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(Big Think)   No, you can't just say that it's General Relativity for gravity and the Standard Model for everything else. There has to be more to physics than that   (bigthink.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, General relativity, Photon, Particle physics, Fundamental interaction, Quantum mechanics, Quantum field theory, Standard Model, quantum field theory  
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714 clicks; posted to STEM » on 27 Sep 2022 at 9:42 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



21 Comments     (+0 »)
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2022-09-27 10:53:10 AM  
Prove that the two cannot coexist
 
2022-09-27 10:57:47 AM  
IMHO, I believe I know how...

Working on the theory, math and paperwork.
Takes time and mind.

So far, no one has said I'm crazy or wrong,
Of all the pros and scientists I've talked to.
Mostly they just say, "whoa" effectively and redirect me to the next scientist up a level.

Think I got it.
TBD...
 
2022-09-27 10:59:15 AM  
I figured people wouldn't just fall in to the whole general relativity thing that easily. People still do have standards after all.
 
2022-09-27 11:33:12 AM  
there's absolutely no reason why anything HAS to be a certain way.  The goal is to discover how things are, not have emotional reactions to the current best description.
 
2022-09-27 12:03:56 PM  
Essentially what this dumbass article says is that nothing has really changed in this regard for over 50 years. Okay so-called "big think", we appreciate the timely update on science for the hard-of-thinking. And the next time I meet a horrid know-it-all without substantial background knowledge who's cherry-picking shiny facts to try and sound intelligent at a party, I'll know who to blame for it.
 
2022-09-27 1:06:52 PM  

Concrete Donkey: Prove that the two cannot coexist


OK, I'll need about 15 minutes of your time to do it robustly, assuming you have some post-graduate familiarity with GR and QFT because a proper understanding, not a pop-science one, of black hole physics is going to be involved. And we're probably going to be discarding unitarity I'm afraid.
 
2022-09-27 1:08:35 PM  

Stephen_Falken: Essentially what this dumbass article says is...


So it's the usual big stink article then? Either some mod who loves this sight is greening his own links, or Fark is getting a kickback for the referrals. I can't think of another reason for the links.
 
2022-09-27 1:10:47 PM  
Wolfran will get it--accidentally--using iterative models based on a simple set of rules.
 
2022-09-27 1:14:58 PM  
It's 'relatively' obvious something is missing when there are indefinable terms like 'dark matter' and 'dark energy' involved.
 
2022-09-27 1:22:12 PM  

Concrete Donkey: Prove that the two cannot coexist


General relativity requires that matter and energy be described as classical fields. The Standard Model requires them to be quantum fields. They're not even mathematically comparable. You have to make ad-hoc approximations (e.g., averaging quantum fields) in order for them to "talk" to each other at all.
 
2022-09-27 1:24:51 PM  

stamped human bacon: It's 'relatively' obvious something is missing when there are indefinable terms like 'dark matter' and 'dark energy' involved.


That doesn't have anything to do with it. General relativity and quantum field theory are still incompatible with each other regardless of whether dark matter or dark energy exists.
 
2022-09-27 1:34:53 PM  

Ambitwistor: Concrete Donkey: Prove that the two cannot coexist

General relativity requires that matter and energy be described as classical fields. The Standard Model requires them to be quantum fields. They're not even mathematically comparable. You have to make ad-hoc approximations (e.g., averaging quantum fields) in order for them to "talk" to each other at all.


There is also the problem of background dependence (which, as I type that, I realize is entwined with your point). Also, none of our usual tricks for quantizing gravity seem to work (because gravitons are self-interacting, simplistically speaking). And of course the black hole paradox, which deep down is really a problem with reversibility and unitarity.

So whatever the unified theory is, it requires at the very least some new component that is present in neither; or replacing one or both with something more comprehensive (but which approximates to the existing theory under conditions we've explored so far).
 
2022-09-27 1:36:08 PM  

backhand.slap.of.reason: Wolfran will get it--accidentally--using iterative models based on a simple set of rules.


Have you read the book? Hundreds and hundreds of pages of Game of Life, and not one example of how even a trivial physical law emerges. He is beyond question a brilliant man, but he is tilting at windmills on this one.
 
2022-09-27 2:00:56 PM  

Ambitwistor: stamped human bacon: It's 'relatively' obvious something is missing when there are indefinable terms like 'dark matter' and 'dark energy' involved.

That doesn't have anything to do with it. General relativity and quantum field theory are still incompatible with each other regardless of whether dark matter or dark energy exists.


There's little question dark matter and dark energy exist and they're both all around us which means ignoring two indefinable yet observable variables affecting space-time. Seems unwise.
 
2022-09-27 2:25:05 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-27 2:28:38 PM  

Ambitwistor: stamped human bacon: It's 'relatively' obvious something is missing when there are indefinable terms like 'dark matter' and 'dark energy' involved.

That doesn't have anything to do with it. General relativity and quantum field theory are still incompatible with each other regardless of whether dark matter or dark energy exists.


How the flying fark could you possibly state that as a fact when the greatest minds in the world have no idea what either of them are in any way?
 
2022-09-27 3:08:57 PM  

Concrete Donkey: Ambitwistor: stamped human bacon: It's 'relatively' obvious something is missing when there are indefinable terms like 'dark matter' and 'dark energy' involved.

That doesn't have anything to do with it. General relativity and quantum field theory are still incompatible with each other regardless of whether dark matter or dark energy exists.

How the flying fark could you possibly state that as a fact when the greatest minds in the world have no idea what either of them are in any way?


Because we know they exist by watching and measuring the rotation of galaxies (dark matter) and the accelerating expansion of the universe (dark energy).
 
2022-09-27 3:09:18 PM  

Concrete Donkey: Ambitwistor: stamped human bacon: It's 'relatively' obvious something is missing when there are indefinable terms like 'dark matter' and 'dark energy' involved.

That doesn't have anything to do with it. General relativity and quantum field theory are still incompatible with each other regardless of whether dark matter or dark energy exists.

How the flying fark could you possibly state that as a fact when the greatest minds in the world have no idea what either of them are in any way?


People often speak a little too generally in Fark threads. No reason to get excited.
 
2022-09-27 3:43:22 PM  

stamped human bacon: Ambitwistor: stamped human bacon: It's 'relatively' obvious something is missing when there are indefinable terms like 'dark matter' and 'dark energy' involved.

That doesn't have anything to do with it. General relativity and quantum field theory are still incompatible with each other regardless of whether dark matter or dark energy exists.

There's little question dark matter and dark energy exist and they're both all around us which means ignoring two indefinable yet observable variables affecting space-time. Seems unwise.


I didn't say we should ignore dark matter or dark energy.  I said that general relativity and quantum field theory are already incompatible before you even start talking about them.  From that, we would already know that something is missing (i.e., quantum gravity) even if we didn't know anything about dark matter or energy.
 
2022-09-27 7:35:26 PM  
The incompatibility of quantum mechanics and general relativity was known decades before dark matter or dark energy were proposed.
 
2022-09-28 5:12:37 AM  

Concrete Donkey: Prove that the two cannot coexist


Because there are certain scenarios where they predict completely opposite results.
 
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