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(Yahoo)   Concussion expert thinks Dolphins medical staff should go to jail   (news.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Florida, Robot, Concussion, Humanoid robot, Miami Dolphins, quarterback Tua Tagovailoa, Injury, Dr. Chris Nowinski, Daily Mail  
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1035 clicks; posted to Sports » on 01 Oct 2022 at 8:15 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-10-01 4:45:41 AM  
Doesn't the NFL mandate independent neurological experts be used as the final authority on evaluating players after these injuries? Regardless, Tua should never have been allowed to play in this game.
 
2022-10-01 7:52:14 AM  
The NFL denied CTE forever. Not much has really changed I guess.
 
2022-10-01 8:23:43 AM  

NotCodger: Doesn't the NFL mandate independent neurological experts be used as the final authority on evaluating players after these injuries? Regardless, Tua should never have been allowed to play in this game.


They're not "independent" per se. They don't represent either team but they still work for the nfl
 
2022-10-01 8:28:36 AM  

NotCodger: Doesn't the NFL mandate independent neurological experts be used as the final authority on evaluating players after these injuries? Regardless, Tua should never have been allowed to play in this game.


Yes.
 
2022-10-01 8:28:43 AM  
He was discharged from a hospital on Thursday night and returned to the team in South Florida wearing a neck brace

Hasn't Tua suffered enough?
 
2022-10-01 8:42:38 AM  
"I don't think an injury from last week made him fall a certain way this week," McDaniel said.

No, you disingenuous farking assclown, the issue was risking his farking LIFE putting him back in the first game, and letting him play the second. For that matter, a severe concussion without time to recover could absolutely increase the risk of getting injured, if he stumbles or becomes disoriented during a play.
 
2022-10-01 8:51:54 AM  
Would you buy a used quarterback from this medical team?
 
2022-10-01 8:54:28 AM  

LedLawless: "I don't think an injury from last week made him fall a certain way this week," McDaniel said.

No, you disingenuous farking assclown, the issue was risking his farking LIFE putting him back in the first game, and letting him play the second. For that matter, a severe concussion without time to recover could absolutely increase the risk of getting injured, if he stumbles or becomes disoriented during a play.


I believe MCDaniel referred to the Bills game hit and Bengals game hit as "unrelated events" like three times in his press conference.
 
2022-10-01 8:58:54 AM  

too_amuzed: LedLawless: "I don't think an injury from last week made him fall a certain way this week," McDaniel said.

No, you disingenuous farking assclown, the issue was risking his farking LIFE putting him back in the first game, and letting him play the second. For that matter, a severe concussion without time to recover could absolutely increase the risk of getting injured, if he stumbles or becomes disoriented during a play.

I believe MCDaniel referred to the Bills game hit and Bengals game hit as "unrelated events" like three times in his press conference.


He's figuring that if he says it enough times, Tua won't sue if this ends his career.
 
2022-10-01 9:00:55 AM  

LedLawless: "I don't think an injury from last week made him fall a certain way this week," McDaniel said.

No, you disingenuous farking assclown, the issue was risking his farking LIFE putting him back in the first game, and letting him play the second. For that matter, a severe concussion without time to recover could absolutely increase the risk of getting injured, if he stumbles or becomes disoriented during a play.


Nowinski had a great interview with LeBetard yesterday morning and detailed exactly what happens when you have two concussions anywhere close to each other:

Tua's Concussion: "Everyone Should Be Sued & Fired " | Chris Nowinski + Le Batard on Mishandling Tua
Youtube Fwse0swDY4A
 
2022-10-01 9:02:25 AM  
Can we talk about how the rotational force from the sack is the thing that caused him to go unconscious, and the fencing response started before he hit the ground?

Look at the slow mo replay, his entire body goes stiff once the rotation starts. His brain was compressed during the rotation, and the slam caused it to bounce around inside his skull.
 
2022-10-01 9:03:49 AM  
This is also an organization that broke the rules when trying to recruit Tom Brady and Sean Payton. What makes anyone think they're trustworthy?
 
2022-10-01 9:12:25 AM  

NotCodger: Doesn't the NFL mandate independent neurological experts be used as the final authority on evaluating players after these injuries? Regardless, Tua should never have been allowed to play in this game.


I looked it up on the NFL's website, the term is "Unaffiliated Neurotrauma Consultant."

So, not independent, per se, but still and NFL employee, unaffiliated with either club?

My question is, what level of expertise is required? It doesn't say MD/neurologist, so are they MDs? Physician assistants? Nurse practitioners? Farkers that have seen a lot of concussions in their time and can tell by the pixels?

Dolphins are understandably trying to reiterate they "followed protocols," as I imagine any team would in CYA/pre-litigation mode.

Maybe the light needs to be shined on those "protocols," to prevent something like that from happening again, but can everyone involved (team, league, these mysterious UNCs) focus on the future instead of avoiding blame?
 
2022-10-01 9:17:08 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-10-01 9:24:03 AM  
If player security is the concern. If people truly are concerned with protocols and player safety. Why is there radio silence on Tee Higgins?


https://twitter.com/Sports_24x7_/status/1569023814058622976?s=20&t=uzLoKtk9bYGasKnJroFxEQ

September 11th: Week 1. Tee Higgins takes a hard hit and is knocked out with a concussion.
September 16th: Tee Higgins clears concussion protocol and plays Week 2. He plays 89% of the offensive snaps, and has his most targets on the year.

September 25th: The Bengals play the New York Jets. Tee Higgins gets hiat on one of the most vicious helmet to helmet hits I've ever seen. He's unconscious on the field. He lays on the ground lifeless. Never enters concussion protocol and returns to the game.

https://twitter.com/TFG_Football/status/1574427984383148032?s=20&t=peKFtN-775RkjG6YnlyC8Q

September 29th: Tee Higgins plays the entire game against the Miami Dolphins.

This timeline shows that for Tee Higgins the timeline is actually significantly worse. But if player safety is the concern, where is the outrage? Where is the call to have Zac Taylor fired? Where is the attempted murder charges? Where is the call for draft picks? No one outside of this team actually cares about Tua.
 
2022-10-01 9:25:34 AM  

Galileo's Daughter: If player security is the concern. If people truly are concerned with protocols and player safety. Why is there radio silence on Tee Higgins?


https://twitter.com/Sports_24x7_/status/1569023814058622976?s=20&t=uzLoKtk9bYGasKnJroFxEQ

September 11th: Week 1. Tee Higgins takes a hard hit and is knocked out with a concussion.
September 16th: Tee Higgins clears concussion protocol and plays Week 2. He plays 89% of the offensive snaps, and has his most targets on the year.

September 25th: The Bengals play the New York Jets. Tee Higgins gets hiat on one of the most vicious helmet to helmet hits I've ever seen. He's unconscious on the field. He lays on the ground lifeless. Never enters concussion protocol and returns to the game.

https://twitter.com/TFG_Football/status/1574427984383148032?s=20&t=peKFtN-775RkjG6YnlyC8Q

September 29th: Tee Higgins plays the entire game against the Miami Dolphins.

This timeline shows that for Tee Higgins the timeline is actually significantly worse. But if player safety is the concern, where is the outrage? Where is the call to have Zac Taylor fired? Where is the attempted murder charges? Where is the call for draft picks? No one outside of this team actually cares about Tua.


This post takes whataboutism to an entirely new level for the sports tab.

Congratulations
 
2022-10-01 9:25:34 AM  
As to Harbaugh's comments about being "astonished" and "shocked" that Tua was playing. That he's thankful for his team's doctors.

https://ravenswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/02/lamar-jackson-enters-concussion-protocol-vs-falcons/
Lamar Jackson enters concussion protocol in the 3rd quarter of their game against the Falcons, RG3 comes in.

Lamar Jackson re-enters the game 16 plays later.

Lamar Jackson would go on to start next week against the Chiefs, 7 days later.

Anybody here mad at the Ravens staff, coaches, etc?
 
2022-10-01 9:27:17 AM  

callmeox: This post takes whataboutism to an entirely new level for the sports tab.

Congratulations


No, it takes the issue of player safety seriously.  If you're going to be mad at the Dolphins staff, explain why you're not mad at the Bengals staff.

If NFL protocols were followed by the Dolphins, then it's probably time to update them.  Then again, maybe I should stop looking for logic in phony internet outrage.
 
2022-10-01 9:34:31 AM  
The reason is Tua was hurt in the game. But if we're talking about gross negligence related to Miami for even playing Tua. Then that same gross negligence, if not even worse, is applied to the Bengals for playing Higgins, injury or not.

If they continue the witch hunt, I want the league and NFLPA to review  review every player on every play for wobbly legs, shaking their head, reaching up to their helmet, any examination on the sideline, any signs of head trauma (since the concussion protocol was instituted/updated). If any of those players returned to the game, the team is punished.

The entire point is that, no one making noise about this actually cares about Tua. This is their opportunity to have a victory lap on their division rivals, the NFL, and Goodell. The very same media talking heads that have created an extremely toxic environment where Tua has to prove himself not just every week but every single god damn play, that could potentially push him to misreport symptoms to stay in the game are the same people feigning caring about him so they can dunk on Miami or the league for followers, clicks, or views.
 
2022-10-01 9:38:40 AM  
I mean, he's not wrong.
 
2022-10-01 9:49:28 AM  
I'd love to hear this reasoning for why he thinks he's more qualified to talk on this than other concussion specialists and why his opinion is more important than other doctors in the same field.  Not even trying to be snarky, genuinely curious.  Also adding how he can say this without seeing the results of his tests and his charts?

I agree he's an expert, but has he examined Tua personally?  If he aware of exactly what the NFL concussion protocol is, and whether or not it was followed?
 
2022-10-01 9:52:33 AM  
absolute blood-sport.
when Jr Seau died, one of my old hs buddies posted on FB:
bro, your brutal hits were the best part of my weekends!

gifimage.netView Full Size
 
2022-10-01 9:54:00 AM  
Stephen Ross should already be in jail anyway.
 
2022-10-01 10:01:03 AM  

strapp3r: absolute blood-sport.
when Jr Seau died, one of my old hs buddies posted on FB:
bro, your brutal hits were the best part of my weekends!

[gifimage.net image 500x208]


Exactly this. Football is nothing more than watching these guys scramble their brains and bodies for entertainment and that being the big, vicious hiats.

A high(er) profile players case get noticed and the takeaway for some is the expert doesn't care because what about these other cases as if this expert has to have perfect knowledge of every player in the league. Thus giving cover for people to dismiss the concerns because the person is just seeking their 15 minutes of fame.
 
2022-10-01 10:12:24 AM  
I smell a new NFL scandal coming.
 
2022-10-01 10:37:58 AM  
Dr. Myron Rolle played two years in the NFL, and is now a neurosurgeon resident with Harvard.   He was on one of the shows yesterday talking about Tua's visible symptoms.  He basically said "Tua's brain is busted.   This isn't a diagnosis as I haven't examined him but I don't think you need to be a neurosurgeon to see it."

I feel bad for that kid.  He should go talk to Todd Marinovich.
 
2022-10-01 10:45:36 AM  

Galileo's Daughter: I'd love to hear this reasoning for why he thinks he's more qualified to talk on this than other concussion specialists and why his opinion is more important than other doctors in the same field.  Not even trying to be snarky, genuinely curious.  Also adding how he can say this without seeing the results of his tests and his charts?

I agree he's an expert, but has he examined Tua personally?  If he aware of exactly what the NFL concussion protocol is, and whether or not it was followed?


Did you read the article because it tells you if you do. He is a neurologist who specializes in CTE.

Galileo's Daughter: the same people feigning caring about him so they can dunk on Miami or the league for followers, clicks, or views.


Jesus christ, I can even believe you suggested this. Maybe, just maybe, we do actually care and it is because the injury was so incredibly visible to millions of people. Twice. Going through every single other team that also abused the rules to get players back - doesn't help your case, it just makes them look just as bad. 

Also, not every injury is the same. You really need to calm down, you've taken the rhetoric and anger to a whole new level this week.
 
2022-10-01 10:46:21 AM  
Tua was released by a independent doctor in Cincinnati who may not give two shiats about football.  Suddenly we are all brain trauma experts. Playing this up by the media guarantees them more clicks, views and revenue.
 
2022-10-01 10:51:28 AM  
Man, the Doplhins PR staff has been going whole hog on the whatabout.

All over the internet, instead of concern for Tua, it's become whatabout other shiat situation on player safety.

The NFL is terrible, by design, at handling concussions.  The Dolphins, in order to win now pushed too hard.  Other teams have done this as well.  Dolphins fans - THAT DOES NOT EXCUSE THE DOLPHINS HERE.
 
2022-10-01 11:00:15 AM  

Galileo's Daughter: I'd love to hear this reasoning for why he thinks he's more qualified to talk on this than other concussion specialists and why his opinion is more important than other doctors in the same field.


I'm going with his Harvard degree or his Ph.D in neuroscience from Boston College.
 
2022-10-01 11:03:25 AM  

question_dj: Can we talk about how the rotational force from the sack is the thing that caused him to go unconscious, and the fencing response started before he hit the ground?

Look at the slow mo replay, his entire body goes stiff once the rotation starts. His brain was compressed during the rotation, and the slam caused it to bounce around inside his skull.


I thought the same thing watching it live, his whole head/neck snaps before he hits the ground
 
2022-10-01 11:06:52 AM  

Ratman023: question_dj: Can we talk about how the rotational force from the sack is the thing that caused him to go unconscious, and the fencing response started before he hit the ground?

Look at the slow mo replay, his entire body goes stiff once the rotation starts. His brain was compressed during the rotation, and the slam caused it to bounce around inside his skull.

I thought the same thing watching it live, his whole head/neck snaps before he hits the ground


Yeah, whiplash is a high G load on your brain and can cause you to blackout/pass out. The hit just makes everything rattle around afterwards.
 
2022-10-01 11:10:22 AM  

Galileo's Daughter: I'd love to hear this reasoning for why he thinks he's more qualified to talk on this than other concussion specialists and why his opinion is more important than other doctors in the same field.


Because he's an expert and a disinterested third party not a doctor paid by the team.
 
2022-10-01 11:15:32 AM  

Kyle Butler: Climate change isn't real. Experts studied the evidence at the behest of ExxonMobil and BP and they came to the conclusion that what we're seeing is natural and will return to the norm within the next two decades.


Sure, Jan.
 
2022-10-01 11:20:47 AM  

too_amuzed: LedLawless: "I don't think an injury from last week made him fall a certain way this week," McDaniel said.

No, you disingenuous farking assclown, the issue was risking his farking LIFE putting him back in the first game, and letting him play the second. For that matter, a severe concussion without time to recover could absolutely increase the risk of getting injured, if he stumbles or becomes disoriented during a play.

I believe MCDaniel referred to the Bills game hit and Bengals game hit as "unrelated events" like three times in his press conference.


WTF would it matter if the injuries were related?? The "related" is that he had a concussion, then got a second, "unrelated" concussion less than one week later. The relation is the brain damage, you gaslighting idiot. (NFL idiot, not you.)
 
2022-10-01 11:24:25 AM  
I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night and here are my impressions.  Expressed in lay terms.  Tua got his brains scrambled real good.  That hand twitching he did isn't good.  At all.  I hope he returns to his normal baseline but wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't.  Also, I hope he has huge guaranteed money in his contract.
 
2022-10-01 11:27:47 AM  

Rent Party: Galileo's Daughter: I'd love to hear this reasoning for why he thinks he's more qualified to talk on this than other concussion specialists and why his opinion is more important than other doctors in the same field.

I'm going with his Harvard degree or his Ph.D in neuroscience from Boston College.


He also literally wrote a book about head injuries and was instrumental in getting Chris Benoit's brain examined for CTE postmortem. There aren't many people who are more qualified to speak about it than him.
 
2022-10-01 11:37:05 AM  
I wonder if he'll think it was worth it when he's suffering CTE at the premature end of his life?
 
2022-10-01 11:49:57 AM  

phimuskapsi: Ratman023: question_dj: Can we talk about how the rotational force from the sack is the thing that caused him to go unconscious, and the fencing response started before he hit the ground?

Look at the slow mo replay, his entire body goes stiff once the rotation starts. His brain was compressed during the rotation, and the slam caused it to bounce around inside his skull.

I thought the same thing watching it live, his whole head/neck snaps before he hits the ground

Yeah, whiplash is a high G load on your brain and can cause you to blackout/pass out. The hit just makes everything rattle around afterwards.


It seems like motorsports takes head injuries more seriously than football. Racing drivers wear g-force sensors in their ears to monitor impact forces, they have hans devices that greatly limits whiplash, and the helmets are constantly going through testing and validation to improve design to reduce injury.

It seems like football is like, "lol, brain go smash."
 
2022-10-01 11:55:53 AM  

Kyle Butler: Tua was released by a independent doctor in Cincinnati who may not give two shiats about football.  Suddenly we are all brain trauma experts. Playing this up by the media guarantees them more clicks, views and revenue.


What can emergency doctors do for a concussion where the patient is conscious and ambulatory?

Hint: nothing.

They do exams to gauge the level of trauma intervention required. Likely a CT scan to check for bleeding. But usually If the patient is conscious and ambulatory, there isn't much more they can do beside that. Head injuries are a long-term injury. Just because a doctor was like, "yup, he can walk and talk, comprehend reality, and doesn't need emergency surgery," doesn't mean he doesn't have long term damage.

It blows my mind how little understanding of medicine people have, but how deeply held their beliefs on it are. They must go to the ER for chronic conditions and get upset that the ER doc doesnt heal them.
 
2022-10-01 11:57:56 AM  

question_dj: phimuskapsi: Ratman023: question_dj: Can we talk about how the rotational force from the sack is the thing that caused him to go unconscious, and the fencing response started before he hit the ground?

Look at the slow mo replay, his entire body goes stiff once the rotation starts. His brain was compressed during the rotation, and the slam caused it to bounce around inside his skull.

I thought the same thing watching it live, his whole head/neck snaps before he hits the ground

Yeah, whiplash is a high G load on your brain and can cause you to blackout/pass out. The hit just makes everything rattle around afterwards.

It seems like motorsports takes head injuries more seriously than football. Racing drivers wear g-force sensors in their ears to monitor impact forces, they have hans devices that greatly limits whiplash, and the helmets are constantly going through testing and validation to improve design to reduce injury.


encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.comView Full Size


NASCAR didn't get that way on their own, though.  It took this guy to motivate them.
 
2022-10-01 12:04:47 PM  

question_dj: It seems like motorsports takes head injuries more seriously than football.


To be fair a lot more people die in motorsport, especially bikes, so I'm not sure safety is something you should trumpet ;)
 
2022-10-01 12:18:10 PM  
Peter von Nostrand: I would to take this opportunity to come out of the closet and forever profess my love for Bruce.  There I said it.


Pretty bold there "Pete"

// look how easy it is to put words in peoples mouth!
 
2022-10-01 12:21:00 PM  
seems appropriate for the thread
How a Loophole Cleared Tua Tagovailoa of a Concussion - Doctor Explains
Youtube 4VV0Qb5rK8I
 
2022-10-01 12:24:46 PM  

phimuskapsi: Ratman023: question_dj: Can we talk about how the rotational force from the sack is the thing that caused him to go unconscious, and the fencing response started before he hit the ground?

Look at the slow mo replay, his entire body goes stiff once the rotation starts. His brain was compressed during the rotation, and the slam caused it to bounce around inside his skull.

I thought the same thing watching it live, his whole head/neck snaps before he hits the ground

Yeah, whiplash is a high G load on your brain and can cause you to blackout/pass out. The hit just makes everything rattle around afterwards.


I can't believe how fast Tua was slammed to the ground. When I watched the clip I thought it was in fast forward.
 
2022-10-01 12:28:56 PM  

Kyle Butler: Peter von Nostrand: I would to take this opportunity to come out of the closet and forever profess my love for Bruce.  There I said it.


Pretty bold there "Pete"

// look how easy it is to put words in peoples mouth!


Your reply is a veiled gay joke... so edgy. Now tell me that joke is part of the warrior culture and I wouldn't understand.

Too bad you don't understand my comment, if so, you'd realize how much it makes your reply even dumber. I'm making a comparison to show that situation isn't what you think. NFL paid for experts are reliable only to give the league and team cover while pretending to care.
 
2022-10-01 1:02:09 PM  

LedLawless: too_amuzed: LedLawless: "I don't think an injury from last week made him fall a certain way this week," McDaniel said.

No, you disingenuous farking assclown, the issue was risking his farking LIFE putting him back in the first game, and letting him play the second. For that matter, a severe concussion without time to recover could absolutely increase the risk of getting injured, if he stumbles or becomes disoriented during a play.

I believe MCDaniel referred to the Bills game hit and Bengals game hit as "unrelated events" like three times in his press conference.

He's figuring that if he says it enough times, Tua won't sue if this ends his career.


...considering the NFL's handling of head injuries dating all the way back to the beginning (including the big 1987 strike where the NFL pretty much condemned former player Doug Kotar to death by saying his injuries weren't caused by them, so they had no responsibility for his care), this would probably be a fight Tua wins...as long as he's not forced into arbitration.
 
2022-10-01 1:03:43 PM  

Incorrigible Astronaut: Rent Party: Galileo's Daughter: I'd love to hear this reasoning for why he thinks he's more qualified to talk on this than other concussion specialists and why his opinion is more important than other doctors in the same field.

I'm going with his Harvard degree or his Ph.D in neuroscience from Boston College.

He also literally wrote a book about head injuries and was instrumental in getting Chris Benoit's brain examined for CTE postmortem. There aren't many people who are more qualified to speak about it than him.


He wrestled both Benoit and Edge, who would retire because of his head and neck injuries. (I think he retired from wrestling before Danielson entered...)
 
2022-10-01 1:16:59 PM  

Rent Party: Dr. Myron Rolle played two years in the NFL, and is now a neurosurgeon resident with Harvard.   He was on one of the shows yesterday talking about Tua's visible symptoms.  He basically said "Tua's brain is busted.   This isn't a diagnosis as I haven't examined him but I don't think you need to be a neurosurgeon to see it."

I feel bad for that kid.  He should go talk to Todd Marinovich.


Was it this?

Dr. Myron Rolle shares the changes he wants to see happen with NFL's concussion protocol
Youtube bo0-KzFVA8M
 
2022-10-01 1:37:46 PM  

phimuskapsi: Galileo's Daughter: I'd love to hear this reasoning for why he thinks he's more qualified to talk on this than other concussion specialists and why his opinion is more important than other doctors in the same field.  Not even trying to be snarky, genuinely curious.  Also adding how he can say this without seeing the results of his tests and his charts?

I agree he's an expert, but has he examined Tua personally?  If he aware of exactly what the NFL concussion protocol is, and whether or not it was followed?

Did you read the article because it tells you if you do. He is a neurologist who specializes in CTE.

Galileo's Daughter: the same people feigning caring about him so they can dunk on Miami or the league for followers, clicks, or views.

Jesus christ, I can even believe you suggested this. Maybe, just maybe, we do actually care and it is because the injury was so incredibly visible to millions of people. Twice. Going through every single other team that also abused the rules to get players back - doesn't help your case, it just makes them look just as bad. 

Also, not every injury is the same. You really need to calm down, you've taken the rhetoric and anger to a whole new level this week.


I know he's a neurologist who specializes in CTE. I also know that he has never examined tua and that will affect his diagnosis. you cannot correctly diagnose a patient you've never examined,1st your medical students know this.
 
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