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(Breaking Defense)   I dunno what those commies are up to but I can tell you if you don't approve yet another next gen fighter program we're all gonna be singing "March of the Volunteers" this time next year   (breakingdefense.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, F-15 Eagle, F-22 Raptor, United States Air Force, Soviet Air Forces, Air Combat Command, sixth-generation fighter, Battle of Britain, US Air Force  
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1774 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Sep 2022 at 5:35 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-09-27 1:22:36 PM  
I have an idea. How about this time we let them do the development and designing, then we steal the plans from them, and PROFIT?
 
2022-09-27 1:56:58 PM  
Why are we still talking about building air superiority platforms with seats?
 
2022-09-27 3:12:33 PM  

snocone: I have an idea. How about this time we let them do the development and designing, then we steal the plans from them, and PROFIT?


This opinion brought to you by someone who has never actually examined Chinese-designed complex machinery.

/imagine a pipe cutter built so that under load the torque is primarily applied perpendicularly to the four zinc screws used to size the cutter to the pipe.
 
2022-09-27 5:17:41 PM  
So is Russian and we know how great their shiat works.
 
2022-09-27 5:37:28 PM  
Why don't we just use the F-35?
 
2022-09-27 5:37:45 PM  
How 'bout we not give a ahit for once?
 
2022-09-27 5:39:13 PM  
What does 6th gen even mean? Is it literally invisible?

/dnrtfa
 
2022-09-27 5:40:40 PM  

Ecliptic: What does 6th gen even mean? Is it literally invisible?

/dnrtfa


Yeah can anyone explain 6th gen for people who do not care about military planes?
 
2022-09-27 5:41:48 PM  
Piss away trillions and they want more. No thanks.
 
2022-09-27 5:42:02 PM  

Ecliptic: What does 6th gen even mean? Is it literally invisible?

/dnrtfa


Flies at Warp speed
 
2022-09-27 5:42:25 PM  

mattj1984: Ecliptic: What does 6th gen even mean? Is it literally invisible?

/dnrtfa

Yeah can anyone explain 6th gen for people who do not care about military planes?


It's the same as gen 5 but with larger cup holders.
 
2022-09-27 5:43:19 PM  

Hubris Boy: Why are we still talking about building air superiority platforms with seats?


Also this. Drones are the way to go
 
2022-09-27 5:43:46 PM  
They should go all electric. They could have flying recharging stations.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-27 5:44:10 PM  

Hubris Boy: Why are we still talking about building air superiority platforms with seats?


Two words that I've seen flashing on countless screens, "Lost Link." And that was during a permissive air campaign with US air superiority.
 
2022-09-27 5:44:32 PM  
We SHOULD have the most advanced fighters.  However, we don't need $1T worth of them.  Develop a handful to decimate the enemy and then send in the latest and greatest F16 and F18s which are WAAAYYYYYYY cheaper to operate (and as if not more effective after the enemy air defenses are toast).
 
2022-09-27 5:47:35 PM  
Future is with remote operated stealth craft to deliver munitions.  If you remove the Pilot and support for them.  you can have a smaller cheaper craft that can experience higher G-forces
 
2022-09-27 5:48:08 PM  

Ecliptic: What does 6th gen even mean? Is it literally invisible?

/dnrtfa


It means you've been cloning for as much as two years and should consider restarting from seeds to improve disease and pest resistance.
 
2022-09-27 5:48:57 PM  

mattj1984: Ecliptic: What does 6th gen even mean? Is it literally invisible?

/dnrtfa

Yeah can anyone explain 6th gen for people who do not care about military planes?


Each gen is a measurement of the number of vacation homes defense contractor CEOs will be able to buy from the fighter's development and production.
 
2022-09-27 5:50:18 PM  
Somebody on some tv show somewhere was mentioning drones patched into a mini network with human piloted jet coordinating drone recon and long range weapon deployment.

It sounds like an interesting concept. But more futurology then practicality at the moment.
 
2022-09-27 5:53:49 PM  
We have yet to reach full rate production of the F-35. What this means is that the oversight by congress has not been fully granted. Now we're going to do this again and have limited oversight. All citizens should demand the proper oversight of these trillion dollar programs.
 
2022-09-27 5:53:51 PM  

Sabreace22: Hubris Boy: Why are we still talking about building air superiority platforms with seats?

Two words that I've seen flashing on countless screens, "Lost Link." And that was during a permissive air campaign with US air superiority.


Yeah, but autonomous killbots don't have that problem.

/They have some other problems
//Especially once we set up the robot factories.
///But don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
 
2022-09-27 5:56:59 PM  

mattj1984: Ecliptic: What does 6th gen even mean? Is it literally invisible?

/dnrtfa

Yeah can anyone explain 6th gen for people who do not care about military planes?


There's extra money and a hummer included with each one!
 
2022-09-27 5:57:50 PM  
A Sixth Gen Fighter would basically be something out a Dan Brown Old Dog series. It would be a electronic warfare platform with a network of drones and smart weapons it uses to kill entire countries.
 
2022-09-27 5:57:57 PM  

mattj1984: Ecliptic: What does 6th gen even mean? Is it literally invisible?

/dnrtfa

Yeah can anyone explain 6th gen for people who do not care about military planes?


Invisible and shoots bees at Mach 3 from the nose.
 
2022-09-27 5:59:24 PM  

mattj1984: Ecliptic: What does 6th gen even mean? Is it literally invisible?

/dnrtfa

Yeah can anyone explain 6th gen for people who do not care about military planes?


It means a extra few trillion in the defense budget since we need to upgrade from the severely outdated sixteen month old Gen 5.
 
2022-09-27 5:59:32 PM  

sleze: We SHOULD have the most advanced fighters.  However, we don't need $1T worth of them.  Develop a handful to decimate the enemy and then send in the latest and greatest F16 and F18s which are WAAAYYYYYYY cheaper to operate (and as if not more effective after the enemy air defenses are toast).


The 1T isn't from the volume, as much as the system development, supply chain, and design. The more you produce, the cheaper they go. Except we load a butt ton of options into thee platforms, marine versions, seal versions, airforce versions, versions for allies we like, versions for allies we don't like.  Options to carry anything from bb-guns to the MOAB to your angry momma as ordinance.  Operate and Maintain, worldwide, with constant upgrades of capabilities.

Or you can go the russian way... lob a few 100k of your poorest and most ignorant, into a neighboring territory, and continually unload 1940's technology on them while threatening to blow everyone up with your nuke that may or may not work, and might just be stuffed with funny string.
 
2022-09-27 6:00:00 PM  
This is one of those times to drop parallel warfare.  These aircraft are so expensive now that we should definitely be at least equally looking at cheap ways to defeat them without using similar aircraft.

I mean.  We already know several.  They're just not operationally feasible yet, at least not in unclassified development.  But we know they're plausible, and some of them are also defense against some kinds of ballistic weapons, warships, etc.

Of course, part of the reason we always greenlight these insanely expensive programs is because they're partly shams to hide black box spending.  That's not gonna stop on a dime (or even a billion dollars), either.
 
2022-09-27 6:02:32 PM  
If China is building some sort of super fighter, shouldn't we be building some sort of super anti-aircraft system that can shoot down anything? It would be a lot cheaper than building a wholly new fighter. Be able to shoot down all their fighters with a ground based system and destroy their anti-aircraft systems with drones or missiles and then there's no need for a new multi-billion dollar fighter; the F-15 and F-16 will then be enough.
 
2022-09-27 6:05:09 PM  
The last US fighter to engage in a dogfight was the F-14. That was in 1985. To this day it remains the most successful fighter ever built with over 100 kills and zero losses.

There was an incident in Gulf War I where a couple F-16s downed some Iraqi Migs while on a recon run but that was from long range and the pilots didn't even know they were there. The onboard computers did all the work, it was hardly a dogfight.

Point is the question of air superiority is settled. The Unitrd States won. No one has even wanted to even think of challenging the F-18, F-22, or the boondoggle that is the F-35.

It would take decades for any other country to match the US in air power. It's not just foolish, it's a waste of money.

Much like the Russians the Chinese like to lie about their military prowess. America spent 50 years developing terrifying weapons systems to match an enemy who really didn't exist. The worst thing China can do is repeat that mistake.

Sure, go ahead. Make shiat up about an imaginary 6th gen fighter. Then watch America develop a very REAL 7th gen one just for funsies.
 
2022-09-27 6:08:25 PM  

Ishkur: The last US fighter to engage in a dogfight was the F-14. That was in 1985. To this day it remains the most successful fighter ever built with over 100 kills and zero losses.

There was an incident in Gulf War I where a couple F-16s downed some Iraqi Migs while on a recon run but that was from long range and the pilots didn't even know they were there. The onboard computers did all the work, it was hardly a dogfight.

Point is the question of air superiority is settled. The Unitrd States won. No one has even wanted to even think of challenging the F-18, F-22, or the boondoggle that is the F-35.

It would take decades for any other country to match the US in air power. It's not just foolish, it's a waste of money.

Much like the Russians the Chinese like to lie about their military prowess. America spent 50 years developing terrifying weapons systems to match an enemy who really didn't exist. The worst thing China can do is repeat that mistake.

Sure, go ahead. Make shiat up about an imaginary 6th gen fighter. Then watch America develop a very REAL 7th gen one just for funsies.


One of the things to think about, is that to keep the engineering talent, logistics talent, physics talent, you sorta have to have a constant pipeline of research/ new things to build.. you can't really stop building out a program for even 20 years, of you lose a generation of talent.

And that's the secret --all institutions, companies and capabilities, are built on mind share an passionate people engaged, usually for a lifetime.
 
2022-09-27 6:08:54 PM  

Ecliptic: What does 6th gen even mean? Is it literally invisible?

/dnrtfa


It pays for yachts and Bentleys for the 6th generation of defense contractors.
 
2022-09-27 6:09:38 PM  
Have any of their "super special" fighters EVER flown? No? Maybe it is because they're producing trash for propaganda?
 
2022-09-27 6:09:59 PM  
Oh noes
A fighter gap we can't have that

It'd be liking having a bomber gap or a missile gap ir a mineshaft gap
 
2022-09-27 6:10:09 PM  

Hubris Boy: Why are we still talking about building air superiority platforms with seats?


This guy gets it.
 
2022-09-27 6:10:50 PM  

Muta: Why don't we just use the F-35?


That's only a fifth generation fighter, it's already outta date! We're talking sixth gen here
 
2022-09-27 6:11:59 PM  

mattj1984: Ecliptic: What does 6th gen even mean? Is it literally invisible?

/dnrtfa

Yeah can anyone explain 6th gen for people who do not care about military planes?


Vaporware used by the military industrial complex in order to stoke fears of not keeping up with adversarial nations.
 
2022-09-27 6:15:03 PM  

covalesj: The 1T isn't from the volume, as much as the system development, supply chain, and design. The more you produce, the cheaper they go. Except we load a butt ton of options into thee platforms, marine versions, seal versions, airforce versions, versions for allies we like, versions for allies we don't like. Options to carry anything from bb-guns to the MOAB to your angry momma as ordinance. Operate and Maintain, worldwide, with constant upgrades of capabilities.


This.

The F-35 is not as bad or as expensive as people think it is, especially considering it has an expected product lifeline extending until 2045. That brings the AAV down considerably. It's a loss leader now. It won't be 20 years from now.
 
2022-09-27 6:17:19 PM  

kmgenesis23: How 'bout we not give a ahit for once?


Because the military industrial complex needs more money.
 
2022-09-27 6:19:53 PM  

covalesj: One of the things to think about, is that to keep the engineering talent, logistics talent, physics talent, you sorta have to have a constant pipeline of research/ new things to build.. you can't really stop building out a program for even 20 years, of you lose a generation of talent.


I can see you've been watching Perun's videos too ; )
 
2022-09-27 6:21:03 PM  
Are China's armed forces as Potemkin-like as Russia's?
 
2022-09-27 6:22:09 PM  

Meatsim1: Muta: Why don't we just use the F-35?

That's only a fifth generation fighter, it's already outta date! We're talking sixth gen here


Throw that shiat in the Goodwill pile with your wide ties.
 
2022-09-27 6:22:20 PM  
What, a guy whose job requires him to push for more monetary requisitions, and who stands to gain tremendously in terms of Kickbacks and board positions when he chooses to retire if this goes through, suggesting that they need to spend or billions and trillions? Color. Me. Shock
 
2022-09-27 6:25:20 PM  
You gotta get gen 6 lighters; they have block chain!
 
2022-09-27 6:26:03 PM  

Ecliptic: What does 6th gen even mean? Is it literally invisible?

/dnrtfa


matter-phasing technology, bruh
 
2022-09-27 6:26:26 PM  

Ishkur: Sure, go ahead. Make shiat up about an imaginary 6th gen fighter. Then watch America develop a very REAL 7th gen one just for funsies.


Fark it, we're doing seven generations.
 
2022-09-27 6:42:47 PM  
But we can't afford to nationalize healthcare or cancel education debt.
 
2022-09-27 6:43:52 PM  
What is the explanation for the continuing obsession with having superior manned fighter aircraft when it's literally impossible that manned fighter aircraft are going to be a worthwhile factor in any war after about 2035?
 
2022-09-27 6:44:02 PM  

iheartscotch: Have any of their "super special" fighters EVER flown? No? Maybe it is because they're producing trash for propaganda?


The J-20 first flew a decade ago and had been in service for 5 years.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-20
 
2022-09-27 6:45:31 PM  

Hubris Boy: Why are we still talking about building air superiority platforms with seats?


Sorry, you scooped me bigtime and I didn't notice.
 
2022-09-27 6:46:56 PM  

ryant123: What is the explanation for the continuing obsession with having superior manned fighter aircraft when it's literally impossible that manned fighter aircraft are going to be a worthwhile factor in any war after about 2035?


They look cool and cost a lot of money which means the public supports it and defense contractors can get really rich off it.

Speaking of which have you seen the new Top Gun?
 
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