Skip to content
Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Times of Malta)   The man who was supposed to torture and break prisoners at Gitmo ended up breaking himself   (timesofmalta.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Osama bin Laden, Torture, Mohamedou Ould Slahi, Slahi's silence, Bin Laden family, Mauritania, Mohamedou Slahi, Mister X  
•       •       •

3247 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Sep 2022 at 3:10 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



50 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-09-29 9:57:14 PM  
For him, this raw physical violence went far beyond the limits of what was permissible and was also not compatible with Rumsfeld's list. Mister X confronted his boss - and was taken off the case the same day.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-29 10:05:01 PM  
Rumsfeld.
War criminal
 
2022-09-29 11:43:35 PM  
That was a farking brutal read, but a great article. 
Not the last thing I want to read before heading off for bed or anything, but thankfully it is still early.
 
2022-09-30 12:23:49 AM  
Christ that is a good article. Brutal, and very good.
 
2022-09-30 3:24:56 AM  

vudukungfu: Rumsfeld.
War criminal


Says a lot that when someone set out to do a neutral Documentary on the bastard he wound up wanting to personally choke the life out of the farker.
 
2022-09-30 3:25:06 AM  

vudukungfu: Rumsfeld.
War criminal


There are known knowns.
 
2022-09-30 3:28:13 AM  
Boo farking hoo, torturer dude.
 
2022-09-30 3:29:10 AM  
What the fark is that crap ?

They interview a farking monster, and they tell us "Look how that man has suffered ? He feel guilty, y'all. Burt he still thinks that the man he tortured is guilty, though. He still thinks he's a liar although he never made him confess anything. Look at him, how he is the victim for the guilt he endures. And on top of that, that was all for nothing !"

farking unbelievable.
 
2022-09-30 3:50:13 AM  
Wow, that is a powerful article.  It gave me chills at some points.
 
2022-09-30 3:51:11 AM  

Exception Collection: torturer dude.


I would pray to god for the privilege of slamming the door to hell shut behind any torturer.
 
2022-09-30 4:06:19 AM  
That was intense. I don't know what it would take to get me to torture someone, but I know if they did it would be the worst thing that ever happened to me.
 
2022-09-30 4:10:34 AM  

fruit flies like a banana: That was intense. I don't know what it would take to get me to torture someone, but I know if they did it would be the worst thing that ever happened to me.


I always think of Terry Pratchett's Small Gods or Pyramids with the torturers being just regular guys with a day job. The banality of evil.
 
2022-09-30 4:15:28 AM  
If you want someone to give you true information, you speak softly to them, get them cookies, booze, cigarettes, money, whatever they want.

If you're torturing them, you're just a sick bastard, and/or you want to force someone to confess to things they didn't do.
 
2022-09-30 4:17:25 AM  
Oh cry me a farking river. What disingenuous shiat. What a disingenuous shiat to write such crap. There is no reason to ever show that man pity, to ever let him sleep a minute without panic attacks and guilt. He chose to torture. His choice was dispicable, and writing about him as if he ever suffered justice is disgusting. He got away with it. He got away with no justice for his victims and their families. And by being that torturer, he personally chose to destroy the power of the Geneva Conventions over everybody. He is, personally, responsible for every torture victim since he began his job. He is gross and the writer of the article is gross.
 
2022-09-30 4:26:29 AM  
So? What was the actual torture? I know I couldn't bear the pain of rt whole fa.
 
2022-09-30 4:33:43 AM  
Those who think TFA is supposed to elicit sympathy for Mister X are missing the point.

Sympathy for the torturer is not the point.  The implication -and probably accurate one- that half of the people you meet on a daily basis could descend to the same depths is the point.

But, yea, go ahead and strip it of all nuance.

/I know, I know...
//Welcome to Fark
 
2022-09-30 4:38:55 AM  

Bennie Crabtree: Oh cry me a farking river. What disingenuous shiat. What a disingenuous shiat to write such crap. There is no reason to ever show that man pity, to ever let him sleep a minute without panic attacks and guilt. He chose to torture. His choice was dispicable, and writing about him as if he ever suffered justice is disgusting. He got away with it. He got away with no justice for his victims and their families. And by being that torturer, he personally chose to destroy the power of the Geneva Conventions over everybody. He is, personally, responsible for every torture victim since he began his job. He is gross and the writer of the article is gross.


I wonder if he was the guy who threatened to rape some guys' five-yo daughter to get him to confess.

Or the one that raped a 15-yo boy in front of his father.
Oh, no, that was Abu Ghraib.

But if he had done it, I'm sure he would have told us how it impacts HIM personaly.
 
2022-09-30 4:46:52 AM  
Mister X is a war criminal and everyone up the chain of command who okayed what he was doing needs to be sent to the Hague for trial.

Sadly that isn't likely to happen.
 
2022-09-30 5:03:17 AM  
Torture begins long before any pain is inflicted or harm done to the subject.

Torture begins the moment the interrogator decides based on no other evidence but their own gut feeling that "this person has information I need and is refusing to tell me."

Anyone who can make themselves believe in "proof without evidence" has already started on the path "Mr. X" took and more than a few Farkers are well along that road.

The next big jump is saying "the end justifies the means" and you're more than halfway to sticking someone's hand in a blender until you get the information you think they have.

"Easy is the descent of Avernus, but to recall your steps, there is toil, there is hardship."
 
2022-09-30 5:26:09 AM  
America. Fark yeah! You're either with us or against us.

/Uglee. Like MTG and Boobert ovulating.
 
2022-09-30 5:46:23 AM  

patcarew: America. Fark yeah! You're either with us or against us.

/Uglee. Like MTG and Boobert ovulating.


Gross. Imagine the smell
 
2022-09-30 5:52:29 AM  

bughunter: Those who think TFA is supposed to elicit sympathy for Mister X are missing the point.

Sympathy for the torturer is not the point.  The implication -and probably accurate one- that half of the people you meet on a daily basis could descend to the same depths is the point.

But, yea, go ahead and strip it of all nuance.

/I know, I know...
//Welcome to Fark


I think it's also a warning that it's perilous to think one can gamble with their own humanity and come out unscathed...and those who remain unaffected are likely sociopaths.
 
2022-09-30 5:54:11 AM  

fruit flies like a banana: That was intense. I don't know what it would take to get me to torture someone, but I know if they did it would be the worst thing that ever happened to me.


Oddly enough, there have been studies. It actually doesn't take much to get some to become a torturer.  Look how easy it is in politics just to drive  wedge between 'them and us' and dehumanize the other side and make them the enemy.
 
2022-09-30 6:05:05 AM  
I learned years ago that the only time I have the guts to hurt someone is to protect my kids.  Not my spouse, probably not even my pets.

And even then, I felt no shame, hurting those individuals.  But, absent the immediate threat to my kids, I can't see me doing it.

I would feel shame at my inability to feel for others what I feel for my kids, but that's a shame I'll bear.  The humiliation of hurting someone on a whim or as my job?  Nope, can't do it.
 
2022-09-30 6:45:27 AM  
Extract his eyes and maybe he will start to have paid a price.
 
2022-09-30 6:47:59 AM  
Holy shiat. That was some intense reading.

Honestly, it speaks volumes that we - or you as Americans - do even have that debate. In other places it's a matter of everyone is doing it and should we, deflection, total lack of reflection. Nobody would be allowed to criticize the chain of command, let alone openly, in Russia or China.

There have been a lot of experiments, most famous probably the Stanford prison experiment that highlights what regular Joes are capable of doing to others. This guy probably thought if he wasn't going to extract some information, many people would die. So it wasn't a simulation but a real life scenario. I do not know what I would do and so far I am rather relaxed I won't ever get into such a situation.
 
2022-09-30 6:49:14 AM  

covalesj: fruit flies like a banana: That was intense. I don't know what it would take to get me to torture someone, but I know if they did it would be the worst thing that ever happened to me.

Oddly enough, there have been studies. It actually doesn't take much to get some to become a torturer.  Look how easy it is in politics just to drive  wedge between 'them and us' and dehumanize the other side and make them the enemy.


The Milgram experiment broke this down even further.

If someone in a perceived position of authority says it is okay to do something, a surprising amount of people would go through with it.

Milgram predicted only 0.1% would administer potentially lethal shocks, but discovered that about 60% would do so.
 
2022-09-30 7:06:03 AM  
I am so, so sorry,
So sorry he hasn't been beaten slowly to death or at least spent his entire life since then in prison.
 
2022-09-30 7:10:41 AM  

dailygrinds: So? What was the actual torture? I know I couldn't bear the pain of rt whole fa.


The article is about "Mister X". It doesn't detail everything, but sleep deprivation / excessive & continuous noise, fear and threat of physical violence.

Then they mention he got a new boss who ordered beatings and isolation, which is when "Mister X" said those were steps too far and quit.

Article didn't mention what the victim was thrown in Gitmo for, but the journos made it pretty clear that there was ample reason to believe that the victim had the information that "Mister X" was attempting to obtain.
 
2022-09-30 7:13:04 AM  

anuran: I am so, so sorry,
So sorry he hasn't been beaten slowly to death or at least spent his entire life since then in prison.


Guess you're more like him than you realize.

Facilis descensus Averno.
 
2022-09-30 7:21:44 AM  

bughunter: Those who think TFA is supposed to elicit sympathy for Mister X are missing the point.

Sympathy for the torturer is not the point.  The implication -and probably accurate one- that half of the people you meet on a daily basis could descend to the same depths is the point.

But, yea, go ahead and strip it of all nuance.

/I know, I know...
//Welcome to Fark


I don't think that's accurate...or completely anyway.  I think both points are valid - that you can slip so f the gov't for knowing that and doing it - and Mr X can say he's sorry but still rationalize his actions even with his guilt.  I mean, the whole "that's not who we are" is pretty telling - that's a desperate statement.  I know that folks wishing ill of someone like this often don't understand the pain of hating yourself.  But I don't believe Mr X feels that.  I think the article attempts to put that nuance forward...not sure this is the right story for it.
 
2022-09-30 7:23:28 AM  

Alphax: If you want someone to give you true information, you speak softly to them, get them cookies, booze, cigarettes, money, whatever they want.

If you're torturing them, you're just a sick bastard, and/or you want to force someone to confess to things they didn't do.


Ali Soufan told the CIA that they had got accurate information from Khalid Sheikh Mohamed by simply offering him Pepsi and talking to him like a human being. See the book by Ali Soufan, Black Banners: How Torture Derailed the War on Terror after 9/11 or the book by Lawrence Wright, and the excellent tv series The Looming Tower.

Ali Soufan successfully interrogated a few al-Qaida prisoners, and intelligently used the Qur'an and hadith to show them that Islam opposed their terrorism. Then the CIA and their hired guns stepped in, and tortured the prisoners to the point where any putative 'confessions' would be inadmissible in any court of law (outside of Russia, perhaps) because torture makes people say what they think the interrogator wants to hear, crucially not the truth.

See also The Report about Daniel Jones and the Senate investigation of the CIA torture program.
 
2022-09-30 7:25:51 AM  

Gyrfalcon: anuran: I am so, so sorry,
So sorry he hasn't been beaten slowly to death or at least spent his entire life since then in prison.

Guess you're more like him than you realize.

Facilis descensus Averno.


What he deserves and what should morally be done to him should be different things.
But the most powerful nation in history has decreed that he and the rest of his type are above the Law and beyond any sort of human justice. And it would fatally damage the United States of America if he were to stand in front of a Court ever for any reason.

Who am I to disagree with President Bush or President Obama?
 
2022-09-30 7:33:55 AM  
I remember lots of Farkers defending torture under Bush.  Some of them are even still around.
 
2022-09-30 7:34:58 AM  

padraig: What the fark is that crap ?

They interview a farking monster, and they tell us "Look how that man has suffered ? He feel guilty, y'all. Burt he still thinks that the man he tortured is guilty, though. He still thinks he's a liar although he never made him confess anything. Look at him, how he is the victim for the guilt he endures. And on top of that, that was all for nothing !"

farking unbelievable.


If that's the spin, I'm glad I didn't read all of it.
 
2022-09-30 7:38:47 AM  
The least surprising thing about that story:

The guy who stepped up the torture to physical abuse and threatening to rape the detainee's family (not the subject of the article) went on to become a cop and retire and is proud of his actions.
 
2022-09-30 7:39:17 AM  

anuran: Gyrfalcon: anuran: I am so, so sorry,
So sorry he hasn't been beaten slowly to death or at least spent his entire life since then in prison.

Guess you're more like him than you realize.

Facilis descensus Averno.

What he deserves and what should morally be done to him should be different things.
But the most powerful nation in history has decreed that he and the rest of his type are above the Law and beyond any sort of human justice. And it would fatally damage the United States of America if he were to stand in front of a Court ever for any reason.

Who am I to disagree with President Bush or President Obama?


That's all entirely irrelevant.

You're the one who wants him tortured to death. You, personally.

You're expressing the same emotions and thoughts towards him that he felt towards his victims. If given the chance, you could torture him, because you believe it is right, it is justice.

Not "Bush" or "the government". You believe it. And once you start to believe it, it's only a few more steps to doing it.

Facilis descendus Averno.
 
2022-09-30 7:39:26 AM  

cherryl taggart: I learned years ago that the only time I have the guts to hurt someone is to protect my kids.  Not my spouse, probably not even my pets.

And even then, I felt no shame, hurting those individuals.  But, absent the immediate threat to my kids, I can't see me doing it.

I would feel shame at my inability to feel for others what I feel for my kids, but that's a shame I'll bear.  The humiliation of hurting someone on a whim or as my job?  Nope, can't do it.


The ticking time scenario is always artificial (torturing someone to get the location of a bomb).  Beyond ethics it is the worse way to find the bomb location.

If you have the ability to torture the person who was going to hurt your children means they are no longer a threat.  I don't mind violence of even killing to protect people but torture is 100% wrong under all circumstances.
 
2022-09-30 7:50:36 AM  

mrshowrules: padraig: What the fark is that crap ?

They interview a farking monster, and they tell us "Look how that man has suffered ? He feel guilty, y'all. Burt he still thinks that the man he tortured is guilty, though. He still thinks he's a liar although he never made him confess anything. Look at him, how he is the victim for the guilt he endures. And on top of that, that was all for nothing !"

farking unbelievable.

If that's the spin, I'm glad I didn't read all of it.


It isn't, but this is the internet, where we have to boil complex thoughts and relationships down to something that offends us.
 
2022-09-30 7:56:32 AM  

Markoff_Cheney: That was a farking brutal read, but a great article. 
Not the last thing I want to read before heading off for bed or anything, but thankfully it is still early.


Agreed, excellent but unnerving read
 
2022-09-30 8:11:23 AM  
Richard Zuley himself says: "All Mister X got out of Slahi was petty stuff. Slahi had everything under control, we had to change that."

Zuley now lives in a row house on the north side of Chicago. For years he worked here as a police officer, now, in retirement, he spends a lot of time at the airfield where his small plane is parked. When Zuley talks about how he took over Slahi's interrogations, he smiles. "There was no question then who was in charge."

Zuley suggested to Slahi that his mother could be raped if he did not talk. And under Zuley's command, Slahi was beaten half to death. That was one day in late August 2003. When Mister X saw Slahi's bloody and swollen face, he says, he was shocked. For him, this raw physical violence went far beyond the limits of what was permissible and was also not compatible with Rumsfeld's list. Mister X confronted his boss - and was taken off the case the same day.

When asked why, Zuley replies, "I deployed people who were effective." You don't feel any sense of guilt, only pride that he managed to break Slahi.


This asshole is so proud of his "effectiveness", when all that he produced with all his pain and suffering was absolutely useless made-up blathering from a terrified man.  It was exactly the opposite of effective.  Even if he thinks that torture is great and America is perfect, he should be ashamed of wasting so many intelligence resources as a result of his stupidity.

He should be more ashamed of torturing someone at all, but that seems unlikely.
 
2022-09-30 8:19:40 AM  

padraig: What the fark is that crap ?

They interview a farking monster, and they tell us "Look how that man has suffered ? He feel guilty, y'all. Burt he still thinks that the man he tortured is guilty, though. He still thinks he's a liar although he never made him confess anything. Look at him, how he is the victim for the guilt he endures. And on top of that, that was all for nothing !"

farking unbelievable.


I expect more of this in the future.

"Doing crimes against humanity farked me up! Please feel bad for me, all the tax payer money isn't enough to sooth my guilt!"

Nah, that base can fall into the sea with everyone who worked there. Even the assholes who work in the gift shop.
 
2022-09-30 8:22:03 AM  

clawsoon: This asshole is so proud of his "effectiveness"


Which is to say, since I had to rush my daughter out the door to the bus before completing my thought, that he is a clown who thinks he's a hero.  A bumbling, psychopathic clown who pictures himself as a man of steel who saved America.
 
2022-09-30 8:39:23 AM  

clawsoon: clawsoon: This asshole is so proud of his "effectiveness"

Which is to say, since I had to rush my daughter out the door to the bus before completing my thought, that he is a clown who thinks he's a hero.  A bumbling, psychopathic clown who pictures himself as a man of steel who saved America.


Which, btw, is not the guy who was the main subject of the article, so people who DNRTFA are clear.

At least the subject of the article has gone on to publicly denounce his own actions, even though they weren't as severe as this asshole's, and actively works to disabuse people of the notion that torture is something that should be done.
 
2022-09-30 9:05:21 AM  

whatisaidwas: vudukungfu: Rumsfeld.
War criminal

There are known knowns.


Known unknown: which circle of hell Rumsfeld is slated in.

/Or would be if hell existed.
 
2022-09-30 9:08:00 AM  
We go over this and over this.  The point of using torture at places like Gitmo and Abu Ghraib is not to gain valuable intelligence.  The CIA's own guidelines say that torture is not a reliable way to get information out of people, and that they have much better ways to do it.

The point of using torture is to gain kompromat on the soldiers and police who perform it.  The CIA records everything.  Ten, twenty, thirty years later, SOMEONE who was there will be in a useful position, and the CIA will own them.  Usually our own people, but also foreign personnel who work at rendition centers elsewhere.

This is always the main reason for it.  Yes, it's useful to find out who will follow any order, no matter what it is.  It's useful to desensitize a small percentage of soldiers to the point where they can't be shocked.  And so on.  But mostly it's to gather kompromat.

If you gotta ask why the CIA would gather kompromat on any particular person, then you don't understand how the game is played.  The CIA wants kompromat on anyone and everyone, because you never know what will be handy.  But a whole lot of politicians, etc, are former soldiers.  Go figure.
 
2022-09-30 9:41:05 AM  
No, you're going to torture me.
Youtube cCc9Q391TV8
 
2022-09-30 10:25:21 AM  

IAmRight: mrshowrules: padraig: What the fark is that crap ?

They interview a farking monster, and they tell us "Look how that man has suffered ? He feel guilty, y'all. Burt he still thinks that the man he tortured is guilty, though. He still thinks he's a liar although he never made him confess anything. Look at him, how he is the victim for the guilt he endures. And on top of that, that was all for nothing !"

farking unbelievable.

If that's the spin, I'm glad I didn't read all of it.

It isn't, but this is the internet, where we have to boil complex thoughts and relationships down to something that offends us.


I guess I should read it myself but I will have a very low threshold for any empathy to the torturer.  He should be in prison.
 
2022-09-30 11:27:31 AM  
In some ways torturers are as much victims as the tortured. In many more ways the tortured are y'know, actual victims.

You can feel pity for a torturer and still want him to face justice. Or if that's impossible, take some measure of satisfaction in knowing his conscience is raking him over the coals.

I've been in situations where I've had power over people. Never even occurred to me to abuse it. And in fact I entertained disobeying orders if it got to where they went to far. It never did. But I watched the Milgram experiment and the Stanford prison experiments in high school so I was inoculated in a way against blindly following authority. Plus I'm sort of built that way so taking orders for even just making my bed was a real pain in the ass for me in the first place. I've been told I think too much. But I read Arendt in high school too.

I can see how someone who's into blindly following orders can fall into that trap though. That doesn't mean I don't think they should have to pay for it.

We do have to eradicate the way propaganda and disinformation is radicalizing our society. People thinking for themselves is the last thing the powers that be want. That alone should be one big reason why to support it.
 
2022-10-01 6:12:18 AM  

Alebak: padraig: What the fark is that crap ?

They interview a farking monster, and they tell us "Look how that man has suffered ? He feel guilty, y'all. Burt he still thinks that the man he tortured is guilty, though. He still thinks he's a liar although he never made him confess anything. Look at him, how he is the victim for the guilt he endures. And on top of that, that was all for nothing !"

farking unbelievable.

I expect more of this in the future.

"Doing crimes against humanity farked me up! Please feel bad for me, all the tax payer money isn't enough to sooth my guilt!"

Nah, that base can fall into the sea with everyone who worked there. Even the assholes who work in the gift shop.


Isn't that basically what they did in the last season's of 24 ? Basically turning Bauer in a Christ-like figure that sacrificed his soul using torture to save us all?
 
Displayed 50 of 50 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.