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(CNN)   Per subby's suggestions, NASA partners with SpaceX to study future Hubble service mission   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Cool, Space Shuttle, Space exploration, Hubble Space Telescope, European Space Agency, NASA, International Space Station, Space Act Agreement, space shuttle program  
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316 clicks; posted to STEM » on 30 Sep 2022 at 1:56 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



34 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-09-30 1:59:55 PM  
What kind of pear, subby?
 
2022-09-30 2:02:47 PM  
"The first flight in the program, called Polaris Dawn, is expected to last up to five days. It will include a crew of Isaacman and three other people, who will ride aboard a SpaceX Crew Dragon capsule to the Van Allen radiation belt"

The Fantastic Four approve.
 
2022-09-30 2:03:58 PM  
Good.  Repairs and replacement parts for refurbishment are going to be far cheaper than complete replacement.
 
2022-09-30 2:07:41 PM  
Maybe SpaceX should shop for a Canadarm to put on a Starship.
 
2022-09-30 2:16:02 PM  
Hubble currently weighs about 27,000 pounds 44 ft long and 14 ft dia.

After Starship has proved itself, how about bringing it back down, full service then return to orbit?
 
2022-09-30 2:45:23 PM  
I think a Crew Dragon could do it. There isn't any spacesuit available for EVA right now apart from the ones used for ISS. It may not need to be manned: I can imagine a sort of hybrid mission with a cargo Dragon delivering and controlling a free-flying robot to the Hubble with robot arms teleoperated locally or on the ground.  If the job is just to open panels, slide out a rack module and replace it, and put the panels back, in theory teleoperation could do that. A human is probably still better at doing it, because Hubble wasn't built to make that job easy, but Crew Dragon isn't built for EVA. It's unnecessarily risky to use the entire cabin as the airlock and put everyone in pressure suits for the entire operation.

 I think it might be a smarter but slower play, to send up a tug to drop Hubble to a lower orbit first, and then you could send up a Cargo Dragon and a Crew Dragon, dock them to each other, and use the Crew Dragon as the formal stand-alone airlock and suit stowage/ replacement part stowage. This would add  a lot of safety features to the mission.
 
2022-09-30 2:54:04 PM  
 
2022-09-30 2:57:08 PM  

fat boy: Hubble currently weighs about 27,000 pounds 44 ft long and 14 ft dia.

After Starship has proved itself, how about bringing it back down, full service then return to orbit?


The solar arrays are probably not designed for gravity after deployment, but those could be replaced on the ground. But did any other components get deployed into a structure which requires microgravity, and which would be destroyed by a return to Earth?
 
2022-09-30 3:09:59 PM  
I meant to say, I think it might be a smarter but slower play, to send up a tug to drop Hubble to a lower orbit first, and then you could send up a Cargo Dragon and a Crew Dragon, dock them to each other, and use the Cargo Dragon as the formal stand-alone airlock and suit stowage/ replacement part stowage. You'd need a docking adapter for the nose of the Cargo Dragon, though.
 
2022-09-30 3:10:04 PM  
On one hand, "Yay! That would be so cool!"

On the other hand, "Great. Something else for Elon to be smug about!"
 
2022-09-30 3:11:02 PM  

WelldeadLink: fat boy: Hubble currently weighs about 27,000 pounds 44 ft long and 14 ft dia.

After Starship has proved itself, how about bringing it back down, full service then return to orbit?

The solar arrays are probably not designed for gravity after deployment, but those could be replaced on the ground. But did any other components get deployed into a structure which requires microgravity, and which would be destroyed by a return to Earth?


Panels have been replaced once and wiki says it does have a docking port on it .
If SpaceX wants in on this, I think it would be better then deorbiting it.
Even if it never went back up we could probably learn a lot from the experience along with studying long term effects on the components.
 
2022-09-30 3:15:18 PM  

Any Pie Left: I can imagine a sort of hybrid mission with a cargo Dragon delivering and controlling a free-flying robot to the Hubble with robot arms teleoperated locally or on the ground.  If the job is just to open panels, slide out a rack module and replace it, and put the panels back, in theory teleoperation could do that.


The problem with this plan is that things get stuck a lot up there. One stuck bolt and you're screwed on a robotic mission.

(AP) -- Spacewalkers' specially designed tools couldn't dislodge a balky bolt interfering with repairs Sunday at the Hubble Space Telescope, so they took an approach more familiar to people puttering around down on Earth: use brute force.

And it worked.

Atlantis astronaut Michael Massimino couldn't remove one bolt attaching a hand rail to the outside of a scientific instrument he needed to fix. The rail had to be removed or at least bent out of the way. And that was only the beginning of a hard-luck day.

When several tries with different expensive tools couldn't remove the stripped-out bolt, Mission Control in Houston told Massimino to go for the less precise yank.
 
2022-09-30 3:59:49 PM  

fat boy: WelldeadLink: fat boy: Hubble currently weighs about 27,000 pounds 44 ft long and 14 ft dia.

After Starship has proved itself, how about bringing it back down, full service then return to orbit?

The solar arrays are probably not designed for gravity after deployment, but those could be replaced on the ground. But did any other components get deployed into a structure which requires microgravity, and which would be destroyed by a return to Earth?

Panels have been replaced once and wiki says it does have a docking port on it .
If SpaceX wants in on this, I think it would be better then deorbiting it.
Even if it never went back up we could probably learn a lot from the experience along with studying long term effects on the components.


My understanding is that Hubble is designed to be captured by the robotic arm on the old STS.  It would be pretty trivial to replicate that on the end of a grappler to allow a SpaceX craft to mate with Hubble.
 
2022-09-30 4:10:10 PM  

wage0048: f  It would be pretty trivial to replicate that on the end of a grappler to allow a SpaceX craft to mate with Hubble.


More like SpaceXXX  amiright!
 
2022-09-30 4:10:33 PM  

avian: Northrop Grumman has a specific product to do just that, completely unmanned. It has already been proven.
https://news.northropgrumman.com/news/releases/northrop-grumman-and-intelsat-make-history-with-docking-of-second-mission-extension-vehicle-to-extend-life-of-satellite


Dude, this is a thread about SpaceX. In the reality of this thread, SpaceX invented space travel and are responsible for all "firsts." Don't go injecting your facts about other private companies beating SpaceX to market.
 
2022-09-30 4:50:58 PM  
So basically Musk is just going to pocket money and not deliver.
 
2022-09-30 4:55:52 PM  

Any Pie Left: Crew Dragon isn't built for EVA. It's unnecessarily risky to use the entire cabin as the airlock and put everyone in pressure suits for the entire operation


Subby here. It doesn't have to be.

SpaceX or NASA can design and build something similar to the old Apollo Service Module that has extra supplies, life support, etc. and includes a compartment for an airlock and one or more robot arms for grappling the Hubble and then helping to service it. SpaceX can use a big booster to put the service module in orbit and then a smaller booster to launch a Crew Dragon for in-orbit rendezvous, move to service Hubble, and then the Crew Dragon can return the crew to Earth.
 
2022-09-30 4:57:21 PM  

Any Pie Left: I can imagine a sort of hybrid mission with a cargo Dragon delivering and controlling a free-flying robot to the Hubble with robot arms teleoperated locally or on the ground.


Nope, all it will take is one stuck bolt and the robots are useless. We need humans to do this job.
 
2022-09-30 5:14:06 PM  

thornhill: avian: Northrop Grumman has a specific product to do just that, completely unmanned. It has already been proven.
https://news.northropgrumman.com/news/releases/northrop-grumman-and-intelsat-make-history-with-docking-of-second-mission-extension-vehicle-to-extend-life-of-satellite

Dude, this is a thread about SpaceX. In the reality of this thread, SpaceX invented space travel and are responsible for all "firsts." Don't go injecting your facts about other private companies beating SpaceX to market.


Exactly my point. People should quit being hipster SpaceX douches.
 
2022-09-30 5:28:47 PM  

avian: thornhill: avian: Northrop Grumman has a specific product to do just that, completely unmanned. It has already been proven.
https://news.northropgrumman.com/news/releases/northrop-grumman-and-intelsat-make-history-with-docking-of-second-mission-extension-vehicle-to-extend-life-of-satellite

Dude, this is a thread about SpaceX. In the reality of this thread, SpaceX invented space travel and are responsible for all "firsts." Don't go injecting your facts about other private companies beating SpaceX to market.

Exactly my point. People should quit being hipster SpaceX douches.


It's so refreshing to learn that SpaceX has never launched a rocket.
 
2022-09-30 6:31:19 PM  

fat boy: WelldeadLink: fat boy: Hubble currently weighs about 27,000 pounds 44 ft long and 14 ft dia.

After Starship has proved itself, how about bringing it back down, full service then return to orbit?

The solar arrays are probably not designed for gravity after deployment, but those could be replaced on the ground. But did any other components get deployed into a structure which requires microgravity, and which would be destroyed by a return to Earth?

Panels have been replaced once and wiki says it does have a docking port on it .
If SpaceX wants in on this, I think it would be better then deorbiting it.
Even if it never went back up we could probably learn a lot from the experience along with studying long term effects on the components.


That reminds me - have we ever seen any results released regarding study of the LDEF (Long Duration Exposure Facility) after it was finally retrieved?

LDEF was a satellite deployed by the Space Shuttle.  About the size of a school bus, it was intended to expose a lot of different materials, components, systems, and what have you to a space environment (microgravity, vacuum, heat/cold, radiation, micrometeorites, etc.) for nine months, after which the Shuttle would retrieve it, and we'd see how everything held up.

It was deployed by Challenger in April 1984, and ended up being left in orbit until January 1990 because of, let's call it "interruptions to service" in the Shuttle program around that time.

So, it became the 'Loooooooooooooong Duration Exposure Facility'.

Long Duration Exposure Facility (LDEF) (nasa.gov)

Long Duration Exposure Facility - Wikipedia
 
2022-09-30 7:46:59 PM  

Any Pie Left: I think a Crew Dragon could do it. There isn't any spacesuit available for EVA right now apart from the ones used for ISS. It may not need to be manned: I can imagine a sort of hybrid mission with a cargo Dragon delivering and controlling a free-flying robot to the Hubble with robot arms teleoperated locally or on the ground.  If the job is just to open panels, slide out a rack module and replace it, and put the panels back, in theory teleoperation could do that. A human is probably still better at doing it, because Hubble wasn't built to make that job easy, but Crew Dragon isn't built for EVA. It's unnecessarily risky to use the entire cabin as the airlock and put everyone in pressure suits for the entire operation.

 I think it might be a smarter but slower play, to send up a tug to drop Hubble to a lower orbit first, and then you could send up a Cargo Dragon and a Crew Dragon, dock them to each other, and use the Crew Dragon as the formal stand-alone airlock and suit stowage/ replacement part stowage. This would add  a lot of safety features to the mission.


Don't the Dragons only have a single hatch?

You need two hatches for an airlock....one to pressure and one to vacuum.
 
2022-09-30 8:37:48 PM  

scanman61: Any Pie Left: I think a Crew Dragon could do it. There isn't any spacesuit available for EVA right now apart from the ones used for ISS. It may not need to be manned: I can imagine a sort of hybrid mission with a cargo Dragon delivering and controlling a free-flying robot to the Hubble with robot arms teleoperated locally or on the ground.  If the job is just to open panels, slide out a rack module and replace it, and put the panels back, in theory teleoperation could do that. A human is probably still better at doing it, because Hubble wasn't built to make that job easy, but Crew Dragon isn't built for EVA. It's unnecessarily risky to use the entire cabin as the airlock and put everyone in pressure suits for the entire operation.

I think it might be a smarter but slower play, to send up a tug to drop Hubble to a lower orbit first, and then you could send up a Cargo Dragon and a Crew Dragon, dock them to each other, and use the Crew Dragon as the formal stand-alone airlock and suit stowage/ replacement part stowage. This would add  a lot of safety features to the mission.

Don't the Dragons only have a single hatch?

You need two hatches for an airlock....one to pressure and one to vacuum.


I think you forgot about the hatch in the nose.
 
2022-09-30 8:52:26 PM  
wage0048:My understanding is that Hubble is designed to be captured by the robotic arm on the old STS.  It would be pretty trivial to replicate that on the end of a grappler to allow a SpaceX craft to mate with Hubble.

Indeed, as Canadarm derivatives are still available. Buy one.
 
2022-09-30 9:06:16 PM  

thornhill: avian: Northrop Grumman has a specific product to do just that, completely unmanned. It has already been proven.
https://news.northropgrumman.com/news/releases/northrop-grumman-and-intelsat-make-history-with-docking-of-second-mission-extension-vehicle-to-extend-life-of-satellite

Dude, this is a thread about SpaceX. In the reality of this thread, SpaceX invented space travel and are responsible for all "firsts." Don't go injecting your facts about other private companies beating SpaceX to market.


You must be reading a different thread than the rest of us.
 
2022-10-01 12:02:47 AM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: fat boy: WelldeadLink: fat boy: Hubble currently weighs about 27,000 pounds 44 ft long and 14 ft dia.

After Starship has proved itself, how about bringing it back down, full service then return to orbit?

The solar arrays are probably not designed for gravity after deployment, but those could be replaced on the ground. But did any other components get deployed into a structure which requires microgravity, and which would be destroyed by a return to Earth?

Panels have been replaced once and wiki says it does have a docking port on it .
If SpaceX wants in on this, I think it would be better then deorbiting it.
Even if it never went back up we could probably learn a lot from the experience along with studying long term effects on the components.

That reminds me - have we ever seen any results released regarding study of the LDEF (Long Duration Exposure Facility) after it was finally retrieved?

LDEF was a satellite deployed by the Space Shuttle.  About the size of a school bus, it was intended to expose a lot of different materials, components, systems, and what have you to a space environment (microgravity, vacuum, heat/cold, radiation, micrometeorites, etc.) for nine months, after which the Shuttle would retrieve it, and we'd see how everything held up.

It was deployed by Challenger in April 1984, and ended up being left in orbit until January 1990 because of, let's call it "interruptions to service" in the Shuttle program around that time.

So, it became the 'Loooooooooooooong Duration Exposure Facility'.

Long Duration Exposure Facility (LDEF) (nasa.gov)

Long Duration Exposure Facility - Wikipedia


Deployment of LDEF was featured in the IMAX film "The Dream is Alive."
 
2022-10-01 12:35:26 AM  

Thats My Name too!: Nicholas D. Wolfwood: fat boy: WelldeadLink: fat boy: Hubble currently weighs about 27,000 pounds 44 ft long and 14 ft dia.

After Starship has proved itself, how about bringing it back down, full service then return to orbit?

The solar arrays are probably not designed for gravity after deployment, but those could be replaced on the ground. But did any other components get deployed into a structure which requires microgravity, and which would be destroyed by a return to Earth?

Panels have been replaced once and wiki says it does have a docking port on it .
If SpaceX wants in on this, I think it would be better then deorbiting it.
Even if it never went back up we could probably learn a lot from the experience along with studying long term effects on the components.

That reminds me - have we ever seen any results released regarding study of the LDEF (Long Duration Exposure Facility) after it was finally retrieved?

LDEF was a satellite deployed by the Space Shuttle.  About the size of a school bus, it was intended to expose a lot of different materials, components, systems, and what have you to a space environment (microgravity, vacuum, heat/cold, radiation, micrometeorites, etc.) for nine months, after which the Shuttle would retrieve it, and we'd see how everything held up.

It was deployed by Challenger in April 1984, and ended up being left in orbit until January 1990 because of, let's call it "interruptions to service" in the Shuttle program around that time.

So, it became the 'Loooooooooooooong Duration Exposure Facility'.

Long Duration Exposure Facility (LDEF) (nasa.gov)

Long Duration Exposure Facility - Wikipedia

Deployment of LDEF was featured in the IMAX film "The Dream is Alive."


Yup.  Seen it.  I was curious as to whether anyone has seen any published results from analysis of the materials experiments on the payload.
 
2022-10-01 4:40:14 AM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: Thats My Name too!: Nicholas D. Wolfwood: fat boy: WelldeadLink: fat boy: Hubble currently weighs about 27,000 pounds 44 ft long and 14 ft dia.

After Starship has proved itself, how about bringing it back down, full service then return to orbit?

The solar arrays are probably not designed for gravity after deployment, but those could be replaced on the ground. But did any other components get deployed into a structure which requires microgravity, and which would be destroyed by a return to Earth?

Panels have been replaced once and wiki says it does have a docking port on it .
If SpaceX wants in on this, I think it would be better then deorbiting it.
Even if it never went back up we could probably learn a lot from the experience along with studying long term effects on the components.

That reminds me - have we ever seen any results released regarding study of the LDEF (Long Duration Exposure Facility) after it was finally retrieved?

LDEF was a satellite deployed by the Space Shuttle.  About the size of a school bus, it was intended to expose a lot of different materials, components, systems, and what have you to a space environment (microgravity, vacuum, heat/cold, radiation, micrometeorites, etc.) for nine months, after which the Shuttle would retrieve it, and we'd see how everything held up.

It was deployed by Challenger in April 1984, and ended up being left in orbit until January 1990 because of, let's call it "interruptions to service" in the Shuttle program around that time.

So, it became the 'Loooooooooooooong Duration Exposure Facility'.

Long Duration Exposure Facility (LDEF) (nasa.gov)

Long Duration Exposure Facility - Wikipedia

Deployment of LDEF was featured in the IMAX film "The Dream is Alive."

Yup.  Seen it.  I was curious as to whether anyone has seen any published results from analysis of the materials experiments on the payload.


LDEF Materials Results for Spacecraft Applications
 
2022-10-01 4:54:17 AM  

RaiderFanMikeP: wage0048: f  It would be pretty trivial to replicate that on the end of a grappler to allow a SpaceX craft to mate with Hubble.

More like SpaceXXX  amiright!


Sex is already in the name. SpaceX was intentionally named to sound like space-sex. Just like "Big Falcon Rocket" was intentionally named to sound like "Big F**kin' Rocket".

And Teslas have been released in Models S 3 X and Y.

You dont have to add on additional teenage-snicker factors to anything musk-related, they are already there.
 
2022-10-01 4:56:23 AM  

avian: Exactly my point. People should quit being hipster SpaceX douches.


What is wrong with you?
 
2022-10-01 10:49:53 AM  

WelldeadLink: Maybe SpaceX should shop for a Canadarm to put on a Starship.


Not necessary. The last shuttle mission installed an IDS adaptor that's compatible with Dragon's docking port. So if all they're doing is reboosting, it would be pretty straightforward to do.

An EVA for repairs would be more complicated, but not by much.
 
2022-10-01 10:54:41 AM  

scanman61: Any Pie Left: I think a Crew Dragon could do it. There isn't any spacesuit available for EVA right now apart from the ones used for ISS. It may not need to be manned: I can imagine a sort of hybrid mission with a cargo Dragon delivering and controlling a free-flying robot to the Hubble with robot arms teleoperated locally or on the ground.  If the job is just to open panels, slide out a rack module and replace it, and put the panels back, in theory teleoperation could do that. A human is probably still better at doing it, because Hubble wasn't built to make that job easy, but Crew Dragon isn't built for EVA. It's unnecessarily risky to use the entire cabin as the airlock and put everyone in pressure suits for the entire operation.

 I think it might be a smarter but slower play, to send up a tug to drop Hubble to a lower orbit first, and then you could send up a Cargo Dragon and a Crew Dragon, dock them to each other, and use the Crew Dragon as the formal stand-alone airlock and suit stowage/ replacement part stowage. This would add  a lot of safety features to the mission.

Don't the Dragons only have a single hatch?

You need two hatches for an airlock....one to pressure and one to vacuum.


Airlocks are a nice-to-have for EVAs, but of you can bring enough gas to repress afterwards, you can do without.
 
2022-10-01 11:04:06 AM  

mrmopar5287: Any Pie Left: Crew Dragon isn't built for EVA. It's unnecessarily risky to use the entire cabin as the airlock and put everyone in pressure suits for the entire operation

Subby here. It doesn't have to be.

SpaceX or NASA can design and build something similar to the old Apollo Service Module that has extra supplies, life support, etc. and includes a compartment for an airlock and one or more robot arms for grappling the Hubble and then helping to service it. SpaceX can use a big booster to put the service module in orbit and then a smaller booster to launch a Crew Dragon for in-orbit rendezvous, move to service Hubble, and then the Crew Dragon can return the crew to Earth.


That seems overly complicated, to be honest...

an inflatable airlock would be ideal for this (voskhod style) and would probably be small enough to fit under the nosecone. Any tools or equipment they need could be stored in the trunk, including probably some ladders or construction scaffolds. Of course, an actual EVA would mean the docking adaptor would ALSO be in the trunk and would have to be extendable to allow access after docking.
 
2022-10-01 12:07:31 PM  

common sense is an oxymoron: Nicholas D. Wolfwood: Thats My Name too!: Nicholas D. Wolfwood: fat boy: WelldeadLink: fat boy: Hubble currently weighs about 27,000 pounds 44 ft long and 14 ft dia.

After Starship has proved itself, how about bringing it back down, full service then return to orbit?

The solar arrays are probably not designed for gravity after deployment, but those could be replaced on the ground. But did any other components get deployed into a structure which requires microgravity, and which would be destroyed by a return to Earth?

Panels have been replaced once and wiki says it does have a docking port on it .
If SpaceX wants in on this, I think it would be better then deorbiting it.
Even if it never went back up we could probably learn a lot from the experience along with studying long term effects on the components.

That reminds me - have we ever seen any results released regarding study of the LDEF (Long Duration Exposure Facility) after it was finally retrieved?

LDEF was a satellite deployed by the Space Shuttle.  About the size of a school bus, it was intended to expose a lot of different materials, components, systems, and what have you to a space environment (microgravity, vacuum, heat/cold, radiation, micrometeorites, etc.) for nine months, after which the Shuttle would retrieve it, and we'd see how everything held up.

It was deployed by Challenger in April 1984, and ended up being left in orbit until January 1990 because of, let's call it "interruptions to service" in the Shuttle program around that time.

So, it became the 'Loooooooooooooong Duration Exposure Facility'.

Long Duration Exposure Facility (LDEF) (nasa.gov)

Long Duration Exposure Facility - Wikipedia

Deployment of LDEF was featured in the IMAX film "The Dream is Alive."

Yup.  Seen it.  I was curious as to whether anyone has seen any published results from analysis of the materials experiments on the payload.

LDEF Materials Results for Spacecraft Applications


Thanks!
 
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