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(CNN)   Apparently all it took to get Americans to start eating healthier was to make food more expensive. Who knew?   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Food, Nutrition, Eating, Food prices, Food security, Agriculture, past year, Grocery store  
•       •       •

395 clicks; posted to Food » on 25 Sep 2022 at 9:30 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



64 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


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2022-09-25 8:54:21 AM  
FWIW, we usually get a nice loaf of french bread to go with sunday dinner but yesterday at the grocery store it was $5 a loaf so we didn't.  I suppose they're right you know.
 
2022-09-25 9:06:17 AM  
Fast food is much cheaper than healthy 'fresh' foods.
Unless you're talking a bag of beans and a sack of rice...because if you are, fark you.

/and I can make a dang beans and rice stuff. It's can just get boring tho.
 
2022-09-25 9:11:44 AM  
cdn.cnn.comView Full Size

JFC if you're buying 3 farken gallons of milk before it goes bad. You have a breeding problem, not a bread problem.
Oh...but nice call on the "Symbolic Sacrificial" asparagus .
 
2022-09-25 9:15:36 AM  
..and you know you can buy Lettuce 'outside the bag', buy the head but for much cheaper. Crazy, yeah I know.
And WTF is up with "La Croix" designer water. Geeze. Your problem isn't 'high food costs' lady...it's *you*.
 
2022-09-25 9:15:56 AM  

optikeye: Fast food is much cheaper than healthy 'fresh' foods.


Not even close. Is Home-Cooked Food Cheaper Than Fast Food? Yes.

static01.nyt.comView Full Size
 
2022-09-25 9:24:49 AM  

Man On A Mission: optikeye: Fast food is much cheaper than healthy 'fresh' foods.

Not even close. Is Home-Cooked Food Cheaper Than Fast Food? Yes.

[static01.nyt.com image 700x1351]


Apples/Oranges.
The stuff you get from the 'cheap' bit your posting. Isn't gonna cook itself.
And PLEASE don't put coke on that menu item as 'fast food'. Geeze.
Yeah...we can make burgers, fries, and even OPEN A CAN OF COKE at home.
But often we don't.
So, tell us what you do.
Heck, right now I have a pot of beans soaking and whole chicken in the fridge the SO cooked last night.

Nothing you do for "Healthy" isn't going to make a dang bit of diffrence if the kids (or others) don't actually eat it.
 
2022-09-25 9:24:59 AM  

offacue: FWIW, we usually get a nice loaf of french bread to go with sunday dinner but yesterday at the grocery store it was $5 a loaf so we didn't.  I suppose they're right you know.


For less than $3.00 you can buy a small bag of flour and some yeast and make a few French boules. But I realize that's too difficult for most Americans who prefer everything to be premade and as ultra-processed with preservatives and fillers as possible
 
2022-09-25 9:28:42 AM  

optikeye: Apples/Oranges.


The proper response would have been, "I am completely wrong and feel bad for pushing the utterly ridiculous claim that cooking at home is more expensive than eating out."

But hey, no one ever admits they are wrong online.
 
2022-09-25 9:29:18 AM  

The Exit Stencilist: offacue: FWIW, we usually get a nice loaf of french bread to go with sunday dinner but yesterday at the grocery store it was $5 a loaf so we didn't.  I suppose they're right you know.

For less than $3.00 you can buy a small bag of flour and some yeast and make a few French boules. But I realize that's too difficult for most Americans who prefer everything to be premade and as ultra-processed with preservatives and fillers as possible


We make our own bread, pizza dough.
Tho, I tend to use 000 Caupto Flour.
Which is probably too difficult for "MOST" Americans.
media-amazon.comView Full Size
 
2022-09-25 9:30:49 AM  
We're dealing with some unprecedented grocery consolidation here in California... Few years ago lost regional chain Safeway/Vons to Kroger, and just this year lost SaveMart/Lucky to a hedge fund.

Hard to tell what's actually a price commodity rising VS corporate gouging during turbulent times
 
2022-09-25 9:33:34 AM  

Man On A Mission: optikeye: Apples/Oranges.

The proper response would have been, "I am completely wrong and feel bad for pushing the utterly ridiculous claim that cooking at home is more expensive than eating out."

But hey, no one ever admits they are wrong online.


Look, why do you even BUY yeast?
I make my own sometimes. I put a big bowl outside under a oak tree. With a bit of flour, sugar...and let that perk.
Under a full moon.
I Also make my own sauerkraut late October when the farmer's market has cabbages for cheep.

And PEANUTS. Boy Howdy...I wants me some roasted peanuts when the truck farmers do a green pea nut drop off at the local market.
 
2022-09-25 9:33:59 AM  

optikeye: The Exit Stencilist: offacue: FWIW, we usually get a nice loaf of french bread to go with sunday dinner but yesterday at the grocery store it was $5 a loaf so we didn't.  I suppose they're right you know.

For less than $3.00 you can buy a small bag of flour and some yeast and make a few French boules. But I realize that's too difficult for most Americans who prefer everything to be premade and as ultra-processed with preservatives and fillers as possible

We make our own bread, pizza dough.
Tho, I tend to use 000 Caupto Flour.
Which is probably too difficult for "MOST" Americans.
[media-amazon.com image 850x584]


Fancy flour, nice. I just use gold medal most the time, because I'm basic like that

But yeah, if more people made their own food, they'd save good money and be happier, healthier and several pounds lighter for it
 
2022-09-25 9:39:19 AM  

The Exit Stencilist: But yeah, if more people made their own food, they'd save good money and be happier, healthier and several pounds lighter for it


I doubt that. IN the "SPACE AGE" days. People cooked at home A LOT.
They where's really more healthy, and not 'lighter'.
It was a golden age of heart disease, diet crazes, home cooking. Which I love.

Heck, google up some early Julia Childe PBS shows. There's very little 'healthy' or low cal about those.
Geeze, she uses a stick of butter in most everything.
 
2022-09-25 9:40:04 AM  

optikeye: They where's really more healthy,


NOT really more healthy.
 
2022-09-25 9:41:56 AM  
You want to eat healthy, cheap, and easy? Try the potato diet. Just eat potatoes. That's it. Just potatoes. It actually works.
 
2022-09-25 9:44:06 AM  

optikeye: Nothing you do for "Healthy" isn't going to make a dang bit of diffrence if the kids (or others) don't actually eat it.


How to tell everyone you're a bad cook without telling everyone you're a bad cook.
 
2022-09-25 9:47:28 AM  

optikeye: optikeye: They where's really more healthy,

NOT really more healthy.


Eh, advancements in Medicine could be the difference, too.  Also rampant smoking and pollutants.

Itsstill a damn sight better than current diets.
 
2022-09-25 9:50:10 AM  

SuperSeriousMan: optikeye: Nothing you do for "Healthy" isn't going to make a dang bit of diffrence if the kids (or others) don't actually eat it.

How to tell everyone you're a bad cook without telling everyone you're a bad cook.


I've won stuff from https://food52.com/ for wining recipe contest.
And had recipes published in the NYT cook book.
I've mucked out more barns, and delt with more catfish/trout ponds than you'll ever know.
And stung by BEES gathering honey from their supers. COWS have tried to kill me when feeding them.
But go on....

(I'd really like a "Super" again...but we don't have farmland nearby for the BEES)
 
2022-09-25 9:54:55 AM  

optikeye: Man On A Mission: optikeye: Apples/Oranges.

The proper response would have been, "I am completely wrong and feel bad for pushing the utterly ridiculous claim that cooking at home is more expensive than eating out."

But hey, no one ever admits they are wrong online.

Look, why do you even BUY yeast?
I make my own sometimes. I put a big bowl outside under a oak tree. With a bit of flour, sugar...and let that perk.
Under a full moon.
I Also make my own sauerkraut late October when the farmer's market has cabbages for cheep.

And PEANUTS. Boy Howdy...I wants me some roasted peanuts when the truck farmers do a green pea nut drop off at the local market.


Pffft, starting with those products, you might as well just be ordering fast food.

Real cooks don't need anything but a bag of hydrogen atoms and an energy source.
 
2022-09-25 10:00:41 AM  
If you're shopping at a supermarket, you're paying for the convenience of having everything in one place and marketing for name brand products.

If you're lucky enough to have access to them, go to farmer's markets, butcher shops, and bakers.
 
2022-09-25 10:01:32 AM  
The only way to stop the gluttony is to starve it out.  If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes.
Enjoy your climate change diet.  You'll look good enough to  hit the beach at St. Tropez--wait, count that one out.  Oil spill and hurricane expected there.
You still look really good, hon, even if you can't go outside because of the really bad air quality.
 
2022-09-25 10:03:38 AM  

olrasputin: Real cooks don't need anything but a bag of hydrogen atoms and an energy source.


Dude...That's one of the themes I won't be doing this Halloween for 'reasons'.
Tho, I have planned. I have some tubes, to stuff with 'stuff' and these lovely ceramic TV trays.
images.vat19.comView Full Size


Tho I make better food then that pale crap in the pic.
 
2022-09-25 10:05:02 AM  
 
2022-09-25 10:06:18 AM  

optikeye: olrasputin: Real cooks don't need anything but a bag of hydrogen atoms and an energy source.

Dude...That's one of the themes I won't be doing this Halloween for 'reasons'.
Tho, I have planned. I have some tubes, to stuff with 'stuff' and these lovely ceramic TV trays.
[images.vat19.com image 600x372]

Tho I make better food then that pale crap in the pic.


My (smart) dog might eat some of that. Maybe. (The dumb one would eat the farkin' tray too.)
 
2022-09-25 10:06:41 AM  
The lady in the article went from making fresh tomato sauce to the jar kind. That's not healthier.  She went from bulk to shiat on sale. No real savings there. Bulk chicken is still cheaper than buying chicken on sale.
/The people that thought ahead brought a deep freezer a decade ago.
 
2022-09-25 10:12:27 AM  

olrasputin: optikeye: olrasputin: Real cooks don't need anything but a bag of hydrogen atoms and an energy source.

Dude...That's one of the themes I won't be doing this Halloween for 'reasons'.
Tho, I have planned. I have some tubes, to stuff with 'stuff' and these lovely ceramic TV trays.
[images.vat19.com image 600x372]

Tho I make better food then that pale crap in the pic.

My (smart) dog might eat some of that. Maybe. (The dumb one would eat the farkin' tray too.)


one thing we suggested for the neice. for her "bake sale" was make dog biscuits for sale.
People will be dog biscuits instead of cat counter top grade school cookies.
And you can get clever little cookie cutters.
Plenty of recipes online to make up some paper bags for xmas gifts.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-25 10:15:56 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: The lady in the article went from making fresh tomato sauce to the jar kind. That's not healthier.  She went from bulk to shiat on sale. No real savings there. Bulk chicken is still cheaper than buying chicken on sale.
/The people that thought ahead brought a deep freezer a decade ago.


LOL...
The electricity cost of a deep freezer is expensive.
And for the chest model...stuff tends to get overlooked and languashes in the bottom of the freezer, lurking.
 
2022-09-25 10:20:40 AM  

The Exit Stencilist: optikeye: The Exit Stencilist: offacue: FWIW, we usually get a nice loaf of french bread to go with sunday dinner but yesterday at the grocery store it was $5 a loaf so we didn't.  I suppose they're right you know.
For less than $3.00 you can buy a small bag of flour and some yeast and make a few French boules. But I realize that's too difficult for most Americans who prefer everything to be premade and as ultra-processed with preservatives and fillers as possible
We make our own bread, pizza dough.
Tho, I tend to use 000 Caupto Flour.
Which is probably too difficult for "MOST" Americans.
[media-amazon.com image 850x584]
Fancy flour, nice. I just use gold medal most the time, because I'm basic like that
But yeah, if more people made their own food, they'd save good money and be happier, healthier and several pounds lighter for it


How dare you. Their time is MONEY, and they don't have enough yet.
Don't you all get it?  It's not a different subject, it's the same farking thing I always bithc about--your work and your money has become more important than living your life.  We have a fast food culture BECAUSE we have a work culture--hang on, I have something obnoxious I can post--

i.imgur.comView Full Size


We have frozen food and frozen pizza and enough dining establishments to choke a hog BECAUSE we base  our lives around work, and eating is not a positive financial outlay.  It actually costs you money and then you have to shiat it out--that takes time-- and god forbid that you actually have to COOK something, because you aren't making any money then.

the millennials have now based an entire subculture on dining out and being waited on, because that's what signals your financial success--not being able to do a farking thing for yourself.  And if you can be waited on in Spain or Cabo, your Instagram fans will be smoking with envy.  You're cooking up a tan, but you don't COOK.

And you have to think about it, what to eat and how to cook it, and then there's that trip to the store, and you have to deal with all those fat people, and the whole time you're thinking, "What's the financial benefit to me with all this?"  Besides better mental and physical health, but besides THAT.  That crap is costing you money, and there are people, people with less worth than you have, who do that stuff.

It's nothing but a positive financial move to be waited on like a baby, at least the way we've set up our economy at this point.  It's all about YOU, baby, you baby, with your positive financial outlook and your army of faceless servants.
Cooking. That's for low-net worth individuals. You see people doing that at the many places you stop in to.  It's fascinating, like watching people work at a slaughterhouse.

/don't blame me. I learned this on Fark.
 
2022-09-25 10:29:18 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: The lady in the article went from making fresh tomato sauce to the jar kind. That's not healthier.  She went from bulk to shiat on sale. No real savings there. Bulk chicken is still cheaper than buying chicken on sale.
/The people that thought ahead brought a deep freezer a decade ago.


There are som things that just aren't worth the time to cook from scratch as the convenience is just better than the small boost in nutrition/flavor.  Canned tomatoes and spaghetti sauces are prime among them.  Look at the ingredients, and avoid the HFCS and salty ones.
 
2022-09-25 10:34:53 AM  
Whole Foods - there's your problem.

I do agree with restaurant prices getting a bit much, particularly when they tack on 18% or more for "tips". On the other hand, we stopped at our favorite Thai place yesterday because we were up in the area and three dishes, ~$40, will provide six meals, each, for my wife and I.
 
2022-09-25 10:40:02 AM  

EnderWiggnz: drjekel_mrhyde: The lady in the article went from making fresh tomato sauce to the jar kind. That's not healthier.  She went from bulk to shiat on sale. No real savings there. Bulk chicken is still cheaper than buying chicken on sale.
/The people that thought ahead brought a deep freezer a decade ago.

There are som things that just aren't worth the time to cook from scratch as the convenience is just better than the small boost in nutrition/flavor.  Canned tomatoes and spaghetti sauces are prime among them.  Look at the ingredients, and avoid the HFCS and salty ones.


I tend to disagree.
I mostly use canned tomatoes for 'red sauce'. Paul Newman's sauce....
Yup, I 'fancy it up, with a bit of ham, fresh onion, some dried herbs...a finish with flourish of fresh basil if we got it...
but  simmer 'all day' style. The Can isn't the problem. Heck, canned tomatos are often much better than crappy out of season 'fresh' tomatoes.
 
2022-09-25 10:59:05 AM  

optikeye: olrasputin: optikeye: olrasputin: Real cooks don't need anything but a bag of hydrogen atoms and an energy source.

Dude...That's one of the themes I won't be doing this Halloween for 'reasons'.
Tho, I have planned. I have some tubes, to stuff with 'stuff' and these lovely ceramic TV trays.
[images.vat19.com image 600x372]

Tho I make better food then that pale crap in the pic.

My (smart) dog might eat some of that. Maybe. (The dumb one would eat the farkin' tray too.)

one thing we suggested for the neice. for her "bake sale" was make dog biscuits for sale.
People will be dog biscuits instead of cat counter top grade school cookies.
And you can get clever little cookie cutters.
Plenty of recipes online to make up some paper bags for xmas gifts.

[Fark user image image 850x854]


When I had a dog, one of my dog park friends sold home made dog treats. They were basically baked oats and peanut butter. When we got home from the park one day, I was about to give the dog her treat. I looked at it and thought, "Dare I?" It was goddamned delicious. For the next few weeks, the dog gave me dirty looks for bogarting her treats.
 
2022-09-25 11:41:23 AM  
My conservative friends .like to make fun of me for cutting down on the amount of junk food I buy to offset the cost increase of healthy food.
 
2022-09-25 1:05:50 PM  

Man On A Mission: optikeye: Fast food is much cheaper than healthy 'fresh' foods.

Not even close. Is Home-Cooked Food Cheaper Than Fast Food? Yes.

[static01.nyt.com image 700x1351]


Yup. When I finally decided to start cooking for myself because I was sick of paying for takeout, I discovered it was not only cheaper but healthier.
 
2022-09-25 1:16:07 PM  

optikeye: EnderWiggnz: drjekel_mrhyde: The lady in the article went from making fresh tomato sauce to the jar kind. That's not healthier.  She went from bulk to shiat on sale. No real savings there. Bulk chicken is still cheaper than buying chicken on sale.
/The people that thought ahead brought a deep freezer a decade ago.

There are som things that just aren't worth the time to cook from scratch as the convenience is just better than the small boost in nutrition/flavor.  Canned tomatoes and spaghetti sauces are prime among them.  Look at the ingredients, and avoid the HFCS and salty ones.

I tend to disagree.
I mostly use canned tomatoes for 'red sauce'. Paul Newman's sauce....
Yup, I 'fancy it up, with a bit of ham, fresh onion, some dried herbs...a finish with flourish of fresh basil if we got it...
but  simmer 'all day' style. The Can isn't the problem. Heck, canned tomatos are often much better than crappy out of season 'fresh' tomatoes.


I have to disagree on this front too. One of my favorite things to cook is a Sunday gravy with sausage, pork chops and homemade meatballs. It's at least four hours in the kitchen and it is expensive with all of the ingredients, but it is so good, and there is something so satisfying and peaceful in the whole process. I can't wait until it cools down enough here to cook it again.
 
2022-09-25 1:21:01 PM  

The Exit Stencilist: offacue: FWIW, we usually get a nice loaf of french bread to go with sunday dinner but yesterday at the grocery store it was $5 a loaf so we didn't.  I suppose they're right you know.

For less than $3.00 you can buy a small bag of flour and some yeast and make a few French boules. But I realize that's too difficult for most Americans who prefer everything to be premade and as ultra-processed with preservatives and fillers as possible


We make lots of bread.  In the oven and in the Zojirushi bread machine.  We are currently without an oven because the kitchen is going to be remodeled.  Also, a 4 lb. (used to be 5 lb.) bag of King Arthur bread flour is up to $7.
 
2022-09-25 1:26:17 PM  

optikeye: [cdn.cnn.com image 850x478]
JFC if you're buying 3 farken gallons of milk before it goes bad. You have a breeding problem, not a bread problem.
Oh...but nice call on the "Symbolic Sacrificial" asparagus .


is that ball on top of the La Croix an avocado, or my inky black heart?
 
2022-09-25 1:58:44 PM  

optikeye: Fast food is much cheaper than healthy 'fresh' foods.
Unless you're talking a bag of beans and a sack of rice...because if you are, fark you.

/and I can make a dang beans and rice stuff. It's can just get boring tho.


Actually, both HEB and Spouts will put bagged salads on clearance for half price. 2 bucks for a complete salad does beat 5 bucks for a 🍔.  Why is 🍞 & a fatty patty 5 bucks? Seriously wtf!!!!!
 
2022-09-25 2:00:11 PM  

optikeye: [cdn.cnn.com image 850x478]
JFC if you're buying 3 farken gallons of milk before it goes bad. You have a breeding problem, not a bread problem.
Oh...but nice call on the "Symbolic Sacrificial" asparagus .


When I was a kid I drank milk like it was water.
My ex didn't.
My mom didn't.
Guess who both lost teeth and who didn't
 
2022-09-25 2:01:33 PM  

optikeye: ..and you know you can buy Lettuce 'outside the bag', buy the head but for much cheaper. Crazy, yeah I know.
And WTF is up with "La Croix" designer water. Geeze. Your problem isn't 'high food costs' lady...it's *you*.


Hay some people need bubbles.
Hell i only drink beer for the bubbles.
Because it has more bubbles and bubble water cost more than beer.
 
2022-09-25 2:03:33 PM  

Man On A Mission: optikeye: Fast food is much cheaper than healthy 'fresh' foods.

Not even close. Is Home-Cooked Food Cheaper Than Fast Food? Yes.

[static01.nyt.com image 700x1351]


Those numbers leave out a stocked pantry. Without that all that food is going to be bland.
Boiled plain no salt food taste like hell.
 
2022-09-25 2:06:18 PM  

The Exit Stencilist: offacue: FWIW, we usually get a nice loaf of french bread to go with sunday dinner but yesterday at the grocery store it was $5 a loaf so we didn't.  I suppose they're right you know.

For less than $3.00 you can buy a small bag of flour and some yeast and make a few French boules. But I realize that's too difficult for most Americans who prefer everything to be premade and as ultra-processed with preservatives and fillers as possible


I was making Naan from scratch last summer.  But. Sometimes you don't have time. Ended up with the raw goods going bad.
 
2022-09-25 2:08:06 PM  

TheOmni: You want to eat healthy, cheap, and easy? Try the potato diet. Just eat potatoes. That's it. Just potatoes. It actually works.


Actually 🥑 would be better
 
2022-09-25 2:10:04 PM  

optikeye: olrasputin: Real cooks don't need anything but a bag of hydrogen atoms and an energy source.

Dude...That's one of the themes I won't be doing this Halloween for 'reasons'.
Tho, I have planned. I have some tubes, to stuff with 'stuff' and these lovely ceramic TV trays.
[images.vat19.com image 600x372]

Tho I make better food then that pale crap in the pic.


Put the meat where the fruit is. Place vegetables in all remaining slots. Fixed that for you.  You'll live longer.
 
2022-09-25 2:52:08 PM  

waxbeans: Put the meat where the fruit is. Place vegetables in all remaining slots. Fixed that for you.  You'll live longer.


Oh yeah....I get more years to spend drooling in bed with diapers looking for the remote. What's the point there?
 
2022-09-25 3:10:58 PM  

optikeye: SuperSeriousMan: optikeye: Nothing you do for "Healthy" isn't going to make a dang bit of diffrence if the kids (or others) don't actually eat it.

How to tell everyone you're a bad cook without telling everyone you're a bad cook.

I've won stuff from https://food52.com/ for wining recipe contest.
And had recipes published in the NYT cook book.
I've mucked out more barns, and delt with more catfish/trout ponds than you'll ever know.
And stung by BEES gathering honey from their supers. COWS have tried to kill me when feeding them.
But go on....

(I'd really like a "Super" again...but we don't have farmland nearby for the BEES)


Now tell us about your award-winning writing.
 
2022-09-25 3:13:47 PM  

waxbeans: optikeye: [cdn.cnn.com image 850x478]
JFC if you're buying 3 farken gallons of milk before it goes bad. You have a breeding problem, not a bread problem.
Oh...but nice call on the "Symbolic Sacrificial" asparagus .

When I was a kid I drank milk like it was water.
My ex didn't.
My mom didn't.
Guess who both lost teeth and who didn't


Are the two of you actually different people?
 
2022-09-25 3:34:17 PM  

optikeye: waxbeans: Put the meat where the fruit is. Place vegetables in all remaining slots. Fixed that for you.  You'll live longer.

Oh yeah....I get more years to spend drooling in bed with diapers looking for the remote. What's the point there?


Fair point 😎🍸
 
2022-09-25 3:36:09 PM  

assjuice: waxbeans: optikeye: [cdn.cnn.com image 850x478]
JFC if you're buying 3 farken gallons of milk before it goes bad. You have a breeding problem, not a bread problem.
Oh...but nice call on the "Symbolic Sacrificial" asparagus .

When I was a kid I drank milk like it was water.
My ex didn't.
My mom didn't.
Guess who both lost teeth and who didn't

Are the two of you actually different people?


My mom and my ex both brushed their teeth and the ex flossed. I didn't.  But I did drink milk like it was water when I was a kid. They lost a tooth each. I didn't.
 
2022-09-25 3:58:06 PM  

optikeye: drjekel_mrhyde: The lady in the article went from making fresh tomato sauce to the jar kind. That's not healthier.  She went from bulk to shiat on sale. No real savings there. Bulk chicken is still cheaper than buying chicken on sale.
/The people that thought ahead brought a deep freezer a decade ago.

LOL...
The electricity cost of a deep freezer is expensive.
And for the chest model...stuff tends to get overlooked and languashes in the bottom of the freezer, lurking.


No, it's not, at all.  The average upright freezer uses 45W on average, that's around the cost savings from 2 meals based on what I can save by buying a half cow with my brothers. Heck, the purchase price and operating cost for the first decade get paid off in the first order or two.
 
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