark doesn't buy flood insurance  in FLORIDA?

I live at the top of a tall hill, 10 miles from any major river  and I STILL considered buying it for my house

I think most people that are outside of the 100 year flood zones don't buy flood insurance. And that isn't just Florida, it's the entire country.


I was wondering about that. Hasn't every square foot of Florida been hit by excess water from a hurricane in the last 100 years?
Put another way, if they can claim flood damage from water from a hurricane, they are in a flood area.  And what area hasn't had that in 100 years in Florida?
 
2022-10-01 12:36:20 PM  
No.
It will prove their worth. It's their f*cking purpose.

/dnrtfa
 
2022-10-01 12:40:58 PM  
That has pushed homeowners into Citizens Property Insurance Corp., the state-backed insurer of last resort.

Wair! Isn't that...socialism? Seriously, someone should ask all the Republicans in Tallahassee that in the next Legislative Session when money for CPIC comes up.
 
2022-10-01 12:49:54 PM  
HaHa subby thinks that Big Insurance will use their own profits to pay claims.
Who actually pays for the claims?
Mirror, Mirror on the wall.
 
2022-10-01 1:07:03 PM  
Hmmm, it's almost as if the concept of private insurance is a market failure when it's issued in a location that is prone to incredibly destructive natural disasters.
 
2022-10-01 1:18:59 PM  

buckwebb: Gubbo: Magorn: Hurricane Ian is expected to financially ruin countless people in Florida whose homes were not covered by flood insurance when the storm inundated the region with powerful ocean surges and damaging downpours.

Who the screaming fark doesn't buy flood insurance  in FLORIDA?

I live at the top of a tall hill, 10 miles from any major river  and I STILL considered buying it for my house

I think most people that are outside of the 100 year flood zones don't buy flood insurance. And that isn't just Florida, it's the entire country.

I was wondering about that. Hasn't every square foot of Florida been hit by excess water from a hurricane in the last 100 years?
Put another way, if they can claim flood damage from water from a hurricane, they are in a flood area.  And what area hasn't had that in 100 years in Florida?


Because, strangely enough, being flooded within the last 100 years isn't really a component of what goes into the 100 year flood zone.
 
2022-10-01 1:51:15 PM  
I'm too lazy to look for the evidence, but I've read that after natural disasters, insurance company profits go way up.

They're good at not paying, and the 'news' media coverage of all the damage is free marketing for them.
 
2022-10-01 1:51:35 PM  

Magorn: Hurricane Ian is expected to financially ruin countless people in Florida whose homes were not covered by flood insurance when the storm inundated the region with powerful ocean surges and damaging downpours.

Who the screaming fark doesn't buy flood insurance  in FLORIDA?

I live at the top of a tall hill, 10 miles from any major river  and I STILL considered buying it for my house


But in your situation, it would cost a pittance. Near the beach in Florida, it's probably a massive costs and cost-prohibitive for a lot of people. Which just means they can't afford to live near the beach, but they do so anyway.
 
2022-10-01 2:24:13 PM  

Magorn: Who the screaming fark doesn't buy flood insurance in FLORIDA?


A lot of people according to TFA (which is a pretty good article):

"But the bad news is that flood coverage varies widely across Florida - and among the counties that have faced the worst damage from Ian. In the nine counties that Biden declared a disaster, coverage rates for flood damage range from 1.3 percent in Hardee County and 3.2 percent in DeSoto County to 67 percent in Collier County, which is in the state's southwest corner and is one of Florida's richest counties."

"In Hardee County, only 100 households have federal flood insurance - out of 8,000 households in the county.
That's a 1.3 percent coverage rate. Hardee has one of the lowest income levels of any Florida county, and 44 percent of its residents are Hispanic."
 
2022-10-01 2:29:49 PM  
And you can see what's coming. As insurance companies go out of business or leave the state, the only one left will be the one backed by the State of Florida. They'll just pay or not pay claims based on whether they can afford it or not without raising insurance rates or taxes.

"Ian hit Florida as the state faces an insurance crisis. Policyholders there pay the nation's highest property-insurance rates, and huge losses have forced six small Florida-based insurers into insolvency this year while others have stopped writing new policies. That has pushed homeowners into Citizens Property Insurance Corp., the state-backed insurer of last resort. The number of its policyholders has doubled in the past two years and recently passed 1 million for the first time since 2014"

"Citizens has $13.6 billion in reserves and has projected paying 225,000 claims from Ian worth a total of $3.8 billion. "
 
2022-10-01 3:12:47 PM  
The same people in Florida who whined about student loan forgiveness are going to expect much more money bailing them out of this.
 
2022-10-01 4:13:17 PM  

WickerNipple: The same people in Florida who whined about student loan forgiveness are going to expect much more money bailing them out of this.


Yuuuup

I'm hoping, some day, a Democratic politician with some chutzpah shows up, and basically levels an ultimatum: "I will support federal disaster relief funds only to the states whose Senators support same funds. Florida's Senators did not approve, hence I will not approve relief funds for Florida."
 
2022-10-01 5:11:31 PM  
Not to worry, Florida will give them free money and apologize for the implication that they should have to do anything that might resemble fulfilling promises and obligations.
 
2022-10-01 5:12:01 PM  

buckwebb: Gubbo: Magorn: Hurricane Ian is expected to financially ruin countless people in Florida whose homes were not covered by flood insurance when the storm inundated the region with powerful ocean surges and damaging downpours.

Who the screaming fark doesn't buy flood insurance  in FLORIDA?

I live at the top of a tall hill, 10 miles from any major river  and I STILL considered buying it for my house

I think most people that are outside of the 100 year flood zones don't buy flood insurance. And that isn't just Florida, it's the entire country.

I was wondering about that. Hasn't every square foot of Florida been hit by excess water from a hurricane in the last 100 years?
Put another way, if they can claim flood damage from water from a hurricane, they are in a flood area.  And what area hasn't had that in 100 years in Florida?


Not only that but federal flood insurance has been really really cheap.
 
2022-10-01 5:18:47 PM  
Water goes to the lowest lying areas. Florida is relatively flat. If your street is 5 feet higher than the next street over, in the same neighborhood, that's all it would take for that street to be completely flooded while you're high and dry. If you want the benefit of a pretty view of the river, you have to pay the cost of insurance.
 
2022-10-01 5:22:20 PM  
After their wave of doing "Renewal denied, your roof is too old" to many homeowners in Florida, and they still go broke, I say fark them for a government bailout.  Weren't willing to socialize the community risk before, fark socializing their financial risk now.
 
2022-10-01 5:38:31 PM  
I lived in a 22-unit townhome complex 1 mile from the epicenter of the '94 Northridge earthquake.  Our building got red-tagged.  My unit was trashed, toilets off the flanges, walls cracked, but habitable.  The HVAC unit which was on the roof was tossed off, gone.  Chimney, gone.  Washer/dryer unit shook out of its little closet and then tumbled down the farking stairs.

To add cruel irony to the situation, 2 years prior my wife got elected to the 3-person board.  She worked in insurance and was demanding the building get earthquake coverage. We had lived through other earthquakes.  If you live in LA, own property, you are a fool not to have EQ insurance.  Anyway, the other 2 members voted her down.  "Too expensive."  (It worked out to only $35/unit per year).

So we had a trashed unit, and an "I told you so."   The cost to bring it back was $65k, money we didn't have at the time.  FEMA gave us a low interest, deferred payment loan.  We were able to fix our unit and in the end, easily pay off the loan.

Anyway, but that's socialism and ebil gubmint for ya.
 
2022-10-01 5:41:17 PM  
DeathSantis will defer/deflect/shift the blame for several years -- long enough to mount his next political campaign.
 
2022-10-01 5:42:35 PM  
Flood insurance went through the roof along the Jersey Shore after Sandy.  30K a year insurance for a $500K home wasn't unheard of.

Basically, if you filed a claim you had to raise your house by about 8' to make the new insurance even semi-affordable. Many people just sold the land, lots of new big houses on stilts around the worst hit areas where small old bungalows used to sit.

I'm sure the people in Mantaloking  and Bay Head were fine.
 
2022-10-01 5:50:54 PM  
Folks, please look up reinsurance and calm down. At least in terms if the insurance
 
2022-10-01 6:05:23 PM  

hoodiowithtudio: Folks, please look up reinsurance and calm down. At least in terms if the insurance


Reinsurance is a problem in Florida, too.
 
2022-10-01 6:09:32 PM  
frinkiac.comView Full Size
 
2022-10-01 6:47:46 PM  
Curiously absent from the article is if those 1.8m homes are in neighborhoods that are allowed to be part of the NFIP. So much poor planning with regards to development of communities will make them not eligible for NFIP.
 
2022-10-01 6:50:22 PM  

Magorn: Hurricane Ian is expected to financially ruin countless people in Florida whose homes were not covered by flood insurance when the storm inundated the region with powerful ocean surges and damaging downpours.

Who the screaming fark doesn't buy flood insurance  in FLORIDA?

I live at the top of a tall hill, 10 miles from any major river  and I STILL considered buying it for my house


Flood insurance is expensive.

If you are in a flood zone you get a subsidy.

If you don't, you pay full price.

The result = only people who get flooded have insurance
 
2022-10-01 6:51:34 PM  

cyberspacedout: [frinkiac.com image 640x480]


Life insurance is the worst kind of gambling. You're basically betting that you'll die waaaaay earlier than anyone expects.
 
2022-10-01 6:57:35 PM  

hoodiowithtudio: Folks, please look up reinsurance and calm down. At least in terms if the insurance


Given that the vast majority of companies have exposures of less than 5% to these companies, total current Florida exposure is still likely manageable for reinsurers," the report said. "Still, reinsurers are likely to remain selective in the risks they reinsure, placing further burdens on the Florida homeowners market."

TL:DR reinsurance is fine but going forward, they will be more selective.
 
2022-10-01 7:24:24 PM  

Rev.K: Hmmm, it's almost as if the concept of private insurance is a market failure when it's issued in a location that is prone to incredibly destructive natural disasters.


Name a place in the US that isn't prone to incredibly destructive natural disasters.
 
2022-10-01 7:26:28 PM  

scanman61: Rev.K: Hmmm, it's almost as if the concept of private insurance is a market failure when it's issued in a location that is prone to incredibly destructive natural disasters.

Name a place in the US that isn't prone to incredibly destructive natural disasters.


Monroeville, Indiana and Funk, Nebraska
 
2022-10-01 7:31:40 PM  

Klom Dark: scanman61: Rev.K: Hmmm, it's almost as if the concept of private insurance is a market failure when it's issued in a location that is prone to incredibly destructive natural disasters.

Name a place in the US that isn't prone to incredibly destructive natural disasters.

Monroeville, Indiana and Funk, Nebraska


Monroeville

Funk
 
2022-10-01 7:48:01 PM  

scanman61: Klom Dark: scanman61: Rev.K: Hmmm, it's almost as if the concept of private insurance is a market failure when it's issued in a location that is prone to incredibly destructive natural disasters.

Name a place in the US that isn't prone to incredibly destructive natural disasters.

Monroeville, Indiana and Funk, Nebraska

Monroeville

Funk


Don't move the goalposts...

F1 and F2 aren't even scary, definitely not "incredibly destructive natural disasters"
 
2022-10-01 7:48:04 PM  

nytmare: Water goes to the lowest lying areas. Florida is relatively flat. If your street is 5 feet higher than the next street over, in the same neighborhood, that's all it would take for that street to be completely flooded while you're high and dry. If you want the benefit of a pretty view of the river, you have to pay the cost of insurance.


The storm surge was 18 feet. What does that do to your math?
 
2022-10-01 7:51:28 PM  

Intone: nytmare: Water goes to the lowest lying areas. Florida is relatively flat. If your street is 5 feet higher than the next street over, in the same neighborhood, that's all it would take for that street to be completely flooded while you're high and dry. If you want the benefit of a pretty view of the river, you have to pay the cost of insurance.

The storm surge was 18 feet. What does that do to your math?


It adds 13,duh
 
2022-10-01 7:57:18 PM  
Why not put all the homeless support in flood zones. Solve two problems at once. Then, also, if you build there and get wiped out, homeless support is right there.
 
2022-10-01 7:59:37 PM  

Magorn: Hurricane Ian is expected to financially ruin countless people in Florida whose homes were not covered by flood insurance when the storm inundated the region with powerful ocean surges and damaging downpours.

Who the screaming fark doesn't buy flood insurance  in FLORIDA?

I live at the top of a tall hill, 10 miles from any major river  and I STILL considered buying it for my house


People who can't afford it and figure they'll roll the dice so their kids don't have to wear thrift store clothes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Personally I have wind and flood riders on both my Florida and NJ homes (two hellholes I know), but the wind coverage on our Florida house costs more than the total insurance in NJ plus the base coverage in FL.  It's very pricey.
 
2022-10-01 8:09:52 PM  

Intone: nytmare: Water goes to the lowest lying areas. Florida is relatively flat. If your street is 5 feet higher than the next street over, in the same neighborhood, that's all it would take for that street to be completely flooded while you're high and dry. If you want the benefit of a pretty view of the river, you have to pay the cost of insurance.

The storm surge was 18 feet. What does that do to your math?


One...the storm surge was 12 feet. And that pretty much covered zone A which all have insurance.

What he was talking about is inland and the crazy amount of water that got dumped into the area from rain.  That's where the majority of the handful of people that are really screwed are located.  Lots of people in low risk flood plains that ended up getting flooded out.
 
2022-10-01 8:13:04 PM  

namegoeshere: My first thought is that insurance companies should stop issuing policies to coastal areas. But then I realized that the wealthy would continue to build there and just take the hits, and anyone but the wealthy would be shut out of the coasts. Which is already happening far too often all up and down US coasts, and it sucks.

I don't know what the answer is, except to declare the majority of the coasts National Seashores accessible to all (as a large chunk of Outer Cape Cod is) and that is a thing that will never happen.


Come to California, where we all own the beach together.

No matter what the filthy rich do, they can't own the sand below the highest high tide line.

And public access to the water is part of our law.
 
2022-10-01 8:21:39 PM  

scanman61: Rev.K: Hmmm, it's almost as if the concept of private insurance is a market failure when it's issued in a location that is prone to incredibly destructive natural disasters.

Name a place in the US that isn't prone to incredibly destructive natural disasters.


Ohio... oh wait, does political disasters count?
 
2022-10-01 9:03:54 PM  
I hear FL has a $22B budget surplus. I don't see a problem.
 
2022-10-01 9:04:47 PM  

buckwebb: Gubbo: Magorn: Hurricane Ian is expected to financially ruin countless people in Florida whose homes were not covered by flood insurance when the storm inundated the region with powerful ocean surges and damaging downpours.

Who the screaming fark doesn't buy flood insurance  in FLORIDA?

I live at the top of a tall hill, 10 miles from any major river  and I STILL considered buying it for my house

I think most people that are outside of the 100 year flood zones don't buy flood insurance. And that isn't just Florida, it's the entire country.

I was wondering about that. Hasn't every square foot of Florida been hit by excess water from a hurricane in the last 100 years?
Put another way, if they can claim flood damage from water from a hurricane, they are in a flood area.  And what area hasn't had that in 100 years in Florida?


When I was a kid we had a rain that dropped a foot of rain in less than a day. While there was some impressive flooding, the vast majority of the town was just fine. When you get away from the low lying areas and into sandy regions it can take a ridiculous amount of rainfall in a short time to cause meaningful flooding.
 
2022-10-01 9:16:49 PM  

scanman61: Name a place in the US that isn't prone to incredibly destructive natural disasters.


I've never heard of a Cat4 hurricane hitting Kansas.


Let me put it another way.


If a private insurer has a lot of clients in an area that could be completely destroyed and the insurer does not have the money to cover the losses, should they all happen at once, there's a huge problem.

This is the case in Florida.

With large, powerful hurricanes, billions upon billions in damages happen and there's no way they can be covered, insurers just don't have the money.

So it would appear this system is a failure and perhaps there should be another way.
 
2022-10-01 9:25:56 PM  
Bonzo_1116: No matter what the filthy rich do, they can't own the sand below the highest high tide line.

And public access to the water is part of our law.


Isn't that what has made Peter Thiel personna non grata: his contention that he owns the coast and access to the coast?

But that's okay because he's buying the senators from Aridzona and Ohio.


:
 
2022-10-01 10:04:50 PM  
As a reminder, Florida is responsible for 79% of home insurance lawsuits in the country due to poorly written state laws (mostly fraudulent). This has led to an exit of all but one or two private insurers who raised rates to cover all the fraud.  No doubt the remaining private insurers only cover high end property.
So the federal government should only help if their $22 billion budget surplus isn't enough, and mandate they fix their insurance laws.
 
2022-10-01 10:21:46 PM  
I bought a house in Lake Suzy, FL. My homeowners policy is $3,200/year. I'm not in a floodplain, so I was told I didn't need flood insurance. It was $800/year. I purchased it for peace of mind.
My house is fine other than some roof damage, but I was glad I purchased all the insurance I did.
 
2022-10-01 10:34:07 PM  

scanman61: Klom Dark: scanman61: Rev.K: Hmmm, it's almost as if the concept of private insurance is a market failure when it's issued in a location that is prone to incredibly destructive natural disasters.

Name a place in the US that isn't prone to incredibly destructive natural disasters.

Monroeville, Indiana and Funk, Nebraska

Monroeville

Funk


Tornadoes are pretty small and focused and fairly random and only last for an hour at most. Your neighbor can get destroyed by while your house stands damage free.

99.9% of people living in Indiana will never be affected by a tornado in their lifetimes. 95% of people living in Florida will be affected by a hurricane multiple times in their life time.
 
2022-10-01 11:25:57 PM  
When you can't get insurance for something it's a gigantic red flag. You can get satellite launch insurance. Something that could explode into a million pieces because it's flying into space on a bomb is considered a safer bet than flood insurance in Florida.
 
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