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(CNN)   Church of England has a problem with same-sex marriage, presumably due to insufficient number of divorces and/or beheadings   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Stupid, Anglican Communion, Anglicanism, Same-sex marriage, Book of Common Prayer, Bishop, Tutu van Furth, open letter, Church of England  
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1522 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Sep 2022 at 9:45 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-09-23 9:47:33 PM  
They can sod off.
 
2022-09-23 9:47:45 PM  
Hooray for Boobies

/vodak
 
2022-09-23 9:53:06 PM  
Here's a perfect opportunity for King Charles to step forward and prove his claims about modernisation.
 
2022-09-23 9:53:39 PM  
That doesn't sound like something Jesus would do.
 
2022-09-23 9:56:23 PM  

Gordon Bennett: Here's a perfect opportunity for King Charles to step forward and prove his claims about modernisation.


He might have been all white with doing that for someone else but I doubt he will in this case.
 
2022-09-23 9:57:13 PM  
I knew that losing the only woman heading a Church with a major world would have consequence.  Maybe Charles III can direct his church to find a way.
 
2022-09-23 9:58:54 PM  
But... they weren't  being asked to hold one?

Anglican churches are currently in an acute membership crisis. Many vicars service 2 or 3 churches because there are so few parishioners. Good luck with that, if you continue like this...
 
2022-09-23 10:00:42 PM  

Gordon Bennett: Here's a perfect opportunity for King Charles to step forward and prove his claims about modernisation.


Prince Charles doesn't care about black people.
 
2022-09-23 10:03:04 PM  
> We acknowledge this is a difficult situation.

No you don't.

You don't care.

And you like it that way.

That's why it's a problem and that's why people keep leaving faith.
 
2022-09-23 10:08:41 PM  
As an atheist who would like religion to just go away of its own accord, rather than me having to be mean to them. I approve of this.
 
2022-09-23 10:09:10 PM  
So burn the church down
 
2022-09-23 10:10:58 PM  
So?
 
2022-09-23 10:11:00 PM  
YAAAAS KWEEN!!
 
2022-09-23 10:11:13 PM  
Did they run out of cake?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-23 10:19:15 PM  
A bunch of (mainly) men "married" to the church, who worship a guy and his dad and they complain about same-sex marriages?

Hmmmm...
 
2022-09-23 10:26:04 PM  

Archie Goodwin: A bunch of (mainly) men "married" to the church, who worship a guy and his dad and they complain about same-sex marriages?

Hmmmm...



They aren't Catholics.

Most Anglican vicars are married (to women) although a few are to men.

That's part of why this ruling is so peculiar. The Council of Bishops' decision to not allow equal marriage rarely infringes on gay priesthood from performing duties.

The fact it's in Shropshire - the whitest of white counties - pings other 'dars for me.
 
2022-09-23 10:26:51 PM  

Bungles: Most Anglican vicars are married (to women) although a few are to men.


(and vice versa, obviously)
 
2022-09-23 10:40:45 PM  

Bungles: Archie Goodwin: A bunch of (mainly) men "married" to the church, who worship a guy and his dad and they complain about same-sex marriages?

Hmmmm...


They aren't Catholics.

Most Anglican vicars are married (to women) although a few are to men.

That's part of why this ruling is so peculiar. The Council of Bishops' decision to not allow equal marriage rarely infringes on gay priesthood from performing duties.

The fact it's in Shropshire - the whitest of white counties - pings other 'dars for me.


Gah. You are correct. What was I thinking?
 
2022-09-23 10:43:07 PM  

Gordon Bennett: Here's a perfect opportunity for King Charles to step forward and prove his claims about modernisation.


he's got fark all influence, come on
 
2022-09-23 10:48:27 PM  

Archie Goodwin: Bungles: Archie Goodwin: A bunch of (mainly) men "married" to the church, who worship a guy and his dad and they complain about same-sex marriages?

Hmmmm...


They aren't Catholics.

Most Anglican vicars are married (to women) although a few are to men.

That's part of why this ruling is so peculiar. The Council of Bishops' decision to not allow equal marriage rarely infringes on gay priesthood from performing duties.

The fact it's in Shropshire - the whitest of white counties - pings other 'dars for me.

Gah. You are correct. What was I thinking?


Keeping Up Appearances is your reference.

static.tvmaze.comView Full Size


Hyacinth's sister Rose has a major crush on the Vicar (and just about every other man) and despite the Vicar resisting he always gets stuck in a compromising position when his wife shows up.
 
2022-09-23 10:49:18 PM  

Bungles: But... they weren't  being asked to hold one?

Anglican churches are currently in an acute membership crisis. Many vicars service 2 or 3 churches because there are so few parishioners. Good luck with that, if you continue like this...


Anglican churches are growing.....

In Africa.

The average Anglican is an African woman.  The strong streak of conservative, anti-LGBT policies keep that branch of the Church in the fold.

They tolerate the American Episcopalians and the liberal nonsense of recognizing the humanity of others for the money they provide.  Too bad that Church is shrinking fast too.
 
2022-09-23 10:52:25 PM  
CoE is against same-sex marriage? That seems weird. I thought those guys were pretty liberal (and that was one reason why the worldwide Anglican Church is in danger of schism). Almost all the old mainline Protestant churches in the USA are okay with it.
 
2022-09-23 10:53:09 PM  

Snort: Bungles: But... they weren't  being asked to hold one?

Anglican churches are currently in an acute membership crisis. Many vicars service 2 or 3 churches because there are so few parishioners. Good luck with that, if you continue like this...

Anglican churches are growing.....

In Africa.

The average Anglican is an African woman.  The strong streak of conservative, anti-LGBT policies keep that branch of the Church in the fold.

They tolerate the American Episcopalians and the liberal nonsense of recognizing the humanity of others for the money they provide.  Too bad that Church is shrinking fast too.



This is very true, but I don't think (I may well be wrong) they have an overriding power in the Council of Bishops, yet.

Especially when dealing with an event in the UK.

I feel strings are being pulled.
 
2022-09-23 10:54:32 PM  

Gordon Bennett: Here's a perfect opportunity for King Charles to step forward and prove his claims about modernisation.


I don't know if he actually can issue directives to the church. He could appoint some new officials who could do things about it, but that'd also be circumventing the Prime Minister and a few other bureaucracies.
 
2022-09-23 10:56:45 PM  

JammerJim: CoE is against same-sex marriage? That seems weird. I thought those guys were pretty liberal (and that was one reason why the worldwide Anglican Church is in danger of schism). Almost all the old mainline Protestant churches in the USA are okay with it.



This sounds like complicated internal politics. If Tutu hadn't been connected, I strongly doubt this would have occurred.
 
2022-09-23 11:11:19 PM  
Tutu van Furth was ordained in the US Episcopal Church in Alexandria, Virginia in 2004. The Episcopal Church, which, like the Church of England, is part of the Anglican Communion, allows its clergy to enter into same-sex marriage.

I'm kind of confused by this. But isn't the Archbishop of Canterbury - currently Justin Welby - the head of the Anglican Communion, much as the Pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church?

And if the CofE doesn't like gay marriage, does that mean they've been using the Reverend Richard Coles merely as some kind of gaywashing tool since he started reappearing in the media for the first time since the Communards back in the day? He promises he stays celibate, and is so devout he even refuses to do swears when he's on t'telly.

The Communards - Don't Leave Me This Way (with Sarah Jane Morris) (Official Video)
Youtube 1RHBAd5YUR8


/It's almost like all religions are piles of crap.
 
2022-09-23 11:11:20 PM  
Hope she doesn't stay with a church that conflicts on such a basic level with what makes her happy and whole.
 
2022-09-23 11:15:04 PM  

replacementcool: So burn the church down


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-23 11:25:43 PM  

Cafe Threads: replacementcool: So burn the church down

[Fark user image image 425x425]


raahhh!  yass queen.
 
2022-09-23 11:30:04 PM  

Cafe Threads: replacementcool: So burn the church down

[Fark user image image 425x425]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-24 12:13:10 AM  
The last group to get their rights is often very reluctant to give the next group in line their rights.  You can't enjoy your progress if the Joneses are keeping up with you.
 
2022-09-24 12:40:28 AM  

iron de havilland: Tutu van Furth was ordained in the US Episcopal Church in Alexandria, Virginia in 2004. The Episcopal Church, which, like the Church of England, is part of the Anglican Communion, allows its clergy to enter into same-sex marriage.

I'm kind of confused by this. But isn't the Archbishop of Canterbury - currently Justin Welby - the head of the Anglican Communion, much as the Pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church?


The Anglican Communion isn't a single church like the Catholic Church, it's a collection of them and they each have their own policies. They work together to determine rites and liturgies and whatnot, but if the Archbishop of Canterbury says women aren't allowed to be bishops or gay people aren't allowed to be married then Episcopalians can just tell him to go suck a lemon.
 
2022-09-24 12:46:18 AM  
This isn't even a gay wedding or anything, it's a gay Episcopalian clergywoman (Tutu's daughter) asked to do her beloved godfather's funeral.  Anglicans and Episcopalians ordinarily recognize one another's clerics, except I guess when they're not straight.

It's good that she and the mourners were still able to hold a meaningful ceremony nearby, but come the fark on Church of England, it's not like you guys were founded on the idea of never breaking from established tradition
 
2022-09-24 12:47:35 AM  

morg: Hope she doesn't stay with a church that conflicts on such a basic level with what makes her happy and whole.


She's already in one.  That's how she's ordained.
 
2022-09-24 12:48:17 AM  

Inchoate: morg: Hope she doesn't stay with a church that conflicts on such a basic level with what makes her happy and whole.

She's already in one.  That's how she's ordained.


er, a church.  that respects who she is.  it's late on a friday night
 
2022-09-24 1:01:29 AM  

iron de havilland: Tutu van Furth was ordained in the US Episcopal Church in Alexandria, Virginia in 2004. The Episcopal Church, which, like the Church of England, is part of the Anglican Communion, allows its clergy to enter into same-sex marriage.

I'm kind of confused by this. But isn't the Archbishop of Canterbury - currently Justin Welby - the head of the Anglican Communion, much as the Pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church?

And if the CofE doesn't like gay marriage, does that mean they've been using the Reverend Richard Coles merely as some kind of gaywashing tool since he started reappearing in the media for the first time since the Communards back in the day? He promises he stays celibate, and is so devout he even refuses to do swears when he's on t'telly.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/1RHBAd5YUR8]

/It's almost like all religions are piles of crap.


Short answer is no. The American Episcopal church has its own Presiding Bishop, Michael Curry. Welby is respected but has no power outside the Church of England. (Closest analogue that comes to mind is a National leader visiting an ally, they're respected but have no real power there) The Communion is more a loose group with similar ideals, but a huge friction point is LGBTQ acceptance. Episcopal does, as do Anglican Church of Canada, Scottish and Irish Episcopal, for example.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_the_Anglican_Communion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_Communion
 
2022-09-24 1:07:59 AM  

Inchoate: Inchoate: morg: Hope she doesn't stay with a church that conflicts on such a basic level with what makes her happy and whole.

She's already in one.  That's how she's ordained.

er, a church.  that respects who she is.  it's late on a friday night


So if they were cool with her then, why not now? Has some rogue group of asshole priests gained control of the reins? This isn't closing time at a bar. If the booze has grabbed your head tonight I think I will like your hung-over view on it even better. All the raw extremes of a hang-over, nothing but a cup of coffee defends you.
 
2022-09-24 1:18:15 AM  

morg: Inchoate: Inchoate: morg: Hope she doesn't stay with a church that conflicts on such a basic level with what makes her happy and whole.

She's already in one.  That's how she's ordained.

er, a church.  that respects who she is.  it's late on a friday night

So if they were cool with her then, why not now? Has some rogue group of asshole priests gained control of the reins? This isn't closing time at a bar. If the booze has grabbed your head tonight I think I will like your hung-over view on it even better. All the raw extremes of a hang-over, nothing but a cup of coffee defends you.


o.0
 
2022-09-24 1:26:26 AM  

morg: Inchoate: Inchoate: morg: Hope she doesn't stay with a church that conflicts on such a basic level with what makes her happy and whole.

She's already in one.  That's how she's ordained.

er, a church.  that respects who she is.  it's late on a friday night

So if they were cool with her then, why not now? Has some rogue group of asshole priests gained control of the reins? This isn't closing time at a bar. If the booze has grabbed your head tonight I think I will like your hung-over view on it even better. All the raw extremes of a hang-over, nothing but a cup of coffee defends you.


Her church is Episcopalian, the one that's denying her is Church of England.
 
2022-09-24 1:39:13 AM  

iron de havilland: Tutu van Furth was ordained in the US Episcopal Church in Alexandria, Virginia in 2004. The Episcopal Church, which, like the Church of England, is part of the Anglican Communion, allows its clergy to enter into same-sex marriage.

I'm kind of confused by this. But isn't the Archbishop of Canterbury - currently Justin Welby - the head of the Anglican Communion, much as the Pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church?

And if the CofE doesn't like gay marriage, does that mean they've been using the Reverend Richard Coles merely as some kind of gaywashing tool since he started reappearing in the media for the first time since the Communards back in the day? He promises he stays celibate, and is so devout he even refuses to do swears when he's on t'telly.

[YouTube video: The Communards - Don't Leave Me This Way (with Sarah Jane Morris) (Official Video)]

/It's almost like all religions are piles of crap.


Anglican pope = King of England
 
2022-09-24 1:40:24 AM  

karl2025: morg: Inchoate: Inchoate: morg: Hope she doesn't stay with a church that conflicts on such a basic level with what makes her happy and whole.

She's already in one.  That's how she's ordained.

er, a church.  that respects who she is.  it's late on a friday night

So if they were cool with her then, why not now? Has some rogue group of asshole priests gained control of the reins? This isn't closing time at a bar. If the booze has grabbed your head tonight I think I will like your hung-over view on it even better. All the raw extremes of a hang-over, nothing but a cup of coffee defends you.

Her church is Episcopalian, the one that's denying her is Church of England.


Somehow that makes it even worse. Premier League is even more unwatchable.. Where do we even stand on lesbian porn?
 
2022-09-24 1:42:05 AM  

morg: karl2025: morg: Inchoate: Inchoate: morg: Hope she doesn't stay with a church that conflicts on such a basic level with what makes her happy and whole.

She's already in one.  That's how she's ordained.

er, a church.  that respects who she is.  it's late on a friday night

So if they were cool with her then, why not now? Has some rogue group of asshole priests gained control of the reins? This isn't closing time at a bar. If the booze has grabbed your head tonight I think I will like your hung-over view on it even better. All the raw extremes of a hang-over, nothing but a cup of coffee defends you.

Her church is Episcopalian, the one that's denying her is Church of England.

Somehow that makes it even worse. Premier League is even more unwatchable.. Where do we even stand on lesbian porn?

was

it maybelline?
 
2022-09-24 1:43:07 AM  
godammit fark
 
2022-09-24 4:13:01 AM  
It's to keep African churches happy. It's a recurring problem. The UK CoE is pretty liberal but its third world branches aren't.
 
2022-09-24 4:20:28 AM  

Lady J: Gordon Bennett: Here's a perfect opportunity for King Charles to step forward and prove his claims about modernisation.

he's got fark all influence, come on


If he were to publicly state opposition it'd still be quite a hairball for them - real power or no
 
2022-09-24 4:21:42 AM  

morg: karl2025: morg: Inchoate: Inchoate: morg: Hope she doesn't stay with a church that conflicts on such a basic level with what makes her happy and whole.

She's already in one.  That's how she's ordained.

er, a church.  that respects who she is.  it's late on a friday night

So if they were cool with her then, why not now? Has some rogue group of asshole priests gained control of the reins? This isn't closing time at a bar. If the booze has grabbed your head tonight I think I will like your hung-over view on it even better. All the raw extremes of a hang-over, nothing but a cup of coffee defends you.

Her church is Episcopalian, the one that's denying her is Church of England.

Somehow that makes it even worse. Premier League is even more unwatchable.. Where do we even stand on lesbian porn?


Only men can watch it, the actors are sinners of course, and women don't need to be getting ideas
 
2022-09-24 4:26:28 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Lady J: Gordon Bennett: Here's a perfect opportunity for King Charles to step forward and prove his claims about modernisation.

he's got fark all influence, come on

If he were to publicly state opposition it'd still be quite a hairball for them - real power or no


hairball lol!

I think they'd rapidly get over any early alarm/hesitation... nobody's calling divine right these days suuuurrely.  and he's not even been king 5 minutes.  no chance they're bending the knee or even appearing to consider it.
 
2022-09-24 4:35:09 AM  
This has been coming for a long time in any case.  CoE has policy-wise kowtowed to the African parts of the Anglican Communion.  All they're doing here is accelerating their own decline, at least in England and the United States.  Africa perhaps not, they've had their foot on that neck for a long time now

/no, not a "I'm not racist but..." post - they really have done so
//much like they have with several other denominations
///it's not a racial thing, it's a "They're oldschool fire-breathing maniacs and they've made a concerted effort to become the dominating force in more than one traditional protestant faith" thing
 
2022-09-24 4:41:13 AM  

Lady J: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Lady J: Gordon Bennett: Here's a perfect opportunity for King Charles to step forward and prove his claims about modernisation.

he's got fark all influence, come on

If he were to publicly state opposition it'd still be quite a hairball for them - real power or no

hairball lol!

I think they'd rapidly get over any early alarm/hesitation... nobody's calling divine right these days suuuurrely.  and he's not even been king 5 minutes.  no chance they're bending the knee or even appearing to consider it.


He is nonetheless the titular head of the CoE - and that raises problems.  Plenty of people that have no love for them that would be quite happy to fan the flames too. It'd also be problematic as the sovereign is specifically given power over worldly matters involving the church but not spiritual ones - so where would this fall?  Could be argued either way, and would be by those hoping to gain advantage out of the mess if it were to occur

/Unlikely to be a problem - can't see Charles sticking his neck out for anything at all frankly
 
2022-09-24 5:03:56 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Lady J: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Lady J: Gordon Bennett: Here's a perfect opportunity for King Charles to step forward and prove his claims about modernisation.

he's got fark all influence, come on

If he were to publicly state opposition it'd still be quite a hairball for them - real power or no

hairball lol!

I think they'd rapidly get over any early alarm/hesitation... nobody's calling divine right these days suuuurrely.  and he's not even been king 5 minutes.  no chance they're bending the knee or even appearing to consider it.

He is nonetheless the titular head of the CoE - and that raises problems.  Plenty of people that have no love for them that would be quite happy to fan the flames too. It'd also be problematic as the sovereign is specifically given power over worldly matters involving the church but not spiritual ones - so where would this fall?  Could be argued either way, and would be by those hoping to gain advantage out of the mess if it were to occur

/Unlikely to be a problem - can't see Charles sticking his neck out for anything at all frankly


I can't see him sticking his neck out about anything cos there wouldn't be any point.  their position is symbolic- or at least I'd be farking annoyed to find out it wasn't- and yeah he could raise quite a ruckus and there'd be those who'd love that.  but he'd be very unlikely to be successful, it'd destroy their image, and it'd harm the country- and I don't think he'd do that.

seeing the country's reaction to the queen dying, I've actually started to question how I feel about the royals' position.  I'm not anti royal, at all, and I saw them as on balance a positive.  but that's always been on the assumption they wielded no power.  basically... it would be absolutely unacceptable if they could affect a democratically made decision/process.  but there's been a far more feudal reaction to the queen dying than I'd have expected.
and I think it's time that lack of power was articulated- it's not appropriate in 2022 that there's even a symbolic perception of that.

tbh if they were smart they'd have taken this step themselves.  said... absolutely staying with the charities and the things that bring benefit, but this is a different time and a different Britain, and it's not appropriate that we're seen to sit in power over the great british people.

It would be a super smart move.
they have terrible strategy & PR.  imo
 
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