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(Vice)   Overtime is voluntary, so you'll be thrown in jail if you don't work out   (vice.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Trade union, Labour relations, Organizational studies and human resource management, anonymous letter, Employment, National Labor Relations Act, AlumaSafway scaffold workers, Law  
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1721 clicks; posted to Business » on 30 Aug 2022 at 9:30 PM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



24 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-08-30 5:40:13 PM  
Since slavery (being forced to work against one's will) is illegal, even in Canada, they should go ahead and let someone get arrested.  I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of contingency-fee lawyers who would love to take on AlumaSafeway in such a clear-cut case.

Really, they should sue immediately to forestall any possible enforcement.
 
2022-08-30 9:38:43 PM  
Holy shiat, who agreed to that original bargaining agreement? That's insane.
 
2022-08-30 9:43:49 PM  

morg: Holy shiat, who agreed to that original bargaining agreement? That's insane.


Overtime shall be voluntary except that where there are insufficient volunteers to perform the required work, then the Union and the employees agree that the Employer may require the employees, who have the skill, ability and qualifications to perform the work, to do so on the basis of reverse seniority by shift and classification.

That's actually very reasonable. Why be upset about that?

If the overtime is "voluntary" then the company has no basis to be upset that no one is wanting to do the overtime.

If they actually NEED the overtime worked, that makes it mandatory - assign people to do it as per the contract quoted above and if they refuse (absent a valid reason), fire them.
 
2022-08-30 9:53:27 PM  

morg: Holy shiat, who agreed to that original bargaining agreement? That's insane.


That's pretty standard, it was like that at the Martin Marietta Michould facility under UAW contract.

First they asked for volunteers with preference given to those with the fewest voluntary OT hours.  Then it became mandatory, with those having the lowest required OT hours being first up.  Hours were calculated on past eight weeks.

My shop worked whenever the plant was running so we had two people there every Sat and Sun.
 
2022-08-30 10:00:40 PM  
i2-prod.mirror.co.ukView Full Size


So judge, your saying work will set us free?
 
2022-08-30 10:01:48 PM  
At what point do the workers quit and find new jobs?

I'm fairly certain that mandatory overtime only comes into account if you're still employed there.
 
2022-08-30 10:01:55 PM  

scanman61: morg: Holy shiat, who agreed to that original bargaining agreement? That's insane.

That's pretty standard, it was like that at the Martin Marietta Michould facility under UAW contract.

First they asked for volunteers with preference given to those with the fewest voluntary OT hours.  Then it became mandatory, with those having the lowest required OT hours being first up.  Hours were calculated on past eight weeks.

My shop worked whenever the plant was running so we had two people there every Sat and Sun.


In 1999, American Airlines pilots went on strike and Bill Clinton ordered them back to work after 1 minute.
 
2022-08-30 10:05:26 PM  
mrmopar5287:
scanman61:


Ahhhhhh. I thought they weren't getting paid for voluntary or if there weren't enough volunteers. I was equating voluntary with unpaid.
 
2022-08-30 10:37:09 PM  

OrionXVI: At what point do the workers quit and find new jobs?

I'm fairly certain that mandatory overtime only comes into account if you're still employed there.


In trades like that up here those guys likely belong to a trade union. So if they go to another scaffolding company that's union here to work at one of Suncors sites they are probably  mostly locked into that contract.

Also their company likely has an exclusive contract at the site. Not really anywhere to go.

Finally don't cry too much for them. Most of the guys make at least $3/hr to start. It's hardly slave labour.
 
2022-08-30 10:56:04 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: OrionXVI: At what point do the workers quit and find new jobs?

I'm fairly certain that mandatory overtime only comes into account if you're still employed there.

In trades like that up here those guys likely belong to a trade union. So if they go to another scaffolding company that's union here to work at one of Suncors sites they are probably  mostly locked into that contract.

Also their company likely has an exclusive contract at the site. Not really anywhere to go.

Finally don't cry too much for them. Most of the guys make at least $3/hr to start. It's hardly slave labour.


Being forced to work is sh*tty regardless of how much you make.

Also, I assume $3 was a typo.
 
2022-08-30 11:46:12 PM  
If there's that much overtime needed there's positions needing to fill. Doesn't surprise me a union would push against taking the jobs from others to make unwanted extra work for those having to pick up slack.
 
2022-08-31 1:03:05 AM  

austerity101: Representative of the unwashed masses: OrionXVI: At what point do the workers quit and find new jobs?

I'm fairly certain that mandatory overtime only comes into account if you're still employed there.

In trades like that up here those guys likely belong to a trade union. So if they go to another scaffolding company that's union here to work at one of Suncors sites they are probably  mostly locked into that contract.

Also their company likely has an exclusive contract at the site. Not really anywhere to go.

Finally don't cry too much for them. Most of the guys make at least $3/hr to start. It's hardly slave labour.

Being forced to work is sh*tty regardless of how much you make.

Also, I assume $3 was a typo.


Yup more like $30. And as much as they may not like the real they negotiated it sure seems like the union screwed up.
 
2022-08-31 1:03:26 AM  
Contracts almost always ban strikes while the contracts are in force.  They basically take away employees power when employers start doing things that aren't directly addressed by the contract.
 
2022-08-31 7:08:36 AM  
Are they still working for you?

Yes?

Then they're not striking.

Either pay them more or hire more workers.
 
2022-08-31 8:26:01 AM  

morg: mrmopar5287:
scanman61:

Ahhhhhh. I thought they weren't getting paid for voluntary or if there weren't enough volunteers. I was equating voluntary with unpaid.


Nope.

The facility I worked at was a 24/7 operation so there was always overtime that needed to be filled.  First they asked who wanted to work, and if they didn't get enough workers then they came up with the list of who was required to work.  It was UAW overtime, time and a half Saturday and double time Sunday, but you can get sick of being at the job even if you're being well paid.
 
2022-08-31 10:52:16 AM  
So, according to the article, the asshats in this situation appear to be the ALRB (Alberta Labor Relations Board) which made the ruling that collectively declining to accept overtime shifts constituted an illegal strike.

Seriously, I have to wonder how deeply this board is in the big corporations pocket to reach this kind of ruling.
 
2022-08-31 10:53:37 AM  

IlGreven: Are they still working for you?

Yes?

Then they're not striking.

Either pay them more or hire more workers.


My guess is the language in the contract included a slowdown as a strike. Also, the union sending out a letter encouraging workers not to do overtime helped.
 
2022-08-31 12:19:28 PM  

v2micca: So, according to the article, the asshats in this situation appear to be the ALRB (Alberta Labor Relations Board) which made the ruling that collectively declining to accept overtime shifts constituted an illegal strike.

Seriously, I have to wonder how deeply this board is in the big corporations pocket to reach this kind of ruling.


Alberta, so yes.
 
2022-08-31 12:53:40 PM  

v2micca: collectively declining to accept overtime shifts constituted an illegal strike


That I can tell, no one has refused to work OT. The company is listing it as voluntary and no one is signing up.

If the company needs the OT worked they better start mandating people.

This is how my job works - voluntary is voluntary. Mandatory is mandatory (but not always, depending on circumstances).
 
2022-08-31 4:09:39 PM  

OrionXVI: At what point do the workers quit and find new jobs?

I'm fairly certain that mandatory overtime only comes into account if you're still employed there.


I see a lot of malicious compliance in there future.
 
2022-08-31 4:55:12 PM  
After reading the article I don't like either party.

The workers actively sought to disrupt their business for the purpose of negotiating better benefits. There's no good faith there.

They have a collective agreement, why not just...ask for better benefits? Then have an actual strike if that doesn't work without all the shadow bullshiat.
 
2022-08-31 10:21:24 PM  

dyhchong: The workers actively


Did they? Not signing up for voluntary OT seems like a passive thing.
 
2022-08-31 11:47:36 PM  

mrmopar5287: dyhchong: The workers actively

Did they? Not signing up for voluntary OT seems like a passive thing.


Yes, passive is when you do something passive. Active is when you do something active.

If you coordinate an action, that is active.
 
2022-09-01 12:48:20 AM  

dyhchong: The workers actively sought to disrupt their business for the purpose of negotiating better benefits. There's no good faith there.


The workers worked their regular hours and only refused "voluntary" overtime.
If they can't refuse then it is not voluntary.
If it is not voluntary then it is not overtime.
 
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