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(Some Guy)   As if Russian missiles weren't bad enough, soon Russian airliners will be falling from the skies as well   (simpleflying.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Airliner, Boeing 737, Airbus A320 family, Boeing, Russian aircraft, Bombardier CSeries, Boeing 787, new-generation Irkut MS-21  
•       •       •

4510 clicks; posted to Main » and Business » on 29 Sep 2022 at 11:04 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-09-29 9:29:15 PM  
For a brief moment it looked like the world was going to put away petty differences and get along in the interest of global economic progress. Now it looks like I'll probably live long enough to see another Cold War, except with a more powerful China, a weak but still nuclear armed Russia, and a batshiat insane US. Still, I've seen a variation of this film before.

Maybe they'll bring back the nuclear drills like the old days!
 
2022-09-29 10:51:23 PM  
Lol ..do it. No country will let you into or over their airspace.
 
2022-09-29 11:05:55 PM  
No they won't.  All the pilots are gonna be drafted.
 
2022-09-29 11:07:53 PM  
Cool. More dead Moskals.
 
2022-09-29 11:10:48 PM  

Lsherm: For a brief moment it looked like the world was going to put away petty differences and get along in the interest of global economic progress. Now it looks like I'll probably live long enough to see another Cold War, except with a more powerful China, a weak but still nuclear armed Russia, and a batshiat insane US. Still, I've seen a variation of this film before.

Maybe they'll bring back the nuclear drills like the old days!


Nah, times have moved on in some ways. It's active shooter drills now.
 
2022-09-29 11:12:57 PM  
I believe Russia no longer has the culture required to maintain a technological society.  Kleptocracy is the way, and it is far too inefficient a model to function for long unless propped up from outside.  When everyone's primary focus is to steal what they can because anything else means losing out, and when everyone's secondary focus is keeping their head down so they're not noticed and punished by the state... you're not going to get a lot of industrious or inventive people.  And the state will find that threats and beatings don't improve things much.

They're going to regress technologically back to whatever level can be sustained by individuals and the resources generally available to average people.  So maybe early-to-mid 20th century?  That plus whatever can be smuggled in.
 
2022-09-29 11:17:35 PM  
Counterfeit parts from Iran. What could possibly go wrong there?
 
2022-09-29 11:21:24 PM  
My Dad went to Russia for a couple of business trips back in the 90s.  On domestic flights, he told me that there were zero manners when the aircraft arrived at the gate...people were pushing each other to get off the plane early.
 
2022-09-29 11:23:28 PM  

Lsherm: For a brief moment it looked like the world was going to put away petty differences and get along in the interest of global economic progress. Now it looks like I'll probably live long enough to see another Cold War, except with a more powerful China, a weak but still nuclear armed Russia, and a batshiat insane US. Still, I've seen a variation of this film before.

Maybe they'll bring back the nuclear drills like the old days!


I got to see Russia collapse twice in my lifetime. That seems like a lot.
 
2022-09-29 11:26:27 PM  
From now on, only locally-sourced, artisanal airplanes.
 
2022-09-29 11:26:59 PM  

The_Sponge: My Dad went to Russia for a couple of business trips back in the 90s.  On domestic flights, he told me that there were zero manners when the aircraft arrived at the gate...people were pushing each other to get off the plane early.


CSB
 
2022-09-29 11:28:00 PM  

Unsung_Hero: I believe Russia no longer has the culture required to maintain a technological society.  Kleptocracy is the way, and it is far too inefficient a model to function for long unless propped up from outside.  When everyone's primary focus is to steal what they can because anything else means losing out, and when everyone's secondary focus is keeping their head down so they're not noticed and punished by the state... you're not going to get a lot of industrious or inventive people.  And the state will find that threats and beatings don't improve things much.

They're going to regress technologically back to whatever level can be sustained by individuals and the resources generally available to average people.  So maybe early-to-mid 20th century?  That plus whatever can be smuggled in.


So your epiphany is that Russia is a jealous, backwater nation that covets Western technology and and acceptance.....and this is a new thought?  Have you been paying any attention to the last few hundred years of their history?
 
2022-09-29 11:29:35 PM  

chitownmike: The_Sponge: My Dad went to Russia for a couple of business trips back in the 90s.  On domestic flights, he told me that there were zero manners when the aircraft arrived at the gate...people were pushing each other to get off the plane early.

CSB


Thanks.  My Dad has 100% Ukrainian heritage, so obviously, we are not fans of the Ivans.
 
2022-09-29 11:47:04 PM  
"Foreign aircraft will drop out of the fleet."

A rather unfortunate way of putting it when talking about airplanes. Also probably accurate.
 
2022-09-29 11:47:32 PM  

ObscureNameHere: Unsung_Hero: I believe Russia no longer has the culture required to maintain a technological society.  Kleptocracy is the way, and it is far too inefficient a model to function for long unless propped up from outside.  When everyone's primary focus is to steal what they can because anything else means losing out, and when everyone's secondary focus is keeping their head down so they're not noticed and punished by the state... you're not going to get a lot of industrious or inventive people.  And the state will find that threats and beatings don't improve things much.

They're going to regress technologically back to whatever level can be sustained by individuals and the resources generally available to average people.  So maybe early-to-mid 20th century?  That plus whatever can be smuggled in.

So your epiphany is that Russia is a jealous, backwater nation that covets Western technology and and acceptance.....and this is a new thought?  Have you been paying any attention to the last few hundred years of their history?


Russia does have the capability of being a 1st world country, but the leadership just isn't interested in doing so.  Those of us in the Western world got a very clear reminder that we aren't that far away either.

Putin absolutely deserves death, but ffs stop dehumanizing entire countries.
 
2022-09-29 11:48:36 PM  
4.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2022-09-29 11:57:15 PM  

Theeng: ObscureNameHere: Unsung_Hero: I believe Russia no longer has the culture required to maintain a technological society.  Kleptocracy is the way, and it is far too inefficient a model to function for long unless propped up from outside.  When everyone's primary focus is to steal what they can because anything else means losing out, and when everyone's secondary focus is keeping their head down so they're not noticed and punished by the state... you're not going to get a lot of industrious or inventive people.  And the state will find that threats and beatings don't improve things much.

They're going to regress technologically back to whatever level can be sustained by individuals and the resources generally available to average people.  So maybe early-to-mid 20th century?  That plus whatever can be smuggled in.

So your epiphany is that Russia is a jealous, backwater nation that covets Western technology and and acceptance.....and this is a new thought?  Have you been paying any attention to the last few hundred years of their history?

Russia does have the capability of being a 1st world country, but the leadership just isn't interested in doing so.  Those of us in the Western world got a very clear reminder that we aren't that far away either.

Putin absolutely deserves death, but ffs stop dehumanizing entire countries.


Oh fark you, go read a book or three.   Start with something on Peter the Great then work your way forward.   For as long as it matters, Russia has always been the way it is and the Russian people never seem to get it right when it comes to not bending over for the newest flavour of Authoritarianism.
 
2022-09-30 12:00:53 AM  

Unsung_Hero: I believe Russia no longer has the culture required to maintain a technological society.  Kleptocracy is the way, and it is far too inefficient a model to function for long unless propped up from outside.  When everyone's primary focus is to steal what they can because anything else means losing out, and when everyone's secondary focus is keeping their head down so they're not noticed and punished by the state... you're not going to get a lot of industrious or inventive people.  And the state will find that threats and beatings don't improve things much.

They're going to regress technologically back to whatever level can be sustained by individuals and the resources generally available to average people.  So maybe early-to-mid 20th century?  That plus whatever can be smuggled in.


Early to mid 20th century?  Yeah, no.  The technology bell can't be unrung.  Hell, even in Best Korea they're smuggling in USB flash drives with South Korean soap operas and stuff on them, which ostensibly means there's something on the North side that's able to play that media that the populous has private access to.

It's blaringly evident to me that Putin and the regime, for all the talk about Russian 4D chess and seeing 45 moves ahead and all that, aren't students of history since they're repeating the last years of the Soviet dynasty.

- Invade a seemingly inferior country with hopes of a quick win.
- Get bogged down in said offensive with no clear path to victory
- You know the enemy is getting Western help, but you're powerless to stop it
- When forces deplete, start drafting conscripts and throw as much meat into the grinder as possible to save face

The difference this time, is that it's not going to take 9 years from the initial invasion to the endgame, due to the speed of information now vs. then.  The only true unknown is, what will Russia look like post-Putin?
 
2022-09-30 12:02:39 AM  
I think Russia is going to be the new North Korea. Isolationist and propped up/owned by China. But the Russian leaders will be happy because they'll be sticking it to the West. They will also launch the occasional missile into the Sea of Japan because tradition demands it.
 
2022-09-30 12:06:12 AM  

Birnone: I think Russia is going to be the new North Korea. Isolationist and propped up/owned by China. But the Russian leaders will be happy because they'll be sticking it to the West. They will also launch the occasional missile into the Sea of Japan because tradition demands it.


Russia will become Cuba, but without beaches and decent music or food.
 
2022-09-30 12:07:05 AM  

ObscureNameHere: Theeng: ObscureNameHere: Unsung_Hero: I believe Russia no longer has the culture required to maintain a technological society.  Kleptocracy is the way, and it is far too inefficient a model to function for long unless propped up from outside.  When everyone's primary focus is to steal what they can because anything else means losing out, and when everyone's secondary focus is keeping their head down so they're not noticed and punished by the state... you're not going to get a lot of industrious or inventive people.  And the state will find that threats and beatings don't improve things much.

They're going to regress technologically back to whatever level can be sustained by individuals and the resources generally available to average people.  So maybe early-to-mid 20th century?  That plus whatever can be smuggled in.

So your epiphany is that Russia is a jealous, backwater nation that covets Western technology and and acceptance.....and this is a new thought?  Have you been paying any attention to the last few hundred years of their history?

Russia does have the capability of being a 1st world country, but the leadership just isn't interested in doing so.  Those of us in the Western world got a very clear reminder that we aren't that far away either.

Putin absolutely deserves death, but ffs stop dehumanizing entire countries.

Oh fark you, go read a book or three.   Start with something on Peter the Great then work your way forward.   For as long as it matters, Russia has always been the way it is and the Russian people never seem to get it right when it comes to not bending over for the newest flavour of Authoritarianism.


Or I could just be a former military officer who has gotten tired of all this "orc" shiat and memes.  Propaganda sucks all the brains out of people by design, even if it's your side.
 
2022-09-30 12:10:23 AM  
russia, russia, russia
 
2022-09-30 12:11:37 AM  

Theeng: ObscureNameHere: Theeng: ObscureNameHere: Unsung_Hero: I believe Russia no longer has the culture required to maintain a technological society.  Kleptocracy is the way, and it is far too inefficient a model to function for long unless propped up from outside.  When everyone's primary focus is to steal what they can because anything else means losing out, and when everyone's secondary focus is keeping their head down so they're not noticed and punished by the state... you're not going to get a lot of industrious or inventive people.  And the state will find that threats and beatings don't improve things much.

They're going to regress technologically back to whatever level can be sustained by individuals and the resources generally available to average people.  So maybe early-to-mid 20th century?  That plus whatever can be smuggled in.

So your epiphany is that Russia is a jealous, backwater nation that covets Western technology and and acceptance.....and this is a new thought?  Have you been paying any attention to the last few hundred years of their history?

Russia does have the capability of being a 1st world country, but the leadership just isn't interested in doing so.  Those of us in the Western world got a very clear reminder that we aren't that far away either.

Putin absolutely deserves death, but ffs stop dehumanizing entire countries.

Oh fark you, go read a book or three.   Start with something on Peter the Great then work your way forward.   For as long as it matters, Russia has always been the way it is and the Russian people never seem to get it right when it comes to not bending over for the newest flavour of Authoritarianism.

Or I could just be a former military officer who has gotten tired of all this "orc" shiat and memes.  Propaganda sucks all the brains out of people by design, even if it's your side.


Ooooh we got an officer here everyone. Bow down.
 
2022-09-30 12:22:56 AM  

some_beer_drinker: russia, russia, russia


I must admit, the spectacle of Russia speed running national suicide is enough to distract from America's Trump and abortion problems, England's Brexit, covid, the queen of England's death, and just about anything else.

Has a nation ever suicided in such a spectacular fashion before?

/MOAR
 
2022-09-30 12:28:05 AM  

Iworkformsn: Ooooh we got an officer here everyone. Bow down.


An officer means he's better than us. Also knows things we could NEVER know, even though like 90% of officer training is logistics lessons learned during WWII and the writings of a 6th century Chinese general.
 
2022-09-30 12:41:11 AM  

Cubansaltyballs: Iworkformsn: Ooooh we got an officer here everyone. Bow down.

An officer means he's better than us. Also knows things we could NEVER know, even though like 90% of officer training is logistics lessons learned during WWII and the writings of a 6th century Chinese general.


I do believe I've struck a nerve, good.

Are you surprised that a former member of the US military remembers Iraq and Afghanistan?  The shiat I hear about Russia is following the same rulebook because it works so damn well. You should support Ukraine all you can, but don't pretend shiat like "the only good orc is a dead orc" is any different than the idiots who wanted to glass the desert.
 
2022-09-30 12:43:00 AM  
Aeroflop?

/Got nothin'
 
2022-09-30 12:44:37 AM  

some_beer_drinker: russia, russia, russia


The Brady Bunch - Marcia, Marcia, Marcia
Youtube ICVXf8Vznec
 
2022-09-30 12:47:39 AM  
Man, things have gone so far backwards so fast. I mean, Rush has been backsliding for a while but they've gone from sliding to gigantic leap

Soviet Union was not a successful model not only because communism. It was not a successful model because they couldn't sustain themselves alone, all the rest of the world learn to work together

farking Wild times. Abortion is being made illegal in the us, fascist movements are piling out of the woodwork and occasionally getting elected, Russia has become the big bad enemy again, nuclear war is back on the table, and I can't even get any Tang around here
 
2022-09-30 12:49:26 AM  

Cubansaltyballs: Iworkformsn: Ooooh we got an officer here everyone. Bow down.

An officer means he's better than us. Also knows things we could NEVER know, even though like 90% of officer training is logistics lessons learned during WWII and the writings of a 6th century Chinese general.


but don't let get in the way of your bigotry
 
2022-09-30 12:54:38 AM  
The Sukhoi Superjet episode of Mayday/Air Crash Investigation was a bit of a face-palmer. The test pilot drilled the plane into the side of an Indonesian mountain during a sales pitch flight.
 
2022-09-30 1:01:00 AM  
The name of Boeing will still be strongly connected to the Russian aviation industry

///if only because "Boeing, Boeing, Boeing," is the sound that will be heard when those Russian built planes crash on takeoff and bounce repeatedly down the runway

///don't clap, I'll see myself out
 
2022-09-30 1:12:25 AM  

chawco: Man, things have gone so far backwards so fast. I mean, Rush has been backsliding for a while but they've gone from sliding to gigantic leap

Soviet Union was not a successful model not only because communism. It was not a successful model because they couldn't sustain themselves alone, all the rest of the world learn to work together

farking Wild times. Abortion is being made illegal in the us, fascist movements are piling out of the woodwork and occasionally getting elected, Russia has become the big bad enemy again, nuclear war is back on the table, and I can't even get any Tang around here


What's so ridiculous is the feeling all of this could have been avoided... Russia was doing well overall until 2014, and even after screwing with Ukraine the first they recovered. And then they stuck their figurative dicks into a cactus.

But also the other things feel stupid and avoidable... Like we're barreling into a wall knowing we have working brakes but just don't want to use them, in so many ways. Some weird spite seems to be motivating everything. Fascism coming into vogue was definitely NOT on my radar.
 
2022-09-30 1:25:02 AM  

Theeng: ObscureNameHere: Unsung_Hero: I believe Russia no longer has the culture required to maintain a technological society.  Kleptocracy is the way, and it is far too inefficient a model to function for long unless propped up from outside.  When everyone's primary focus is to steal what they can because anything else means losing out, and when everyone's secondary focus is keeping their head down so they're not noticed and punished by the state... you're not going to get a lot of industrious or inventive people.  And the state will find that threats and beatings don't improve things much.

They're going to regress technologically back to whatever level can be sustained by individuals and the resources generally available to average people.  So maybe early-to-mid 20th century?  That plus whatever can be smuggled in.

So your epiphany is that Russia is a jealous, backwater nation that covets Western technology and and acceptance.....and this is a new thought?  Have you been paying any attention to the last few hundred years of their history?

Russia does have the capability of being a 1st world country, but the leadership just isn't interested in doing so.  Those of us in the Western world got a very clear reminder that we aren't that far away either.

Putin absolutely deserves death, but ffs stop dehumanizing entire countries.


Russia is pretty much 2nd world by definition.
 
2022-09-30 1:31:42 AM  

Theeng: Russia does have the capability of being a 1st world country, but the leadership just isn't interested in doing so. Those of us in the Western world got a very clear reminder that we aren't that far away either.


Nice whataboutism there, sir.

/Wat?! A ruzzian-loving conservative who doesn't realize he's a fascist yet?
//It's more likely than you think. Mostly it's the disappointment they find after a lifetime of believing the Freedumb (TM) propaganda and realizing that this is all they get in the end. It's an existential crisis.
///Drei kleines fashzimus
 
2022-09-30 1:31:56 AM  

Zog Zogu: Birnone: I think Russia is going to be the new North Korea. Isolationist and propped up/owned by China. But the Russian leaders will be happy because they'll be sticking it to the West. They will also launch the occasional missile into the Sea of Japan because tradition demands it.

Russia will become Cuba, but without beaches and decent music or food.


Cuba also has education and healthcare.
 
2022-09-30 1:50:21 AM  
How soon before Putin announces the imminent launch of the worlds first hypersonic airliner?
 
2022-09-30 1:52:21 AM  

Sleeper_agent: Zog Zogu: Birnone: I think Russia is going to be the new North Korea. Isolationist and propped up/owned by China. But the Russian leaders will be happy because they'll be sticking it to the West. They will also launch the occasional missile into the Sea of Japan because tradition demands it.

Russia will become Cuba, but without beaches and decent music or food.

Cuba also has education and healthcare.


I ain't knockin' Cuba. They had the good sense to drive away Ted Cruz's old man.
 
2022-09-30 2:00:31 AM  
"Fly Aeroflop" has a certain ring to it.
 
2022-09-30 2:01:00 AM  

chawco: Man, things have gone so far backwards so fast. I mean, Rush has been backsliding for a while but they've gone from sliding to gigantic leap

Soviet Union was not a successful model not only because communism. It was not a successful model because they couldn't sustain themselves alone, all the rest of the world learn to work together

farking Wild times. Abortion is being made illegal in the us, fascist movements are piling out of the woodwork and occasionally getting elected, Russia has become the big bad enemy again, nuclear war is back on the table, and I can't even get any Tang around here


Amazon sells tang in large quantities.
 
2022-09-30 2:06:36 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Theeng: Russia does have the capability of being a 1st world country, but the leadership just isn't interested in doing so. Those of us in the Western world got a very clear reminder that we aren't that far away either.

Nice whataboutism there, sir.

/Wat?! A ruzzian-loving conservative who doesn't realize he's a fascist yet?
//It's more likely than you think. Mostly it's the disappointment they find after a lifetime of believing the Freedumb (TM) propaganda and realizing that this is all they get in the end. It's an existential crisis.
///Drei kleines fashzimus


You know, I don't think I've ever had someone miss the mark quite so hard when targeting me.

/I was referring to Trump btw, openly wants to be Putin, and a lot of very stupid people want him in charge still. We dismiss the lesson from Russia at our peril.
 
2022-09-30 2:41:54 AM  

minnkat: "Foreign aircraft will drop out of the fleet."

A rather unfortunate way of putting it when talking about airplanes. Also probably accurate.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-30 3:00:55 AM  
Theeng:

Or I could just be a former military officer who has gotten tired of all this "orc" shiat and memes.  Propaganda sucks all the brains out of people by design, even if it's your side.

The orcs are doing a very good job of dehumanizing themselves. We've known that since April when the first photos from Bucha were published.

Also, I wouldn't try to get too high and mighty about the officer thing. The only difference between you and a private first class is that the PFC's been promoted once.
 
2022-09-30 4:07:29 AM  
Even Russia's domestic aircraft manufacturing must be heavily reliant on Western support. Think of all the software and manufacturing equipment that is needed just to design and manufacture the plane let alone what goes in the plane itself. Even the computers they sit in front of to run their CAD software or the servers the files get stored on. Or some fancy CNC machine used to make some component. Anything and everything that came from the West will not receive support, supplies, updates, or bug fixes.

I bet this problem spans right across all high tech sectors in Russia. I suppose if they had a Stalinesque 5 year plan they might improve the situation but right now they're are screwed. Software will go bitrotten, machines will break, parts, spares and machinery will run out. They'll have to resort to hacking, bodging, counterfeit parts and horrific shortcuts just to keep going.

On top of that all the smart people who don't want to get shot are trying the hell to get out of the country so they have a brain drain on top.  Fun times for Russia.
 
2022-09-30 4:55:13 AM  

jjorsett: Counterfeit parts from Iran. What could possibly go wrong there?


Iranians are technologically adept, for the most part. Russia, not so much.

And subby, a plane can't fall out of the sky if it never leaves the ground.
 
2022-09-30 5:06:04 AM  

drxym: Even Russia's domestic aircraft manufacturing must be heavily reliant on Western support. Think of all the software and manufacturing equipment that is needed just to design and manufacture the plane let alone what goes in the plane itself. Even the computers they sit in front of to run their CAD software or the servers the files get stored on. Or some fancy CNC machine used to make some component. Anything and everything that came from the West will not receive support, supplies, updates, or bug fixes.

I bet this problem spans right across all high tech sectors in Russia. I suppose if they had a Stalinesque 5 year plan they might improve the situation but right now they're are screwed. Software will go bitrotten, machines will break, parts, spares and machinery will run out. They'll have to resort to hacking, bodging, counterfeit parts and horrific shortcuts just to keep going.

On top of that all the smart people who don't want to get shot are trying the hell to get out of the country so they have a brain drain on top.  Fun times for Russia.


That can't even make ball bearings, or barrels for their arty. Start removing critical components from the supply chain, and everything collapses. Remember that nordstream turbine? Hell, even their oil industry is not self sufficient.  See Venezuela for example.

If they want to fark around and find out, they will find out that they are in the stone age.
 
2022-09-30 5:10:49 AM  
Orcs.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1575760583651373061
 
2022-09-30 6:25:10 AM  

Lsherm: For a brief moment it looked like the world was going to put away petty differences and get along in the interest of global economic progress. Now it looks like I'll probably live long enough to see another Cold War, except with a more powerful China, a weak but still nuclear armed Russia, and a batshiat insane US. Still, I've seen a variation of this film before.

Maybe they'll bring back the nuclear drills like the old days!


China's declining demography means it's royally boned, right now it's as powerful as it's going to get. pretty much everything it needs comes via the indian ocean and through the straights of Malacca.
a few task forces favorited!ed way out of reach of its mostly green water navy and it withers on the vine within a few months.
 
2022-09-30 6:33:11 AM  

Unsung_Hero: I believe Russia no longer has the culture required to maintain a technological society.  Kleptocracy is the way, and it is far too inefficient a model to function for long unless propped up from outside.  When everyone's primary focus is to steal what they can because anything else means losing out, and when everyone's secondary focus is keeping their head down so they're not noticed and punished by the state... you're not going to get a lot of industrious or inventive people.  And the state will find that threats and beatings don't improve things much.

They're going to regress technologically back to whatever level can be sustained by individuals and the resources generally available to average people.  So maybe early-to-mid 20th century?  That plus whatever can be smuggled in.


Plus Ukraine was the source of most of their technological products back when they were the USSR. They can't even make consistent steel now, much less the products from that steel.
 
2022-09-30 8:29:06 AM  

Unsung_Hero: They're going to regress technologically back to whatever level can be sustained by individuals and the resources generally available to average people. So maybe early-to-mid 20th century? That plus whatever can be smuggled in.


And even in the USSR days, they relied extensively on copying, buying, or stealing western tech. They decided in 1969 that they could progress faster by doing so instead of developing their own indigenous computers (Elbrus being the exception). Soviet mainframes were basically IBM 360 clones, and minis were PDP-11 clones. This ended up with the odd result that many Soviet home computers were PDP-11-alikes, even as DEC was flailing and failing in the western PC market.

Of course, the entire east bloc did this sort of thing - there were East German and Romanian Z80 clones as well.

But now? Kleptocracy has robbed Russia of resources and funds needed to build high tech, and driven out many of their brightest minds, even as they sacrifice wave upon wave of soldiers and vast amounts of money and equipment on one man's vanity quest. Good luck rebuilding that industrial base when you sent a generation off to the meat grinder. It's a real WTF to realize that they've lost as many soldiers in little over six months, as we did in all of our Vietnam f*ckery and finding out.
 
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