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(Gizmodo)   Offshore wind is 125x better for taxpayers than oil and gas which is almost 13 tens which is why it's never gonna really happen   (gizmodo.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Wind power, World energy resources and consumption, offshore wind power, offshore wind energy lease sales, Carbon dioxide, Natural gas, Fossil fuel, Energy development  
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789 clicks; posted to STEM » on 26 Sep 2022 at 12:54 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



21 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-09-26 10:56:24 AM  
Counterpoint: If you convince large corporations that off shore wind is more profitable than oil and gas they will be dynamiting coral reefs in no time.
 
2022-09-26 1:00:08 PM  

SpectroBoy: Counterpoint: If you convince large corporations that off shore wind is more profitable than oil and gas they will be dynamiting coral reefs in no time.


Rich beachfront homeowners will NIMBY as hard as they can to keep the windmills from ever getting built in the first place.
 
2022-09-26 1:15:44 PM  

Ethertap: SpectroBoy: Counterpoint: If you convince large corporations that off shore wind is more profitable than oil and gas they will be dynamiting coral reefs in no time.

Rich beachfront homeowners will NIMBY as hard as they can to keep the windmills from ever getting built in the first place.


There is a proposal to build them here in Humboldt. They will be 30 miles offshore and beyond the horizon. How many of those homeowners are flat-earthers will remain to be seen. The public comment period will allow them to show their ignorance.
 
2022-09-26 1:20:04 PM  
SOmething else offshore wind is good for:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-26 1:23:56 PM  
A report finds per-acre revenue from offshore wind blows oil and gas out of the water.

Sounds dangerous. Maybe don't blow oil and gas all over the place. Just a thought.
 
2022-09-26 1:27:05 PM  
Oil and gas leases are speculative and in deep water, so you have to buy a chunk and play the odds. Sometimes you get an advantage from some geotechnical sleuthing. Wind is wind. You and your competitors pretty much know what you're paying for.

I hate it when they put names on bills... the Affordable Care Act did not make Care Affordable at all. What's gonna happen now they have something called the Inflation Reduction Act?
 
2022-09-26 1:28:11 PM  

Ethertap: SpectroBoy: Counterpoint: If you convince large corporations that off shore wind is more profitable than oil and gas they will be dynamiting coral reefs in no time.

Rich beachfront homeowners will NIMBY as hard as they can to keep the windmills from ever getting built in the first place.


The feds are helping to drive floating offshore wind energy for a number of reasons, one being that platforms can be anchored far enough offshore that you cannot see them from land.  That negates much of the NIMBY sentiment.

/it also unlocks a lot of areas where the continental shelf drops off so quickly that traditional solutions don't work.
 
2022-09-26 1:59:12 PM  

wildcardjack: Affordable Care Act did not make Care Affordable at all.


Reduced the number of medical bankruptcies - so when you look at it from a rather twisted angle, it did make it more affordable.  That said, since the ACA was about availability of insurance, not the cost of the care itself, your overall point is valid.
 
2022-09-26 2:04:59 PM  
That's cool and all, and I'm very much in favor of drastically reducing oil dependence for many reasons. Obviously including, I can't even believe it calls for acknowledgement, the reality of anthropogenic climate change.

But I can't help but feel there are some shenanigans in these numbers. All TFA explains is the lease cost per acre for oil exploration vs wind energy stations. But wouldn't there be a huge difference in scale for these?

I imagine oil exploration is done with leases of hundreds of thousands of acres at a time, as the drillers expect to need to poke around all over before finding any oil. Whereas for an offshore windmill, you really only need to lease the space for the equipment itself and one spot is effectively equivalent to any other in the area. There wouldn't seem to be any need to lease vast stretches.

Unless the drillers & windmillers are being given the very same lease parcels and these numbers are the result of them competing for those same areas, it seems like it could be a bogus comparison.
 
2022-09-26 2:09:51 PM  

Dinjiin: Ethertap: SpectroBoy: Counterpoint: If you convince large corporations that off shore wind is more profitable than oil and gas they will be dynamiting coral reefs in no time.

Rich beachfront homeowners will NIMBY as hard as they can to keep the windmills from ever getting built in the first place.

The feds are helping to drive floating offshore wind energy for a number of reasons, one being that platforms can be anchored far enough offshore that you cannot see them from land.  That negates much of the NIMBY sentiment.

/it also unlocks a lot of areas where the continental shelf drops off so quickly that traditional solutions don't work.


On the other hand, anything floating can be easily sunk. Too far out and it really does become a national energy vulnerability both from natural and foreign forces.
 
2022-09-26 2:13:32 PM  
dirty socialists and their wind power
 
2022-09-26 2:14:01 PM  
Blah blah. It's happening in Germany, in NL and in the UK. This "they're holding back" crap was old in the 70s and stinks even more now
 
2022-09-26 2:28:11 PM  

8tReAsUrEz: Blah blah. It's happening in Germany, in NL and in the UK. This "they're holding back" crap was old in the 70s and stinks even more now


It is still more expensive than wind power on land.  So you grab up all the good bits of land for wind power, THEN you move offshore.  Doubt that we're finished on land, but more likely the politics and economics aren't good for the huge wind farms big corporations and politicians love so much.
 
2022-09-26 2:40:09 PM  

Dinjiin: Ethertap: SpectroBoy: Counterpoint: If you convince large corporations that off shore wind is more profitable than oil and gas they will be dynamiting coral reefs in no time.

Rich beachfront homeowners will NIMBY as hard as they can to keep the windmills from ever getting built in the first place.

The feds are helping to drive floating offshore wind energy for a number of reasons, one being that platforms can be anchored far enough offshore that you cannot see them from land.  That negates much of the NIMBY sentiment.

/it also unlocks a lot of areas where the continental shelf drops off so quickly that traditional solutions don't work.


Cool!
 
2022-09-26 2:51:13 PM  
But the windmills kill billions of birds and the noise they make causes cancer, so they have to consider those FACTS.
 
2022-09-26 3:02:43 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: Dinjiin: Ethertap: SpectroBoy: Counterpoint: If you convince large corporations that off shore wind is more profitable than oil and gas they will be dynamiting coral reefs in no time.

Rich beachfront homeowners will NIMBY as hard as they can to keep the windmills from ever getting built in the first place.

The feds are helping to drive floating offshore wind energy for a number of reasons, one being that platforms can be anchored far enough offshore that you cannot see them from land.  That negates much of the NIMBY sentiment.

/it also unlocks a lot of areas where the continental shelf drops off so quickly that traditional solutions don't work.

On the other hand, anything floating can be easily sunk. Too far out and it really does become a national energy vulnerability both from natural and foreign forces.


If offshore farms take off in the future, they're likely to have hundreds of turbines spread over hundreds of square miles. If the Coast Guard and Navy are sitting around with their thumbs up the asses long enough for some hypothetical geopolitical adversary to ransack the whole distributed system, the US probably has bigger problems.
 
2022-09-26 3:26:44 PM  
I also like the fact the offshore wind farms become Oasis out in the ocean for sea life. So much better for the environment
 
2022-09-26 4:04:35 PM  

kkinnison: I also like the fact the offshore wind farms become Oasis out in the ocean for sea life. So much better for the environment


Great, so we're giving fish cancer.
 
2022-09-26 6:56:13 PM  
Great, now all the fish will wind up with ear cancer.
 
2022-09-26 9:39:44 PM  
Better for WHICH taxpayers? Hmm?

Also, ... Now that we have a Russia that might be resorting to vandalism, putting a lot of valuable infrastructure beyond our borders... in international waters... looks a little reckless. Everyone has submarines these days.

Things are complicated. There are so many costs and assigning probabilities to them is getting harder and harder. You get this pounded into your brain if you live in Japan. For decades, Japan has struggled to get energy supplies, only to have project after project shot down by politics and natural disasters and even demographics. You wind up with few options, and none of them good.

Europe is "learning" from shortages related to war. Or is it? The lessons seem to be that nuclear is affected by drought and by bombs and missiles, and that having enough natural gas is the persistent priority. Shortage is teaching us that we hate shortages. Paying someone to eliminate those shortages works great until they don't want to do that anymore. That will pass.
 
2022-09-27 12:18:52 AM  

kkinnison: I also like the fact the offshore wind farms become Oasis out in the ocean for sea life. So much better for the environment


Like a champagne supernova in the sea.
 
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