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(Vice)   If you want shrooms on your pizza in San Francisco, they're no longer crimini. Nor are they criminalized. Wait, what, dude?   (vice.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Psilocybin mushrooms, San Francisco, Psilocybin, Psychedelic drug, California, United States, use of psychedelics, latest U.S. city  
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2435 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Sep 2022 at 4:30 AM (20 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-09-08 4:31:35 AM  
The schnozberries still taste like schnozberries.

/meow
 
2022-09-08 4:49:10 AM  
Everything I've read about shrooms says that they have basically zero long-term effects, making them less harmful than both alcohol and nicotine. If this is the case, and we're going to write drug policy based on actual farking science instead of racism and fearmongering, then it only makes sense that a lot of the places that legalized pot are going to do the same for shrooms. IIRC, at least one entire state already has.
 
2022-09-08 4:52:08 AM  
the psychiatric field is delving further into the beneficial effects of micro dosing with certain mushrooms. way too many pizza parlors use slimy canned preserved mushrooms as pie toppings. there is room for improvement in many fields.
 
2022-09-08 6:27:10 AM  
Quit your portobellowing!
 
2022-09-08 6:30:50 AM  
Shrooms were what Bill Hicks was talking about at his comedy shows.  I thought it was acid, which I never even  heard about back in the day.  I only found out recently watching American, The Bill Hicks Story on Kanopy..
 
2022-09-08 6:36:30 AM  
I can buy them in a store now, it's pretty great. Golden Teachers and Penis Envy (lol) watch out for the Penis Envy. I ate a quarter and was in another world.
 
2022-09-08 6:45:11 AM  
Have you no morels?
 
2022-09-08 6:49:57 AM  

Marcos P: I can buy them in a store now, it's pretty great. Golden Teachers and Penis Envy (lol) watch out for the Penis Envy. I ate a quarter and was in another world.


Don't eat a quarter of the penis envy... that was a learning experience.
 
2022-09-08 6:50:06 AM  

trerro: Everything I've read about shrooms says that they have basically zero long-term effects, making them less harmful than both alcohol and nicotine. If this is the case, and we're going to write drug policy based on actual farking science instead of racism and fearmongering, then it only makes sense that a lot of the places that legalized pot are going to do the same for shrooms. IIRC, at least one entire state already has.


The problem lies in the batshiat crazy stuff you think for the hours you're under their influence.
 
2022-09-08 6:51:42 AM  
pbs.twimg.comView Full Size
 
2022-09-08 7:11:17 AM  

tirob: sinko swimo: the psychiatric field is delving further into the beneficial effects of micro dosing with certain mushrooms.

It certainly is.  And what it's finding is that the effects are placebo effects.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35918311/

trerro: Everything I've read about shrooms says that they have basically zero long-term effects, making them less harmful than both alcohol and nicotine.

You wouldn't by any chance be able to provide links to these sources, would you?


Why don't you ever comment in the alcohol threads, hypocrite?
 
2022-09-08 7:13:28 AM  

LivinaParadox: Shrooms were what Bill Hicks was talking about at his comedy shows.  I thought it was acid, which I never even  heard about back in the day.  I only found out recently watching American, The Bill Hicks Story on Kanopy..


He talked about both.


"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather."
 
2022-09-08 7:22:17 AM  
Still won't stop locals from selling fake ones to tourists on Haight-Ashbury.

/Yes, I was one of the rubes
//long time ago
///when I was young and naïve
 
2022-09-08 7:33:50 AM  

Garza and the Supermutants: Still won't stop locals from selling fake ones to tourists on Haight-Ashbury.

/Yes, I was one of the rubes
//long time ago
///when I was young and naïve


Or you could be like me who was like, "That guy ripped us off!"

Then 30 minutes later.... "Oh no..... this is difficult."
 
2022-09-08 7:50:50 AM  

johnphantom: tirob: sinko swimo: the psychiatric field is delving further into the beneficial effects of micro dosing with certain mushrooms.

It certainly is.  And what it's finding is that the effects are placebo effects.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35918311/

trerro: Everything I've read about shrooms says that they have basically zero long-term effects, making them less harmful than both alcohol and nicotine.

You wouldn't by any chance be able to provide links to these sources, would you?

Why don't you ever comment in the alcohol threads, hypocrite?


Tobor Robot cannot exceed his programming.
 
2022-09-08 7:53:12 AM  

Garza and the Supermutants: Still won't stop locals from selling fake ones to tourists on Haight-Ashbury.

/Yes, I was one of the rubes
//long time ago
///when I was young and naïve


"Hold up, these DON'T smell and taste like absolute shiat! Somethings fishy!"
 
2022-09-08 7:55:06 AM  

tirob: johnphantom: tirob: sinko swimo: the psychiatric field is delving further into the beneficial effects of micro dosing with certain mushrooms.

It certainly is.  And what it's finding is that the effects are placebo effects.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35918311/

trerro: Everything I've read about shrooms says that they have basically zero long-term effects, making them less harmful than both alcohol and nicotine.

You wouldn't by any chance be able to provide links to these sources, would you?

Why don't you ever comment in the alcohol threads, hypocrite?

I think every one of us here knows what the dangers of abusing alcohol are, so I don't see the point.


The dangers of alcohol are far worse than mushrooms, and people are abusing alcohol right now, here while using this forum. Don't ask for a study either, you will ignore any evidence anyway. You disingenuously portray harmless drugs as dangerous. You are doing no one a favor.
 
2022-09-08 8:12:42 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Garza and the Supermutants: Still won't stop locals from selling fake ones to tourists on Haight-Ashbury.

/Yes, I was one of the rubes
//long time ago
///when I was young and naïve

Or you could be like me who was like, "That guy ripped us off!"

Then 30 minutes later.... "Oh no..... this is difficult."


Three mushrooms? We paid him for a quarter and all you got was three mushrooms? Well, they are kinda big. That's one each. Let's hope we didn't get ripped off.

*Has mind bending, ultra visual shroom trip for 6 hours*
 
2022-09-08 8:22:48 AM  

tirob: sinko swimo: the psychiatric field is delving further into the beneficial effects of micro dosing with certain mushrooms.

It certainly is.  And what it's finding is that the effects are placebo effects.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35918311/

trerro: Everything I've read about shrooms says that they have basically zero long-term effects, making them less harmful than both alcohol and nicotine.

You wouldn't by any chance be able to provide links to these sources, would you?


Excellent cherry picking.  A simple search on pub med comes up with tons of studies that refute your one example, many of which site actual changes in specific areas of the brain that lead to measurable clinical effects.  In many studies, utilizing shrooms to treat depression works better than every drug currently available on the market for up to three months.

Pharmicokinetically we develop a tolerance to them with repeated administration, so that they basically don't work well after a couple of major doses and it takes a while to get back to a place where they affect you....meaning physical addiction isn't possible in humans according to current research.  By simple logic, psychological addiction would be pretty difficult as well just because even if you kept going back to them the reward to your brain has limiting returns so there has to be a cooling off period no matter what.

Given some of the responses to your post, however, I am not sure you care to look at this objectively.
 
2022-09-08 8:23:57 AM  
"We'll, Mr. Smith, your PTSD seems cured but your saturated fat and sodium levels are off the chart."
 
2022-09-08 8:29:14 AM  

tirob: sinko swimo: the psychiatric field is delving further into the beneficial effects of micro dosing with certain mushrooms.

It certainly is.  And what it's finding is that the effects are placebo effects.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35918311/

trerro: Everything I've read about shrooms says that they have basically zero long-term effects, making them less harmful than both alcohol and nicotine.

You wouldn't by any chance be able to provide links to these sources, would you?


Oh look, it's our local teetotaler of all things here to try and harsh our buzz again. Piss off Gertrude.
 
2022-09-08 8:35:55 AM  

tirob: sinko swimo: the psychiatric field is delving further into the beneficial effects of micro dosing with certain mushrooms.

It certainly is.  And what it's finding is that the effects are placebo effects.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35918311/

trerro: Everything I've read about shrooms says that they have basically zero long-term effects, making them less harmful than both alcohol and nicotine.

You wouldn't by any chance be able to provide links to these sources, would you?


I'm gonna Farkie you as "Bad Trip".
 
2022-09-08 8:40:48 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: LivinaParadox: Shrooms were what Bill Hicks was talking about at his comedy shows.  I thought it was acid, which I never even  heard about back in the day.  I only found out recently watching American, The Bill Hicks Story on Kanopy..

He talked about both.


"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather."


That's why I didn't think it was shrooms.  In the movie, he and his friends all tripped on shrooms and there was no mention of acid. Really cool movie with trippy visuals.
 
2022-09-08 8:41:16 AM  
Hmmm... one day maybe a shroom pizza.. with a side bag of green nugs or pre-rolls, plus beer and/or wine delivered to your house... well, we can dream can't we..... just legalize 'em already, tax'em and sell 'em... with an appropriate warning/caution pamphlet included or posted,  they are safe, fun & useful... never had acid ( lsd) ever, so can't comment on that...i've heard it could be helpful/useful under the right circumstances...
 
2022-09-08 8:50:49 AM  

pheed: [pbs.twimg.com image 775x575]


pbs.twimg.comView Full Size
 
2022-09-08 9:04:46 AM  

johnphantom: tirob: johnphantom: tirob: sinko swimo: the psychiatric field is delving further into the beneficial effects of micro dosing with certain mushrooms.

It certainly is.  And what it's finding is that the effects are placebo effects.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35918311/

trerro: Everything I've read about shrooms says that they have basically zero long-term effects, making them less harmful than both alcohol and nicotine.

You wouldn't by any chance be able to provide links to these sources, would you?

Why don't you ever comment in the alcohol threads, hypocrite?

I think every one of us here knows what the dangers of abusing alcohol are, so I don't see the point.

The dangers of alcohol are far worse than mushrooms, and people are abusing alcohol right now, here while using this forum.


Not yet, I'm not. Gimme 20 minutes 'til I get home.
 
2022-09-08 9:10:54 AM  
I mean i get having stuff like crack and meth as illegal but shrooms / weed and natural stuff ... just why? Seriously mankind has been using these things since Ogg ate a shroom he found in a pile of dino poop and tripped balls for the first time. 
Making things illegal only creates a black market for these items / substances which draws in the real criminal element.
 
2022-09-08 9:24:43 AM  

Netrngr: I mean i get having stuff like crack and meth as illegal but shrooms / weed and natural stuff ... just why? Seriously mankind has been using these things since Ogg ate a shroom he found in a pile of dino poop and tripped balls for the first time. 
Making things illegal only creates a black market for these items / substances which draws in the real criminal element.


Screw natural or unnatural, IDC - neither does the law or a lot of people really.  The question is where's the harm, short and or long term etc?  That's the metric.  Something could be unnatural as hell and if it had the same, "Gets you high for a while, that's pretty much it" profile as shrooms I'd be just as fine with it

/assuming you act like a responsible human and don't drive or do other dumb shiat
//just like anything else, time and a place
///actual dangerous dumb shiat - some dumb shiat is inevitable on shrooms
////but it's non-dangerous hippy dumb shiat as a rule, and that isn't a problem really
 
2022-09-08 9:26:12 AM  

Netrngr: I mean i get having stuff like crack and meth as illegal but shrooms / weed and natural stuff ... just why? Seriously mankind has been using these things since Ogg ate a shroom he found in a pile of dino poop and tripped balls for the first time. 
Making things illegal only creates a black market for these items / substances which draws in the real criminal element.


To be fair, "natural" doesn't mean shiat. All sorts of horribly poisonous things are natural. I'm not concerned about shrooms/weed though.
 
2022-09-08 9:30:15 AM  

tirob: sinko swimo: the psychiatric field is delving further into the beneficial effects of micro dosing with certain mushrooms.

It certainly is.  And what it's finding is that the effects are placebo effects.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35918311/

trerro: Everything I've read about shrooms says that they have basically zero long-term effects, making them less harmful than both alcohol and nicotine.

You wouldn't by any chance be able to provide links to these sources, would you?


Yup... Look at that placebo effect here... 🙄

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/psilocybin-treatment-for-major-depression-effective-for-up-to-a-year-for-most-patients-study-shows
 
2022-09-08 9:42:39 AM  
nods like a fun guy...

imgs.search.brave.comView Full Size
 
2022-09-08 9:43:07 AM  

patrick767: Netrngr: I mean i get having stuff like crack and meth as illegal but shrooms / weed and natural stuff ... just why? Seriously mankind has been using these things since Ogg ate a shroom he found in a pile of dino poop and tripped balls for the first time. 
Making things illegal only creates a black market for these items / substances which draws in the real criminal element.

To be fair, "natural" doesn't mean shiat. All sorts of horribly poisonous things are natural. I'm not concerned about shrooms/weed though.


You'd be concerned if you saw all the posts on FB of "Is these shrooms psychoactive? I am thinking about eating them..." followed by 300 replies varying from "that is poison" to "give it a shot, what do you have to lose?"

Regulation and industry involved means safe products. The psilocybin in mushrooms can't kill you.
 
2022-09-08 9:48:44 AM  

trerro: Everything I've read about shrooms says that they have basically zero long-term effects, making them less harmful than both alcohol and nicotine. If this is the case, and we're going to write drug policy based on actual farking science instead of racism and fearmongering, then it only makes sense that a lot of the places that legalized pot are going to do the same for shrooms. IIRC, at least one entire state already has.


Cmon Oregon get your shiat together cause I don't know "a guy"
 
2022-09-08 9:48:48 AM  

philotech: tirob: sinko swimo: the psychiatric field is delving further into the beneficial effects of micro dosing with certain mushrooms.

It certainly is.  And what it's finding is that the effects are placebo effects.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35918311/

trerro: Everything I've read about shrooms says that they have basically zero long-term effects, making them less harmful than both alcohol and nicotine.

You wouldn't by any chance be able to provide links to these sources, would you?

Yup... Look at that placebo effect here... 🙄

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/psilocybin-treatment-for-major-depression-effective-for-up-to-a-year-for-most-patients-study-shows


Where, uh, where did he go? To extol the virtues of Coors somewhere, no doubt.

productplacementblog.comView Full Size
 
2022-09-08 9:51:01 AM  

philotech: tirob: sinko swimo: the psychiatric field is delving further into the beneficial effects of micro dosing with certain mushrooms.

It certainly is.  And what it's finding is that the effects are placebo effects.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35918311/

trerro: Everything I've read about shrooms says that they have basically zero long-term effects, making them less harmful than both alcohol and nicotine.

You wouldn't by any chance be able to provide links to these sources, would you?

Yup... Look at that placebo effect here... 🙄

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/psilocybin-treatment-for-major-depression-effective-for-up-to-a-year-for-most-patients-study-shows


The placebo was for microdosing, that Johns Hopkins study wasn't microdosing.

Microdosing is a placebo fad. Increase the dosing significantly and you start seeing effects.
 
2022-09-08 9:53:28 AM  

patrick767: Netrngr: I mean i get having stuff like crack and meth as illegal but shrooms / weed and natural stuff ... just why? Seriously mankind has been using these things since Ogg ate a shroom he found in a pile of dino poop and tripped balls for the first time. 
Making things illegal only creates a black market for these items / substances which draws in the real criminal element.

To be fair, "natural" doesn't mean shiat. All sorts of horribly poisonous things are natural. I'm not concerned about shrooms/weed though.


List of natural things: asbestos, poison ivy, cyanide, sharks, botulism, death cap mushrooms, datura, black mold, carbon monoxide
 
2022-09-08 9:57:48 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Netrngr: I mean i get having stuff like crack and meth as illegal but shrooms / weed and natural stuff ... just why? Seriously mankind has been using these things since Ogg ate a shroom he found in a pile of dino poop and tripped balls for the first time. 
Making things illegal only creates a black market for these items / substances which draws in the real criminal element.

Screw natural or unnatural, IDC - neither does the law or a lot of people really.  The question is where's the harm, short and or long term etc?  That's the metric. Something could be unnatural as hell and if it had the same, "Gets you high for a while, that's pretty much it" profile as shrooms I'd be just as fine with it

/assuming you act like a responsible human and don't drive or do other dumb shiat
//just like anything else, time and a place
///actual dangerous dumb shiat - some dumb shiat is inevitable on shrooms
////but it's non-dangerous hippy dumb shiat as a rule, and that isn't a problem really


If that were the metric, alcohol would be illegal.  I had an 11 year career as a Medical ICU nurse, and a significant percentage of our patient population were either people with liver failure from alcohol abuse, or people undergoing clinically dangerous alcohol withdrawal.  It contributes to serious detrimental short-term effects(DUI deaths, violence, trauma, burns, etc) as well as long-term consequences (liver failure, cirrhosis, hepatocellular carcinoma).  These are extensively studied and largely ignored by society.

We historically just pick what poisons we are cool with as a society.  Making weed and shrooms legal isn't a crazy leap, imho, especially if you compare the detrimental effects of the currently legal drugs such as nicotine and alcohol.
 
2022-09-08 10:09:13 AM  

medicalmiracle: If that were the metric, alcohol would be illegal.  I had an 11 year career as a Medical ICU nurse, and a significant percentage of our patient population were either people with liver failure from alcohol abuse, or people undergoing clinically dangerous alcohol withdrawal.  It contributes to serious detrimental short-term effects(DUI deaths, violence, trauma, burns, etc) as well as long-term consequences (liver failure, cirrhosis, hepatocellular carcinoma).  These are extensively studied and largely ignored by society.

We historically just pick what poisons we are cool with as a society.  Making weed and shrooms legal isn't a crazy leap, imho, especially if you compare the detrimental effects of the currently legal drugs such as nicotine and alcohol.


+1 - Alcohol is one of the hardest drugs out there

/I'm no expert like you though
//That's just like my opinion man
 
2022-09-08 10:22:46 AM  

medicalmiracle: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Netrngr: I mean i get having stuff like crack and meth as illegal but shrooms / weed and natural stuff ... just why? Seriously mankind has been using these things since Ogg ate a shroom he found in a pile of dino poop and tripped balls for the first time. 
Making things illegal only creates a black market for these items / substances which draws in the real criminal element.

Screw natural or unnatural, IDC - neither does the law or a lot of people really.  The question is where's the harm, short and or long term etc?  That's the metric. Something could be unnatural as hell and if it had the same, "Gets you high for a while, that's pretty much it" profile as shrooms I'd be just as fine with it

/assuming you act like a responsible human and don't drive or do other dumb shiat
//just like anything else, time and a place
///actual dangerous dumb shiat - some dumb shiat is inevitable on shrooms
////but it's non-dangerous hippy dumb shiat as a rule, and that isn't a problem really

If that were the metric, alcohol would be illegal.  I had an 11 year career as a Medical ICU nurse, and a significant percentage of our patient population were either people with liver failure from alcohol abuse, or people undergoing clinically dangerous alcohol withdrawal.  It contributes to serious detrimental short-term effects(DUI deaths, violence, trauma, burns, etc) as well as long-term consequences (liver failure, cirrhosis, hepatocellular carcinoma).  These are extensively studied and largely ignored by society.

We historically just pick what poisons we are cool with as a society.  Making weed and shrooms legal isn't a crazy leap, imho, especially if you compare the detrimental effects of the currently legal drugs such as nicotine and alcohol.


Med, you aren't farking wrong about booze - the only reason it's as unregulated as it is is because tradition.  I meant the metric for sane assessment, which is indeed not necessarily the metric the law gets up to using in many cases
 
2022-09-08 10:28:30 AM  

johnphantom: patrick767: Netrngr: I mean i get having stuff like crack and meth as illegal but shrooms / weed and natural stuff ... just why? Seriously mankind has been using these things since Ogg ate a shroom he found in a pile of dino poop and tripped balls for the first time. 
Making things illegal only creates a black market for these items / substances which draws in the real criminal element.

To be fair, "natural" doesn't mean shiat. All sorts of horribly poisonous things are natural. I'm not concerned about shrooms/weed though.

You'd be concerned if you saw all the posts on FB of "Is these shrooms psychoactive? I am thinking about eating them..." followed by 300 replies varying from "that is poison" to "give it a shot, what do you have to lose?"

Regulation and industry involved means safe products. The psilocybin in mushrooms can't kill you.


To clarify, I don't think shrooms/weed should be illegal, but it has nothing to do with whether or not they are "natural".
 
2022-09-08 11:04:19 AM  

Blahbbs: Have you no morels?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-09-08 11:15:06 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: medicalmiracle: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Netrngr: I mean i get having stuff like crack and meth as illegal but shrooms / weed and natural stuff ... just why? Seriously mankind has been using these things since Ogg ate a shroom he found in a pile of dino poop and tripped balls for the first time. 
Making things illegal only creates a black market for these items / substances which draws in the real criminal element.

Screw natural or unnatural, IDC - neither does the law or a lot of people really.  The question is where's the harm, short and or long term etc?  That's the metric. Something could be unnatural as hell and if it had the same, "Gets you high for a while, that's pretty much it" profile as shrooms I'd be just as fine with it

/assuming you act like a responsible human and don't drive or do other dumb shiat
//just like anything else, time and a place
///actual dangerous dumb shiat - some dumb shiat is inevitable on shrooms
////but it's non-dangerous hippy dumb shiat as a rule, and that isn't a problem really

If that were the metric, alcohol would be illegal.  I had an 11 year career as a Medical ICU nurse, and a significant percentage of our patient population were either people with liver failure from alcohol abuse, or people undergoing clinically dangerous alcohol withdrawal.  It contributes to serious detrimental short-term effects(DUI deaths, violence, trauma, burns, etc) as well as long-term consequences (liver failure, cirrhosis, hepatocellular carcinoma).  These are extensively studied and largely ignored by society.

We historically just pick what poisons we are cool with as a society.  Making weed and shrooms legal isn't a crazy leap, imho, especially if you compare the detrimental effects of the currently legal drugs such as nicotine and alcohol.

Med, you aren't farking wrong about booze - the only reason it's as unregulated as it is is because tradition.  I meant the metric for sane assessment, which is indeed not necessarily the metric the law gets up to using in many cases


Word.
 
2022-09-08 11:55:29 AM  

tirob: sinko swimo: the psychiatric field is delving further into the beneficial effects of micro dosing with certain mushrooms.

It certainly is.  And what it's finding is that the effects are placebo effects.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35918311/

trerro: Everything I've read about shrooms says that they have basically zero long-term effects, making them less harmful than both alcohol and nicotine.

You wouldn't by any chance be able to provide links to these sources, would you?


back to your corner, Tirob or I'll blow second hand marijuana smoke your way.

/I won't tell your friends that you love it.
 
2022-09-08 11:56:35 AM  

tirob: johnphantom: tirob:

I think every one of us here knows what the dangers of abusing alcohol are, so I don't see the point.

The dangers of alcohol are far worse than mushrooms,

According to whom?

johnphantom: Don't ask for a study either,

I just did.  Got one?


There's a lot out there. There's a toxicity chart here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin#Adverse_effects

Have you by any chance watched the Netflix series "How to Change Your Mind," based on the Michael Pollan book? Even if it doesn't convince you of anything, I'm curious how someone philosophically opposed to altered consciousness would react.
 
2022-09-08 2:04:25 PM  

tirob: Hickory-smoked: tirob: johnphantom: tirob:

I think every one of us here knows what the dangers of abusing alcohol are, so I don't see the point.

The dangers of alcohol are far worse than mushrooms,

According to whom?

johnphantom: Don't ask for a study either,

I just did.  Got one?

There's a lot out there. There's a toxicity chart here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin#Adverse_effects

Alcohol, if it's abused, can be very toxic.  Of course, it's not supposed to be abused; the convention is that you're supposed to stop drinking before you get drunk.  I don't doubt that psilocybin is far less acutely toxic than alcohol is.  Of course, nicotine probably is too, or at least I know of very few cases where someone OD'd on nicotine in the course of smoking tobacco.  It doesn't follow that cigarettes are particularly safe, however.


Nicotine is clearly marked on the toxicity chart near the top, high on the Dependence Potential axis. Compare that to where psilocybin is.


No.

My distaste for hallucinogens isn't philosophical; rather, it's based on sour experience, all of it second-hand.


Well, if you did ever get curious and wanted to know more about other people's experiences, I'd be interested in your reaction.
 
2022-09-08 2:20:46 PM  

tirob: Hickory-smoked: tirob: johnphantom: tirob:


So, to recap, you have a distrust of many psychedelics (excepting peyote for some reason) based on a feeling you get from second-hand information.  Anecdotal evidence.  This then leads you to justify said feelings with cherry-picked, albeit sourced, data to justify your distaste while ignoring the growing body of convincing data that psilocybin in particular is demonstrating probable benefit in a currently hard to treat or untreatable population at a time where mental health issues dominate our culture.  I mean your example above about panic reactions stated they can occur but are especially likely when they are accidentally ingested.   The same is be true of many psychoactive drugs and currently legal medications so I don't understand how that is relevant to this argument at all.  In addition, weed is bad for people who are schizophrenic as well but that points to difficulties that schizophrenics have with many drugs, including legal ones so again that doesn't really help your argument against a broad class of potential medications.

Just say you don't like them, that's fine. But to suggest the science is helping how you feel reality works is ludicrous.  And no, I'm not going to hunt through PubMed or any of the resources that I have available as a healthcare professional to educate you. You are obviously not interested in learning because you are operating from a fixed belief.  I linked an article above that detailed how neuroscience looks at that drug in particular, with data about toxicity and addiction potential and you didn't even bat an eye.  And that article is pretty thick with information....but my guess is you ask for articles because if people don't produce them, well then they obviously can't have a valid point but in reality most of us don't care if you believe us or not.   I just find it hilarious that you are pretending to be considering the body of evidence out there when in reality you have an obvious bias and that's what you're sticking to. Most of my rebuttal is for the other readers of this thread.

Confirmation bias
 
2022-09-08 4:14:44 PM  

tirob: Ultimately, I had to let the man go in large part because of his mental illness.


His lawyer would like you to expand on this.
 
2022-09-08 4:25:14 PM  

tirob: I have known about a dozen people who have used hallucinogens--i.e. I know it for a fact in every case.  The number of them who reported to me that they found them useful for enlightenment, or to relieve a distressed state of mind, is exactly zero.


Should I also assume that you've never spent a weekend in a secluded cabin stargazing from a redwood hottub with 5 or 6 people you loved?

I don't think anyone here is arguing that powerful psychoactives can't be or are never improperly used, but it seems pretty unusual that you really never met anyone who admitted to having a positive experience, and you apparently have no interest in hearing any.

But if that's really where you are, I guess there's nothing to talk about. Have a good weekend.
 
2022-09-08 4:27:24 PM  

tirob: Hickory-smoked:

Nicotine is clearly marked on the toxicity chart near the top, high on the Dependence Potential axis. Compare that to where psilocybin is.

I am fully aware that nicotine is a consummately addictive substance, comparable to heroin in that respect.  It is very infrequently the culprit in acute poisonings, however.

Hickory-smoked:
Well, if you did ever get curious and wanted to know more about other people's experiences, I'd be interested in your reaction.

Since you asked about my reaction to other people's experiences:

I have known about a dozen people who have used hallucinogens--i.e. I know it for a fact in every case.  The number of them who reported to me that they found them useful for enlightenment, or to relieve a distressed state of mind, is exactly zero.  I was once pressed into service to stay with someone who was having a bad reaction to a hallucinogen that she ingested, and I would not like to go through that experience again.  I once had an employee who had overused hallucinogens as a younger person, and who was suffering from delusions, depression, and paranoia as a result.  Ultimately, I had to let the man go in large part because of his mental illness.  I know of two cases where people stepped off of upper stories of buildings and seriously injured themselves after ingesting hallucinogens; one of them injured one of his legs so badly that he had to have it taken off.  In short, my problem isn't that I'm incurious about this class of drugs; rather, it's that I've seen enough--even though I haven't wanted to--to make me sick.


"A hallucinogen".
 
2022-09-08 4:49:06 PM  

tirob: Hickory-smoked:
Well, if you did ever get curious and wanted to know more about other people's experiences, I'd be interested in your reaction.

Since you asked about my reaction to other people's experiences:

I have known about a dozen people who have used hallucinogens--i.e. I know it for a fact in every case.  The number of them who reported to me that they found them useful for enlightenment, or to relieve a distressed state of mind, is exactly zero.  I was once pressed into service to stay with someone who was having a bad reaction to a hallucinogen that she ingested, and I would not like to go through that experience again.  I once had an employee who had overused hallucinogens as a younger person, and who was suffering from delusions, depression, and paranoia as a result.  Ultimately, I had to let the man go in large part because of his mental illness.  I know of two cases where people stepped off of upper stories of buildings and seriously injured themselves after ingesting hallucinogens; one of them injured one of his legs so badly that he had to have it taken off.  In short, my problem isn't that I'm incurious about this class of drugs; rather, it's that I've seen enough--even though I haven't wanted to--to make me sick.


Shows how much you know about the subject. Bad trips are the most therapeutic, according to real experts.
 
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