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(The Direct)   The House of Mouse hired one lucky nerd to keep track of all the MCU titles and their timelines consistent. DC Studios: Thank Zod we'll never have that problem   (thedirect.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Universe, Multiverse, Marvel Comics, Time, Homecoming's title card mistake, Spider-Man, Hulk, exclusive interview  
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782 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 30 Aug 2022 at 6:05 AM (21 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-30 6:34:00 AM  
I know what they're talking about with Spider-Man but don't you think they should actually tell us what the "mistake" is instead of just assuming everyone knows?
 
2022-08-30 6:58:24 AM  
So, yeah, having a continuity/canon editor/administrator is not unusual. Comic companies have 'em. Star Wars has 'em. So it makes perfect sense for the MCU to have one. Otherwise you try to reign in/reboot everything every few years and you end up with Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Flashpoint, Countdown, Yet Another Crisis, New 52, Jesus H. Crisis...
 
2022-08-30 7:26:00 AM  
Wakanda Forever should easy but I expect things to go nuts in Quantummania when Kang(s) get turned loose.
 
2022-08-30 7:53:07 AM  
Does this include the Netflix shows? Cause despite parallels, they feel as if they are in completely separate universes.
 
2022-08-30 7:54:16 AM  
They promised him all the Mountain Dew and Japanese pillowcases he can fark.
 
2022-08-30 8:02:04 AM  

Electrify: Does this include the Netflix shows? Cause despite parallels, they feel as if they are in completely separate universes.


Probably not, which makes the timekeeper's job a LOT easier
 
2022-08-30 8:04:59 AM  
cnet.comView Full Size


What the marvel time keeper might look like
 
2022-08-30 8:11:28 AM  

sniderman: So, yeah, having a continuity/canon editor/administrator is not unusual.


Per article it is nigh-miraculous:

It's truly a miracle that something like the Marvel Cinematic Universe exists. One of the key reasons behind that is due to its sheer scope-every project has to adhere to a mind-bogglingly complex and ever-expanding continuity. It seems like it would be impossible to keep up with.
 
2022-08-30 8:12:41 AM  

Electrify: Does this include the Netflix shows? Cause despite parallels, they feel as if they are in completely separate universes.


I forget the showrunner for ABC and Agent's of Shield, but he basically told Marvel/Disney he didn't want to after season 1, and he won. Netflix Marvel is at the whim of Disney. And considering how they nuked Star Wars, at best they will hire the actors, and never mention ANYTHING that happened. Never give credit to anyone outside your brand.
 
2022-08-30 8:44:41 AM  

Electrify: Does this include the Netflix shows? Cause despite parallels, they feel as if they are in completely separate universes.


The movies feel like they're in completely different universes. Just in phase 4 we've been introduced to at least three weapons they could have used against Thanos but didn't.

The MCU is also too late with the whole timeline and canon position. In Doctor Strange they said "sorcerers draw energy from the multiverse and with slingrings you can travel between them" yet in Multiverse of Madness that isn't working anymore because being in a different universe eventually leads to incursions, means end of the universe (also: Scarlet Witch after stealing a slingring would have been free to travel about). In No Way Home we have a bunch of multiverse people running around though. Remember the after credits scene? Iirc at least one of them isn't in the correct one. Neither is Gamorrah at the end of Endgame. Why isn't reality blowing up?

If we involve series, then in Loki we learn that there remains only one timeline in order to prevent a "multiverse war." Wait what now? An alternste timeline is an alternate universe? Well, then what are they fighting for? Any place the winner is in for long enough gets destroyed. They can't exactly exploit the conquered areas.

Now we have people who say "timelines", "universes," "realms," "realities," and "multiverses" are all different things. But then why do they use the terms interchangeably? Why does the creator of Loki who is also the writer of Multiverse of Madness not keep the things straight between at least those two properties? If a different timeline isn't a different universe, why is the war for supremacy called a "multiversal war"? Why did the first Kang find out there were, and I quote, "universes stacked stacked on top of his own"? How does pruning the timeline prevent the war if it is between the universes if a universe and a timeline aren't the same thing?

They stopped making sense when they couldn't agree on what constitutes the multiverse. Or even when it was introduced.
 
2022-08-30 8:49:54 AM  

buntz: I know what they're talking about with Spider-Man but don't you think they should actually tell us what the "mistake" is instead of just assuming everyone knows?


Terrible journalism, but yes, there's a graphic in Homecoming that says "Eight Years Later" (after The Avengers) which never made any sense.  It's supposed to be four years later.
 
2022-08-30 9:14:56 AM  
Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.
 
2022-08-30 9:26:15 AM  

Tax Boy: [cnet.com image 850x478]

What the marvel time keeper might look like


Fat lot of good that did when Sylvie killed Kang.
 
2022-08-30 9:47:34 AM  

Fano: Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.


If the showrunners don't want to do continuity, they shouldn't do sequels or shared universes.
 
2022-08-30 10:02:28 AM  

Fano: Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.


Besides some minor plot holes, the Marvel Universe is so damn successful because each movie works as part of one story.

Star Trek works despite these things. (Or does it?! Some fans continue to bemoan endlessly about the LensFlareverse). James Bond too.

Writing matters more than continuity. But it sure as shiat is easier to continue stories with someone telling you stuff vs. just flinging shiat at a wall. Good writing also helps, and as a suprise, consistency is part of good story telling.

Cannon takes a backseat to a good story. But if every story was good, we would bot be living in reality. Good only exists is relation to bad. Consitency matters.
 
2022-08-30 10:05:16 AM  

AppleOptionEsc: Fano: Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.

Besides some minor plot holes, the Marvel Universe is so damn successful because each movie works as part of one story.


Only the first few seasons. The "one big story" aspect is disintegrating ever more with every release.

/I still think they should have stopped after Infinity War
 
2022-08-30 10:10:14 AM  

DerAppie: AppleOptionEsc: Fano: Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.

Besides some minor plot holes, the Marvel Universe is so damn successful because each movie works as part of one story.

Only the first few phases. The "one big story" aspect is disintegrating ever more with every release.

/I still think they should have stopped after Infinity War


FTFM.
 
2022-08-30 10:13:21 AM  

DerAppie: AppleOptionEsc: Fano: Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.

Besides some minor plot holes, the Marvel Universe is so damn successful because each movie works as part of one story.

Only the first few seasons. The "one big story" aspect is disintegrating ever more with every release.

/I still think they should have stopped after Infinity War


Multiverse does that.

I hate to beat a deadhorse even deader, but superhero movies can only be a trend for so long. It isn't really bad, per se, that it is falling apart. Horror movies. Parody movies. Spaghetti westerns. 50s sci-fi. YA movies. Disaster porn. Cyberpunk. Vampires.

Endgame would have been a dignified end. But the latest Spiderman movie proves it doesn't want to get on the cart, and there is still some enthusiasm left.

I guess it depends if you accept that art and business are the same thing in Hollywood. Business always outlasts art. Especially with the latest trend of nostalgia farming.
 
2022-08-30 10:19:11 AM  

DerAppie: AppleOptionEsc: Fano: Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.

Besides some minor plot holes, the Marvel Universe is so damn successful because each movie works as part of one story.

Only the first few seasons. The "one big story" aspect is disintegrating ever more with every release.

/I still think they should have stopped after Infinity War


I'm sort of glad for them to do stories like Ms Marvel, Hawkeye, and She-Hulk. Smaller stakes with occasional crossovers. When everything has the entire universe at stake, you start to ask questions like "where was Captain Marvel during this?" And "why were they holding back The Ultimate Nullifier? They had nothing left to lose."
The show runners definitely need to consult someone for continuity, it's true. But that should always take a back seat to story, you can always find a way that someone got out of the cockadoodie car.
Meanwhile, I enjoyed seeing the same plaza from Hawkeye and realizing Spider-man had or was about to have a fight there too.
 
2022-08-30 10:20:38 AM  

AppleOptionEsc: DerAppie: AppleOptionEsc: Fano: Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.

Besides some minor plot holes, the Marvel Universe is so damn successful because each movie works as part of one story.

Only the first few seasons. The "one big story" aspect is disintegrating ever more with every release.

/I still think they should have stopped after Infinity War

Multiverse does that.

I hate to beat a deadhorse even deader, but superhero movies can only be a trend for so long. It isn't really bad, per se, that it is falling apart. Horror movies. Parody movies. Spaghetti westerns. 50s sci-fi. YA movies. Disaster porn. Cyberpunk. Vampires.

Endgame would have been a dignified end. But the latest Spiderman movie proves it doesn't want to get on the cart, and there is still some enthusiasm left.

I guess it depends if you accept that art and business are the same thing in Hollywood. Business always outlasts art. Especially with the latest trend of nostalgia farming.


The first story ever told by humanity was a superhero story. So you may have to wait a while for whatever movies you think they'll make if they weren't making superhero flicks.
 
2022-08-30 10:25:06 AM  

Fano: AppleOptionEsc: DerAppie: AppleOptionEsc: Fano: Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.

Besides some minor plot holes, the Marvel Universe is so damn successful because each movie works as part of one story.

Only the first few seasons. The "one big story" aspect is disintegrating ever more with every release.

/I still think they should have stopped after Infinity War

Multiverse does that.

I hate to beat a deadhorse even deader, but superhero movies can only be a trend for so long. It isn't really bad, per se, that it is falling apart. Horror movies. Parody movies. Spaghetti westerns. 50s sci-fi. YA movies. Disaster porn. Cyberpunk. Vampires.

Endgame would have been a dignified end. But the latest Spiderman movie proves it doesn't want to get on the cart, and there is still some enthusiasm left.

I guess it depends if you accept that art and business are the same thing in Hollywood. Business always outlasts art. Especially with the latest trend of nostalgia farming.

The first story ever told by humanity was a superhero story. So you may have to wait a while for whatever movies you think they'll make if they weren't making superhero flicks.


Well, I suppose I lobbed that softball.

Entertainment is both eternal and ephemeral. Like bellbottoms and 80s rock, it comes back when the kids discover what their parents listened to when they in turn get into adulthood.

Stories don't just end forever, but it is cyclical. If comic book movies "die" for 20 years, and make a big comeback by 2040 wouldn't be suprising. You CAN get bored hearing/seeing the same thing over and over again. It's just human nature.
 
2022-08-30 10:27:41 AM  

AppleOptionEsc: Fano: AppleOptionEsc: DerAppie: AppleOptionEsc: Fano: Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.

Besides some minor plot holes, the Marvel Universe is so damn successful because each movie works as part of one story.

Only the first few seasons. The "one big story" aspect is disintegrating ever more with every release.

/I still think they should have stopped after Infinity War

Multiverse does that.

I hate to beat a deadhorse even deader, but superhero movies can only be a trend for so long. It isn't really bad, per se, that it is falling apart. Horror movies. Parody movies. Spaghetti westerns. 50s sci-fi. YA movies. Disaster porn. Cyberpunk. Vampires.

Endgame would have been a dignified end. But the latest Spiderman movie proves it doesn't want to get on the cart, and there is still some enthusiasm left.

I guess it depends if you accept that art and business are the same thing in Hollywood. Business always outlasts art. Especially with the latest trend of nostalgia farming.

The first story ever told by humanity was a superhero story. So you may have to wait a while for whatever movies you think they'll make if they weren't making superhero flicks.

Well, I suppose I lobbed that softball.

Entertainment is both eternal and ephemeral. Like bellbottoms and 80s rock, it comes back when the kids discover what their parents listened to when they in turn get into adulthood.

Stories don't just end forever, but it is cyclical. If comic book movies "die" for 20 years, and make a big comeback by 2040 wouldn't be suprising. You CAN get bored hearing/seeing the same thing over and over again. It's just human nature.


Westerns reigned supreme for.... 70 years?
 
2022-08-30 10:33:40 AM  

Fano: DerAppie: AppleOptionEsc: Fano: Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.

Besides some minor plot holes, the Marvel Universe is so damn successful because each movie works as part of one story.

Only the first few seasons. The "one big story" aspect is disintegrating ever more with every release.

/I still think they should have stopped after Infinity War

I'm sort of glad for them to do stories like Ms Marvel, Hawkeye, and She-Hulk. Smaller stakes with occasional crossovers. When everything has the entire universe at stake, you start to ask questions like "where was Captain Marvel during this?" And "why were they holding back The Ultimate Nullifier? They had nothing left to lose."
The show runners definitely need to consult someone for continuity, it's true. But that should always take a back seat to story, you can always find a way that someone got out of the cockadoodie car.
Meanwhile, I enjoyed seeing the same plaza from Hawkeye and realizing Spider-man had or was about to have a fight there too.


That's definitely a big issue. They felt the need to keep going bigger and bigger. At various points I was going "the multiverse/universe/planet/reality is at stake. Why aren't you calling in help?"

Like in Multiverse of Madness where they mocked the idea of calling in the guy with a mohawk and a bow. Then man the walls with sorcerers with bows. Or the bit where they mocked the idea of calling in a bug themed superhero. As if Spiderman or Antman couldn't run interference. Plus the freedom/life of everyone in the multiverse is at risk here. Surely calling them in won't hurt.
 
2022-08-30 10:34:34 AM  

sniderman: Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Flashpoint, Countdown, Yet Another Crisis, New 52, Jesus H. Crisis...


This made me laugh much harder than expected. So thank you for that.
 
2022-08-30 10:54:22 AM  
Here's one thing I know: special effects have finally caught up to the abilities of superheroes that we have all dreamed of seeing for decades, and not just cheap stuff like pretending to be super strong by bending rubber "iron" bars or styrofoam boulders.  No preponderance of "psychic" powers that are just squinting and putting your fingers on your temples and stuff happens.
Finally we can have all the characters and stories that just couldn't be filmed and I think it's great that this is occurring. I've read enough stories of middle aged literature professors having a midlife crisis and justifying their affairs and their ennui.
 
2022-08-30 10:59:57 AM  

DerAppie: Fano: DerAppie: AppleOptionEsc: Fano: Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.

Besides some minor plot holes, the Marvel Universe is so damn successful because each movie works as part of one story.

Only the first few seasons. The "one big story" aspect is disintegrating ever more with every release.

/I still think they should have stopped after Infinity War

I'm sort of glad for them to do stories like Ms Marvel, Hawkeye, and She-Hulk. Smaller stakes with occasional crossovers. When everything has the entire universe at stake, you start to ask questions like "where was Captain Marvel during this?" And "why were they holding back The Ultimate Nullifier? They had nothing left to lose."
The show runners definitely need to consult someone for continuity, it's true. But that should always take a back seat to story, you can always find a way that someone got out of the cockadoodie car.
Meanwhile, I enjoyed seeing the same plaza from Hawkeye and realizing Spider-man had or was about to have a fight there too.

That's definitely a big issue. They felt the need to keep going bigger and bigger. At various points I was going "the multiverse/universe/planet/reality is at stake. Why aren't you calling in help?"

Like in Multiverse of Madness where they mocked the idea of calling in the guy with a mohawk and a bow. Then man the walls with sorcerers with bows. Or the bit where they mocked the idea of calling in a bug themed superhero. As if Spiderman or Antman couldn't run interference. Plus the freedom/life of everyone in the multiverse is at risk here. Surely calling them in won't hurt.


Yep. At least with street level or personal conflicts it's plausible there isn't time or need to bring anyone else in, or if some other hero comes in it's because they stumbled onto the case doing something else fighting their own baddies.
In this case I am perfectly fine spending some breather years where heroes try to sort everything out after The Snap and try to reassert normalcy.
In this sense, and on topic, a continuity expert can at least give a general idea of what other teams are doing at any given time.
I note that Hulk is about to be busy for a while.
 
2022-08-30 11:41:41 AM  

Fano: I note that Hulk is about to be busy for a while.


I think the correct term is "written out of the story."

We're never getting a proper Planet Hulk or a World War Hulk if only because even Marvel will stop at turning the nuking of Hulk's family into a joke.

/That and he'll never be allowed to fight and win vs half the current line-up because they are women
 
2022-08-30 11:55:55 AM  

AppleOptionEsc: Fano: Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.

Besides some minor plot holes, the Marvel Universe is so damn successful because each movie works as part of one story.

Star Trek works despite these things. (Or does it?! Some fans continue to bemoan endlessly about the LensFlareverse). James Bond too.

Writing matters more than continuity. But it sure as shiat is easier to continue stories with someone telling you stuff vs. just flinging shiat at a wall. Good writing also helps, and as a suprise, consistency is part of good story telling.

Cannon takes a backseat to a good story. But if every story was good, we would bot be living in reality. Good only exists is relation to bad. Consitency matters.


Right now the MCU is where Marvel Comics was in the mid 60s in terms of volume of continuity. It's easy to keep it straight. Give it more time and it will be just as big a mess as the comics are and collapse under the volume of content that needs to be considered.
 
2022-08-30 12:52:17 PM  

SuperChuck: AppleOptionEsc: Fano: Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.

Besides some minor plot holes, the Marvel Universe is so damn successful because each movie works as part of one story.

Star Trek works despite these things. (Or does it?! Some fans continue to bemoan endlessly about the LensFlareverse). James Bond too.

Writing matters more than continuity. But it sure as shiat is easier to continue stories with someone telling you stuff vs. just flinging shiat at a wall. Good writing also helps, and as a suprise, consistency is part of good story telling.

Cannon takes a backseat to a good story. But if every story was good, we would bot be living in reality. Good only exists is relation to bad. Consitency matters.

Right now the MCU is where Marvel Comics was in the mid 60s in terms of volume of continuity. It's easy to keep it straight. Give it more time and it will be just as big a mess as the comics are and collapse under the volume of content that needs to be considered.


The Marvel Comics approach to decades of continuity is pretty simple. They only strictly adhere to continuity from maybe the past 20 years of publication, and any stuff that didn't work gets explained away and ignored. Continuity older than about 20 years is just sort of blurred into the vibes of the stories unless it's a major beat for the character or book. I think the MCU fans are going to have to get used to that kind of storytelling. Yes, the blip happened, but no, we aren't going discuss it every time we introduce new characters. Yes, there is a giant marble celestial popping out of the Indian Ocean, but no, Kamala Khan doesn't have anything to say about it.
 
2022-08-30 2:08:18 PM  

shut_it_down: SuperChuck: AppleOptionEsc: Fano: Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.

Besides some minor plot holes, the Marvel Universe is so damn successful because each movie works as part of one story.

Star Trek works despite these things. (Or does it?! Some fans continue to bemoan endlessly about the LensFlareverse). James Bond too.

Writing matters more than continuity. But it sure as shiat is easier to continue stories with someone telling you stuff vs. just flinging shiat at a wall. Good writing also helps, and as a suprise, consistency is part of good story telling.

Cannon takes a backseat to a good story. But if every story was good, we would bot be living in reality. Good only exists is relation to bad. Consitency matters.

Right now the MCU is where Marvel Comics was in the mid 60s in terms of volume of continuity. It's easy to keep it straight. Give it more time and it will be just as big a mess as the comics are and collapse under the volume of content that needs to be considered.

The Marvel Comics approach to decades of continuity is pretty simple. They only strictly adhere to continuity from maybe the past 20 years of publication, and any stuff that didn't work gets explained away and ignored. Continuity older than about 20 years is just sort of blurred into the vibes of the stories unless it's a major beat for the character or book. I think the MCU fans are going to have to get used to that kind of storytelling. Yes, the blip happened, but no, we aren't going discuss it every time we introduce new characters. Yes, there is a giant marble celestial popping out of the Indian Ocean, but no, Kamala Khan doesn't have anything to say about it.


I happen to think it's a really good system. It is possible to hold 5 different backstories simultaneously for a character if there are good elements to each
 
2022-08-30 2:30:06 PM  

Fano: I happen to think it's a really good system. It is possible to hold 5 different backstories simultaneously for a character if there are good elements to each


I agree! I mean look at how many times they've messed with Wolverine's backstory. It makes absolutely no sense anymore but everyone just goes with it and it's fine.
 
2022-08-30 2:36:05 PM  

Fano: AppleOptionEsc: Fano: AppleOptionEsc: DerAppie: AppleOptionEsc: Fano: Continuity Wanks are pondscum only worthy of No Prizes if they can contrive ways that the printed stuff isn't actually in error.

Besides some minor plot holes, the Marvel Universe is so damn successful because each movie works as part of one story.

Only the first few seasons. The "one big story" aspect is disintegrating ever more with every release.

/I still think they should have stopped after Infinity War

Multiverse does that.

I hate to beat a deadhorse even deader, but superhero movies can only be a trend for so long. It isn't really bad, per se, that it is falling apart. Horror movies. Parody movies. Spaghetti westerns. 50s sci-fi. YA movies. Disaster porn. Cyberpunk. Vampires.

Endgame would have been a dignified end. But the latest Spiderman movie proves it doesn't want to get on the cart, and there is still some enthusiasm left.

I guess it depends if you accept that art and business are the same thing in Hollywood. Business always outlasts art. Especially with the latest trend of nostalgia farming.

The first story ever told by humanity was a superhero story. So you may have to wait a while for whatever movies you think they'll make if they weren't making superhero flicks.

Well, I suppose I lobbed that softball.

Entertainment is both eternal and ephemeral. Like bellbottoms and 80s rock, it comes back when the kids discover what their parents listened to when they in turn get into adulthood.

Stories don't just end forever, but it is cyclical. If comic book movies "die" for 20 years, and make a big comeback by 2040 wouldn't be suprising. You CAN get bored hearing/seeing the same thing over and over again. It's just human nature.

Westerns reigned supreme for.... 70 years?


and many of those were based on samurai flicks and stories
 
2022-08-30 2:36:25 PM  

shut_it_down: Fano: I happen to think it's a really good system. It is possible to hold 5 different backstories simultaneously for a character if there are good elements to each

I agree! I mean look at how many times they've messed with Wolverine's backstory. It makes absolutely no sense anymore but everyone just goes with it and it's fine.


He's no Hawkman but I mean, I can make sense of Wolverine's backstory and it's not a problem at all.
 
2022-08-30 2:45:39 PM  

Fano: shut_it_down: Fano: I happen to think it's a really good system. It is possible to hold 5 different backstories simultaneously for a character if there are good elements to each

I agree! I mean look at how many times they've messed with Wolverine's backstory. It makes absolutely no sense anymore but everyone just goes with it and it's fine.

He's no Hawkman but I mean, I can make sense of Wolverine's backstory and it's not a problem at all.


Exactly! Despite the fact that his backstory has been retconned over and over and over, fans can still look at that character and go "I get it" because the broad beats of the story remain the same. Experimented on, loses his memory, becomes a Canadian government agent, joins the X-Men. As long as they don't contradict one of the defining character beats, discontinuity is fine.
 
2022-08-30 3:22:47 PM  

Fano: Here's one thing I know: special effects have finally caught up to the abilities of superheroes that we have all dreamed of seeing for decades, and not just cheap stuff like pretending to be super strong by bending rubber "iron" bars or styrofoam boulders.  No preponderance of "psychic" powers that are just squinting and putting your fingers on your temples and stuff happens.
Finally we can have all the characters and stories that just couldn't be filmed and I think it's great that this is occurring. I've read enough stories of middle aged literature professors having a midlife crisis and justifying their affairs and their ennui.


I just rewatched "wonder boys" so I'm getting a kick...
 
2022-08-30 4:07:27 PM  

AppleOptionEsc: I hate to beat a deadhorse even deader, but superhero movies can only be a trend for so long. It isn't really bad, per se, that it is falling apart. Horror movies. Parody movies. Spaghetti westerns. 50s sci-fi. YA movies. Disaster porn. Cyberpunk. Vampires.


Is it falling apart?

I mean I get that DC is a clusterfark, but Marvel/Disney doesn't seem to be having nearly as much trouble. If anything it's still printing obscene amounts of money for them, despite review bombs.


In general, on this topic, I feel like people really hate when canon changes/a retcon happens, but if you think about it: The entire reason why we have a term for canon is because it changes. I think it's fair to debate the quality of those changes, but expecting it not to for any work beyond a certain length/varying by media is a bit of a losing battle. It will. It always will.
 
2022-08-30 4:53:01 PM  

Fart And Smunny: AppleOptionEsc: I hate to beat a deadhorse even deader, but superhero movies can only be a trend for so long. It isn't really bad, per se, that it is falling apart. Horror movies. Parody movies. Spaghetti westerns. 50s sci-fi. YA movies. Disaster porn. Cyberpunk. Vampires.

Is it falling apart?

I mean I get that DC is a clusterfark, but Marvel/Disney doesn't seem to be having nearly as much trouble. If anything it's still printing obscene amounts of money for them, despite review bombs.


In general, on this topic, I feel like people really hate when canon changes/a retcon happens, but if you think about it: The entire reason why we have a term for canon is because it changes. I think it's fair to debate the quality of those changes, but expecting it not to for any work beyond a certain length/varying by media is a bit of a losing battle. It will. It always will.


I get that stuff will change over hundreds of interconnected comic releases.

But the fact that they couldn't keep a straight line about what the multiverse is and how it works over 3 films and  1 series is just sad.
 
2022-08-30 5:24:24 PM  

DerAppie: Fart And Smunny: AppleOptionEsc: I hate to beat a deadhorse even deader, but superhero movies can only be a trend for so long. It isn't really bad, per se, that it is falling apart. Horror movies. Parody movies. Spaghetti westerns. 50s sci-fi. YA movies. Disaster porn. Cyberpunk. Vampires.

Is it falling apart?

I mean I get that DC is a clusterfark, but Marvel/Disney doesn't seem to be having nearly as much trouble. If anything it's still printing obscene amounts of money for them, despite review bombs.


In general, on this topic, I feel like people really hate when canon changes/a retcon happens, but if you think about it: The entire reason why we have a term for canon is because it changes. I think it's fair to debate the quality of those changes, but expecting it not to for any work beyond a certain length/varying by media is a bit of a losing battle. It will. It always will.

I get that stuff will change over hundreds of interconnected comic releases.

But the fact that they couldn't keep a straight line about what the multiverse is and how it works over 3 films and  1 series is just sad.


Ok, I'll bite. What was so inconsistent? Loki showed that people don't necessarily look the same from universe to universe, but sometimes they do (President Loki was also played by Tom Hiddleston). So the Spiders-Man being played by different actors makes sense. As do the multiple Cumberbatch Stranges, since the whole point of the multiverse is that any permutations are possible.
 
2022-08-30 10:45:39 PM  

shut_it_down: Yes, there is a giant marble celestial popping out of the Indian Ocean, but no, Kamala Khan doesn't have anything to say about it.


Actually, if you look closely at She-Hulk's laptop screen:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-30 11:43:06 PM  

shut_it_down: DerAppie: Fart And Smunny: AppleOptionEsc: I hate to beat a deadhorse even deader, but superhero movies can only be a trend for so long. It isn't really bad, per se, that it is falling apart. Horror movies. Parody movies. Spaghetti westerns. 50s sci-fi. YA movies. Disaster porn. Cyberpunk. Vampires.

Is it falling apart?

I mean I get that DC is a clusterfark, but Marvel/Disney doesn't seem to be having nearly as much trouble. If anything it's still printing obscene amounts of money for them, despite review bombs.


In general, on this topic, I feel like people really hate when canon changes/a retcon happens, but if you think about it: The entire reason why we have a term for canon is because it changes. I think it's fair to debate the quality of those changes, but expecting it not to for any work beyond a certain length/varying by media is a bit of a losing battle. It will. It always will.

I get that stuff will change over hundreds of interconnected comic releases.

But the fact that they couldn't keep a straight line about what the multiverse is and how it works over 3 films and  1 series is just sad.

Ok, I'll bite. What was so inconsistent? Loki showed that people don't necessarily look the same from universe to universe, but sometimes they do (President Loki was also played by Tom Hiddleston). So the Spiders-Man being played by different actors makes sense. As do the multiple Cumberbatch Stranges, since the whole point of the multiverse is that any permutations are possible.


I already made that post in this thread.
 
2022-08-31 6:56:13 AM  
And just like Star Wars - which has a whole committee of people devoted to making sure the stories all gel together and the timeline makes sense - as soon as someone "important" decides that they don't want to have to worry about things like "consistency" or "logic" then they are totally free to go ahead and do that.

In summary, fark you J.J. Abrams.
 
2022-08-31 8:25:31 AM  

shut_it_down: DerAppie: Fart And Smunny: AppleOptionEsc: I hate to beat a deadhorse even deader, but superhero movies can only be a trend for so long. It isn't really bad, per se, that it is falling apart. Horror movies. Parody movies. Spaghetti westerns. 50s sci-fi. YA movies. Disaster porn. Cyberpunk. Vampires.

Is it falling apart?

I mean I get that DC is a clusterfark, but Marvel/Disney doesn't seem to be having nearly as much trouble. If anything it's still printing obscene amounts of money for them, despite review bombs.


In general, on this topic, I feel like people really hate when canon changes/a retcon happens, but if you think about it: The entire reason why we have a term for canon is because it changes. I think it's fair to debate the quality of those changes, but expecting it not to for any work beyond a certain length/varying by media is a bit of a losing battle. It will. It always will.

I get that stuff will change over hundreds of interconnected comic releases.

But the fact that they couldn't keep a straight line about what the multiverse is and how it works over 3 films and  1 series is just sad.

Ok, I'll bite. What was so inconsistent? Loki showed that people don't necessarily look the same from universe to universe, but sometimes they do (President Loki was also played by Tom Hiddleston). So the Spiders-Man being played by different actors makes sense. As do the multiple Cumberbatch Stranges, since the whole point of the multiverse is that any permutations are possible.


I'm kinds suspecting you of just funnying my reply without any further consideration. If this is true, why is it funny, and why not put in an actual reply?

Everything I wrote is factually correct afaik, so either I'm right and they're not keeping what an universe/the multiverse is and how it behaves consistent, or you think I'm wrong and I'd love to hear why you think so.
 
2022-08-31 10:13:38 AM  

DerAppie: shut_it_down: DerAppie: Fart And Smunny: AppleOptionEsc: I hate to beat a deadhorse even deader, but superhero movies can only be a trend for so long. It isn't really bad, per se, that it is falling apart. Horror movies. Parody movies. Spaghetti westerns. 50s sci-fi. YA movies. Disaster porn. Cyberpunk. Vampires.

Is it falling apart?

I mean I get that DC is a clusterfark, but Marvel/Disney doesn't seem to be having nearly as much trouble. If anything it's still printing obscene amounts of money for them, despite review bombs.


In general, on this topic, I feel like people really hate when canon changes/a retcon happens, but if you think about it: The entire reason why we have a term for canon is because it changes. I think it's fair to debate the quality of those changes, but expecting it not to for any work beyond a certain length/varying by media is a bit of a losing battle. It will. It always will.

I get that stuff will change over hundreds of interconnected comic releases.

But the fact that they couldn't keep a straight line about what the multiverse is and how it works over 3 films and  1 series is just sad.

Ok, I'll bite. What was so inconsistent? Loki showed that people don't necessarily look the same from universe to universe, but sometimes they do (President Loki was also played by Tom Hiddleston). So the Spiders-Man being played by different actors makes sense. As do the multiple Cumberbatch Stranges, since the whole point of the multiverse is that any permutations are possible.

I'm kinds suspecting you of just funnying my reply without any further consideration. If this is true, why is it funny, and why not put in an actual reply?

Everything I wrote is factually correct afaik, so either I'm right and they're not keeping what an universe/the multiverse is and how it behaves consistent, or you think I'm wrong and I'd love to hear why you think so.


Not me, but based on your post, you are the kind of MCU fan that my other comment was directed towards. You just have to let minor inconsistencies go. It's the nature of a shared universe with hundreds of creators sticking their fingers in that not every little detail is going to match up perfectly. You're getting mad about the difference between the use of "multiverse" and "timeline" and a passing use of the world "multiverse" from a movie from five years ago. It isn't that deep. All that really matters now is that diverging timelines (for now) seem to be the source of the multiverse and can only be crossed in certain ways. Minor comments that don't really align with that? Attribute it to the characters being a little wrong and move along.
 
2022-08-31 10:28:12 AM  

shut_it_down: Not me, but based on your post, you are the kind of MCU fan that my other comment was directed towards. You just have to let minor inconsistencies go. It's the nature of a shared universe with hundreds of creators sticking their fingers in that not every little detail is going to match up perfectly. You're getting mad about the difference between the use of "multiverse" and "timeline" and a passing use of the world "multiverse" from a movie from five years ago. It isn't that deep. All that really matters now is that diverging timelines (for now) seem to be the source of the multiverse and can only be crossed in certain ways. Minor comments that don't really align with that? Attribute it to the characters being a little wrong and move along.


I'd argue that the way the very universe works isn't a "small inconsistency." If we're waving that away, then nothing matters. Just look at the pretty colors and don't ask questions about why Harry Potter and Picard, and Luke Skywalker join up in the next Iron Man movie to defeat Cthulu by tapdancing at him. "It is just something that happened and the fact that the film got made shows that this is how it works."
 
2022-08-31 11:03:13 AM  

DerAppie: shut_it_down: Not me, but based on your post, you are the kind of MCU fan that my other comment was directed towards. You just have to let minor inconsistencies go. It's the nature of a shared universe with hundreds of creators sticking their fingers in that not every little detail is going to match up perfectly. You're getting mad about the difference between the use of "multiverse" and "timeline" and a passing use of the world "multiverse" from a movie from five years ago. It isn't that deep. All that really matters now is that diverging timelines (for now) seem to be the source of the multiverse and can only be crossed in certain ways. Minor comments that don't really align with that? Attribute it to the characters being a little wrong and move along.

I'd argue that the way the very universe works isn't a "small inconsistency." If we're waving that away, then nothing matters. Just look at the pretty colors and don't ask questions about why Harry Potter and Picard, and Luke Skywalker join up in the next Iron Man movie to defeat Cthulu by tapdancing at him. "It is just something that happened and the fact that the film got made shows that this is how it works."


They've been clear about the way the universe works. What you're getting hung up on is far more pedantic, and that's terminology. More specifically, you're getting hung up on the fact that characters with imperfect understandings of their universe aren't always using the right words to describe it. But more importantly, even if it is actually inconsistent, you can either get over it or just stop watching. Marvel told stories for decades before the movies existed, and one of the reasons they're able to have 80 years of continuity is because they don't chain themselves to every little bit of it. They change it make sense with the stories they are telling now. The last thing we need is a bunch of pedants getting their panties in a wad because Wong once "multiverse" when he shouldn't have, and now you think the entire universe system is broken. Get a grip.
 
2022-08-31 12:36:10 PM  

shut_it_down: DerAppie: shut_it_down: Not me, but based on your post, you are the kind of MCU fan that my other comment was directed towards. You just have to let minor inconsistencies go. It's the nature of a shared universe with hundreds of creators sticking their fingers in that not every little detail is going to match up perfectly. You're getting mad about the difference between the use of "multiverse" and "timeline" and a passing use of the world "multiverse" from a movie from five years ago. It isn't that deep. All that really matters now is that diverging timelines (for now) seem to be the source of the multiverse and can only be crossed in certain ways. Minor comments that don't really align with that? Attribute it to the characters being a little wrong and move along.

I'd argue that the way the very universe works isn't a "small inconsistency." If we're waving that away, then nothing matters. Just look at the pretty colors and don't ask questions about why Harry Potter and Picard, and Luke Skywalker join up in the next Iron Man movie to defeat Cthulu by tapdancing at him. "It is just something that happened and the fact that the film got made shows that this is how it works."

They've been clear about the way the universe works. What you're getting hung up on is far more pedantic, and that's terminology. More specifically, you're getting hung up on the fact that characters with imperfect understandings of their universe aren't always using the right words to describe it. But more importantly, even if it is actually inconsistent, you can either get over it or just stop watching. Marvel told stories for decades before the movies existed, and one of the reasons they're able to have 80 years of continuity is because they don't chain themselves to every little bit of it. They change it make sense with the stories they are telling now. The last thing we need is a bunch of pedants getting their panties in a wad because Wong once "multiverse" when he shouldn't have, and now yo ...


Okay, last post since you're just waving everything away anyway:

- If I can't trust The Ancient One when she said how sorcerers get their magic and that they travel the multiverse
- If I can't trust Kang when he said why he has been destroying entire time lines/universes for uncountable years
- If I can't trust the events in Multiverse of Madness in which Strange being in a different universe caused an incursion

because every single one of them was just "mistaken" or "lying" every single time, then what is the use of providing the viewer with any kind of information? This isn't a comicbook with 80 years of legacy that's bogging things down. The multiverse in the MCU is a concept which has been mentioned in like 3 movies and 1 series. That's not the point to go "screw what came before, we're doing whatever."

All they had to do was not have multiversal travel destroy universes, and not have Kang destroy all other time lines/universes but only the ones that would give rise to his counterparts. In an infinite multiverse, that would still allow for a lot of moving back and forth. Boom, concept maintained and viewers would know what is going on whenthe Kang movie comes out and we're doing multiverse stuff.

/Because I'm already expecting them to throw the concept of incursions overboard in Kang's movie
 
2022-08-31 12:56:15 PM  

DerAppie: Okay, last post since you're just waving everything away anyway:

- If I can't trust The Ancient One when she said how sorcerers get their magic and that they travel the multiverse
- If I can't trust Kang when he said why he has been destroying entire time lines/universes for uncountable years
- If I can't trust the events in Multiverse of Madness in which Strange being in a different universe caused an incursion

because every single one of them was just "mistaken" or "lying" every single time, then what is the use of providing the viewer with any kind of information? This isn't a comicbook with 80 years of legacy that's bogging things down. The multiverse in the MCU is a concept which has been mentioned in like 3 movies and 1 series. That's not the point to go "screw what came before, we're doing whatever."

All they had to do was not have multiversal travel destroy universes, and not have Kang destroy all other time lines/universes but only the ones that would give rise to his counterparts. In an infinite multiverse, that would still allow for a lot of moving back and forth. Boom, concept maintained and viewers would know what is going on whenthe Kang movie comes out and we're doing multiverse stuff.

/Because I'm already expecting them to throw the concept of incursions overboard in Kang's movie


You completely lost me when you complained about not being able to trust Kang. KANG. The guy who lied about his very existence? Lied about the purpose and origins of the TVA? Lied to everyone IN the TVA about where they came from and why they were stopping timelines? Are you just flat out not paying attention? Also, your suggestions as to what you think would be better would actually mean completely scrapping Secret Wars because the incursions are integral to that story. Bottom line, if you can't roll with minor inconsistencies (and that's what your complaints would amount to at best) then you should just stop watching Marvel stuff because it's not going to get better for you. And frankly, I don't want them to start chaining themselves to continuity to make you guys happy because that's the kind of crap that makes Star Wars suck.
 
2022-08-31 2:40:06 PM  

shut_it_down: You completely lost me when you complained about not being able to trust Kang. KANG.


Okay, I couldn't resist this one.

Kang was at the point where he was either going to die (he let himself get stabbed without any resistance) or hand over power (why lie about that if he was willing to get stabbed). Why would he lie at that point when he explained how it all worked and the why? Plus if it was all a lie, the showrunners wasted 20 minutes of the final episode's 40 minutes on a worthless exposition dump.

I don't know which is worse.

shut_it_down: Also, your suggestions as to what you think would be better would actually mean completely scrapping Secret Wars because the incursions are integral to that story.


The incursions in the comics were caused by Beyonders (from beyond the multiverse) farking shiat up. They can do that without multiverse travel itself being the cause of incursions.
 
2022-08-31 2:53:54 PM  
You get annoyed at all that - I was just annoyed that they established the MCU universe as 616.
 
2022-08-31 3:07:04 PM  
To me, the simplest and most direct explanation for that is that the "sacred timeline" includes multiple universes. It may not be right, but it fits, to me.
 
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