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(The Hollywood Reporter)   Kevin Feige addresses the decision not to recast T'Challa   (hollywoodreporter.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Marvel Comics, Fantastic Four, Jack Kirby, Black Panther sequel Wakanda, Ryan Coogler's follow-up film, Chadwick Boseman's death, Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige, Iron Man  
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1044 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 27 Sep 2022 at 6:55 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-09-27 8:12:50 AM  
If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.
 
2022-09-27 8:36:19 AM  
So there's a script written from when they thought Bozeman would be there to play it.  It would be interesting if they used that script for a future episode of "What If?".  "What if T'Challa wasn't killed by the Atlanteans?"  (or whatever it is that they have kill him).  It would have to be a good voice actor plus some of that A.I. magic so it sounds like Bozeman, and they might have to get his family to agree to that.  But it would be a good addition to the universe, even if it's only a What If story.

Damn, I really really can't wait for BP2.  I need to see it opening night in a full house for the full pathos/revenge experience.
 
2022-09-27 8:37:07 AM  
According to Lego, the new Black Panther will fight against vaccinations and common sense.
 
2022-09-27 8:43:29 AM  

LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.


The Marvel franchise already recast a prominent black actor so I don't think that's it.
 
2022-09-27 8:53:38 AM  

odinsposse: LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.

The Marvel franchise already recast a prominent black actor so I don't think that's it.


Yes, but that was because he acted like an asshole, not because he died.

Huge difference between the foundations of each of those decisions.
 
2022-09-27 8:55:51 AM  

odinsposse: LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.

The Marvel franchise already recast a prominent black actor so I don't think that's it.


They've also written out prominent white actors either permanently or temporarily.
 
2022-09-27 9:02:42 AM  

odinsposse: LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.

The Marvel franchise already recast a prominent black actor so I don't think that's it.


This.

It's one thing to replace an actor due to unforeseen events. Rhodes and Banner are the two major ones who just glossed over (and even poked fun in She-Hulk) without beating the joke.

Chadwick Bozeman was both a huge impact on the MCU as Black Panther but also arguably as a black actor on the overall Hollywood culture. He was seen as a next level talent and had done some phenomenal roles before his untimely death.

He was T'Challa. Putting someone else in would have been both awkward and disrespectful to the character and his co-stars. I'm happy they did not recast to allow for mourning, while also having a new separate Black Panther character as a worthy successor.
 
2022-09-27 9:05:03 AM  

LZeitgeist: odinsposse: LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.

The Marvel franchise already recast a prominent black actor so I don't think that's it.

Yes, but that was because he acted like an asshole, not because he died.

Huge difference between the foundations of each of those decisions.


Right, and that foundational difference is probably the reason for the decision since they demonstrably aren't afraid to recast a black actor.
 
2022-09-27 9:06:15 AM  

LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.


They wrote Gwyneth Paltro and Natalie Portman out of the MCU because of personal or public reasons, until someone convinced them to play nice for a truck full of money.

Plus Phil Coulson. Damn you, ABC! None were recast.
 
2022-09-27 9:08:38 AM  
Having a Marvel Universe without T'Challa is going to change things a bit, but that's OK. The Marvel Film Multiverse is different from the Marvel Comics Multiverse, and MFM-616 Earth is very different from the MCM-616 Earth. At this point, expecting the MCU to follow the comics seems a strange idea because they've deviated so much already.

* Hulk transformation is based on Super Soldier Serum with gamma rays, not gamma rays alone.
* Stark, Banner, and Thor made Vision, not Hank Pym.
* Ant-Man and the Wasp were active decades before the formation of the Avengers, and were not Avengers.
* Black Widow isn't a Super Soldier, and wasn't born in the 1920s.
* The Fantastic Four (as far as we know) were not the first major superhero team.
* Thor is kinda goofy, and has followed an entirely different path (and was never turned into Don Blake).
* Tony Stark is dead. Really, irrevocably, no-doubt-about-it dead.
* Spider-Man never had a mentor-fan relationship with Reed Richards, but instead it was with Tony Stark.
* There's no Microverse, but there is a Quantum Realm.
* Thanos didn't literally court Death (the physical embodiment of her, that is) and lost to Tony Stark.
* So far, Mephisto is MIA.
* Wanda and Pietro Maximoff were never tricked into believing that Max Eisenhardt, AKA Erik Lensherr was their father.
* Quicksilver died before he could officially join the Avengers.
* The new Ms. Marvel is a mutant, not an Inhuman. Carol Danvers was never Ms. Marvel.
* The Ten Rings are entirely different, Shang-Chi's father isn't Fu Manchu, and Shang-Chi has the Ten Rings.
* The Purple Man isn't purple.
* Night Nurse is wayyyy hotter in the MCU.
* Doctor Strange isn't the Sorcerer Supreme.
* Bruce Banner's mother is alive, not beaten to death by his abusive father.
* Banner never went through a Mr. Fixit / Grey Hulk phase.
* Bucky wasn't a teenage sidekick. Captain America and Bucky were never member of the Invaders.
* The original Human Torch android never got past the planning stage.
* Vibranium is the strongest metal on Earth, not Adamantium.
* Norman Osborn, Harry Osborn, and Oscorp never existed on the MCU-616 Earth.
* Ned Leeds is a heavyset Filipino teenager, not a middle-aged white guy.
* Titania is an Indian-Pakistani woman whose power origins are as yet unknown, not a skinny white woman who got her powers from Doctor Doom on a Battle Planet assembled by the Beyonder.

Anyone complaining about a movie or show not being like the comics at this point needs to take a pill.
 
2022-09-27 9:21:20 AM  
Sucks he died. Not just for the MCU, but acting in general. He was an excellent actor and the loss of his skills so early is sad.

Cancer sucks.
 
2022-09-27 9:23:44 AM  

WilderKWight: Anyone complaining about a movie or show not being like the comics at this point needs to take a pill.


c.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2022-09-27 9:28:09 AM  

LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.


It's an issue of being too soon. If RDJ or Chris Evans had died after the first Avengers movie, they also would have balked at recasting those roles right away. The actors were just as much of a draw as the characters were.

Eventually we'll see someone new playing T'Challa, but probably not for at least another ten years.
 
2022-09-27 9:38:17 AM  

houstondragon: odinsposse: LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.

The Marvel franchise already recast a prominent black actor so I don't think that's it.

This.

It's one thing to replace an actor due to unforeseen events. Rhodes and Banner are the two major ones who just glossed over (and even poked fun in She-Hulk) without beating the joke.

Chadwick Bozeman was both a huge impact on the MCU as Black Panther but also arguably as a black actor on the overall Hollywood culture. He was seen as a next level talent and had done some phenomenal roles before his untimely death.

He was T'Challa. Putting someone else in would have been both awkward and disrespectful to the character and his co-stars. I'm happy they did not recast to allow for mourning, while also having a new separate Black Panther character as a worthy successor.


And the guy in the article was right - the real world mourns Bozeman, it's natural that the MCU world is mourning T'Challa.  It's too good of a plot point not to use, it comes packed with emotions ready to be drawn from.  We can see the emotion in the trailer, it's dripping with it.  It's a challenge for the writer, of course, but the potential for a great story is so much better than if they had simply recast.
 
2022-09-27 10:06:28 AM  

LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.


Funny how General/Secretary Ross has been written out of the MCU rather than being recast, despite him being built into a major antagonist in recent years and how Ross traditionally plays such a major role in the Thunderbolts, which is the MCU's next major crossover movie.

You're right, though. The only reason they introduced a new character instead of recasting Ross is because William Hurt is black.
 
2022-09-27 10:11:28 AM  
There would have been a certain amount of mirth in just making Michael B Jordan the new T'Challa and never addressing it (see landfill in Beerfest), but it's probably for the best to honor the actor to avoid that.
 
2022-09-27 10:19:52 AM  

WilderKWight: Tony Stark is dead. Really, irrevocably, no-doubt-about-it dead.


That's a silly thing to say about a comic character

WilderKWight: Banner never went through a Mr. Fixit / Grey Hulk phase.


He still could...

WilderKWight: Vibranium is the strongest metal on Earth, not Adamantium.


As soon as Wolverine makes his way to the MCU, Adamantium will be the strongest

WilderKWight: Norman Osborn, Harry Osborn, and Oscorp never existed on the MCU-616 Earth.


They might and it just hasn't come up yet
 
2022-09-27 10:55:52 AM  

houstondragon: odinsposse: LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.

The Marvel franchise already recast a prominent black actor so I don't think that's it.

This.

It's one thing to replace an actor due to unforeseen events. Rhodes and Banner are the two major ones who just glossed over (and even poked fun in She-Hulk) without beating the joke.

Chadwick Bozeman was both a huge impact on the MCU as Black Panther but also arguably as a black actor on the overall Hollywood culture. He was seen as a next level talent and had done some phenomenal roles before his untimely death.



Boseman (with an s) was a decent actor for sure, but "next level talent" and "phenomenal roles" is just revisionist rose coloured glasses because of his unfortunate death.

The reason this list of awards is almost entirely for the 2 films released after his death is nothing but the Heath Ledger effect of "well we won't get another chance to give him one".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Chadwick_Boseman

You ask the average person to name even one other non-Marvel movie he was in and you are more likely to get someone thinking his name was spelt with a Z than an actual answer.

Black Panther was certainly the launchpad to get him really noticed. So maybe he could have been the greatest actor ever, or maybe he could have let the fame go to his head and end up in a pool of cocaine, or maybe a meteorite could have fallen from the sky and crush him while handing presents to orphans.

We will never know, and that is indeed a great tragedy, but let's not pretend he was the greatest or stand out actor of his generation.  He was barely known outside of the arthouse circuit until hundreds of millions of Disney dollars made him a star in a role that would have been a success for almost any competent actor.
 
2022-09-27 10:56:19 AM  
At least they aren't making him a hologram :/
 
2022-09-27 11:38:05 AM  

WilderKWight: Vibranium is the strongest metal on Earth, not Adamantium.


Yeah, this bugs me.  If Cap's shield is pure vibranium, then it shouldn't be able to ricochet around the room smacking bad guys in the head.  It should hit the first wall, absorb the kinetic energy of impact, and fall straight down.  Like bullets that hit the shield just go splat and fall.

But if it's a unique alloy of vibranium and something else (adamantium, duh) then it could do all kindsa things with little explanation:

The shield was the dregs of an experiment left in a giant crucible.  As it cooled, the component metals of the alloy cooled and crystalized at different rates.  The result is an adamantium-heavy alloy toward the rim and a vibranium-heavy alloy at the center, with a gradient between the two.  That's why it can bounce off walls and stop bullets dead.  The shape of the bottom of crucible is why it's shaped like a contact lens.  And the shield is completely unique and not re-creatable.  I think some of the above explanation is from the comics, or was at one point.
 
2022-09-27 11:42:25 AM  

Greymalkin: Boseman (with an s)


Greymalkin: You ask the average person to name even one other non-Marvel movie he was in and you are more likely to get someone thinking his name was spelt with a Z than an actual answer.


Or you might get somebody who has Bozeman the Montana city in their autocorrect dictionary and you get too bent out of shape over the misspelling to even hear their answer.  And that's just the least asshole part of your asshole post.
 
2022-09-27 12:05:10 PM  

odinsposse: LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.

The Marvel franchise already recast a prominent black actor so I don't think that's it.


They should have had Don Cheadle play Black Panther too.

Every time someone in the MCU comes even close to mentioning that Black Panther and War Machine look the same, they say nothing out of fear of getting culture cancelled for thinking all black people look alike.

Ps. The black characters that could bring it up keep quiet out of fear Don Cheadle will replace them too.
 
2022-09-27 12:20:38 PM  

LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.


Nah, it's more dependent on who is in the role. Robert Downey was perfect for Tony Stark, after that first movie they couldn't have recast him. Ditto Chris Evans. Even though Loki is a shapeshifter and should be the easiest to recast Hiddleston's performance is too linked to the character. Evangeline Lilly they could probably swap out and Natalie Portman before Love and Thunder if they wanted to. Pretty much any of the Eternals could be recast and I'm not sure anyone would notice. Pretty sure they could recast any of the CGI characters voice actors and computer adjust the voices of someone else to be close enough for people to not really notice. Heck the VA for Rocket in the GOTG video game I think is great if they want to switch that up anyway.

MCU is pretty much dead on for casting decisions otherwise and some of the actors do so well in the roles that replacing them would mean doing some multiversal way to explain it because it'd be too awkward otherwise.
 
2022-09-27 12:27:31 PM  

kbronsito: odinsposse: LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.

The Marvel franchise already recast a prominent black actor so I don't think that's it.

They should have had Don Cheadle play Black Panther too.

Every time someone in the MCU comes even close to mentioning that Black Panther and War Machine look the same, they say nothing out of fear of getting culture cancelled for thinking all black people look alike.

Ps. The black characters that could bring it up keep quiet out of fear Don Cheadle will replace them too.


He was a great Captain Planet!
 
2022-09-27 12:39:57 PM  

inglixthemad: Sucks he died. Not just for the MCU, but acting in general. He was an excellent actor and the loss of his skills so early is sad.

Cancer sucks.


He blew me away when he played James Brown
Get On Up - Trailer
Youtube guOS6ev6hQ0
Great movie too, it hits the usual biopic beats but also goes into his friendship with Bobby Byrd.
 
2022-09-27 12:40:12 PM  
You got a PERFECTLY GOOD KILLMONGER, Marvel!  Use HIM!
 
2022-09-27 1:00:47 PM  
I'm happy with the decision. I'm also happy if they eventually recast. But this movie was too soon.
 
2022-09-27 1:03:09 PM  

Aquapope: The shield was the dregs of an experiment left in a giant crucible.  As it cooled, the component metals of the alloy cooled and crystalized at different rates.  The result is an adamantium-heavy alloy toward the rim and a vibranium-heavy alloy at the center, with a gradient between the two.  That's why it can bounce off walls and stop bullets dead.  The shape of the bottom of crucible is why it's shaped like a contact lens.  And the shield is completely unique and not re-creatable.  I think some of the above explanation is from the comics, or was at one point.


Eh, someone ("they") remade the shield after the final battle with Thanos. Realistically, I think we're just going to have to accept a hand-wave on its properties, or assume the explanation Cap was given was Stark dumbing it down. Maybe its molecular structure is like diamond, really hard/absorbing from one angle (bullets) but reflective perpendicular to that (to bounce and be all chopped up by Thanos' sword). See? Now I'm doing it too.

And if they've got that much vibranium, they need to make an Iron Man suit out of it, or put a veneer on a normal Iron Man suit.

SuperChuck: They might and it just hasn't come up yet


Didn't Green Goblin mention there is no Oscorp in No Way Home? He's a liar, but he seemed convinced he didn't exist in that world--and if he did, he probably would have killed himself and taken his place.
 
2022-09-27 1:29:08 PM  

WilderKWight: Having a Marvel Universe without T'Challa is going to change things a bit, but that's OK. The Marvel Film Multiverse is different from the Marvel Comics Multiverse, and MFM-616 Earth is very different from the MCM-616 Earth. At this point, expecting the MCU to follow the comics seems a strange idea because they've deviated so much already.

* Hulk transformation is based on Super Soldier Serum with gamma rays, not gamma rays alone.
* Stark, Banner, and Thor made Vision, not Hank Pym.
* Ant-Man and the Wasp were active decades before the formation of the Avengers, and were not Avengers.
* Black Widow isn't a Super Soldier, and wasn't born in the 1920s.
* The Fantastic Four (as far as we know) were not the first major superhero team.
* Thor is kinda goofy, and has followed an entirely different path (and was never turned into Don Blake).
* Tony Stark is dead. Really, irrevocably, no-doubt-about-it dead.
* Spider-Man never had a mentor-fan relationship with Reed Richards, but instead it was with Tony Stark.
* There's no Microverse, but there is a Quantum Realm.
* Thanos didn't literally court Death (the physical embodiment of her, that is) and lost to Tony Stark.
* So far, Mephisto is MIA.
* Wanda and Pietro Maximoff were never tricked into believing that Max Eisenhardt, AKA Erik Lensherr was their father.
* Quicksilver died before he could officially join the Avengers.
* The new Ms. Marvel is a mutant, not an Inhuman. Carol Danvers was never Ms. Marvel.
* The Ten Rings are entirely different, Shang-Chi's father isn't Fu Manchu, and Shang-Chi has the Ten Rings.
* The Purple Man isn't purple.
* Night Nurse is wayyyy hotter in the MCU.
* Doctor Strange isn't the Sorcerer Supreme.
* Bruce Banner's mother is alive, not beaten to death by his abusive father.
* Banner never went through a Mr. Fixit / Grey Hulk phase.
* Bucky wasn't a teenage sidekick. Captain America and Bucky were never member of the Invaders.
* The original Human Torch android never got past the planning stage.
* Vibranium is the strongest metal on Earth, not Adamantium.
* Norman Osborn, Harry Osborn, and Oscorp never existed on the MCU-616 Earth.
* Ned Leeds is a heavyset Filipino teenager, not a middle-aged white guy.
* Titania is an Indian-Pakistani woman whose power origins are as yet unknown, not a skinny white woman who got her powers from Doctor Doom on a Battle Planet assembled by the Beyonder.

Anyone complaining about a movie or show not being like the comics at this point needs to take a pill.


Smarted.

You kind of covered it with the Richard Reed as a mentor part, but Peter Parker not being a teenage science whiz in the MCU has always bugged me. The organic web shooters really bugged me. Peter Parker was SMART, damn it, and I looked up to that fictional character when I was a kid. I wanted to be a scientist because of Peter Parker.

/Into the Spiderverse got it right!
//And is my favorite Spider-Man movie
 
2022-09-27 1:30:39 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.

Nah, it's more dependent on who is in the role.


Agree 100%. It's also worth noting again that while there was no problem drawing Peter Parker for 50 years as a high school kid, real people age. Hugh Jackman is 53, and has a natural dancers physique, so he's pretty damn tired of bulking up for Wolverine. After nearly 15 years, RDJ has to be feeling the same. The simple reality that real people age will drive a lot of change in the MCU as time marches on, and is definitely part of the strategy behind the deluge of young characters they are introducing. Iman Vellani and her peers in the "new crew" are all like 20-25 years old, and given the production engine Feige has designed may be on for an easy decade of stories.

We all know Paul Rudd doesn't age like a regular human, so it makes sense that they're increasing his role in the larger arcs.

I wouldn't be surprised if they work in a younger version of the Pym's, and would expect Wonder Man to be a relatively young casting.

Ruffalo can go on forever, as he provides the voice and anyone can wear the mocap suit.

That said, after they bring in Wonder Man, I'd love to see them take a shot at a West Coast Avengers.....before Renner tires out

D'Onofrio can play Kingpin for quite a while yet, noone knows you're grey haired with a shaved head and a little touchup on the eyebrows

Just mining the stories that have been written before, there is still so much the MCU can do, and as they're doing with Black Panther 2, stories can certainly be adjusted to deal with reality.

Seriously, especially for anyone watching Picard, how many more decades do you think that Patrick Stewart would be wanting or able to play Xavier?
 
2022-09-27 1:34:14 PM  

SuperChuck: WilderKWight: Tony Stark is dead. Really, irrevocably, no-doubt-about-it dead.

That's a silly thing to say about a comic character

WilderKWight: Banner never went through a Mr. Fixit / Grey Hulk phase.

He still could...

WilderKWight: Vibranium is the strongest metal on Earth, not Adamantium.

As soon as Wolverine makes his way to the MCU, Adamantium will be the strongest

WilderKWight: Norman Osborn, Harry Osborn, and Oscorp never existed on the MCU-616 Earth.

They might and it just hasn't come up yet


global.discourse-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2022-09-27 2:04:22 PM  

LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.


They probably would have just used shoe polish left over from the first film to black him up too!
 
2022-09-27 2:05:46 PM  

kbronsito: odinsposse: LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.

The Marvel franchise already recast a prominent black actor so I don't think that's it.

They should have had Don Cheadle play Black Panther too.

Every time someone in the MCU comes even close to mentioning that Black Panther and War Machine look the same, they say nothing out of fear of getting culture cancelled for thinking all black people look alike.

Ps. The black characters that could bring it up keep quiet out of fear Don Cheadle will replace them too.


This could actually make for a hilarious What If...? episode.

Hear me out...

By the end of the episode every character - every single man, woman, and child-  is played by Don Cheadle, and it turns out to be one of the Kang's doing it to fark with the audience in a 4th wall break that is revealed to have been instigated by She Hulk's 4th wall breaks that made him aware of the audience and he did it all because he heard people say "mermaids aren't black."
 
2022-09-27 3:16:40 PM  
I loved Black Panther right up until the very end. All of the superhero movies have climactic fight scenes at the very end that take place in the dark so they can save money on special effects. But Black Panther? They straight up had a battle in the middle of a sunny day! In the fields! With colorful animals! You could see everything!

Then the main protagonist and antagonist...fell down a hole into a cavern and had a climactic fight in the dark.
 
2022-09-27 3:18:03 PM  
Recasting T'Challa would not be like getting another white guy to play Bond 007. Boseman brought something to that role his fans and the fans of the movie had never seen before, and would be difficult to replace or substitute. In a world where there the vast majority of superheroes, action heroes and movie leads are white men he was unique in more ways than anyone can imagine. For his fans he wasn't just a live action comic book character, he was THEIR live action comic book character.

My nephew loves these Marvel movies. The look on his face when he saw the posters and commercials for the Black Panther movie was indescribable... an entire superhero movie with people who looked like HIM and his friends and family. No substitute for that.
 
2022-09-27 3:26:56 PM  

rewind2846: Recasting T'Challa would not be like getting another white guy to play Bond 007. Boseman brought something to that role his fans and the fans of the movie had never seen before, and would be difficult to replace or substitute. In a world where there the vast majority of superheroes, action heroes and movie leads are white men he was unique in more ways than anyone can imagine. For his fans he wasn't just a live action comic book character, he was THEIR live action comic book character.

My nephew loves these Marvel movies. The look on his face when he saw the posters and commercials for the Black Panther movie was indescribable... an entire superhero movie with people who looked like HIM and his friends and family. No substitute for that.


This is a great summary
 
2022-09-27 4:04:36 PM  
All of this debate and discussion is just useless preamble to the inevitable and glorious apotheosis of the Marvel cinematic dream - the Night Nurse vs. Squirrel Girl movie.
 
2022-09-27 4:16:54 PM  

WilderKWight: The original Human Torch android never got past the planning stage.


Doesn't he show up in Captain America? At the World's Fair with Howard Stark?
 
2022-09-27 4:36:53 PM  

Lsherm: All of the superhero movies have climactic fight scenes at the very end that take place in the dark so they can save money on special effects.


That's pretty dumb.  They can afford daylight fights, except for the last one which they have to film in the dark because they ran out of money, even though they might have filmed the last fight first.  Go back and think that one through some more.
 
2022-09-27 4:57:59 PM  

Aquapope: Lsherm: All of the superhero movies have climactic fight scenes at the very end that take place in the dark so they can save money on special effects.

That's pretty dumb.  They can afford daylight fights, except for the last one which they have to film in the dark because they ran out of money, even though they might have filmed the last fight first.  Go back and think that one through some more.


They didn't film the last fight first. They filmed it near the end and the special effects were rushed big time. A lot of the sequence WAS done that way to save time and money, thanks to the difficult crunch involved.

That's not speculation, it's as per people who actually worked on it. One of them discussed it on Corridor Crew (or I think it was CC). The whole final sequence was yanked together at the last minute.
 
2022-09-27 5:19:37 PM  

Wine Sipping Elitist: You kind of covered it with the Richard Reed as a mentor part, but Peter Parker not being a teenage science whiz in the MCU has always bugged me. The organic web shooters really bugged me. Peter Parker was SMART, damn it, and I looked up to that fictional character when I was a kid. I wanted to be a scientist because of Peter Parker.


Peter in the MCU is incredibly smart. He goes to the Midtown School of Science and Technology. He invented technologies to fix all the bad guys in No Way Home. He figured out his web shooters before he ever met Iron Man. He defeats Doctor Strange using geometry. He and his friends are all trying to get into MIT. Peter being a science whiz is all there in the MCU.
 
2022-09-27 5:34:52 PM  

LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

I'm not saying they didn't do the right thing, though.


Damn.

Doing The Black Panther using a white dude would have been...a tough...ummm..sell.
 
2022-09-27 5:34:55 PM  

Cthulhu Theory: By the end of the episode every character - every single man, woman, and child- is played by Don Cheadle, and it turns out to be one of the Kang's doing it to fark with the audience in a 4th wall break that is revealed to have been instigated by She Hulk's 4th wall breaks that made him aware of the audience and he did it all because he heard people say "mermaids aren't black."


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2022-09-27 5:38:31 PM  

WilderKWight: Having a Marvel Universe without T'Challa is going to change things a bit, but that's OK. The Marvel Film Multiverse is different from the Marvel Comics Multiverse, and MFM-616 Earth is very different from the MCM-616 Earth. At this point, expecting the MCU to follow the comics seems a strange idea because they've deviated so much already.

* Hulk transformation is based on Super Soldier Serum with gamma rays, not gamma rays alone.
* Stark, Banner, and Thor made Vision, not Hank Pym.
* Ant-Man and the Wasp were active decades before the formation of the Avengers, and were not Avengers.
* Black Widow isn't a Super Soldier, and wasn't born in the 1920s.
* The Fantastic Four (as far as we know) were not the first major superhero team.
* Thor is kinda goofy, and has followed an entirely different path (and was never turned into Don Blake).
* Tony Stark is dead. Really, irrevocably, no-doubt-about-it dead.
* Spider-Man never had a mentor-fan relationship with Reed Richards, but instead it was with Tony Stark.
* There's no Microverse, but there is a Quantum Realm.
* Thanos didn't literally court Death (the physical embodiment of her, that is) and lost to Tony Stark.
* So far, Mephisto is MIA.
* Wanda and Pietro Maximoff were never tricked into believing that Max Eisenhardt, AKA Erik Lensherr was their father.
* Quicksilver died before he could officially join the Avengers.
* The new Ms. Marvel is a mutant, not an Inhuman. Carol Danvers was never Ms. Marvel.
* The Ten Rings are entirely different, Shang-Chi's father isn't Fu Manchu, and Shang-Chi has the Ten Rings.
* The Purple Man isn't purple.
* Night Nurse is wayyyy hotter in the MCU.
* Doctor Strange isn't the Sorcerer Supreme.
* Bruce Banner's mother is alive, not beaten to death by his abusive father.
* Banner never went through a Mr. Fixit / Grey Hulk phase.
* Bucky wasn't a teenage sidekick. Captain America and Bucky were never member of the Invaders.
* The original Human Torch android never got past the planning stage.
* Vibranium is the strongest metal on Earth, not Adamantium.
* Norman Osborn, Harry Osborn, and Oscorp never existed on the MCU-616 Earth.
* Ned Leeds is a heavyset Filipino teenager, not a middle-aged white guy.
* Titania is an Indian-Pakistani woman whose power origins are as yet unknown, not a skinny white woman who got her powers from Doctor Doom on a Battle Planet assembled by the Beyonder.

Anyone complaining about a movie or show not being like the comics at this point needs to take a pill.


But honestly... who cares? Comics themselves suck.  Some are cool. The characters and their general overall stories are cool. But the actual reading of the comics...

Sigh... Kind of suck.

At least the MCU kind of seems planned out a little.
 
2022-09-27 5:39:32 PM  

shoegaze99: Aquapope: Lsherm: All of the superhero movies have climactic fight scenes at the very end that take place in the dark so they can save money on special effects.

That's pretty dumb.  They can afford daylight fights, except for the last one which they have to film in the dark because they ran out of money, even though they might have filmed the last fight first.  Go back and think that one through some more.

They didn't film the last fight first. They filmed it near the end and the special effects were rushed big time. A lot of the sequence WAS done that way to save time and money, thanks to the difficult crunch involved.

That's not speculation, it's as per people who actually worked on it. One of them discussed it on Corridor Crew (or I think it was CC). The whole final sequence was yanked together at the last minute.


I've never said anything about it before because it's a minor quibble in an otherwise solid movie, but the last fight scene on that railway gets harder and harder to watch. It doesn't age well at all.
 
2022-09-27 5:39:58 PM  

shoegaze99: LZeitgeist: If he'd been a white actor, they'd have recast it without even rewriting the story.

Funny how General/Secretary Ross has been written out of the MCU rather than being recast, despite him being built into a major antagonist in recent years and how Ross traditionally plays such a major role in the Thunderbolts, which is the MCU's next major crossover movie.

You're right, though. The only reason they introduced a new character instead of recasting Ross is because William Hurt is black.


But he can play an old white dude really well.
 
2022-09-27 5:41:35 PM  

shut_it_down: Wine Sipping Elitist: You kind of covered it with the Richard Reed as a mentor part, but Peter Parker not being a teenage science whiz in the MCU has always bugged me. The organic web shooters really bugged me. Peter Parker was SMART, damn it, and I looked up to that fictional character when I was a kid. I wanted to be a scientist because of Peter Parker.

Peter in the MCU is incredibly smart. He goes to the Midtown School of Science and Technology. He invented technologies to fix all the bad guys in No Way Home. He figured out his web shooters before he ever met Iron Man. He defeats Doctor Strange using geometry. He and his friends are all trying to get into MIT. Peter being a science whiz is all there in the MCU.


Good argument.

Great one even.

You even pointed out excellent uses of his smarts in memorable scenes, however...

Have you considered, even for the slightest moments....

Nuh uh?

Your honor I rest my case.
 
2022-09-27 6:56:00 PM  

kbronsito: odinsposse: They should have had Don Cheadle play Black Panther too.

Every time someone in the MCU comes even close to mentioning that Black Panther and War Machine look the same, they say nothing out of fear of getting culture cancelled for thinking all black people look alike.

Ps. The black characters that could bring it up keep quiet out of fear Don Cheadle will replace them too.


That's actually a scene in one of the movies in the Hatchet horror/comedy franchise. There's an Asian actor who plays a completely different character in every movie in the series and in one scene someone points out he looks exactly like another character, making him yell at him about racism and how he insults him by insinuating all Asians look alike.
 
2022-09-27 8:21:04 PM  

WilderKWight: Having a Marvel Universe without T'Challa is going to change things a bit, but that's OK. The Marvel Film Multiverse is different from the Marvel Comics Multiverse, and MFM-616 Earth is very different from the MCM-616 Earth. At this point, expecting the MCU to follow the comics seems a strange idea because they've deviated so much already.

* Hulk transformation is based on Super Soldier Serum with gamma rays, not gamma rays alone.
* Stark, Banner, and Thor made Vision, not Hank Pym.
* Ant-Man and the Wasp were active decades before the formation of the Avengers, and were not Avengers.
* Black Widow isn't a Super Soldier, and wasn't born in the 1920s.
* The Fantastic Four (as far as we know) were not the first major superhero team.
* Thor is kinda goofy, and has followed an entirely different path (and was never turned into Don Blake).
* Tony Stark is dead. Really, irrevocably, no-doubt-about-it dead.
* Spider-Man never had a mentor-fan relationship with Reed Richards, but instead it was with Tony Stark.
* There's no Microverse, but there is a Quantum Realm.
* Thanos didn't literally court Death (the physical embodiment of her, that is) and lost to Tony Stark.
* So far, Mephisto is MIA.
* Wanda and Pietro Maximoff were never tricked into believing that Max Eisenhardt, AKA Erik Lensherr was their father.
* Quicksilver died before he could officially join the Avengers.
* The new Ms. Marvel is a mutant, not an Inhuman. Carol Danvers was never Ms. Marvel.
* The Ten Rings are entirely different, Shang-Chi's father isn't Fu Manchu, and Shang-Chi has the Ten Rings.
* The Purple Man isn't purple.
* Night Nurse is wayyyy hotter in the MCU.
* Doctor Strange isn't the Sorcerer Supreme.
* Bruce Banner's mother is alive, not beaten to death by his abusive father.
* Banner never went through a Mr. Fixit / Grey Hulk phase.
* Bucky wasn't a teenage sidekick. Captain America and Bucky were never member of the Invaders.
* The original Human Torch android never got past the planning stage.
* Vibranium is the strongest metal on Earth, not Adamantium.
* Norman Osborn, Harry Osborn, and Oscorp never existed on the MCU-616 Earth.
* Ned Leeds is a heavyset Filipino teenager, not a middle-aged white guy.
* Titania is an Indian-Pakistani woman whose power origins are as yet unknown, not a skinny white woman who got her powers from Doctor Doom on a Battle Planet assembled by the Beyonder.

Anyone complaining about a movie or show not being like the comics at this point needs to take a pill.


NO.

Fark everyone for all time there is only one 616 universe and it's the comics' universe.  Variant Christine is *not* a Multiversal authority and her numbering system is no more authoritative over the pan-universal goddess that said the comics universe is 616 than a random comic dork's ordering system for his personal collection has more authority than the Dewey Decimal system.

Quit confusing people with this MCM/MFM horseshiat.  There's the 616 comics' universe and the MCU as the two Marvel tentpoles of the one, singular Multiverse and everything else is just a hanger-on of one of those two.
 
2022-09-27 8:48:05 PM  

blackminded: WilderKWight: The original Human Torch android never got past the planning stage.

Doesn't he show up in Captain America? At the World's Fair with Howard Stark?


I vaguely remember that easter egg being a reference to The Rocketeer which was also directed by Joe Johnson.
 
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