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(Guardian)   70% of Los Angeles teachers consider quitting. Subby is a teacher in SoCal and is not surprised by this number, as workload keeps increasing and bosses are terrible. In other news, everyone is thinking of quitting their job for those same reasons   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, High school, Education in the United States, Education, Teacher, United Teachers Los Angeles, school privatization, School, high cost of living  
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1272 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Aug 2022 at 9:04 AM (23 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-30 8:20:44 AM  
Yeah but we don't need no more dumber people
Teaching is important
 
2022-08-30 8:36:19 AM  
Go for it. If even the ostensibly most progressive state can't figure out how to give teachers a living wage and good working environment, you have to put aside the kids--for the sake of the kids--before it's too late and we're all stuck in a charter-school hellhole as the public school system erodes to nothing.
 
2022-08-30 8:37:39 AM  
c.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-30 8:58:09 AM  

koder: Go for it. If even the ostensibly most progressive state can't figure out how to give teachers a living wage and good working environment, you have to put aside the kids--for the sake of the kids--before it's too late and we're all stuck in a charter-school hellhole as the public school system erodes to nothing.


There's *way* too many people who think teachers have an easy job and a whole summer off that they didn't earn.  I hear this from people who sit in privileged, inherited positions who do almost *nothing* all day.
 
2022-08-30 9:06:41 AM  
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2022-08-30 9:11:19 AM  
Probably 70%, or more, of all workers consider quitting.  Teachers aren't special in that regard.
 
2022-08-30 9:11:42 AM  
A stupid population is easier to lie to and to treat them like shiat without them rising up and fighting back.
This is by design by the Government (of both parties) and the billionaire 1% who actually run the nation.
 
2022-08-30 9:11:51 AM  
It's not just teachers.  I'm in IT in the legal field, and I've already told my wife I'm retiring (or quitting, if you prefer) early in just under three years.  Not because we're independently wealthy (far from it), but because I've come to loathe everything about my job except the paycheck.
 
2022-08-30 9:13:14 AM  
Meanwhile, 70% of the teachers in Texas are thinking of quitting. But Texas doesn't care about education anyway, so it's no big deal.
 
2022-08-30 9:14:30 AM  
This is a bit of advice I offer for anyone with a clean background who have some spare hours. Become a third party traveler notary. They need people who are paid $300 an hour to explain signing mortgages or complicated policies. But you need a clean background with no traffic offenses because of Obama.
 
2022-08-30 9:14:48 AM  

cretinbob: Yeah but we don't need no more dumber people
Teaching is important


What are they even allowed to teach kids anymore? We have turned teachers into glorified baby sitter who isn't allowed to even discipline kids who are not learning.
The teachers themselves are entitled people who don't realize everyone else is in the same boat as them - just without union.
 
2022-08-30 9:15:39 AM  

Wave Of Anal Fury: It's not just teachers.  I'm in IT in the legal field, and I've already told my wife I'm retiring (or quitting, if you prefer) early in just under three years.  Not because we're independently wealthy (far from it), but because I've come to loathe everything about my job except the paycheck.


I'm in my late 50s and would quit if I could, but no employer health insurance and no Medicare means that's out of the question.

\too bad the US isn't a civilized country with universal healthcare.
 
2022-08-30 9:16:16 AM  

Wave Of Anal Fury: It's not just teachers.  I'm in IT in the legal field, and I've already told my wife I'm retiring (or quitting, if you prefer) early in just under three years.  Not because we're independently wealthy (far from it), but because I've come to loathe everything about my job except the paycheck.


Glad to see I'm not the only one. Here at our district they keep layering admin at 6 figures plus but don't add anything to custodial, teachers, teacher asst, it, maintenance, etc. Aaaand they just can't figure out why moral is so low.
 
2022-08-30 9:17:10 AM  
Oddly enough I work at a school in Los Angeles none of the teachers are struggling financially or are taking side jobs at my school. I'm kinda confused.

I mean the average salary is around 72K with a few who go into the 90s. So I guess they might be talking about Private schools or charters.
 
2022-08-30 9:17:17 AM  

cheesemaker2016: cretinbob: Yeah but we don't need no more dumber people
Teaching is important

What are they even allowed to teach kids anymore? We have turned teachers into glorified baby sitter who isn't allowed to even discipline kids who are not learning.
The teachers themselves are entitled people who don't realize everyone else is in the same boat as them - just without union.


The fact that you think kids should be "disciplined" for not learning says you have a bright future in a Republican administration.
 
2022-08-30 9:18:01 AM  

pounddawg: Wave Of Anal Fury: It's not just teachers.  I'm in IT in the legal field, and I've already told my wife I'm retiring (or quitting, if you prefer) early in just under three years.  Not because we're independently wealthy (far from it), but because I've come to loathe everything about my job except the paycheck.

Glad to see I'm not the only one. Here at our district they keep layering admin at 6 figures plus but don't add anything to custodial, teachers, teacher asst, it, maintenance, etc. Aaaand they just can't figure out why moral is so low.


You probably meant "morale", but it's better this way anyway.
 
2022-08-30 9:19:05 AM  

starsrift: pounddawg: Wave Of Anal Fury: It's not just teachers.  I'm in IT in the legal field, and I've already told my wife I'm retiring (or quitting, if you prefer) early in just under three years.  Not because we're independently wealthy (far from it), but because I've come to loathe everything about my job except the paycheck.

Glad to see I'm not the only one. Here at our district they keep layering admin at 6 figures plus but don't add anything to custodial, teachers, teacher asst, it, maintenance, etc. Aaaand they just can't figure out why moral is so low.

You probably meant "morale", but it's better this way anyway.


Still on my first cup.
 
2022-08-30 9:19:08 AM  

debug: Probably 70%, or more, of all workers consider quitting.  Teachers aren't special in that regard.


Googling turned up a poll suggesting 40% as a recent number for all workers, FWIW. Perhaps more useful is how the number for teachers has changed over time, and especially whether the number of actual resignations has changed. Complaining is one thing, action is another.
 
2022-08-30 9:19:36 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: I'm in my late 50s and would quit if I could, but no employer health insurance and no Medicare means that's out of the question.

\too bad the US isn't a civilized country with universal healthcare.


I'll get added to my wife's.  She doesn't loathe her job, and as long as I earn enough working at Wegmans (or wherever) to cover the increase in her health insurance, I'm good.
 
2022-08-30 9:22:21 AM  

pounddawg: Wave Of Anal Fury: It's not just teachers.  I'm in IT in the legal field, and I've already told my wife I'm retiring (or quitting, if you prefer) early in just under three years.  Not because we're independently wealthy (far from it), but because I've come to loathe everything about my job except the paycheck.

Glad to see I'm not the only one. Here at our district they keep layering admin at 6 figures plus but don't add anything to custodial, teachers, teacher asst, it, maintenance, etc. Aaaand they just can't figure out why moral is so low.


The only reason I haven't quit already is because I've been working from home in Virginia since 2014.  If I had to still be sitting in an office in a big city, I would have quit long ago.
 
2022-08-30 9:24:26 AM  
Take your ass to Oshag Hennessy's office, subby!
 
2022-08-30 9:26:09 AM  

Decorus: Oddly enough I work at a school in Los Angeles none of the teachers are struggling financially or are taking side jobs at my school. I'm kinda confused.

I mean the average salary is around 72K with a few who go into the 90s. So I guess they might be talking about Private schools or charters.


It's a UTLA survey and they do represent both charter and district LAUSD teachers. Do you remember responding to such a survey?
 
2022-08-30 9:26:23 AM  
I was briefly a substitute teacher while I was "between jobs", and was completely exhausted at the end of every day, and probably got sick with some sort of germ every other week.  People who complain about teachers and education in general should be forced to be a substitute teacher for a month.  I guarantee they'd stop their griping.
 
2022-08-30 9:26:55 AM  
It's f*cking rough for us. And it's probably going to become a gameshow.
 
2022-08-30 9:27:33 AM  

Wave Of Anal Fury: It's not just teachers.  I'm in IT in the legal field, and I've already told my wife I'm retiring (or quitting, if you prefer) early in just under three years.  Not because we're independently wealthy (far from it), but because I've come to loathe everything about my job except the paycheck.


I hear you. I'm still at least 22 years away from retirement (unless I win a lottery lol) but my wife and aunt already plan to somehow be done with this greedy corporate world. I work in IT and just like you hate everything about my company other than the paycheck (and a couple people I actually like)
 
2022-08-30 9:28:03 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: cheesemaker2016: cretinbob: Yeah but we don't need no more dumber people
Teaching is important

What are they even allowed to teach kids anymore? We have turned teachers into glorified baby sitter who isn't allowed to even discipline kids who are not learning.
The teachers themselves are entitled people who don't realize everyone else is in the same boat as them - just without union.

The fact that you think kids should be "disciplined" for not learning says you have a bright future in a Republican administration.


If your kids shouldn't be disciplined *for doing whatever they are doing instead of learning* while sitting at school says that you are one of the people who have made teachers into glorified baby sitters.
 
2022-08-30 9:29:02 AM  
Tell us again how teachers don't need a union.
 
2022-08-30 9:29:39 AM  

anti-riaa: Wave Of Anal Fury: It's not just teachers.  I'm in IT in the legal field, and I've already told my wife I'm retiring (or quitting, if you prefer) early in just under three years.  Not because we're independently wealthy (far from it), but because I've come to loathe everything about my job except the paycheck.

I hear you. I'm still at least 22 years away from retirement (unless I win a lottery lol) but my wife and aunt already plan to somehow be done with this greedy corporate world. I work in IT and just like you hate everything about my company other than the paycheck (and a couple people I actually like)


'aunt' = I (weird autocorrect)
 
2022-08-30 9:31:19 AM  

UberDave: There's *way* too many people who think teachers have an easy job and a whole summer off that they didn't earn.


I'm one of those, but then I'm in Canada.  Our teachers start... OK, admittedly they start as temps and get moved around a lot for low pay and no job security.

But once they actually have a full time job they average around 50K, and after 15 years over 90K.  AND they get the a Christmas break, March break, and summers off. And it's amazing how PA/PD days lead and end the year and seem to love to extend long weekends.  Almost like they're not really working that hard and are just taking more time off.

And they have one of the most powerful unions and best pension plans you can get.
 
2022-08-30 9:31:48 AM  
And I'm one of the rare people whose desire to quit has absolutely nothing to do with pay.  In fact, if our IT departments (we have three) were the least bit competent and incorporated most of what I do manually into our systems, the firm could fire and replace me with someone who earns a third of what I do, which makes me incredibly overpaid.
 
2022-08-30 9:33:00 AM  
I guess that teachers union isn't doing its job!
 
2022-08-30 9:34:24 AM  
My daughter made it one year as a full-time teacher, left that district because of her overbearing boss (principal). Of course, the four teachers who had her job prior to her only made it one year as well.

She loved her kids but is finding that many of the newer teachers are experiencing the same with their administrations. Not sure if she's going to get back into it or not at this point. She can make about the same money at Target. That is telling.
 
2022-08-30 9:40:40 AM  

Wave Of Anal Fury: It's not just teachers.  I'm in IT in the legal field, and I've already told my wife I'm retiring (or quitting, if you prefer) early in just under three years.  Not because we're independently wealthy (far from it), but because I've come to loathe everything about my job except the paycheck.


i walked out in the middle of an interview with a big law firm.  the next day they called me and asked how much it would take to get me to work for them.  i wish you well in finding a better situation, but i'm not sure your WordPerfect skills are in demand ;)
 
2022-08-30 9:50:12 AM  

asciibaron: i walked out in the middle of an interview with a big law firm. the next day they called me and asked how much it would take to get me to work for them.


I had the odd experience once of turning down a job three times before finally took it.  The company was launching waves of expansion and every time they called me, I'd picked up another contract job and wasn't going to leave in the middle of it.

Adult me now realizes this was because I was meat for the grinder and I just happened to be on their list of potential slaves.  OK, young me realized it too, about a year in.
 
2022-08-30 9:51:23 AM  

Decorus: Oddly enough I work at a school in Los Angeles none of the teachers are struggling financially or are taking side jobs at my school. I'm kinda confused.

I mean the average salary is around 72K with a few who go into the 90s. So I guess they might be talking about Private schools or charters.


Thats because theyre too exhausted from the 4-6 hour daily commutes from Ventura or the OC where those salary actually means something so of course they wouldnt get a 2nd job.
 
2022-08-30 9:51:24 AM  

Decorus: Oddly enough I work at a school in Los Angeles none of the teachers are struggling financially or are taking side jobs at my school. I'm kinda confused.

I mean the average salary is around 72K with a few who go into the 90s. So I guess they might be talking about Private schools or charters.


If its anything like NJ, the numbers can be a little confusing. The average sallary is boosted considerably by the high end of the pay scale.

For instance in my district, average teacher pay is a 90 something k. Lots of towns are very competitive to get into as a teacher, if you are starting out doing elementary you better be from a school known for education, have a great academic history, and it doesn't hurt to know someone. If you want to teach in HS, you better have a background in your subject.

In our district a starting teacher will make a bit over 60k. It is not uncommon for a teacher to retire after 25 years pulling in 150k+. They are expected to get their masters if they don't have it (which the school will pay for) within 4 years as part of their contract. Once you have put in 4 years, you get tenure, and short of you murdering a student and being convicted for it, you can't be fired.

My wife has a teachers benefit package, and it is worth an easy 70k a year between the health insurance, pension, and other benefits. Yes, they don't get the whole summer off, but they get a nice chunk of it, and something like 30 other days off during the year, not to mention they can bank their large number of sick days and get paid out at the end of their career, or use them to move up retirement age. Yes, they frequently do work outside of school hours, but so does every other farking profession. Most then stick around for another year or two after retirement double dipping as a consultant.

Now, our property taxes are no joke here to pay for it. A modest 3 bedroom house can easily set you back 15-20k a year in property taxes alone, of which more than half goes towards the school system to pay for the above.

The main issue teachers new to the profession have, is that the union only gives a shiat about the most senior members. Every contract negotiation focuses on them. People have looked to change the health care plan, which is comically expensive (and we get taxed on a portion of it) and includes things like weekly accupuncture, but the old guard fights back. Pay increases typically favor those with seniority, and any attempt by newer teachers to get involved in the union other than cheering it on causes all kinds of interpersonal issues.

Its further compounded by the fact that the vast majority of teachers are women, and many chose the profession because its a great job to have while starting a family, so they take a few years off early in their career, and then when they return typically have other crap to deal with and don't want to get involved in the politics.
 
2022-08-30 9:52:58 AM  
It's hardly comparable, but we're struggling at my grocery pickup department again. Orders have increased, and only early morning staff has also increased. I am required to close two evenings a week. They are the busiest evenings, and I am usually doing it alone. Last night, I had to shop for orders in between taking them out to cars, but when there are a dozen orders an hour, I can't meet all the "metrics" that earn the managers their bonuses. I can't prepare the department for the morning shift, and I can't do any real cleaning, or reshop the rejected or cancelled items.

I know exactly how things could and should work, but even if they now came to me and offered me the department head position, I'd no longer be interested. It's a salary position, and I'd rather just be second in command/pretend in charge for a little time and a half, probably amounts to nearly the same thing without a couple extra headaches and a pointless weekly meeting.

The same kinds of people who make decisions on how little they can spend to get you fed are the ones who are in charge of how children are educated these days. Various types of metrics at cross-purposes are a bill of goods they've been sold.
 
2022-08-30 9:57:51 AM  
Three things that bring back teachers year after year.  July, August, pension
 
2022-08-30 10:01:12 AM  
Come to Minnesota, the Teachers Union has complete control of the State's leadership, even the Governor was in the Union for over 20 years, and they block any reasonable attempt to reform themselves.  The solution to every problem is to greatly increase the budgets, so all is well.
 
2022-08-30 10:02:03 AM  
I don't mind when people quit. I'm just fed up with them being replaced by clueless 22 year olds who are unwilling to learn
 
2022-08-30 10:02:32 AM  

Decorus: Oddly enough I work at a school in Los Angeles none of the teachers are struggling financially or are taking side jobs at my school. I'm kinda confused.

I mean the average salary is around 72K with a few who go into the 90s. So I guess they might be talking about Private schools or charters.


Serious question: What sort of housing in LA could anyone afford, making $72k?
 
2022-08-30 10:12:11 AM  

caljar: The solution to every problem is to greatly increase the budgets, so all is well.


Yep.  And our teachers strike "for the children" but always at a time selected to threaten their graduation. They could easily strike as soon as the school year ended and give management a looming deadline to deal with but plenty of time to make it work.  Instead, the kids' futures are used to extort extra support from parents.
 
2022-08-30 10:24:13 AM  

SplittingAces: [Fark user image 425x443]


Almost all of that does not apply to California.

Neither does this, from the Farking Article:

Public education funding is significantly inadequate for school districts with high and medium poverty level rates, with public school funding heavily reliant on local and state funds, creating funding inequities across towns and states.

The state constitution requires each school district to be funded equally, on a per pupil basis.  This means funds from richer areas go to poorer ones to balance things out.  Of course it's not perfect, but there aren't gross inequities.  In the past, this has caused grumbling from rich white people (it's basically why prop 13 passed, for example), but less so recently.

Also, the California state budget is in a very good place right now, which means that tons of funding is flowing to the schools (because there are strict requirements that a certain percentage of the state budget goes to the schools).
 
2022-08-30 10:24:38 AM  
This will get way worse until it is completely broken and then we'll rally together and fix it and pat ourselves on the back for being great Americans who can do anything when we set our minds to it. Of course, we could have done something sooner to keep it from happening in the first place, but where's the fun in that?

USA!
USA!
USA!
 
2022-08-30 10:25:17 AM  

koder: Go for it. If even the ostensibly most progressive state can't figure out how to give teachers a living wage and good working environment, you have to put aside the kids--for the sake of the kids--before it's too late and we're all stuck in a charter-school hellhole as the public school system erodes to nothing.


It's worse than everybody thinks. The only developed countries with lower teacher salaries than the US are Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Spain, France, Italy, Iceland, UK, Portugal, Greece, Hungary, Japan, and South Korea. https://data.oecd.org/teachers/teachers-salaries.htm
 
2022-08-30 10:38:11 AM  

menschenfresser: Decorus: Oddly enough I work at a school in Los Angeles none of the teachers are struggling financially or are taking side jobs at my school. I'm kinda confused.

I mean the average salary is around 72K with a few who go into the 90s. So I guess they might be talking about Private schools or charters.

Serious question: What sort of housing in LA could anyone afford, making $72k?


Define "LA".  Some people say "LA" when they mean "Southern California".

LA proper?  Not much, depending on how fiscally prudent you are.  If you really follow the 30% rule (spend no more than 30% of your gross income on housing), that will get you a one bedroom apartment.  But some people consider that rule outdated, so maybe you could get a 2 bedroom or something for a bit more.

Now, if we are talking something like the Inland Empire, things are different.  You might be able to afford an actual house-although prices out here have gone up a ton here too over the past few years.

/the time to buy a house was approximately 2009
//I bought my house in Riverside at 62.5% off the 2005 sale price
///it's now worth more than the 2005 price easily
////was worth even more six months ago
 
2022-08-30 10:43:25 AM  

Nick Nostril: My daughter made it one year as a full-time teacher, left that district because of her overbearing boss (principal). Of course, the four teachers who had her job prior to her only made it one year as well.

She loved her kids but is finding that many of the newer teachers are experiencing the same with their administrations. Not sure if she's going to get back into it or not at this point. She can make about the same money at Target. That is telling.


my wife has been a teacher for about 15 years. Never once has she, or any of of her coworkers, left a school because of the students. It's always because of the administration and district. Heh at one of the schools she worked out the counselors would get high in the parking lot before school. Public school is a disaster.
 
2022-08-30 10:56:26 AM  

CCNP: koder: Go for it. If even the ostensibly most progressive state can't figure out how to give teachers a living wage and good working environment, you have to put aside the kids--for the sake of the kids--before it's too late and we're all stuck in a charter-school hellhole as the public school system erodes to nothing.

It's worse than everybody thinks. The only developed countries with lower teacher salaries than the US are Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Spain, France, Italy, Iceland, UK, Portugal, Greece, Hungary, Japan, and South Korea. https://data.oecd.org/teachers/teachers-salaries.htm


In which of those countries do teachers have to pay for their own supplies?
 
2022-08-30 10:58:52 AM  

Kalyco Jack: CCNP: koder: Go for it. If even the ostensibly most progressive state can't figure out how to give teachers a living wage and good working environment, you have to put aside the kids--for the sake of the kids--before it's too late and we're all stuck in a charter-school hellhole as the public school system erodes to nothing.

It's worse than everybody thinks. The only developed countries with lower teacher salaries than the US are Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Spain, France, Italy, Iceland, UK, Portugal, Greece, Hungary, Japan, and South Korea. https://data.oecd.org/teachers/teachers-salaries.htm

In which of those countries do teachers have to pay for their own supplies?


To hell with school supplies.  US teachers have to pay for their own body armor.
 
2022-08-30 11:07:26 AM  
Maybe they should raise property taxes to pay their teachers better like they do in every other state?

Nahhhh ... Prop 13 is much too loved by everyone.
 
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