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(Twitter)   The General once responsible for training all of America's soldiers outlines the issues with grabbing up 300k conscripts and throwing them at the front line   (twitter.com) divider line
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7131 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 21 Sep 2022 at 2:35 PM (20 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-09-21 1:16:50 PM  
Original Tweet:

 
2022-09-21 1:23:09 PM  
When all you want are meat bags it doesn't matter how well they are trained.
 
2022-09-21 1:29:32 PM  
Live reenactments daily-make your reservations on line now.

Enemy at the gate; One out of tow gets a rifle, one without follows him
Youtube KMjYNKED0U0


Probably NSFW, unless you are in the Russian Army. Then it's considered a training film.
 
2022-09-21 1:29:35 PM  
Yes we've known this is a problem since George Washington wrote about hating to use militias because their training was non-existent and they were mostly just a resource suck.  It's also why we have that whole "Well Regulated" part of the 2nd Amendment that people like to skip over.

No, John Boy, you are not going to be anywhere near effective against a real fighting force.
 
2022-09-21 1:32:19 PM  

BizarreMan: When all you want are meat bags it doesn't matter how well they are trained.


If they haven't fired a rifle before they get to the front, I don't think they even qualify as cannon fodder. And their morale is nonexistent.

The whole twitter thread has some good info.
 
2022-09-21 1:34:33 PM  
I really wonder what's going through Putin's head with this.  It seems he's in full bore Moby Dick mode with regards to Ukraine.  I'm leaning (but not fully convinced) that other leaders in his country (that he can't disappear) won't let him use WMD's against Ukraine; so this is his plan to position Russia to get that approval.
 
2022-09-21 1:34:44 PM  
They don't need 300k conscripts to take the fight to the enemy, they mostly need them as warm bodies in occupied territories to be human shields around professional soldiers that currently don't spot the enemy quickly enough to keep from getting attacked by surprise.
 
2022-09-21 1:35:42 PM  
You vill be trained to operate latest infantry fighting vehicle, vanya:

i.dailymail.co.ukView Full Size
 
2022-09-21 1:47:10 PM  
 
2022-09-21 1:47:49 PM  

OdradekRex: Live reenactments daily-make your reservations on line now.

[YouTube video: Enemy at the gate; One out of tow gets a rifle, one without follows him]

Probably NSFW, unless you are in the Russian Army. Then it's considered a training film.


More training than they'll probably actually get.
 
2022-09-21 2:00:04 PM  
Keep in mind that without disciplined training, these guys are more likely to commit war crimes.
 
2022-09-21 2:01:04 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Keep in mind that without disciplined training, these guys are more likely to commit war crimes.


Would Russian training increase or decrease the likelihood though?
 
2022-09-21 2:15:11 PM  
Jeez, I thought the Wagner mercenaries were nuts to only give the prisoners they recruit a couple days of training before sending them to the front.  I didn't know that was how the whole Russian military works.
 
2022-09-21 2:16:52 PM  

Bootleg: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Keep in mind that without disciplined training, these guys are more likely to commit war crimes.

Would Russian training increase or decrease the likelihood though?


Yes.
 
2022-09-21 2:37:08 PM  

DoBeDoBeDo: Yes we've known this is a problem since George Washington wrote about hating to use militias because their training was non-existent and they were mostly just a resource suck.  It's also why we have that whole "Well Regulated" part of the 2nd Amendment that people like to skip over.

No, John Boy, you are not going to be anywhere near effective against a real fighting force.


Is this a reference to All Quiet on the Western Front?
 
2022-09-21 2:40:50 PM  
LOLs -- 300,000 recruits don't come to training with their own weapons and equipment.
 
2022-09-21 2:41:05 PM  
The General?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-21 2:41:41 PM  
Thankfully, Zap had considered the killbots' built-in kill limit....
 
2022-09-21 2:42:03 PM  
All tickets to Turkey and Armenia (two of the countries in the region that allow Russians to enter without a visa) are sold out. Additionally, there are many reports that a plurality of military-ready people are going to opt for imprisonment than service. Seems like the Russians themselves are getting sick of Putin.
 
2022-09-21 2:44:37 PM  

potierrh: other leaders in his country (that he can't disappear)


Who would those be?
 
2022-09-21 2:45:12 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Keep in mind that without disciplined training, these guys are more likely to commit war crimes.


Yes! Ukraine will commit the war crimes!
300k poor, helpless Orcs slaughtered at the front will put Ukraine in genocide territory.

Putin is nothing if not shrewd /s
 
2022-09-21 2:45:22 PM  
Seems like Putin is channeling Stalin: "Quantity has a quality all its own." Human wave attacks ftw!
 
2022-09-21 2:47:06 PM  

OdradekRex: Live reenactments daily-make your reservations on line now.

[YouTube video: Enemy at the gate; One out of tow gets a rifle, one without follows him]

Probably NSFW, unless you are in the Russian Army. Then it's considered a training film.


The funny thing is, this is almost true but in reverse: the Russians had plenty of rifles, but didn't have enough ammo.Russian rifles were cheap and plentiful, but ammunition was used fast and couldn't be easily replaced if lost in combat. So those 5 bullets that each soldier got might be all that was issued for the battle.
 
2022-09-21 2:48:38 PM  
I don't know how accurate it was, but there was a movie about some recruits going to Afghanistan.  Their basic was more playground antics and basic rifle marksmanship.

BTW:  If the enemy doesn't get you, the HINDs will
 
2022-09-21 2:50:46 PM  

thecactusman17: OdradekRex: Live reenactments daily-make your reservations on line now.

[YouTube video: Enemy at the gate; One out of tow gets a rifle, one without follows him]

Probably NSFW, unless you are in the Russian Army. Then it's considered a training film.

The funny thing is, this is almost true but in reverse: the Russians had plenty of rifles, but didn't have enough ammo.Russian rifles were cheap and plentiful, but ammunition was used fast and couldn't be easily replaced if lost in combat. So those 5 bullets that each soldier got might be all that was issued for the battle.


There's a scene in a call of duty where you train on grenade throwing with potatoes. The recruit asks why they're throwing potatoes and the training say that grenades are expensive and worth more than ( the recruit)
 
2022-09-21 2:50:53 PM  

The Exit Stencilist: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Keep in mind that without disciplined training, these guys are more likely to commit war crimes.

Yes! Ukraine will commit the war crimes!
300k poor, helpless Orcs slaughtered at the front will put Ukraine in genocide territory.

Putin is nothing if not shrewd /s


One hell of a strategy, letting Ukraine get championship-level K/D
 
2022-09-21 2:53:50 PM  
This of course is not a great sign and shows the depths of the Russian militaries problems.  It also tends to show an increased likelihood that Russia will use Nuclear/Chemical weapons in support of their operations.  Their conventional forces have lost, they can't hold their gains with the army that has been destroyed.  Nuclear blackmail may be their only hope.  Detontate a nuke a high altitude and say the next one goes to Kyiv unless Russian territorial gains are recognized.  Chemical weapons on civilian areas in Ukraine are possible, but I think lower likelihood.  We certainly won't see battlefield chemical weapons use given the poor training and equipment at this point with Russian forces would result in even more causalties to their own forces than potentially the enemy.
 
2022-09-21 2:57:25 PM  
The fun part was that the entire reason he didn't call up the reserves before now was that they're basically middle class Russians and doing so would not only hurt the economy (more), but turn that middle class against Putin if they suffer losses (which they will).

Now, tell me Vlad. You've called up 300,000 reservists. What are you arming them with? You have uniforms, boots, housing, personal kits, weapons and vehicles for those folks? "Walk over there and pick up the weapons and equipment of your dead comrades" isn't a great answer in the 21st century.
 
2022-09-21 2:58:32 PM  

Harry Freakstorm: thecactusman17: OdradekRex: Live reenactments daily-make your reservations on line now.

[YouTube video: Enemy at the gate; One out of tow gets a rifle, one without follows him]

Probably NSFW, unless you are in the Russian Army. Then it's considered a training film.

The funny thing is, this is almost true but in reverse: the Russians had plenty of rifles, but didn't have enough ammo.Russian rifles were cheap and plentiful, but ammunition was used fast and couldn't be easily replaced if lost in combat. So those 5 bullets that each soldier got might be all that was issued for the battle.

There's a scene in a call of duty where you train on grenade throwing with potatoes. The recruit asks why they're throwing potatoes and the training say that grenades are expensive and worth more than ( the recruit)


I have a vague memory of one of the first Call of Duty games that included the mission that is discussed in the above video.

But you are given the bullets and have to run uphill. You are forced to grab a gun off of a fallen comrade, THEN you can load and fire.
 
2022-09-21 3:00:26 PM  
Going for the Zapp branigan approach of sending waves of men i see
 
2022-09-21 3:01:34 PM  

McManus_brothers: Seems like Putin is channeling Stalin: "Quantity has a quality all its own." Human wave attacks ftw!


I look forward to russia throwing away the entirety of its 18-35 aged population bracket in Ukraine. It totally won't entirely backfire on them in the least.
 
2022-09-21 3:02:55 PM  

Smoking GNU: McManus_brothers: Seems like Putin is channeling Stalin: "Quantity has a quality all its own." Human wave attacks ftw!

I look forward to russia throwing away the entirety of its 18-35 aged population bracket in Ukraine. It totally won't entirely backfire on them in the least.


Self-genocide.
 
2022-09-21 3:06:39 PM  

potierrh: I really wonder what's going through Putin's head with this.  It seems he's in full bore Moby Dick mode with regards to Ukraine.  I'm leaning (but not fully convinced) that other leaders in his country (that he can't disappear) won't let him use WMD's against Ukraine; so this is his plan to position Russia to get that approval.


Here's where I interject my mantra:

There Are No Adults.

There's no "they" who will step in and stop people from destroying themselves, others, their nations, the rule of law, etc.

Putin isn't there yet, but if he decides to push the Russian Equivalent of The Button he will, and his orders will be obeyed. After that things may or may not happen to him or his nation, but Russia isn't going to have a sudden outbreak of ethics or morals.
 
2022-09-21 3:08:15 PM  

Smoking GNU: McManus_brothers: Seems like Putin is channeling Stalin: "Quantity has a quality all its own." Human wave attacks ftw!

I look forward to russia throwing away the entirety of its 18-35 aged population bracket in Ukraine. It totally won't entirely backfire on them in the least.


Hey better than having a bunch of veterans demanding free stuff afterwards.  That's what the gulags are for.
Veterans are just selfish soldiers who refused to die for their country.
 
2022-09-21 3:09:28 PM  

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: The fun part was that the entire reason he didn't call up the reserves before now was that they're basically middle class Russians and doing so would not only hurt the economy (more), but turn that middle class against Putin if they suffer losses (which they will).

Now, tell me Vlad. You've called up 300,000 reservists. What are you arming them with? You have uniforms, boots, housing, personal kits, weapons and vehicles for those folks? "Walk over there and pick up the weapons and equipment of your dead comrades" isn't a great answer in the 21st century.


From what I've been hearing, Putin's kind of soft pedaling on the mobilizing of reservists and stop-lossing active duties. That's a pretty shiatty option too.
 
2022-09-21 3:09:47 PM  

DoBeDoBeDo: Yes we've known this is a problem since George Washington wrote about hating to use militias because their training was non-existent and they were mostly just a resource suck.  It's also why we have that whole "Well Regulated" part of the 2nd Amendment that people like to skip over.

No, John Boy, you are not going to be anywhere near effective against a real fighting force.


Tell that to the legally-carrying dude in Indiana who took out the mall shooter from across the foot court earlier this summer.
 
2022-09-21 3:12:02 PM  
Seems like an attempt at opening up the northern front would be the best use of these recruits. If they send 300K troops in waves towards Kiev then they have to be handled. This would allow the southern front to stabilize a bit and buy Putin time. Just a thought as to how these recruits could be used.
 
2022-09-21 3:12:34 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Keep in mind that without disciplined training, these guys are more likely to commit war crimes.


Russia's professional soldiers were committing war crimes. They were raping women and bombing hospitals. Russia doesn't give a shiat about war crimes.
 
2022-09-21 3:13:44 PM  

fragMasterFlash: They don't need 300k conscripts to take the fight to the enemy, they mostly need them as warm bodies in occupied territories to be human shields around professional soldiers that currently don't spot the enemy quickly enough to keep from getting attacked by surprise.


As history shows, those warm bodies will waste resources and get other soldiers killed.

Germany tried using untrained soldiers in WWI, but found they had 100%+ casualty rate.
 
2022-09-21 3:15:02 PM  
Damn, accidentally cancelled my post.

Short version:  this is the best military move Putin could have made.

300,000 men may not be particularly motivated, trained, etc, but infantrymen are exactly what the Russian forces haven't had enough of.   See https://youtu.be/AKewF8_SiIs

Expect a series of moves gradually acknowledging that there's a war on, allowing more resources to be thrown at the problem.   Russia is bigger than Ukraine in every measurement that matters militarily.    It'll take months to spin the war machine up to where it's supposed to be, but at that point, Russia should expect to win on the battlefield.  The question is, what will happen in the meantime?  Russian troop morale sucks, and these wartime  measures might cause some political problems at home.

But with mud season almost here, and winter following, the new troops may have some time to join their units and get some on-the-job training.  I don't think Ukraine can liberate the Donbas and Crimea before Christmas.  And even if they do, does that end the war?  I don't think so.  Putin, if he's alive and in power, will regroup and launch new offensives.    With wartime measures like this one, he will have the troops to do that.
 
2022-09-21 3:15:13 PM  

ElwoodCuse: The General?

[Fark user image 662x608]


I've always liked how they make him a five star general (when it only goes up to four stars in the real world).
 
2022-09-21 3:15:16 PM  

abcdwtf: Smoking GNU: McManus_brothers: Seems like Putin is channeling Stalin: "Quantity has a quality all its own." Human wave attacks ftw!

I look forward to russia throwing away the entirety of its 18-35 aged population bracket in Ukraine. It totally won't entirely backfire on them in the least.

Self-genocide.


Expect suicide rates in Russia to skyrocket as conscripts would rather put the bullet in their skull themselves rather than have the Ukrainians do it.
 
2022-09-21 3:15:38 PM  

balfourk: Seems like an attempt at opening up the northern front would be the best use of these recruits. If they send 300K troops in waves towards Kiev then they have to be handled. This would allow the southern front to stabilize a bit and buy Putin time. Just a thought as to how these recruits could be used.


Kiev could line the roads with bundles of money, frozen steaks and cases of vodka.

They would advance a few kilometers and start fighting each other.
 
DVD
2022-09-21 3:15:44 PM  

Harry Freakstorm: Smoking GNU: McManus_brothers: Seems like Putin is channeling Stalin: "Quantity has a quality all its own." Human wave attacks ftw!

I look forward to russia throwing away the entirety of its 18-35 aged population bracket in Ukraine. It totally won't entirely backfire on them in the least.

Hey better than having a bunch of veterans demanding free stuff afterwards.  That's what the gulags are for.
Veterans are just selfish soldiers who refused to die for their country.


_____________________________

Hey now, that bit of the GOP platform is supposed to be kept hush-hush.
 
2022-09-21 3:16:02 PM  

pacified: Going for the Zapp branigan approach of sending waves of men i see


Yep, except the Ukrainians have no preset kill limit.
 
2022-09-21 3:16:10 PM  
Because I cannot believe that Putin is that stupid, and that he knows that the alleged 300,000 or so off-the-street conscripts are going to be even more incompetent than those who went before, I propose that he is intentionally pushing 300,000 innocent people to slaughter so he can justify his nuclear option.
 
2022-09-21 3:16:19 PM  

Catsaregreen: DoBeDoBeDo: Yes we've known this is a problem since George Washington wrote about hating to use militias because their training was non-existent and they were mostly just a resource suck.  It's also why we have that whole "Well Regulated" part of the 2nd Amendment that people like to skip over.

No, John Boy, you are not going to be anywhere near effective against a real fighting force.

Tell that to the legally-carrying dude in Indiana who took out the mall shooter from across the foot court earlier this summer.


Did the mall shooter have a T-72 tank?  No?  Didn't think so.
 
2022-09-21 3:16:23 PM  

Koodz: the Russian Equivalent of The Button


That would be The Blyatton
 
2022-09-21 3:16:42 PM  

DoBeDoBeDo: Yes we've known this is a problem since George Washington wrote about hating to use militias because their training was non-existent and they were mostly just a resource suck.  It's also why we have that whole "Well Regulated" part of the 2nd Amendment that people like to skip over.

No, John Boy, you are not going to be anywhere near effective against a real fighting force.


Yeah, ever since the advent of professional militaries, being a conscript has gotten a whole lot worse. There's just no comparison. Look what happened to the Soviets when they threw poorly trained and supplied conscripts against the German military. Sure, the Soviets ultimately won, but their losses relative to German losses were absolutely staggering, just truly mind-blowing, and they still likely only endured because the Russian winter helped stop the Nazis.

Human wave attacks have only gotten worse as the lethality of weapons increases.
 
2022-09-21 3:16:45 PM  

McManus_brothers: Seems like Putin is channeling Stalin: "Quantity has a quality all its own." Human wave attacks ftw!


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