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(NYPost)   Roger Maris Jr. steps up to the plate, says 'clean' Aaron Judge will be a real homer champ in the years to come   (nypost.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, New York Yankees, Sammy Sosa, Home run, Mark McGwire, Babe Ruth, Roger Maris, Roger Maris Jr., Yankee Stadium  
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339 clicks; posted to Sports » on 29 Sep 2022 at 8:01 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



37 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-09-29 7:49:16 AM  
Didn't knows Roger Maris was into blood work
 
2022-09-29 8:28:11 AM  
The guy who missed that home run ball is going to need therapy.
 
2022-09-29 8:35:51 AM  
I wonder how many "greenies"Maris took the year he set his record.
 
2022-09-29 9:19:09 AM  

Snapper Carr: I wonder how many "greenies"Maris took the year he set his record.


Yep.  Plenty of record holders and HoFers took things that are now considered PEDs -- even Hank Aaron, who admitted in his autobiography that he took speed during his career.  I've seen past debates on the Sports tab about how speed isn't the same as HGH or steroids (which is absolutely true), but it's semantics.  They're all banned substances, treated equally according to MLB's drug policy.

I wouldn't think it appropriate for baseball to kick a ton of people out of the Hall, or invalidate every record prior to the existence of the current drug policy, but the whole debate on what record is and isn't legit is bullsh*t.
 
2022-09-29 9:23:58 AM  
Snapper Carr I wonder how many "greenies"Maris took the year he set his record.

The first time I saw them discussed was when I read Ball Four and I'm sure they were available long before 1969.  I think Maris was probably helped a bit by expansion in 1961 along with a few extra games.

He had a great year in 1960 though too.  I don't know if he used anything but it he certainly had a good four or five year run.
 
2022-09-29 9:24:55 AM  
but the whole debate on what record is and isn't legit is bullsh*t.

this. it's a way for sportswriters to settle scores and prop up players they personally like.
 
2022-09-29 9:25:37 AM  
Snapper Carr:

It's like hockey ignoring it's cocaine and gambling problems.


Look at all the guys around Gretzky orbit who have had issues.

Especially look at why his buddy Ed Mio and his business partners were denied a gaming licence to buy the Windsor Ontario horse track and slots, and the government just allowed them to go bankrupt and close instead.
 
151 [OhFark]
2022-09-29 9:37:48 AM  

AuralArgument: Snapper Carr:

It's like hockey ignoring it's cocaine and gambling problems.


Look at all the guys around Gretzky orbit who have had issues.

Especially look at why his buddy Ed Mio and his business partners were denied a gaming licence to buy the Windsor Ontario horse track and slots, and the government just allowed them to go bankrupt and close instead.


Hockey and cocaine? I don't buy it.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-29 9:41:04 AM  
ElwoodCuse:

Time machine time

Ok, let's form a new league taking one player of each team from each year of baseball from 1876 (NL) 1881 (AL)   Plus the leagues that formed because of the color line.

Let's give them today's
1. diet
2. Coaching ( film, drills etc )
3.  Medical treatments
4. Rules
5. Training
6. Basically everything a player of today has including stuff that is questionable.

Some players would flourish under these conditions.( Joe Jackson and the rest of the black sox would have never taken the dive, Roberto Clemente's plane would have made it to a landing spot etc)
 
2022-09-29 9:43:22 AM  
Can't forget this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_and_the_Spitter

Admitted cheater, and still elected to the HoF.
 
2022-09-29 9:46:53 AM  
From the 538 article: "Not to mention that at least the other two advantages at least made the game more interesting to watch. Segregation, if anything, made the game less interesting for fans out of mere spite. My main line? If you're going to get indignant about steroids - something that unambiguously made the game more interesting - at least have the decency to be just as indignant about letting those segregated records stand un-asterisked"

More interesting?  I suppose for about one year.  After that it was just depressing to learn about the extent of the problem.

At least he doesn't sugar coat anything.  He's just an apologist for players using PEDs.  Baseball certainly would have been better prior to 1947 if it had integrated but it's silly to suggest the quality of play was not high in those early years.  It's not something that can really be measured.  Suggesting nothing counts before integration is dumb enough but to make that suggestion as a way of excusing the worst actors of the steroid era is just monumentally stupid.
 
2022-09-29 9:50:26 AM  

Wave Of Anal Fury: Snapper Carr: I wonder how many "greenies"Maris took the year he set his record.

Yep.  Plenty of record holders and HoFers took things that are now considered PEDs -- even Hank Aaron, who admitted in his autobiography that he took speed during his career.  I've seen past debates on the Sports tab about how speed isn't the same as HGH or steroids (which is absolutely true), but it's semantics.  They're all banned substances, treated equally according to MLB's drug policy.

I wouldn't think it appropriate for baseball to kick a ton of people out of the Hall, or invalidate every record prior to the existence of the current drug policy, but the whole debate on what record is and isn't legit is bullsh*t.


The 56-game hitting streak is legit.  A career with 4,256 hits is legit and Hall of Fame worthy.  The 73-home rum season is not legitimate, since it was reached with the help of chemicals and hormones, while the other two were achieved with skill.

It is worth noting that Aaron Judge hit his 61st homer in Yankees game #155.  So it holds that no American League player has been able to beat the Babe in 154 games, but can only tie him.
 
2022-09-29 9:57:01 AM  
I'd like to see stats for the entire span of players for a given season. What was the norm for that year. Who exceeded it. By how much. Etc. I imagine there'd be very few true outliers. Wayne Gretzky. Usain Bolt. Wilt Chamberlain. Katie Ledecky. People like that.
 
2022-09-29 9:58:52 AM  

bluorangefyre: The 56-game hitting streak is legit.  A career with 4,256 hits is legit and Hall of Fame worthy.  The 73-home rum season is not legitimate, since it was reached with the help of chemicals and hormones, while the other two were achieved with skill.


No one knows with absolute certainty if the first is true because DiMaggio is dead.  The only one who knows if the second is true is Rose, and as a long-time admitted liar, anything he says is suspect.  Both of them could have been taking speed during their careers, which would make their records just as illegitimate as the one held by Bonds.

That's the thing -- no one knows for sure, which is why the whole "this record is legit but that one isn't" debate is bullsh*t.
 
2022-09-29 10:03:30 AM  

yakmans_dad: I'd like to see stats for the entire span of players for a given season. What was the norm for that year. Who exceeded it. By how much. Etc. I imagine there'd be very few true outliers. Wayne Gretzky. Usain Bolt. Wilt Chamberlain. Katie Ledecky. People like that.


There are stats available right now that can tell you that: WAR, adjusted OPS+, adjusted ERA+...
 
2022-09-29 10:04:35 AM  
Baseball whataboutism, just what the sport needs.

When a longstanding record is not just beaten but crushed, then beaten again, then crushed again by guys who somehow added 25 pounds of muscle in a year or two, plus turning the sport into home run derby, I think the problem was more serious than "Hey, did you know in the old days some guys took amphetamines?"
 
2022-09-29 10:31:18 AM  

Wave Of Anal Fury: The only one who knows if the second is true is Rose, and as a long-time admitted liar, anything he says is suspect.


Anyone who thinks Pete Flippin' Rose, perhaps the most unrepentant competitive asshole in all of sports at the time, wouldn't do literally every single thing he could (legal, illegal, and gray area) to reach that record is either naive or lying to themselves.
 
2022-09-29 10:41:04 AM  

bluorangefyre: Wave Of Anal Fury: Snapper Carr: I wonder how many "greenies"Maris took the year he set his record.

Yep.  Plenty of record holders and HoFers took things that are now considered PEDs -- even Hank Aaron, who admitted in his autobiography that he took speed during his career.  I've seen past debates on the Sports tab about how speed isn't the same as HGH or steroids (which is absolutely true), but it's semantics.  They're all banned substances, treated equally according to MLB's drug policy.

I wouldn't think it appropriate for baseball to kick a ton of people out of the Hall, or invalidate every record prior to the existence of the current drug policy, but the whole debate on what record is and isn't legit is bullsh*t.

The 56-game hitting streak is legit.  A career with 4,256 hits is legit and Hall of Fame worthy.  The 73-home rum season is not legitimate, since it was reached with the help of chemicals and hormones, while the other two were achieved with skill.

It is worth noting that Aaron Judge hit his 61st homer in Yankees game #155.  So it holds that no American League player has been able to beat the Babe in 154 games, but can only tie him.


Why did you not point out Ty Cobb's hiats record has not been beat in 13,103 plate appearances? Why are Rose's hiats allowed to span more games but Judge's HR record is not?
 
2022-09-29 10:45:22 AM  

Joe_diGriz: Wave Of Anal Fury: The only one who knows if the second is true is Rose, and as a long-time admitted liar, anything he says is suspect.

Anyone who thinks Pete Flippin' Rose, perhaps the most unrepentant competitive asshole in all of sports at the time, wouldn't do literally every single thing he could (legal, illegal, and gray area) to reach that record is either naive or lying to themselves.


To be fair, he was only competitive when he had money on the line. And sometimes the competitive part was winning his bet and not the game.
 
2022-09-29 10:53:35 AM  

bluorangefyre: Wave Of Anal Fury: Snapper Carr: I wonder how many "greenies"Maris took the year he set his record.

Yep.  Plenty of record holders and HoFers took things that are now considered PEDs -- even Hank Aaron, who admitted in his autobiography that he took speed during his career.  I've seen past debates on the Sports tab about how speed isn't the same as HGH or steroids (which is absolutely true), but it's semantics.  They're all banned substances, treated equally according to MLB's drug policy.

I wouldn't think it appropriate for baseball to kick a ton of people out of the Hall, or invalidate every record prior to the existence of the current drug policy, but the whole debate on what record is and isn't legit is bullsh*t.

The 56-game hitting streak is legit.  A career with 4,256 hits is legit and Hall of Fame worthy.  The 73-home rum season is not legitimate, since it was reached with the help of chemicals and hormones, while the other two were achieved with skill.

It is worth noting that Aaron Judge hit his 61st homer in Yankees game #155.  So it holds that no American League player has been able to beat the Babe in 154 games, but can only tie him.


If there is no skill involved why is Barry Bonds the only one to hit 73? Shouldn't every player that juiced hit 70+?
 
2022-09-29 10:56:17 AM  
just because Barry Bonds is a dickhead doesn't mean you get to ignore basic math. "who is better" is subjective. "who hit the most home runs" is not. take your "well this kind of cheating is ok but this kind isn't" and fark off

what if the Yankees are stealing signs again? oops another record we have to "not count". or is that ok because sign stealing isn't bad (just ask the Astros and their non-punishment)
 
2022-09-29 10:56:19 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: To be fair, he was only competitive when he had money on the line.


Tell that to Ray Fosse. Unless you think Pete had money on an All-Star game which... you know what, I'm not going to argue against that, knowing him.
 
2022-09-29 11:08:02 AM  

tedduque: bluorangefyre: Wave Of Anal Fury: Snapper Carr: I wonder how many "greenies"Maris took the year he set his record.

Yep.  Plenty of record holders and HoFers took things that are now considered PEDs -- even Hank Aaron, who admitted in his autobiography that he took speed during his career.  I've seen past debates on the Sports tab about how speed isn't the same as HGH or steroids (which is absolutely true), but it's semantics.  They're all banned substances, treated equally according to MLB's drug policy.

I wouldn't think it appropriate for baseball to kick a ton of people out of the Hall, or invalidate every record prior to the existence of the current drug policy, but the whole debate on what record is and isn't legit is bullsh*t.

The 56-game hitting streak is legit.  A career with 4,256 hits is legit and Hall of Fame worthy.  The 73-home rum season is not legitimate, since it was reached with the help of chemicals and hormones, while the other two were achieved with skill.

It is worth noting that Aaron Judge hit his 61st homer in Yankees game #155.  So it holds that no American League player has been able to beat the Babe in 154 games, but can only tie him.

Why did you not point out Ty Cobb's hiats record has not been beat in 13,103 plate appearances? Why are Rose's hiats allowed to span more games but Judge's HR record is not?


I was applying the logic used in 1961.
 
2022-09-29 11:12:27 AM  

Joe_diGriz: Peter von Nostrand: To be fair, he was only competitive when he had money on the line.

Tell that to Ray Fosse. Unless you think Pete had money on an All-Star game which... you know what, I'm not going to argue against that, knowing him.


Nvm, my comment didn't come across right. Pete is an asshole, money or not involved.
 
2022-09-29 11:33:07 AM  

Hillbilly Jim: bluorangefyre: Wave Of Anal Fury: Snapper Carr: I wonder how many "greenies"Maris took the year he set his record.

Yep.  Plenty of record holders and HoFers took things that are now considered PEDs -- even Hank Aaron, who admitted in his autobiography that he took speed during his career.  I've seen past debates on the Sports tab about how speed isn't the same as HGH or steroids (which is absolutely true), but it's semantics.  They're all banned substances, treated equally according to MLB's drug policy.

I wouldn't think it appropriate for baseball to kick a ton of people out of the Hall, or invalidate every record prior to the existence of the current drug policy, but the whole debate on what record is and isn't legit is bullsh*t.

The 56-game hitting streak is legit.  A career with 4,256 hits is legit and Hall of Fame worthy.  The 73-home rum season is not legitimate, since it was reached with the help of chemicals and hormones, while the other two were achieved with skill.

It is worth noting that Aaron Judge hit his 61st homer in Yankees game #155.  So it holds that no American League player has been able to beat the Babe in 154 games, but can only tie him.

If there is no skill involved why is Barry Bonds the only one to hit 73? Shouldn't every player that juiced hit 70+?


Ozzie Canseco may have juiced just as much as Jose Canseco.
(probably not, he didn't play that long. Because he sucked)

There was a backup catcher on the Giants for a few years when Bonds was on his tear. Bobby Estellia or something. He showed up one season having bulked up massively. He was humongous. And he couldn't hit for squat.
 
2022-09-29 11:33:52 AM  

tedduque: bluorangefyre: Wave Of Anal Fury: Snapper Carr: I wonder how many "greenies"Maris took the year he set his record.

Yep.  Plenty of record holders and HoFers took things that are now considered PEDs -- even Hank Aaron, who admitted in his autobiography that he took speed during his career.  I've seen past debates on the Sports tab about how speed isn't the same as HGH or steroids (which is absolutely true), but it's semantics.  They're all banned substances, treated equally according to MLB's drug policy.

I wouldn't think it appropriate for baseball to kick a ton of people out of the Hall, or invalidate every record prior to the existence of the current drug policy, but the whole debate on what record is and isn't legit is bullsh*t.

The 56-game hitting streak is legit.  A career with 4,256 hits is legit and Hall of Fame worthy.  The 73-home rum season is not legitimate, since it was reached with the help of chemicals and hormones, while the other two were achieved with skill.

It is worth noting that Aaron Judge hit his 61st homer in Yankees game #155.  So it holds that no American League player has been able to beat the Babe in 154 games, but can only tie him.

Why did you not point out Ty Cobb's hiats record has not been beat in 13,103 plate appearances? Why are Rose's hiats allowed to span more games but Judge's HR record is not?


The whole "asterisk" thing started based on Maris not beating Ruth in 154 games. That is why it would be brought up here.
 
2022-09-29 11:43:08 AM  

dywed88: tedduque: bluorangefyre: Wave Of Anal Fury: Snapper Carr: I wonder how many "greenies"Maris took the year he set his record.

Yep.  Plenty of record holders and HoFers took things that are now considered PEDs -- even Hank Aaron, who admitted in his autobiography that he took speed during his career.  I've seen past debates on the Sports tab about how speed isn't the same as HGH or steroids (which is absolutely true), but it's semantics.  They're all banned substances, treated equally according to MLB's drug policy.

I wouldn't think it appropriate for baseball to kick a ton of people out of the Hall, or invalidate every record prior to the existence of the current drug policy, but the whole debate on what record is and isn't legit is bullsh*t.

The 56-game hitting streak is legit.  A career with 4,256 hits is legit and Hall of Fame worthy.  The 73-home rum season is not legitimate, since it was reached with the help of chemicals and hormones, while the other two were achieved with skill.

It is worth noting that Aaron Judge hit his 61st homer in Yankees game #155.  So it holds that no American League player has been able to beat the Babe in 154 games, but can only tie him.

Why did you not point out Ty Cobb's hiats record has not been beat in 13,103 plate appearances? Why are Rose's hiats allowed to span more games but Judge's HR record is not?

The whole "asterisk" thing started based on Maris not beating Ruth in 154 games. That is why it would be brought up here.


Sorry accidentally hit to post.

If you had asked Frick your question, I suspect his response would be "Longevity is a part of a career record"

But we all know that it was Frick not wanting the upstart Maris overshadowing the greatest player of all time. If Mantle had broken the record in game 162, I am absolutely certain he would not have said the same.
 
2022-09-29 12:36:12 PM  
bluorangefyre:

The bonds/McGuire era I'd say a huge percentage was juicing.


fark it but it counts towards the records cause the MLB didn't go back and switch all the wins of teams with juicing players to losses or no contests like the tour de France.
 
2022-09-29 12:37:48 PM  
Joe_diGriz:

Would anyone be surprised that he was the guy who introduced steroids to baseball.

To become charlie hustle.
 
2022-09-29 12:40:03 PM  
ElwoodCuse:

Every sport has its eras that each has it's own type of cheating.

HoF stuff is mutual masturbation between players and the media. It why it's a hall of fame and not a hall of champions, records and award winners
 
2022-09-29 12:41:53 PM  
dywed88:

Blame the sports writers that are long dead for this one *


* Particularly the ones who covered the sport from 1920's-1960's
 
2022-09-29 12:46:45 PM  

AuralArgument: dywed88:

Blame the sports writers that are long dead for this one *


* Particularly the ones who covered the sport from 1920's-1960's


No, I will blame the Commissioner of Baseball (that is long dead) who didn't want some upstart getting the credit for beating his buddy and made it official. Although, technically he was a sportswriter before that.
 
2022-09-29 12:47:46 PM  

AuralArgument: bluorangefyre:

The bonds/McGuire era I'd say a huge percentage was juicing.


fark it but it counts towards the records cause the MLB didn't go back and switch all the wins of teams with juicing players to losses or no contests like the tour de France.


Sure, it counts towards the records. That doesn't mean individuals have to respect them if they don't want to.
 
2022-09-29 12:57:16 PM  
You will never be able to separate cheating from sports and you shouldn't even try.

/Forget it, Jake, it's baseball.
 
2022-09-29 2:11:42 PM  
dywed88:

Exactly
 
2022-09-29 3:42:35 PM  

dywed88: tedduque: bluorangefyre:
The 56-game hitting streak is legit.  A career with 4,256 hits is legit and Hall of Fame worthy.  The 73-home rum season is not legitimate, since it was reached with the help of chemicals and hormones, while the other two were achieved with skill.

It is worth noting that Aaron Judge hit his 61st homer in Yankees game #155.  So it holds that no American League player has been able to beat the Babe in 154 games, but can only tie him.

Why did you not point out Ty Cobb's hiats record has not been beat in 13,103 plate appearances? Why are Rose's hiats allowed to span more games but Judge's HR record is not?

The whole "asterisk" thing started based on Maris not beating Ruth in 154 games. That is why it would be brought up here.


My sarcasm detection must be WAY off. I'm familiar with 61*. I did not read the post as a sarcastic nod to that. It looked like it really was trying to indicate which records are legit and which ones are records, but different records.
 
2022-09-30 2:19:28 PM  
I'm of the opinion that in baseball "if you ain't cheating, you ain't playing." And the reason it works in baseball is because everybody in the sport is cheating, all the time. And I kind of love that about it.
 
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