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(Yahoo)   One of America's biggest non-profit hospital chains is apparently profiting quite nicely   (news.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Sick, Health care, Patient, Hospital, Health care provider, country's largest nonprofit hospital chains, Providence's chief financial officer, free health care, Money  
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6882 clicks; posted to Politics » and Business » on 25 Sep 2022 at 10:05 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-09-25 2:36:42 PM  
Sounds like a place that deserves nationalization.
 
2022-09-25 8:00:31 PM  
Sounds like a model for Republican health care.
 
2022-09-25 10:07:56 PM  
Providence is a non-profit hospital originally set up by nuns. It sits on a $10 billion cash pile. A member of staff first approached the mother about payment while Isaiah lay dying in intensive care

Nothing more catholic than someone else dying for your sins.
 
2022-09-25 10:08:49 PM  
Just another reason why public single payer is really the only way. The idea of debt collection for medical care is f*cking obscene.
 
2022-09-25 10:10:12 PM  
if the people operating a "non-profit" are earning "going market rate" for the job they preform.
Then there is no such thing as this "non-profit" as long as someone has a private profiteering incentive in how they manage it.


i would have thought non-profit was an obvious lie in a capitalist culture/civilization.
 
2022-09-25 10:11:11 PM  
I believe it.

Sounds like they're bleeding money and getting desperate.
 
2022-09-25 10:13:22 PM  
When medicine is for profit people suffer and the worse of the worst come out to take the most advantage of those most vulnerable.

Free Healthcare should be a human right. We are an incredibly wealthy society. We can all afford it. Only the US chooses not to.
 
2022-09-25 10:14:43 PM  
Nyfors only source of income was $1,700 in federal disability payments. Following her treatment in the hospital, Nyfors was handed a bill of nearly $2,000.

What'd they do? A bare minimum of lab tests and then say 'you're fine come back if anything changes'?  $2G is like a cover charge in US healthcare.
 
2022-09-25 10:15:46 PM  

PvtStash: if the people operating a "non-profit" are earning "going market rate" for the job they preform.
Then there is no such thing as this "non-profit" as long as someone has a private profiteering incentive in how they manage it.


i would have thought non-profit was an obvious lie in a capitalist culture/civilization.


It can work if the non-profit status/label is regulated. So... other countries.

rzrwiresunrise: Just another reason why public single payer is really the only way. The idea of debt collection for medical care is f*cking obscene.


True that. Some countries even manage to have both single-payer health systems and legit non-profit organisations (though those still try to push the boundaries).
 
2022-09-25 10:18:11 PM  
McKinsey are complete scumbags.
 
2022-09-25 10:20:17 PM  
Every single one of these "nonprofit" healthcare corporations should have their entire upper management tried for crimes against humanity. They abuse the hell out of nonprofit status and act like they have no money despite bringing in billions in net revenue every single year.
 
2022-09-25 10:21:31 PM  

Hinged: I believe it.

Sounds like they're bleeding money and getting desperate.


Yep.  They are down to a $10 billion cash pile it seems.
 
2022-09-25 10:22:03 PM  
Medicare for All: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
Youtube 7Z2XRg3dy9k


"So for what it is worth, personally, I am in favor of some version of carefully-designed universal health coverage. And I will own all the things about it that are difficult, including the fact that, politically, it would be incredibly hard to get passed. But in return, anyone who's resistant to significant change is going to have to own all the flaws of our current system. One in which, when Americans get sick, they can find themselves comparison shopping with a burst appendix, flipping a coin between lifesaving medications, and praying they can come up with a catchy-enough hashtag to cover their care."
 
2022-09-25 10:22:27 PM  

Hinged: I believe it.

Sounds like they're bleeding money and getting desperate.


Yup

https://www.wweek.com/news/2022/08/16/providence-reports-nearly-1-billion-loss-for-first-half-of-2022/
 
2022-09-25 10:27:22 PM  
Thank god for the ACA. It seems to be doing what it was created for.
 
2022-09-25 10:28:57 PM  
Several decades ago, I was working on some OLD office equipment and asked the lady why they
didn't upgrade their equipment.  She said you don't understand.  Our department was set up to
LOSE money, because the ICU, cancer, Peds bring in a TON of money, and they set up some
departments to LOSE money because we are "suppose" to be a not for profit.
Before the "healthcare insurance" industry came along, going to the doctor or a 2-3 day stay in
the hospital didn't come out the price of a typical home today.
 
2022-09-25 10:45:38 PM  
Water wet, sky blue, orcs bad.  Is anyone really surprised by this?
 
2022-09-25 10:46:22 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: Just another reason why public single payer is really the only way. The idea of debt collection for medical care is f*cking obscene.


Single payer health care is just collected by different means.  I completely agree though, nationalized health care is needed.  But, all the rhetoric about it being "free" is disingenuous
 
2022-09-25 10:47:04 PM  

PhoenixFarker: McKinsey are complete scumbags.


you're a homophobe!
 
2022-09-25 10:49:31 PM  

PvtStash: if the people operating a "non-profit" are earning "going market rate" for the job they preform.
Then there is no such thing as this "non-profit" as long as someone has a private profiteering incentive in how they manage it.


i would have thought non-profit was an obvious lie in a capitalist culture/civilization.


Uh...are you suggesting nurses doctors and everyone else should be paid under market? Actual wage slavery?

Tell us more, comrade.
 
2022-09-25 10:51:53 PM  

Watubi: rzrwiresunrise: Just another reason why public single payer is really the only way. The idea of debt collection for medical care is f*cking obscene.

Single payer health care is just collected by different means.  I completely agree though, nationalized health care is needed.  But, all the rhetoric about it being "free" is disingenuous


Literally nobody thinks healthcare is "free" and you aren't clever or insightful for pointing out that it isn't free.
 
2022-09-25 10:53:40 PM  

Watubi: rzrwiresunrise: Just another reason why public single payer is really the only way. The idea of debt collection for medical care is f*cking obscene.

Single payer health care is just collected by different means.  I completely agree though, nationalized health care is needed.  But, all the rhetoric about it being "free" is disingenuous


Pretending that people don't understand that "free [at point of service]" means "funded by tax monies" is disingenuous.
 
2022-09-25 10:55:03 PM  

sinner4ever: Thank god for the ACA. It seems to be doing what it was created for.


It was designed to make cosmetic changes while ensuring corporate profits, so yes
 
2022-09-25 10:58:23 PM  
non-profit healthcare merely means the executive consume all the profits instead of any shareholders.

Also, they dodge their taxes.

Of course they are avarice embodied.
 
2022-09-25 10:59:47 PM  
All three credit reporting agencies have agreed to stop listing medical debt on your credit reports.   Most hospitals know it's a losing proposition to try to sue you for the balance and will sell the debt  to a debt collector within 180 days for pennies on the dollar.   Get used to telling people to fark off over the phone and sooner or later those calls will stop coming and the debt will all but disappear
 
2022-09-25 11:00:11 PM  
Americans keep voting for the sons of biatches who perpetuate this broken system.  Pretty soon it's going to be nothing but nurse practitioners and PAs while these "non-profit" mega health care systems push out doctors and cut nursing and ancillary staff to the barest of bones because it's so much cheaper for insurance companies.
 
2022-09-25 11:01:08 PM  

Begoggle: Watubi: rzrwiresunrise: Just another reason why public single payer is really the only way. The idea of debt collection for medical care is f*cking obscene.

Single payer health care is just collected by different means.  I completely agree though, nationalized health care is needed.  But, all the rhetoric about it being "free" is disingenuous

Literally nobody thinks healthcare is "free" and you aren't clever or insightful for pointing out that it isn't free.


I'm certain there is a large portion of the American public that are convinced single payer is free. And it would be for them since about half of all Americans pay no income taxes.  hiat them with a monthly premium (anyone else on Medicare?) and their tune would change.
 
2022-09-25 11:02:50 PM  

dionysusaur: Sounds like a place that deserves nationalization.


We don't do that here.
 
2022-09-25 11:05:48 PM  

Begoggle: Watubi: rzrwiresunrise: Just another reason why public single payer is really the only way. The idea of debt collection for medical care is f*cking obscene.

Single payer health care is just collected by different means.  I completely agree though, nationalized health care is needed.  But, all the rhetoric about it being "free" is disingenuous

Literally nobody thinks healthcare is "free" and you aren't clever or insightful for pointing out that it isn't free.


You must not know any average everyday people.
They don't call it universal healthcare or single payer.
They call it free.
They don't understand that to have universal healthcare means everyone pays for it through taxes.
 
2022-09-25 11:09:48 PM  
The Daily Fail generating anger and hate?? Say it isn't so!

Also, so many people conflate non-profit with free. Non-profits generate money to pay staff, do maintenance, maybe even expand to different locations which takes a ton of money.

WHY non-profits are set up is a different thing altogether; while some are set up to offer things for free, some are to offer reduced rates, other entities might have completely other objectives such as increasing the level of education or being a legal watchdog.
To give you an example, Harvard is a non-profit organization. No one expects Harvard to be cheap.

/I still think free healthcare is needed to curb the craziness that is private healthcare
//same as schools
 
2022-09-25 11:15:05 PM  
 
2022-09-25 11:15:18 PM  

Dr. Nick Riviera: Americans keep voting for the sons of biatches who perpetuate this broken system.  Pretty soon it's going to be nothing but nurse practitioners and PAs while these "non-profit" mega health care systems push out doctors and cut nursing and ancillary staff to the barest of bones because it's so much cheaper for insurance companies.


Who else can we vote for? Most of us get a choice between two people who brag that they won't fix it, so how are we supposed to vote to fix it?
 
2022-09-25 11:16:47 PM  
I was surprised to read in the article that one person, who was pressured by Providence to pay bills she shouldn't have to, also received fundraising letters. I was surprised because the same thing happened to me with a different hospital, and I thought it was a fluke. Tufts Medical in Boston is ruthless in collecting payments, and every time I initially talked to someone in their Billing Department about paying off my bill in installments, the person would hint that if I didn't pay my bill promptly, my bill would be sent to a collection agency. Didn't matter that I was willing to pay off my bill.

At the same time,Tufts would also send me fundraising letters, containing stories of people who couldn't afford to pay their bills.
 
2022-09-25 11:19:13 PM  

Resident Muslim: WHY non-profits are set up is a different thing altogether; while some are set up to offer things for free, some are to offer reduced rates, other entities might have completely other objectives such as increasing the level of education or being a legal watchdog.
To give you an example, Harvard is a non-profit organization. No one expects Harvard to be cheap.


And therein lies the problem.  If you expect the citizens to give you a pass on paying your fair share and accumulate multi-billion dollar nest eggs in exchange for unleashing more George W. Bushes and Ted Cruzes into the wild, the citizens are right to be pissed and question your non-profit status.
 
2022-09-25 11:19:13 PM  

Resident Muslim: The Daily Fail generating anger and hate?? Say it isn't so!

Also, so many people conflate non-profit with free. Non-profits generate money to pay staff, do maintenance, maybe even expand to different locations which takes a ton of money.

WHY non-profits are set up is a different thing altogether; while some are set up to offer things for free, some are to offer reduced rates, other entities might have completely other objectives such as increasing the level of education or being a legal watchdog.
To give you an example, Harvard is a non-profit organization. No one expects Harvard to be cheap.

/I still think free healthcare is needed to curb the craziness that is private healthcare
//same as schools


This. And just because the hospital has a $10bn cash reserve, doesn't mean it's scamming people. It means that they are keeping funds available in the event that they need to cover expenses, either operating or capital investment expenses, in the event that their income doesn't match their outflow.

And considering the previous link about them posting a $1bn loss, plus the cost of healthcare operations in general in the US, $10bn cash reserves isn't exactly that much.

If it was 10x that or more, then I might raise an eyebrow.
 
2022-09-25 11:24:20 PM  

Resident Muslim: Non-profits generate money to pay staff, do maintenance, maybe even expand to different locations which takes a ton of money.


For-profit companies have to lose money to pull all that off.
 
2022-09-25 11:24:24 PM  

Watubi: rzrwiresunrise: Just another reason why public single payer is really the only way. The idea of debt collection for medical care is f*cking obscene.

Single payer health care is just collected by different means.  I completely agree though, nationalized health care is needed.  But, all the rhetoric about it being "free" is disingenuous


Weird. I don't see the word "free" anywhere in my post. It's... it's almost like you had a talking point you had to get out there.
 
2022-09-25 11:34:31 PM  

Magorn: Get used to telling people to fark off over the phone and sooner or later those calls will stop coming and the debt will all but disappear


That's good advice, but expect a 1099 for the forgiven debt.

The Man gets his cut one way or the other.
 
2022-09-25 11:34:59 PM  
Hey lookie, it's my old CEO, the vile Dr. Rod Hochman.  He started at the late great Swedish Hospital in Seattle, after the previous CEO died.  Swedish suddenly started spending money like a drunken sailor, acquiring other hospitals, and building a ballyhooed hospital in Issaquah that was so opulent, we called it the Swedish Bellagio.  Speaking of opulent, we used to peruse the purchasing database at work to see how much the hospital was paying Hochman's office renovation.  $1400 for a side chair and $300 for a wastepaper basket are the ones I remember.

Then the recession hit 2009-ish, and soon afterward Swedish "entered a partnership" with Providence Health Services, which was actually Providence bailing out Swedish.  Suddenly abortion services were no longer available at Swedish, nor end-of-life options for terminally ill patients.  Work meetings were started with prayers.  Thousands of employees were laid off (myself included).  And Rod mothafarkin' Hochman was rewarded with a huge promotion at Providence and multimillion dollar salary for destroying the Swedish brand.  Burn in hell, Hochman.
 
2022-09-26 12:09:15 AM  
Around here the system has been called the Sisters of Profit for the last thirty years. You won't find a nun there. Actually, in America "not for profit" is a form of business organization that generates plenty of income over outlays; our universities are an obvious further example.
 
2022-09-26 12:10:47 AM  

rzrwiresunrise: Just another reason why public single payer is really the only way. The idea of debt collection for medical care is f*cking obscene.


Amen.
 
2022-09-26 12:14:46 AM  

Watubi: rzrwiresunrise: Just another reason why public single payer is really the only way. The idea of debt collection for medical care is f*cking obscene.

Single payer health care is just collected by different means.  I completely agree though, nationalized health care is needed.  But, all the rhetoric about it being "free" is disingenuous


Are you thinking you made a point no one else knows?

Medical care costs money. If we all pay for it in our taxes, not out of pocket, it costs less nationally. And the government has vastly more power controlling the price of it.
 
2022-09-26 12:15:55 AM  

UndeadPoetsSociety: Dr. Nick Riviera: Americans keep voting for the sons of biatches who perpetuate this broken system.  Pretty soon it's going to be nothing but nurse practitioners and PAs while these "non-profit" mega health care systems push out doctors and cut nursing and ancillary staff to the barest of bones because it's so much cheaper for insurance companies.

Who else can we vote for? Most of us get a choice between two people who brag that they won't fix it, so how are we supposed to vote to fix it?


Start a national movement.  Blacks won a major civil rights victory in the 60s/70s, not because they voted for the candidate that would change things but because the changed the moral outlook of a significant portion of the country was changed due to the Civil Rights Movement
 
2022-09-26 12:20:48 AM  

Resident Muslim: Non-profits generate money to pay staff, do maintenance, maybe even expand to different locations which takes a ton of money.


You mean they don't pay money to pay their directors a lot?
 
2022-09-26 12:24:53 AM  

PvtStash: if the people operating a "non-profit" are earning "going market rate" for the job they preform.
Then there is no such thing as this "non-profit" as long as someone has a private profiteering incentive in how they manage it.


i would have thought non-profit was an obvious lie in a capitalist culture/civilization.


It's time noon-profits get some sort of criteria regarding corporate payment.  If anybody makes more than 100 times the lowest paid employee, then they lose non profit status.  And that includes the value of all the bullshiat forms of payment they use to hide income.

That would limit CEO pay to no more than say 3 million.

You know what?  Make that fifty times.

Oh, but if your pay too little, how will they attract to notch CEOs?  They won't.  And that's a good thing, because top notch CEOs are sociopaths.
 
2022-09-26 12:25:32 AM  

Kit Fister: And just because the hospital has a $10bn cash reserve, doesn't mean it's scamming people. It means that they are keeping funds available in the event that they need to cover expenses, either operating or capital investment expenses, in the event that their income doesn't match their outflow.

And considering the previous link about them posting a $1bn loss, plus the cost of healthcare operations in general in the US, $10bn cash reserves isn't exactly that much.

If it was 10x that or more, then I might raise an eyebrow.


I see you're a "big numbers" guy. You're not impressed by $1 billion or $10 billion, but $100 billion is something you might care about.

Obviously you don't care one rat's ass about the smaller obscene bills sent to people in TFA. Just big numbers.
 
2022-09-26 12:26:53 AM  

sinner4ever: Thank god for the ACA. It seems to be doing what it was created for.


Hello, predictable anklebiter.
 
2022-09-26 12:27:21 AM  

PvtStash: if the people operating a "non-profit" are earning "going market rate" for the job they preform.
Then there is no such thing as this "non-profit" as long as someone has a private profiteering incentive in how they manage it.


i would have thought non-profit was an obvious lie in a capitalist culture/civilization.


For a long time the CEO at our little community hospital was making well below half a million in total compensation.  We didn't have that many VPs or any of that bullshiat.  We were really a non-profit
 
2022-09-26 12:38:25 AM  

Herr Flick's Revenge: Begoggle: Watubi: rzrwiresunrise: Just another reason why public single payer is really the only way. The idea of debt collection for medical care is f*cking obscene.

Single payer health care is just collected by different means.  I completely agree though, nationalized health care is needed.  But, all the rhetoric about it being "free" is disingenuous

Literally nobody thinks healthcare is "free" and you aren't clever or insightful for pointing out that it isn't free.

You must not know any average everyday people.
They don't call it universal healthcare or single payer.
They call it free.
They don't understand that to have universal healthcare means everyone pays for it through taxes.


We are paying way more via other means.  Insurance premiums, copays, lost wages because our employers cover health insurance, etc etc etc.

Just because you're not paying for it with taxes doesn't mean your paying less.  At least if you no longer have Mr. Providence CEO making ten million a year maybe some other people can get cheaper care.

That's the main honcho.  They own fifty hospitals (i forget the exact number) and each one has a CEO making seven figures.  They might even have a few other executives besides the CEO making seven figures.

Hell, Portland's soccer stadium is Providence field.  I don't know how much they pay for the naming rights but THAT money is somebody's premiums getting used for something other than patient care.

I wish these school shooters with violent suicidal fantasies would pick something other than schools for their mass murder.  Not saying that the executive suites at a giant hospital system wouldn't be a terrible tragedy, but it would...ah, who am I kidding.  I would throw a party in their honor.
 
2022-09-26 12:46:21 AM  

Kit Fister: Resident Muslim: The Daily Fail generating anger and hate?? Say it isn't so!

Also, so many people conflate non-profit with free. Non-profits generate money to pay staff, do maintenance, maybe even expand to different locations which takes a ton of money.

WHY non-profits are set up is a different thing altogether; while some are set up to offer things for free, some are to offer reduced rates, other entities might have completely other objectives such as increasing the level of education or being a legal watchdog.
To give you an example, Harvard is a non-profit organization. No one expects Harvard to be cheap.

/I still think free healthcare is needed to curb the craziness that is private healthcare
//same as schools

This. And just because the hospital has a $10bn cash reserve, doesn't mean it's scamming people. It means that they are keeping funds available in the event that they need to cover expenses, either operating or capital investment expenses, in the event that their income doesn't match their outflow.

And considering the previous link about them posting a $1bn loss, plus the cost of healthcare operations in general in the US, $10bn cash reserves isn't exactly that much.

If it was 10x that or more, then I might raise an eyebrow.


They posted a loss but aren't counting the massive aid they got. So whatevs.  It's not like the pandemic wasn't a massive outlier for hospital expenses.
 
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