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    More: Interesting, Mars, flyby mission, Space exploration, deep-space mission, crewed mission, travel time, difficult surface environment, nice place  
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2050 clicks; posted to STEM » on 26 Sep 2022 at 12:41 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-09-25 5:01:45 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-25 5:19:33 PM  
It's made of crusty brown bread, so there's that.
 
2022-09-25 5:38:34 PM  
I hear women are from there and Mars needs women so there's that.
 
2022-09-25 5:43:41 PM  
Didn't work out so well for the Arboghast.
 
2022-09-25 5:59:40 PM  
Sure, as long as the crew is made up of people like TFG, Margarine Traitor Gangrene, Lowrent Boobert, etc.
 
2022-09-25 8:29:08 PM  
I know from the movies I used to watch that's where they keep the good-looking women
 
2022-09-25 9:12:57 PM  

Xanadone: Sure, as long as the crew is made up of people like TFG, Margarine Traitor Gangrene, Lowrent Boobert, etc.


And once they all land, we rename the planet Theiranus.
 
2022-09-25 9:46:52 PM  
But a group of experts are advocating that our other nearest neighbour, rather than Mars, should be the initial target for a crewed mission to another planet.

The 'group of experts' just happen to be huge fans:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-25 10:12:30 PM  
Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus....so let's go to Venus!

-- Bill Clinton
 
2022-09-25 11:06:53 PM  
It's covered in tropical jungles inhabited by dinosaurs. As a youngun' I read several documentary travelogue books that assured me so.
 
2022-09-26 1:21:59 AM  
As I picture it, NASA recruiters go to a homeless shelter in the winter and hand out bottles of liquor until 7 wards are expelled from the premises.
 
2022-09-26 1:23:24 AM  
So what is the advantage of a human flying by Venus?  This seems like the illogical conclusion of sending people vs robots.
 
2022-09-26 1:34:49 AM  
Shocking Blue - Venus (Video)
Youtube 8LhkyyCvUHk
 
2022-09-26 1:37:29 AM  

Therion: It's covered in tropical jungles inhabited by dinosaurs. As a youngun' I read several documentary travelogue books that assured me so.


I remember reading about Venus as a kid and thinking that it seemed like maybe there had been a technological civilization there millions of years ago, but they destroyed their ecosystem and the whole thing became one big industrial accident.

As it turns out, Venus was probably never inhabitable...no magnetosphere, no moon, too close to the Sun and the atmosphere has probably been toxic for a long time. Still, it has a lot going for it as far as a target for colonization and terraforming. The gravity is 82% that of Earth's and obviously has potential as a site for industrial operations since the whole place is already an incredible toxic wasteland anyway. Alternately, it could be a great place to live due to its close proximity to Earth. It's a bit of a fixer-upper though.

It's possible we could establish an artificial magnetosphere in order to terraform it.  There's been some speculative work done on how to do this for Mars; obviously Venus would need a scaled-up version due to having a larger volume and also being much closer to the Sun.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094576521005099
 
2022-09-26 1:57:11 AM  

khatores: Therion: It's covered in tropical jungles inhabited by dinosaurs. As a youngun' I read several documentary travelogue books that assured me so.

I remember reading about Venus as a kid and thinking that it seemed like maybe there had been a technological civilization there millions of years ago, but they destroyed their ecosystem and the whole thing became one big industrial accident.

As it turns out, Venus was probably never inhabitable...no magnetosphere, no moon, too close to the Sun and the atmosphere has probably been toxic for a long time. Still, it has a lot going for it as far as a target for colonization and terraforming. The gravity is 82% that of Earth's and obviously has potential as a site for industrial operations since the whole place is already an incredible toxic wasteland anyway. Alternately, it could be a great place to live due to its close proximity to Earth. It's a bit of a fixer-upper though.

It's possible we could establish an artificial magnetosphere in order to terraform it.  There's been some speculative work done on how to do this for Mars; obviously Venus would need a scaled-up version due to having a larger volume and also being much closer to the Sun.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094576521005099


While i love the science fiction books/shows too....   we are so far away from feasible planetary colonies that we should really start worrying about NOT Breaking Earth (anymore than we have) rather than fixing someplace else to make it habitable.
 
2022-09-26 2:14:00 AM  

Therion: It's covered in tropical jungles inhabited by dinosaurs. As a youngun' I read several documentary travelogue books that assured me so.


Did they look like this?
readli.netView Full Size
 
2022-09-26 2:34:00 AM  

LewDux: Therion: It's covered in tropical jungles inhabited by dinosaurs. As a youngun' I read several documentary travelogue books that assured me so.

Did they look like this?
[readli.net image 300x437]


Georgie Martinov
Sestra Zemlyi?
 
2022-09-26 2:35:57 AM  

PineappleOnPizza: khatores: Therion: It's covered in tropical jungles inhabited by dinosaurs. As a youngun' I read several documentary travelogue books that assured me so.

I remember reading about Venus as a kid and thinking that it seemed like maybe there had been a technological civilization there millions of years ago, but they destroyed their ecosystem and the whole thing became one big industrial accident.

As it turns out, Venus was probably never inhabitable...no magnetosphere, no moon, too close to the Sun and the atmosphere has probably been toxic for a long time. Still, it has a lot going for it as far as a target for colonization and terraforming. The gravity is 82% that of Earth's and obviously has potential as a site for industrial operations since the whole place is already an incredible toxic wasteland anyway. Alternately, it could be a great place to live due to its close proximity to Earth. It's a bit of a fixer-upper though.

It's possible we could establish an artificial magnetosphere in order to terraform it.  There's been some speculative work done on how to do this for Mars; obviously Venus would need a scaled-up version due to having a larger volume and also being much closer to the Sun.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094576521005099

While i love the science fiction books/shows too....   we are so far away from feasible planetary colonies that we should really start worrying about NOT Breaking Earth (anymore than we have) rather than fixing someplace else to make it habitable.


It's hardly an either-or thing. I mean, yes, we are talking about government budgets that in theory can be allocated to one thing at the expense of another, but... NASA is a small proportion of the government payroll, and a lot of it is actually funding the graduate science and engineering degrees of people we will need to fix things.
 
2022-09-26 3:05:26 AM  
I can think of at least 20 different reasons why that would be a terrible idea and maybe 2 reasons why it wouldn't be.
 
2022-09-26 3:07:35 AM  
You can't simply send a manned rocket 🚀 to Mars, land that rocket on the planet, collect samples into that rocket, leave the planet on that rocket, and return to earth with a live crew.

You can do it with separate pre-launched orbiters, landers, Martian habitat and return rockets.
 
2022-09-26 3:45:38 AM  
The temperature at the surface of Venus is 740 K (467 °C, 872 °F) and the pressure is 93 bar (1,350 psi). Even Star Trek levels of technology might not be enough to make a trip to the surface of Venus a survivable trip. And if we aren't going to send people to the surface, then what's the point of sending people?

In its favour, however, Venus is significantly closer, making a return mission doable in a year, compared with a potentially three-year roundtrip to Mars.

What's even closer than Venus is Tahiti. We could send astronauts to Tahiti for far less money and they'd probably have a better time.
 
2022-09-26 4:19:28 AM  
It's just a matter of time before we colonize one of them soon. I think it boils down to one simple question: Do you want your children to be Martians or Venusians? I think it would be really cool to have a Martian son and a Venusian daughter, but that's just me.
 
2022-09-26 5:06:22 AM  
Under its current condition, there is absolutely no reason for a human colony on or orbiting Venus.

If in God-Mode you could increase its rotational speed, add a magnetosphere, get rid of 99+% of the CO2, and that's just for starters.

If they're going for a 'floating city' bit, why bother going to Venus versus, let's say, Tahiti?

Or if orbiting is what is envisioned, why not have an ISS 2.0?  (If an 'exotic' location is desired, then just use the Moon.)

Venus ain't happening anytime soon...
 
2022-09-26 5:37:50 AM  
Terraforming Venus would be easier than it seems, possibly easier than Mars even, though it would still take centuries of work before anyone could stand on its surface, and thousands of years in all likelihood before a human could breathe unaided there. Not an escape plan tor messing up earth, but it's quite doable and would likely be economically worthwhile. Certainly more so than putting a manned floating science research station in the atmosphere.

There is a good reason to aim for a manned orbit around Venus before any sort of manned Mars mission. One of the biggest hurdles in a manned Mars trip is how to make sure the astronauts survive it. Sending a manned mission to Venus would be far easier to test technologies and techniques to accomplish interplanetary flight than going for Mars first. Venus is closer to Earth than Mars, and with a shorter year there are more mission windows available. We sure as hell couldn't land anyone on the surface, but there is still a wealth of knowledge to gain from a manned flyby.

Interestingly, NASA originally intended for manned flybys of Venus to be the follow up to the Apollo program back in the 70's.

How To Terraform Venus (Quickly)
Youtube G-WO-z-QuWI
 
2022-09-26 5:43:09 AM  
Adam Savage seen looking around, nervously...
 
2022-09-26 6:28:58 AM  
I'd go, not like I got anything better to do on this planet working for either oligarchs, plutocrats, and hyper capitalists.
 
2022-09-26 6:53:38 AM  
Send a probe to bring back data.  What's the worse that could happen?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-26 7:02:40 AM  
Bananarama - Venus (Official Video)
Youtube d4-1ASpdT1Y
 
2022-09-26 7:03:07 AM  
Venus? Hope we don't run into the Ruler.

/definitely obscure
//pretty sure it's obscure even for Fark
///
 
2022-09-26 7:06:38 AM  

ISO15693: LewDux: Therion: It's covered in tropical jungles inhabited by dinosaurs. As a youngun' I read several documentary travelogue books that assured me so.

Did they look like this?
[readli.net image 300x437]

Georgie Martinov
Sestra Zemlyi?


"Earth's Sister", 2nd book in very old soviet sci-fi trilogy. So old that then in the first book someone expresses doubts if humanity can reach stars, someone else replies "as great Stalin said, there's nothing impossible for working class people")

You can read it here Георгий Мартынов - Сестра Земли читать онлайн (libking.ru)

Or listen to the first one If you know Russian 220 days on a spaceship : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
 
2022-09-26 7:22:29 AM  
Who is the crew going to be?
Burnt Reynolds
Smokey Robinson
Cinder Ella
ASHton Kutcher?
 
2022-09-26 7:22:38 AM  

Befuddled: The temperature at the surface of Venus is 740 K (467 °C, 872 °F) and the pressure is 93 bar (1,350 psi). Even Star Trek levels of technology might not be enough to make a trip to the surface of Venus a survivable trip. And if we aren't going to send people to the surface, then what's the point of sending people?

In its favour, however, Venus is significantly closer, making a return mission doable in a year, compared with a potentially three-year roundtrip to Mars.

What's even closer than Venus is Tahiti. We could send astronauts to Tahiti for far less money and they'd probably have a better time.


It's a magical place.
 
2022-09-26 7:33:13 AM  

SuperChris: Terraforming Venus would be easier than it seems, possibly easier than Mars even, though it would still take centuries of work before anyone could stand on its surface, and thousands of years in all likelihood before a human could breathe unaided there. Not an escape plan tor messing up earth, but it's quite doable and would likely be economically worthwhile. Certainly more so than putting a manned floating science research station in the atmosphere.

There is a good reason to aim for a manned orbit around Venus before any sort of manned Mars mission. One of the biggest hurdles in a manned Mars trip is how to make sure the astronauts survive it. Sending a manned mission to Venus would be far easier to test technologies and techniques to accomplish interplanetary flight than going for Mars first. Venus is closer to Earth than Mars, and with a shorter year there are more mission windows available. We sure as hell couldn't land anyone on the surface, but there is still a wealth of knowledge to gain from a manned flyby.

Interestingly, NASA originally intended for manned flybys of Venus to be the follow up to the Apollo program back in the 70's.

[YouTube video: How To Terraform Venus (Quickly)]


I must respectfully disagree.

Unless you're trying to fufill some Kennedy-esque dream, there's nothing to be gained by a manned mission to Venus.

I'm aware of the 'Venusian floating city' concept, and I do not doubt on the possibility, but I seriously doubt the economics and somewhat doubt the scientific benefits.

Anything we can learn about space travel can be 'solved' returning to the moon - and that would be a much easier sell...
 
2022-09-26 7:46:57 AM  

Chief Superintendent Lookout: Send a probe to bring back data.  What's the worse that could happen?

[Fark user image 620x454]


Isn't that the probe that The Bionic Man had to fight?
 
2022-09-26 7:48:53 AM  
Similarly to land wars in Asia, all of this diving down gravity wells and terraforming are just going to bog us down. My dream for colonization of the solar system goes  Moon > Phobos Deimos > Asteroids   and then along in there will be some Mars surface activity and some Venus orbital activity, and then Ceres and the gas giant moons. We will be using rotators and momentum and magnetic acceleration to get into and out of orbits rather than this rocket and airbraking thing we have now. And then we can have Aldrin conveyors to cycle us among the planets and moons we want to get to.

Moving around does not take so much in resources. It is these gravity wells that suck up effort like a sponge.

So where does Venus fit in? Well, skimming volatiles  and using its close-in mass for conveyor slingshots are the obvious uses.

Launch from Earth, catch a conveyor or boost to Venus. Pick up a huge load of fuel at Venus AND get a gravity slingshot to some outer planet and PSHOOOO you are on your way at super high velocity.

Alternatively, you can catch a fast conveyor inbound, ride that slingshot and then let the conveyor head back to Earth while you set off on a different course.

Do that over and over just hauling skimmed volatiles in huge tanks to Earth orbits. You can use solar power coming and going to process the volatiles for fuel, ice, and whatever you want. Pretty soon, you will have all the volatiles you need for cis lunar development at a fraction of the cost of boosting it from Earth.

Combining all of the conveyors, solar, and resources of Mercury and Venus with outer planet conveyors, you can set up triangle trade and be off to the races. Eventually, volatiles from asteroid ice will be cheaper as asteroid development takes off, but maybe not. Venus has a distance cost, but huge scale is possible.

Four conveyors to Venus, say two to Mercury, and six to eight to Mars will give you all the resources you will need for construction. propulsion, and energy. And it will be cheap cheap cheap. Turn your conveyors into factories to do the processing en route... like the Mail Train Cars of a century and a half ago.

Might as well think big.
 
2022-09-26 7:49:05 AM  

DON.MAC: So what is the advantage of a human flying by Venus?  This seems like the illogical conclusion of sending people vs robots.


You get practice sending humans that far. We either die on this rock, or we learn to send humans to places other than this rock.

Unless of course the plan is that we just have robots exploring the universe as our legacy.
 
2022-09-26 7:55:07 AM  

dready zim: Chief Superintendent Lookout: Send a probe to bring back data.  What's the worse that could happen?

[Fark user image 620x454]

Isn't that the probe that The Bionic Man had to fight?


It's the first one.

i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2022-09-26 8:31:32 AM  
How To Terraform Venus (Quickly)
Youtube G-WO-z-QuWI
 
2022-09-26 9:43:02 AM  

trerro: [Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/G-WO-z-QuWI]


Run the film backward to see Earth in 100 years.
 
2022-09-26 2:36:04 PM  
https://www.planetary.org/articles/every-picture-from-venus-surface-ever

Russkies were there first.  I don't see why we don't attempt to create a rover to withstand some/most of Venus' conditions to get more data.
 
2022-09-26 4:11:04 PM  
We're not gonna colonize Mars or Venus. Not saying we shouldn't study those places, but people aren't going to live long-term on either of them. It's not gonna happen. Just stop saying it's gonna happen. It isn't.
 
2022-09-26 4:30:33 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's not gonna happen.


Other things people said would never happen include, the lightbulb, telephone, aeroplane, television, automobile, personal computer, data transmission.

More relevant to space : in the 1920s, Lee De Forest said of space travel, 'I am bold enough to say that such a man-made voyage will never occur regardless of all future advances' while The New York Times similarly stated: 'A rocket will never be able to leave the Earth's atmosphere.'

People are very bloody minded as a species and would most likely do it just to prove you personally wrong.
 
2022-09-26 8:18:58 PM  

SuperChris: Terraforming Venus would be easier than it seems, possibly easier than Mars even, though it would still take centuries of work before anyone could stand on its surface, and thousands of years in all likelihood before a human could breathe unaided there. Not an escape plan tor messing up earth, but it's quite doable and would likely be economically worthwhile. Certainly more so than putting a manned floating science research station in the atmosphere.

There is a good reason to aim for a manned orbit around Venus before any sort of manned Mars mission. One of the biggest hurdles in a manned Mars trip is how to make sure the astronauts survive it. Sending a manned mission to Venus would be far easier to test technologies and techniques to accomplish interplanetary flight than going for Mars first. Venus is closer to Earth than Mars, and with a shorter year there are more mission windows available. We sure as hell couldn't land anyone on the surface, but there is still a wealth of knowledge to gain from a manned flyby.

Interestingly, NASA originally intended for manned flybys of Venus to be the follow up to the Apollo program back in the 70's.

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/G-WO-z-QuWI?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsapi=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&widgetid=1]


Just watched this again... I forgot Venus is tidally locked. Fark that noise, man.
 
2022-09-26 8:20:55 PM  

2fardownthread: Similarly to land wars in Asia, all of this diving down gravity wells and terraforming are just going to bog us down. My dream for colonization of the solar system goes  Moon > Phobos Deimos > Asteroids   and then along in there will be some Mars surface activity and some Venus orbital activity, and then Ceres and the gas giant moons. We will be using rotators and momentum and magnetic acceleration to get into and out of orbits rather than this rocket and airbraking thing we have now. And then we can have Aldrin conveyors to cycle us among the planets and moons we want to get to.

Moving around does not take so much in resources. It is these gravity wells that suck up effort like a sponge.

So where does Venus fit in? Well, skimming volatiles  and using its close-in mass for conveyor slingshots are the obvious uses.

Launch from Earth, catch a conveyor or boost to Venus. Pick up a huge load of fuel at Venus AND get a gravity slingshot to some outer planet and PSHOOOO you are on your way at super high velocity.

Alternatively, you can catch a fast conveyor inbound, ride that slingshot and then let the conveyor head back to Earth while you set off on a different course.

Do that over and over just hauling skimmed volatiles in huge tanks to Earth orbits. You can use solar power coming and going to process the volatiles for fuel, ice, and whatever you want. Pretty soon, you will have all the volatiles you need for cis lunar development at a fraction of the cost of boosting it from Earth.

Combining all of the conveyors, solar, and resources of Mercury and Venus with outer planet conveyors, you can set up triangle trade and be off to the races. Eventually, volatiles from asteroid ice will be cheaper as asteroid development takes off, but maybe not. Venus has a distance cost, but huge scale is possible.

Four conveyors to Venus, say two to Mercury, and six to eight to Mars will give you all the resources you will need for construction. propulsion, and energy. And it will be cheap cheap cheap. Turn your conveyors into factories to do the processing en route... like the Mail Train Cars of a century and a half ago.

Might as well think big.


da inners gon graball goodstuff aye?
 
2022-09-26 8:44:51 PM  

dready zim: Other things people said would never happen include, the lightbulb, telephone, aeroplane, television, automobile, personal computer, data transmission.


That's a really bad argument to make. Imagine someone comes to you with an idea and it is the most stupid impossible thing ever dreamt up by a person so you tell the person "That's impossible." Then that person says to you "Other things people said would never happen..." Does that change your mind about the dumbest thing you've ever heard? If not, then the "Other things..." retort is meaningless. Ideas succeed or fail on their own.
 
2022-09-27 2:09:14 AM  

Befuddled: dready zim: Other things people said would never happen include, the lightbulb, telephone, aeroplane, television, automobile, personal computer, data transmission.

That's a really bad argument to make. Imagine someone comes to you with an idea and it is the most stupid impossible thing ever dreamt up by a person so you tell the person "That's impossible." Then that person says to you "Other things people said would never happen..." Does that change your mind about the dumbest thing you've ever heard? If not, then the "Other things..." retort is meaningless. Ideas succeed or fail on their own.


Is that someone a spacenutter?

Colonism is the tinfoil spacenutters use to keep Earth from their brainwaves
 
2022-09-27 5:26:02 AM  

LewDux: spacenutter


Are they someone who says atoms are immortal?

Befuddled: That's a really bad argument to make.


It's a better argument than the one I was responding to.
 
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