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(Some Guy)   It's probably a good time to invest in inhaler manufacturers   (itnonline.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Lung, long COVID, low-field MRI, functional lung, persistent lung damage, Heart, Q match, World Health Organization  
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4446 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Sep 2022 at 8:15 AM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-09-24 3:06:36 AM  
Well those are some scary looking images for recovered kid's lungs.  They are saying blood flow matches air flow in 82% of lung areas in kids that never had covid but only 60% in those that recovered or have long covid. An odd stat that sticks out to me is the kids with long covid are breathing far more. Both the recovered and and long have a much wider band of change in blood flow.
 
2022-09-24 8:22:00 AM  
Teens?

What ohm vape are they using?
 
2022-09-24 8:23:22 AM  
Interesting, but a rather small study group and control group of 9? Needs more data.

Also, this stood out:
"All but one of the patients had been unvaccinated at the time of original infection."
 
2022-09-24 8:23:40 AM  
it is fun.
 
2022-09-24 8:37:00 AM  
Nah, it must be OK, the government says we don't even need to wear masks at the doctor's office and you no longer have to have proof of vaccination for international travel.  Obviously it's over because the politicians caved to the morons who said it was.  That's how you defeat a pandemic!
 
2022-09-24 8:43:06 AM  

HighlanderRPI: Also, this stood out:
"All but one of the patients had been unvaccinated at the time of original infection."


Consistent with what we know of vaccination - it improves your odds, it is not a perfect shield.  Which feeds right back to herd immunity - it's important everyone stay up to date on vaccinations to reduce the odds of exposure for people who remain vulnerable.

You only stop vaccinating when the vaccines are statistically doing more harm than good, and we are a LONG way from that point.
 
2022-09-24 8:51:13 AM  

Unsung_Hero: HighlanderRPI: Also, this stood out:
"All but one of the patients had been unvaccinated at the time of original infection."

Consistent with what we know of vaccination - it improves your odds, it is not a perfect shield.  Which feeds right back to herd immunity - it's important everyone stay up to date on vaccinations to reduce the odds of exposure for people who remain vulnerable.

You only stop vaccinating when the vaccines are statistically doing more harm than good, and we are a LONG way from that point.


Well, either that, or take horse dewormer.

/s [do I really need that?]

F*ck COVID.
 
2022-09-24 8:51:53 AM  

HighlanderRPI: Interesting, but a rather small study group and control group of 9? Needs more data.

Also, this stood out:
"All but one of the patients had been unvaccinated at the time of original infection."


Mean age was 11 years.  So at least one was under 12.  Those kids didn't even have a chance to be vaccinated until November of 2021, after most schools ended virtual learning.

It was an awful time to be a concerned parent.
 
2022-09-24 8:55:55 AM  
It's a great time to be in the medical debt collection business!

Great rates of return, low overhead, and a steady supply of covid deniers who "did their own research".
 
2022-09-24 8:59:40 AM  

Glorious Golden Ass: It was an awful time to be a concerned parent.


I am incredibly relieved that my kids were in the right age window.  Old enough not to be stunted by remote learning, old enough to be responsible with mask usage and social distancing, young enough they didn't have to worry about employment, etc.  Beyond that, my kids are just introverted enough they could handle it without going squirelly.  Plenty of people were getting cabin fever.

We're going to see a lot of kids with some retarded education and socialization (and fark off, this is exactly what the word is for, check the farking dictionary).  AND probably some COVID issues for the rest of their lives.

/also 'concerned parent' is a phase that ends when you're dead, you always worry about your kids unless there's something wrong with you.  Remember that when you're thinking of having some.  Or when you next call your mom or dad.
 
2022-09-24 9:00:49 AM  
It's been weeks since I had Covid, and I still get short of breath and have coughing fits if I strain either my voice or lungs too much.  It's like I have been smoking my whole life, and I have never smoked a day in my life.

Hopefully it will get better.

I imagine it isn't gonna be too hot on people who were smoking their whole life who get this.
 
2022-09-24 9:13:08 AM  

HighlanderRPI: Interesting, but a rather small study group and control group of 9? Needs more data.

Also, this stood out:
"All but one of the patients had been unvaccinated at the time of original infection."


Yeah, that definitely worries me. I had Covid before a vaccine existed. 3 months no smell/taste, and a shorter time of breathing issues. How did it tweak my brain? Are my lungs actually fine? Why the hell am I still working with the general public where people are too stupid to go through the drive thru to get their meds when covid positive?
 
2022-09-24 9:48:03 AM  
But. . .but. . .<insert politician's name here> said. . .
 
2022-09-24 9:54:06 AM  
How will they fight in our next wars?
 
2022-09-24 10:31:37 AM  
Free-breathing phase-resolved functional lung (PREFUL)

Someone ditched their Acronyms 101 class.
 
2022-09-24 10:50:51 AM  
Please, the real money's in insulin! Those stupid poors will pay anything to stay alive!
 
2022-09-24 10:51:09 AM  
To me, this is more proof that this virus  naturally transferred from animal to human and was not some kind of lab experiment. Anyone who's had pets like me and has accidentally caught an infection from them from a claw mark or a bite knows what a pain in the ass that is, I had to go through three kinds of antibiotics to get rid of it and that was just a bacterial infection, not virus.
 
2022-09-24 10:55:06 AM  
It's time to demand leadership do something irrespective of the political cost.  That's convertase driven lung Injury and it will continue indefinitely.

One of the things that freaks me out about Covid is that it should be doing that damage wherever reservoirs of persistence exist.  SARS and MERS were both largely confined to the lungs.  SARS-CoV-2 knows no such restrictions.
 
2022-09-24 11:07:30 AM  
And yet we have jackasses like DeSantis yelling at teens at his press conferences to remove their masks.

TFG, his staff and the morans that vote R all helped kill a million Americans and no one will ever be held accountable for their foot dragging, lying, misleading, quack remedies and deliberate defiance of well understood and accepted medical procedures. Yeah, lets all stick UV light bulbs up our ass, eat horse dewormer and drink bleach.
 
2022-09-24 11:08:05 AM  
I received the new bivalent booster shot last night and the side effects are kicking my ass today. Still better than catching COVID.

Get your vaccinations and boosters, folks. If not for your own health, then for those who can't.
 
2022-09-24 11:20:30 AM  

LarryDan43: How will they fight in our next wars?


They'll sit at a desk fly drones and control robot armies.
 
2022-09-24 11:33:19 AM  

winedrinkingman: It's been weeks since I had Covid, and I still get short of breath and have coughing fits if I strain either my voice or lungs too much.  It's like I have been smoking my whole life, and I have never smoked a day in my life.

Hopefully it will get better.

I imagine it isn't gonna be too hot on people who were smoking their whole life who get this.


I had a mild case, got well and then at 5 months my lungs were so crapped up I had a blood oxygen level of 90. Go get a Albuterol inhaler and a steroid inhaler. Also drink a lot of hydrating liquids.
 
2022-09-24 11:53:51 AM  

HighlanderRPI: Interesting, but a rather small study group and control group of 9? Needs more data.

Also, this stood out:
"All but one of the patients had been unvaccinated at the time of original infection."


We do need a larger study to be done.

But, the pandemic is over. Where are you going to find the patients? /s
 
2022-09-24 11:59:18 AM  

Caelistis: I received the new bivalent booster shot last night and the side effects are kicking my ass today. Still better than catching COVID.

Get your vaccinations and boosters, folks. If not for your own health, then for those who can't.


I got wise this time. The original shots were NBD, but the boosters all absolutely wrecked me for 24 hours. So I got my bivalent booster scheduled for Tuesday evening, and I already took Wednesday off of work.
 
2022-09-24 12:07:17 PM  

Unsung_Hero: HighlanderRPI: Also, this stood out:
"All but one of the patients had been unvaccinated at the time of original infection."

Consistent with what we know of vaccination - it improves your odds, it is not a perfect shield.  Which feeds right back to herd immunity - it's important everyone stay up to date on vaccinations to reduce the odds of exposure for people who remain vulnerable.

You only stop vaccinating when the vaccines are statistically doing more harm than good, and we are a LONG way from that point.


The "herd immunity" ship sailed a long time ago. That requires an immune response which blocks transmission, and high enough coverage that the unprotected fraction is below the inverse of R0. So for an R0 of 4, you can have at most 1/4 of the community susceptible to the disease.

Before Delta showed up it might have been possible to reach herd immunity, but SARS-CoV-2 now has a really high R0 and immunity (whether from vaccination or prior infection) fades very quickly. Even more so when you consider the rate at which new variants are evolving now that the world (except China) has thrown in the towel on even attempting to slow it down. A herd which might be immune to an early variant is not well protected against BA.2.75.2 or whatever comes next.

Vaccines do probably have some benefit in reducing the amount of time for which you're contagious (in addition to protecting against severe illness and death) but they aren't going to stop transmission during the first phase of the infection before your immune memory cells wake up. Things may change in the future if a next-generation vaccine (e.g. a nasal spray) can restore the efficacy we saw with the mRNA vaccines vs. the early variants, but we can't count on that happening.
 
2022-09-24 12:08:19 PM  
Interesting. The sample size was kind of small, though. I wonder if there are similar studies out there.
 
2022-09-24 12:45:08 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-24 12:54:33 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Unsung_Hero: HighlanderRPI: Also, this stood out:
"All but one of the patients had been unvaccinated at the time of original infection."

Consistent with what we know of vaccination - it improves your odds, it is not a perfect shield.  Which feeds right back to herd immunity - it's important everyone stay up to date on vaccinations to reduce the odds of exposure for people who remain vulnerable.

You only stop vaccinating when the vaccines are statistically doing more harm than good, and we are a LONG way from that point.

The "herd immunity" ship sailed a long time ago. That requires an immune response which blocks transmission, and high enough coverage that the unprotected fraction is below the inverse of R0. So for an R0 of 4, you can have at most 1/4 of the community susceptible to the disease.

Before Delta showed up it might have been possible to reach herd immunity, but SARS-CoV-2 now has a really high R0 and immunity (whether from vaccination or prior infection) fades very quickly. Even more so when you consider the rate at which new variants are evolving now that the world (except China) has thrown in the towel on even attempting to slow it down. A herd which might be immune to an early variant is not well protected against BA.2.75.2 or whatever comes next.

Vaccines do probably have some benefit in reducing the amount of time for which you're contagious (in addition to protecting against severe illness and death) but they aren't going to stop transmission during the first phase of the infection before your immune memory cells wake up. Things may change in the future if a next-generation vaccine (e.g. a nasal spray) can restore the efficacy we saw with the mRNA vaccines vs. the early variants, but we can't count on that happening.


The Bivalent Booster is 93.2% effective against the predominant BA4 and BA5 variants.
 
2022-09-24 1:06:33 PM  

hardinparamedic: The Bivalent Booster is 93.2% effective against the predominant BA4 and BA5 variants.


Based on what?

The prespecified primary immunogenicity objectives were to show neutralizing antibody responses that were noninferior to 50-μg mRNA-1273 (on the basis of geometric mean titer ratio and difference in the percentage of participants with a seroresponse) [...]

In other words it's a relative comparison to the previous vaccines in terms of blood antibody levels.

That is not the same as the efficacy at preventing any symptomatic COVID (the primary endpoint of the original vaccine trials) or the efficacy at preventing transmission (not part of any clinical trial, but some later studies did obtain retrospective estimates).
 
2022-09-24 1:21:18 PM  

Ivo Shandor: That is not the same as the efficacy at preventing any symptomatic COVID (the primary endpoint of the original vaccine trials) or the efficacy at preventing transmission (not part of any clinical trial, but some later studies did obtain retrospective estimates).


Appears to be 98% protection from symptomatic COVID at 6 months based on modeling. Of course, we'll have to wait to see if that actually pans out.
 
2022-09-24 1:22:29 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Based on what?


You do know the methodology is right there in the paper?
 
2022-09-24 1:28:16 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Unsung_Hero: HighlanderRPI: Also, this stood out:
"All but one of the patients had been unvaccinated at the time of original infection."

Consistent with what we know of vaccination - it improves your odds, it is not a perfect shield.  Which feeds right back to herd immunity - it's important everyone stay up to date on vaccinations to reduce the odds of exposure for people who remain vulnerable.

You only stop vaccinating when the vaccines are statistically doing more harm than good, and we are a LONG way from that point.

The "herd immunity" ship sailed a long time ago. That requires an immune response which blocks transmission, and high enough coverage that the unprotected fraction is below the inverse of R0. So for an R0 of 4, you can have at most 1/4 of the community susceptible to the disease.

Before Delta showed up it might have been possible to reach herd immunity, but SARS-CoV-2 now has a really high R0 and immunity (whether from vaccination or prior infection) fades very quickly. Even more so when you consider the rate at which new variants are evolving now that the world (except China) has thrown in the towel on even attempting to slow it down. A herd which might be immune to an early variant is not well protected against BA.2.75.2 or whatever comes next.

Vaccines do probably have some benefit in reducing the amount of time for which you're contagious (in addition to protecting against severe illness and death) but they aren't going to stop transmission during the first phase of the infection before your immune memory cells wake up. Things may change in the future if a next-generation vaccine (e.g. a nasal spray) can restore the efficacy we saw with the mRNA vaccines vs. the early variants, but we can't count on that happening.


We must slow it down.  The only other option is extinction, or at the very least societal collapse such that distant communities stop interacting with one another.
 
2022-09-24 1:29:57 PM  

hardinparamedic: Ivo Shandor: That is not the same as the efficacy at preventing any symptomatic COVID (the primary endpoint of the original vaccine trials) or the efficacy at preventing transmission (not part of any clinical trial, but some later studies did obtain retrospective estimates).

Appears to be 98% protection from symptomatic COVID at 6 months based on modeling. Of course, we'll have to wait to see if that actually pans out.


Your paper says "an average of 98% protection from severe disease", not symptomatic. Which is great, and a damn good reason to get boosted. But stopping transmission is an even higher bar than stopping symptomatic disease, given that asymptomatic transmission is well-documented.
 
2022-09-24 1:32:38 PM  

hardinparamedic: Ivo Shandor: Based on what?

You do know the methodology is right there in the paper?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-24 1:33:39 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Your paper says "an average of 98% protection from severe disease", not symptomatic. Which is great, and a damn good reason to get boosted. But stopping transmission is an even higher bar than stopping symptomatic disease, given that asymptomatic transmission is well-documented.


I'm trying to assume positive intent here, and not see this as "it's not perfect so why do it" kind of anti-vax argument used for things like seasonal influenza. I've spent too much time on Reddit and FARK where this is the kind of thing being put forward.

Can you clarify what you mean by this bar? Is it a metric of we need to have this as a measure, we can do better; or is it the later?
 
2022-09-24 1:50:46 PM  

hardinparamedic: Can you clarify what you mean by this bar? Is it a metric of we need to have this as a measure, we can do better; or is it the later?


I mean that it's harder to accomplish with a vaccine. If you can stop 90% of symptomatic disease, you might be stopping 95% of severe disease and 99% of death. However you might only be stopping 75% of the cases which build up enough of a viral load to be contagious before the immune response kicks in.

And if you measure again a few months later and find that your vaccine is now only 70% effective vs. symptomatic disease, then it's likely that the other measures have gone down as well. Not necessarily by the same amount, but in the same direction. So it might now be 97% vs death, 89% vs. severe, 50% vs transmission.

I could be wrong on the ordering of transmission-efficacy vs. symptomatic-efficacy. It's clearer with the other measures, since there is a natural progression there. You have to have symptomatic disease before it can become severe, and you will usually pass through severe disease on the way to death.
 
2022-09-24 2:06:58 PM  

LarryDan43: How will they fight in our next wars?


You may or may not have noticed that investment in the type of GPUs necessary to replace the common laborer is a centerpiece of Biden's economic plan for America.  If you have not noticed, you should notice now.  Even if you think you're so highly skilled that it won't affect you, understand that when the laborers are gone, they'll no longer buy the products and services that support your paycheck.
 
2022-09-24 3:02:31 PM  

backhand.slap.of.reason: LarryDan43: How will they fight in our next wars?

You may or may not have noticed that investment in the type of GPUs necessary to replace the common laborer is a centerpiece of Biden's economic plan for America.  If you have not noticed, you should notice now.  Even if you think you're so highly skilled that it won't affect you, understand that when the laborers are gone, they'll no longer buy the products and services that support your paycheck.


There is a lot that AI can not do.

Digging ditches, filling holes, shoveling crap, changing diapers, feeding patients, etc.

There will always be jobs for those with strong backs, and willing to work.
 
2022-09-24 3:58:03 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Vaccines do probably have some benefit in reducing the amount of time for which you're contagious (in addition to protecting against severe illness and death) but they aren't going to stop transmission during the first phase of the infection before your immune memory cells wake up.


It's probably a wash as far as that goes. Who will spread more: someone who is symptomatic and infectious for a longer period, or asymptomatic but infectious for a shorter period? Given that most spread is from asymptomatic infection anyway I think it stands to reason the latter, especially given the majority in developed nations have had at least two shots.
Another point is whether waning "immunity" is actually driving infections in general. I ran across a paper the other day detailing the relative infectiousness for various concentrations of therapeutic antibody serums. Low-to-no concentration lead to infection, obviously, and high antibody levels greatly diminished infectiousness as expected. But there was a concentration in between (and below therapeutic dosage) on the log scale that greatly increased infectiousness al a ADE!After thinking about it for a while it occurred to me that this very same effect may occur in cases of waning "immunity", and that it might actually drive pandemic spread all on its own, beyond the simple advantage of switching to a more immune-evasive variant. In fact, it would seem to imply an evolved trait specifically tailored toward reinfection in general! This follows along with something I said when all this began, that once you have a critical mass of infection that pandemic can no longer be stopped without source control. There is just too much hysteresis in the entire infection chain and reinfection intervals would be too short to burn through the entire susceptible population before it's your turn again.Maybe that's omicron's trick? That the junk antibodies people make are actually enhancing infectiousness in general, and once the entire spectrum of antibodies taper off to a certain concentration you'll be highly likely to get infected again? Is this why BA1 took off instead of BA2, even though BA2 has at least twice the base infectiousness and even more immune evasion? And what of BA3? One of the only papers I could find on it mentioned it was over 1000x as immune-evasive as BA1, but it has yet to reach >1% concentration anywhere it is sampled since it was found ten months ago.The question of the omicron triumvirate has greatly puzzled me since this phase of the pandemic, but the idea of ADE driving the switch-over of major omicron variants makes sense now.
 
2022-09-24 4:22:29 PM  

backhand.slap.of.reason: The only other option is extinction, or at the very least societal collapse such that distant communities stop interacting with one another.


Called it a while back. Disparate regions will have their own little self-sustaining corona microcosms* not unlike how you get sick drinking local water in another country. Eventually international travel becomes impossible without grave risk of illness, and that will further drive wedges between nations. This phase of the "no a longer pandemic" pandemic will kick in as soon a immune-evasion convergence wraps up in the BA2 lineage and it begins exploring lethality as a final frontier.

/*see also delta and BA.2.75 prevalence in India well before all other nations
 
2022-09-24 8:59:04 PM  

AlphaG33k: SicTransitGloria: G33k

define functioning...living like slaves, on a subsistence level? working 18 hour shifts in the crap shoveling factory?

getting anal swabs to prove you are covid negative?

no thank you. hope you still have a good health plan, or in the states, what passes for one.


You have weird fetish fantasies.
 
2022-09-24 9:52:40 PM  

hardinparamedic: AlphaG33k: SicTransitGloria: G33k

define functioning...living like slaves, on a subsistence level? working 18 hour shifts in the crap shoveling factory?

getting anal swabs to prove you are covid negative?

no thank you. hope you still have a good health plan, or in the states, what passes for one.

You have weird fetish fantasies.


Why are you kink shaming?
 
2022-09-24 11:20:31 PM  

hardinparamedic: AlphaG33k: SicTransitGloria: G33k

define functioning...living like slaves, on a subsistence level? working 18 hour shifts in the crap shoveling factory?

getting anal swabs to prove you are covid negative?

no thank you. hope you still have a good health plan, or in the states, what passes for one.

You have weird fetish fantasies.


Uh, that's how it is in China...Mr Ben Dover is conducting the Covid Testing...
 
2022-09-25 12:01:00 AM  

AlphaG33k: hardinparamedic: AlphaG33k: SicTransitGloria: G33k

define functioning...living like slaves, on a subsistence level? working 18 hour shifts in the crap shoveling factory?

getting anal swabs to prove you are covid negative?

no thank you. hope you still have a good health plan, or in the states, what passes for one.

You have weird fetish fantasies.

Uh, that's how it is in China...Mr Ben Dover is conducting the Covid Testing...


So I guess if you're into ass play in China, Jackpot?
 
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