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(BBC-US)   Italy elects unabashed fascist to be next Prime Minister. Again   (bbc.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Italy, Star Movement, Lower house, Chamber of Deputies, Political party, House of Representatives, Enrico Letta, National government  
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2270 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Sep 2022 at 10:17 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-09-25 5:34:11 PM  
File under "things you never want to read":

will aim to form Italy's most right-wing government since World War Two.
 
2022-09-25 5:46:14 PM  
How many governments have come and gone in Italy since WWII. 69 since 1945 averaging about 1.1 years before new elections are called. The Italian government is famously ineffective and corrupt.
 
2022-09-25 5:49:00 PM  

eurotrader: How many governments have come and gone in Italy since WWII. 69 since 1945 averaging about 1.1 years before new elections are called. The Italian government is famously ineffective and corrupt.


Agree, but I have a bad feeling that these goons are going to stick around. And that's not good for anyone.  :\

Hell, kinda mind-numbing to think about here: We older millennials went from watching the USSR dissolve and freedom sweep Europe in grade school.

Now as we enter mid-life age, we're watching a former Soviet stooge wage war against eastern Europe, Thatcher 2.0 running the UK, and literal fascists running Italy.

Where TF did everything go wrong.
 
2022-09-25 5:50:43 PM  
Her allies, Matteo Salvini of the far-right League, and Silvio Berlusconi's centre-right Forza Italia have both had close ties with Russia.

Also, she has ties to Bannon:
d.newsweek.comView Full Size
 
2022-09-25 6:01:18 PM  
magicalquote.comView Full Size
 
2022-09-25 6:02:06 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: eurotrader: How many governments have come and gone in Italy since WWII. 69 since 1945 averaging about 1.1 years before new elections are called. The Italian government is famously ineffective and corrupt.

Agree, but I have a bad feeling that these goons are going to stick around. And that's not good for anyone.  :\

Hell, kinda mind-numbing to think about here: We older millennials went from watching the USSR dissolve and freedom sweep Europe in grade school.

Now as we enter mid-life age, we're watching a former Soviet stooge wage war against eastern Europe, Thatcher 2.0 running the UK, and literal fascists running Italy.

Where TF did everything go wrong.


I was literally sitting on a rooftop in Berlin and watched the Wall come down then saw David Hasselhof sing there and thought that is a different way to celebrate. So the Hof could be the sign that not everything was going to be alright in the future.

/History is changed in unexpected ways like a Colonel not making a telephone call before opening a gate.
 
2022-09-25 6:04:55 PM  
Meh, Italian politics remains a shiatshow.
 
2022-09-25 6:23:20 PM  
Grand_Moff_Joseph:  Where TF did everything go wrong.

The Powel Memo
 
2022-09-25 7:08:35 PM  

roddikinsathome: Grand_Moff_Joseph:  Where TF did everything go wrong.

The Powel Memo


Reading this and this passage stuck out:

"One of the bewildering paradoxes of our time is the extent to which the enterprise system tolerates, if not participates in, its own destruction."

Ironic that it is the 'free enterprise' types who have done all the destruction since Reagan/Thatcher
 
2022-09-25 7:30:56 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: eurotrader: How many governments have come and gone in Italy since WWII. 69 since 1945 averaging about 1.1 years before new elections are called. The Italian government is famously ineffective and corrupt.

Agree, but I have a bad feeling that these goons are going to stick around. And that's not good for anyone.  :\

Hell, kinda mind-numbing to think about here: We older millennials went from watching the USSR dissolve and freedom sweep Europe in grade school.

Now as we enter mid-life age, we're watching a former Soviet stooge wage war against eastern Europe, Thatcher 2.0 running the UK, and literal fascists running Italy.

Where TF did everything go wrong.


Not in the sense of any deliberate choice, but the US treating the 1990s as "a monopolar world" where everything would be just like before, but just with one superpower.  It was a failure to understand that any equilibrium during the Cold War was because of the tension between US and USSR.  With one gone, you can't just merrily continue like nothing was different, just like you can't keep pulling on your side of the rope when the other guy shoots himself in the head.  The inability to make meaningful acts of support to the Warsaw Pact, instead of trying to flood everything woth McDonalds and blue jeans, or to deal with US allies of dubious quality in a serious manner instead of being shocked when the assholes acted like assholes - those really just made the resultant spirals into farkery unavoidable.  Again, no one was trying to do it, and it would have taken a prescient motherfarker to see it at the time, but that sort of "Lets do the thing even more" giddiness/arrogance was a really bad course of action.  I'm not sure the US could have actually done it at the time, but a Marshall Plan for Eastern Europe and the Middle East, especially with some sort of face-saving role for the Russians might have created a more stable world - especially with some sort of CIA pro-democracy wetwork in the places it did all the anti-democracy wetwork.  Not that the US waz responsible for all of this, but it was the guy in the best place to try and manage the chaos inherent in a destabilizing event like a world superpower imploding.  FEMA doesn't cause hurricanes, but it can be useful to deal with them
 
2022-09-25 8:25:45 PM  
How'd that work out for ya last time?
 
2022-09-25 8:35:55 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: eurotrader: How many governments have come and gone in Italy since WWII. 69 since 1945 averaging about 1.1 years before new elections are called. The Italian government is famously ineffective and corrupt.

Agree, but I have a bad feeling that these goons are going to stick around. And that's not good for anyone.  :\

Hell, kinda mind-numbing to think about here: We older millennials went from watching the USSR dissolve and freedom sweep Europe in grade school.

Now as we enter mid-life age, we're watching a former Soviet stooge wage war against eastern Europe, Thatcher 2.0 running the UK, and literal fascists running Italy.

Where TF did everything go wrong.


When we tried to slow down wealth (a.k.a power) accumulation around the world.

(Actually, my theory is that the guilds and associations formed after the black plague ravaged the skilled labor population in Europe put so much power in the hands of labor that we're only now living through the late stage death rattle of enlightenment democracy, and we'll soon see a return to feudalism. But that's a bit out there, I admit...or hope.)
 
2022-09-25 8:48:04 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: How'd that work out for ya last time?


We didn't learn the lesson either.
 
2022-09-25 8:49:54 PM  

SurfaceTension: after the black plague ravaged the skilled labor population in Europe put so much power in the hands of labor


There was a spike in labor wages for about forty years.  Then it returned to normal.  As soon as a couple generations of new peasants popped up, there was no labor pressure.  Europe before the Black Death was ridiculously over-populated for its level of agricultural production - land that was considered utter trash not worth even clearing for fields two centuries before was heavily under the plow just before the Black Death trying desperately to keep up with the population's food demands.  The Black Death dropped the population by an absurd amount, but it also returned it to only mildly below sustainability levels.  Once some farking got those numbers up a bit, Joe Peasant wasn't worth much anymore.

Also, the Enlightenment wouldn't come along until 300 years after the Black Death.  It has precious fark-all to do with labor prices with the nascent democracies, let alone today.  Shiat, even a hundred and fifty years ago, the wages of the vast majority of Europeans and Americans were essentially subsistence level - Gilded Age robber barons had a ruthlessness toward labor that would even make Bezos and Musk recoil in shame (shame, and also a little arousal) - I mean, the US had the military just straight up murder workers for company owners into the early 1900s if said workers got a little feisty
 
2022-09-25 8:52:37 PM  

phalamir: SurfaceTension: after the black plague ravaged the skilled labor population in Europe put so much power in the hands of labor

There was a spike in labor wages for about forty years.  Then it returned to normal.  As soon as a couple generations of new peasants popped up, there was no labor pressure.  Europe before the Black Death was ridiculously over-populated for its level of agricultural production - land that was considered utter trash not worth even clearing for fields two centuries before was heavily under the plow just before the Black Death trying desperately to keep up with the population's food demands.  The Black Death dropped the population by an absurd amount, but it also returned it to only mildly below sustainability levels.  Once some farking got those numbers up a bit, Joe Peasant wasn't worth much anymore.

Also, the Enlightenment wouldn't come along until 300 years after the Black Death.  It has precious fark-all to do with labor prices with the nascent democracies, let alone today.  Shiat, even a hundred and fifty years ago, the wages of the vast majority of Europeans and Americans were essentially subsistence level - Gilded Age robber barons had a ruthlessness toward labor that would even make Bezos and Musk recoil in shame (shame, and also a little arousal) - I mean, the US had the military just straight up murder workers for company owners into the early 1900s if said workers got a little feisty


Wow. Thank you for the fact check. I'll drop my theory, I think.
 
2022-09-25 8:55:05 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


For f*ck's sake....my only condolence is that this won't last long.
 
2022-09-25 8:59:02 PM  
looks at paperwork to claim Italian citizenship by blood.

fark.

So Raerae ... How you feeling about this? Too bad the passports aren't just generic EU. It's got Italia stamped right on it.

Time to go back to passport shopping.
 
2022-09-25 9:01:25 PM  

yohohogreengiant: looks at paperwork to claim Italian citizenship by blood.

fark.

So Raerae ... How you feeling about this? Too bad the passports aren't just generic EU. It's got Italia stamped right on it.

Time to go back to passport shopping.


It doesn't change my plans.  There's no turning back.  But now I really need to vote in their elections.   And honestly, they change governments rather frequently so I'm not tooooooooo discouraged......yet.
 
2022-09-25 9:39:13 PM  

yohohogreengiant: looks at paperwork to claim Italian citizenship by blood.

fark.

So Raerae ... How you feeling about this? Too bad the passports aren't just generic EU. It's got Italia stamped right on it.

Time to go back to passport shopping.


It may say Italy on it but functionally it is a EU passport, giving the holder the right to live and work anywhere in the EU.
 
2022-09-25 9:44:31 PM  

raerae1980: yohohogreengiant: looks at paperwork to claim Italian citizenship by blood.

fark.

So Raerae ... How you feeling about this? Too bad the passports aren't just generic EU. It's got Italia stamped right on it.

Time to go back to passport shopping.

It doesn't change my plans.  There's no turning back.  But now I really need to vote in their elections.   And honestly, they change governments rather frequently so I'm not tooooooooo discouraged......yet.


If you are going North of Genoa it won't effect most things. Plus I think that's the nicest part for living in Italy.
 
2022-09-25 9:55:02 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: yohohogreengiant: looks at paperwork to claim Italian citizenship by blood.

fark.

So Raerae ... How you feeling about this? Too bad the passports aren't just generic EU. It's got Italia stamped right on it.

Time to go back to passport shopping.

It may say Italy on it but functionally it is a EU passport, giving the holder the right to live and work anywhere in the EU.


But Britian (._. )    Dude....the British Museum could have been within my reach......
 
2022-09-25 10:01:28 PM  

raerae1980: Carter Pewterschmidt: yohohogreengiant: looks at paperwork to claim Italian citizenship by blood.

fark.

So Raerae ... How you feeling about this? Too bad the passports aren't just generic EU. It's got Italia stamped right on it.

Time to go back to passport shopping.

It may say Italy on it but functionally it is a EU passport, giving the holder the right to live and work anywhere in the EU.

But Britian (._. )    Dude....the British Museum could have been within my reach......


Yeah, but maybe they're worried about foreigners coming in and stealing their stuff 🤪
 
2022-09-25 10:08:13 PM  

iron de havilland: raerae1980: Carter Pewterschmidt: yohohogreengiant: looks at paperwork to claim Italian citizenship by blood.

fark.

So Raerae ... How you feeling about this? Too bad the passports aren't just generic EU. It's got Italia stamped right on it.

Time to go back to passport shopping.

It may say Italy on it but functionally it is a EU passport, giving the holder the right to live and work anywhere in the EU.

But Britian (._. )    Dude....the British Museum could have been within my reach......

Yeah, but maybe they're worried about foreigners coming in and stealing their stuff 🤪


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-25 10:19:46 PM  
'Kay then... let's see if 'Murka can do better than Italy next month.
 
2022-09-25 10:23:44 PM  
She is predicted to win between 22-26% of the vote, says a Rai exit poll, ahead of her closest rival Enrico Letta from the centre left.

^^^Well, there's your problem.
 
2022-09-25 10:24:10 PM  

Majin_Buu: 'Kay then... let's see if 'Murka can do better than Italy next month.


um

I guess you mean Early Voting?
 
2022-09-25 10:25:05 PM  
I liked Italy better when they were electing porn stars to Parliament.
 
2022-09-25 10:25:06 PM  
What makes her so 'evil' that she got elected?
 
2022-09-25 10:26:58 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: How'd that work out for ya last time?


The trains ran on time.
 
2022-09-25 10:28:10 PM  
My understanding was that Mussolini wasn't elected, he just led the march on Rome and the king decided to make him prime minister unilaterally.
 
2022-09-25 10:29:20 PM  
The problem was that the Democrats ran a centrist. A true leftist would have gotten all the votes. Farking Pelosi.
 
2022-09-25 10:29:21 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: File under "things you never want to read":

will aim to form Italy's most right-wing government since World War Two.


Just so our Most Miserable Nazi isn't president...
 
2022-09-25 10:29:21 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Where TF did everything go wrong.


The people who lived through WWII are mostly dead now so fascism can be sexy again without them pointing out how BADLY fascism works out.

It's the forgetting history/doomed to repeat it trope.

Obviously plenty of other factors but that, to me, is a problem.

As a kid in school in the 80's we would get gathered into the gym, sit on the floor and listen to old vets describing their wars on Remembrance Day and the like.

Rowdy, crazy 80's kids all crammed in being dead silent and respectful throughout... and not for fear of punishment. It was just straight up proper respect.

Also my step granparents at the time were both immigrants who grew up as kids/teens in WWII Germany.

My Oma told a chilling tale about how her mother kept a jar of cyanide on the kitchen windowsill so she could poison her children if she saw the Nazis coming for them.

They weren't even Jewish.

They were Lutherans.

Brutal.
 
2022-09-25 10:29:55 PM  
Who voted for this? Is there any explaination why, other than "FARK THE WORLD!!"?
 
2022-09-25 10:30:35 PM  

raerae1980: [Fark user image 500x258] [View Full Size image _x_]

For f*ck's sake....my only condolence is that this won't last long.


Still want to move there?
 
2022-09-25 10:30:36 PM  

The5thElement: MaudlinMutantMollusk: How'd that work out for ya last time?

The trains ran on time.


Yeah but they didn't.
 
2022-09-25 10:31:02 PM  

The5thElement: MaudlinMutantMollusk: How'd that work out for ya last time?

The trains ran on time.


Snopes: [...]those who actually lived in Italy during the Mussolini era have borne testimony that the Italian railway's legendary adherence to timetables was far more myth than reality.

The myth of Mussolini's punctual trains lives on, albeit with a different slant: rather than serving as a fictitious symbol of the benefits of fascism, it is now offered as a sardonic example that something good can result even from the worst of circumstances.
 
2022-09-25 10:33:02 PM  

raerae1980: Carter Pewterschmidt: yohohogreengiant: looks at paperwork to claim Italian citizenship by blood.

fark.

So Raerae ... How you feeling about this? Too bad the passports aren't just generic EU. It's got Italia stamped right on it.

Time to go back to passport shopping.

It may say Italy on it but functionally it is a EU passport, giving the holder the right to live and work anywhere in the EU.

But Britian (._. )    Dude....the British Museum could have been within my reach......


I'm right there with you Rae. My citizenship hearing is this week. Grandparent birthrights.
 
2022-09-25 10:33:56 PM  

Bootleg: Her allies, Matteo Salvini of the far-right League, and Silvio Berlusconi's centre-right Forza Italia have both had close ties with Russia.

Also, she has ties to Bannon:
[d.newsweek.com image 366x255]


Shocking that a far right fascist would have ties with Putin.

That is something you only see in, oh, just about every other country in Europe.

It's quite the coincidence.
 
2022-09-25 10:33:59 PM  
Meloni has not been elected yet. Her party is winning the largest share of votes in the right wing (CDX) coalition

The right wing still needs to form a government, if it can hold itself together through the end of January and find enough random PMs to join them

pbs.twimg.comView Full Size
 
2022-09-25 10:34:04 PM  
I assume Italy has Facebook and Murdoch media so no surprise
 
2022-09-25 10:34:26 PM  
Less Giorgia Meloni
More Giorgio Moroder
 
2022-09-25 10:34:45 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: eurotrader: How many governments have come and gone in Italy since WWII. 69 since 1945 averaging about 1.1 years before new elections are called. The Italian government is famously ineffective and corrupt.

Agree, but I have a bad feeling that these goons are going to stick around. And that's not good for anyone.  :\

Hell, kinda mind-numbing to think about here: We older millennials went from watching the USSR dissolve and freedom sweep Europe in grade school.

Now as we enter mid-life age, we're watching a former Soviet stooge wage war against eastern Europe, Thatcher 2.0 running the UK, and literal fascists running Italy.

Where TF did everything go wrong.


The Telecommunications Act of 1996 allowing once disbanded monopolies to reform to the point of an oligopoly for the Internet, the Murdochs gobbling up as many newspapers around the world as possible to turn them conservative, and everyone feeding on a steady diet of truthiness via social media that has been infiltrated by Russian psyops trying to turn everything in favor of the glorious Russian empire.  Unfortunately, most are falling for this because they lack the critical thinking skills to see through all the conservative propaganda.
 
2022-09-25 10:35:08 PM  

Jumbled: Who voted for this? Is there any explaination why, other than "FARK THE WORLD!!"?


From what I was reading the Italian parliament is heavily reliant on coalitions so there is always tons of wheelings and dealings among the MANY parties and currently these dicks have the stronger coalition.

I'd need to read more to see if perhaps they have some kind of parliamentary majority whereby they stay in power and can resist no confidence votes like here in Canada but I'm going to assume their grip is tenuous at best by most parliamentary standards elsewhere... but strong for Italian parliament.

Something like that.

Do we have Italian farkers... like living there?

There must be.
 
2022-09-25 10:39:14 PM  

here to help: Do we have Italian farkers... like living there?


I used to hang out with a bunch of Italians who'd moved to NYC cause they thought Italy was a shiathole.  They missed the food but seemed to hate everything else about their country, especially the politics.
 
2022-09-25 10:39:26 PM  
if you are thinking of applying for an Italian passport - do it now. Get that application in ASAP.
 
2022-09-25 10:39:49 PM  

Bullitt: Less Giorgia Meloni
More Giorgio Moroder


My Name Is Giovanni Giorgio
Youtube w4FItFf96oY
 
2022-09-25 10:41:36 PM  
a lot of very bad people are happy tonight.  The talk of getting rid of "The globalists" is all over right wing twitter.  you trumpers and fark independents must be very pleased.
 
2022-09-25 10:43:01 PM  

Hinged: What makes her so 'evil' that she got elected?


Immigrant muslim trans people identifying themselves as a table lamp, I think? I dunno. It's way too easy to scare the average numbskull into voting against their own interests. Just goo BOOGA BOOGA in  the right ways and the goobers will goosestep straight to the polling places.
 
2022-09-25 10:43:31 PM  

PineappleOnPizza: raerae1980: [Fark user image 500x258] [View Full Size image _x_]

For f*ck's sake....my only condolence is that this won't last long.

Still want to move there?


Absolutely
 
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