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(CNN)   Boeing Starliner is not going until February 2023   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Space Shuttle, Human spaceflight, International Space Station, space agency, Space exploration, decades-long partner of NASA, NASA, first attempt  
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876 clicks; posted to STEM » on 26 Aug 2022 at 2:45 PM (23 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



19 Comments     (+0 »)
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2022-08-26 1:46:52 PM  
Is it a boondoggle yet?
 
2022-08-26 3:28:07 PM  
I feel like the success of JWST has maybe (hopefully) taken an edge off delays and engineers and managers can work under a little less pressure, and maybe that'll lead to better (if slightly more delayed) products.

Though, in fairness, when it comes to Boeing, the more time it spends in development, the more likely some smug upper manager is to make a catastrophic decision.  Can't be too lax.
 
2022-08-26 3:58:51 PM  
It's good to have a backup to Dragon for extremely rare contingencies. It is a shame that it sucks so much, though.
 
2022-08-26 4:05:14 PM  
Boeing will come through fine when they can once again focus on their core competency: maximizing shareholder value through stock buybacks.
 
2022-08-26 4:08:38 PM  

edmo: Is it a boondoggle yet?


As long as Boeing has SLS, it will only be Boeing's minor boondoggle.

On the other hand, the US really wanted two US backups to not be dependent on Soyuz to get astronauts into space and to the ISS.  Vlad has lowered the boondoggle status even more than JWST.  I just don't see ULA partnering with Boeing again, even if they were [half] founded by Boeing.
 
2022-08-26 4:41:34 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: edmo: Is it a boondoggle yet?

As long as Boeing has SLS, it will only be Boeing's minor boondoggle.

On the other hand, the US really wanted two US backups to not be dependent on Soyuz to get astronauts into space and to the ISS.  Vlad has lowered the boondoggle status even more than JWST.  I just don't see ULA partnering with Boeing again, even if they were [half] founded by Boeing.


Dream Chaser is making progress.  And it will be able to reboost the ISS, as well.
 
2022-08-26 4:44:57 PM  
They are charmingly optimistic.
 
2022-08-26 4:48:36 PM  

edmo: Is it a boondoggle yet?


It passed that milepost last year.

At this rate, the ISS won't be around when Boeing gets things right.
 
2022-08-26 4:50:31 PM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: yet_another_wumpus: edmo: Is it a boondoggle yet?

As long as Boeing has SLS, it will only be Boeing's minor boondoggle.

On the other hand, the US really wanted two US backups to not be dependent on Soyuz to get astronauts into space and to the ISS.  Vlad has lowered the boondoggle status even more than JWST.  I just don't see ULA partnering with Boeing again, even if they were [half] founded by Boeing.

Dream Chaser is making progress.  And it will be able to reboost the ISS, as well.


I thought SNC abandoned its plans to make it man-rated?
 
2022-08-26 5:11:52 PM  

The Bestest: Nicholas D. Wolfwood: yet_another_wumpus: edmo: Is it a boondoggle yet?

As long as Boeing has SLS, it will only be Boeing's minor boondoggle.

On the other hand, the US really wanted two US backups to not be dependent on Soyuz to get astronauts into space and to the ISS.  Vlad has lowered the boondoggle status even more than JWST.  I just don't see ULA partnering with Boeing again, even if they were [half] founded by Boeing.

Dream Chaser is making progress.  And it will be able to reboost the ISS, as well.

I thought SNC abandoned its plans to make it man-rated?


I think it is still a long-term goal, but for the time being it is cargo only. Just don't quote me on that.
 
2022-08-26 5:30:16 PM  

TheMysteriousStranger: The Bestest: Nicholas D. Wolfwood: yet_another_wumpus: edmo: Is it a boondoggle yet?

As long as Boeing has SLS, it will only be Boeing's minor boondoggle.

On the other hand, the US really wanted two US backups to not be dependent on Soyuz to get astronauts into space and to the ISS.  Vlad has lowered the boondoggle status even more than JWST.  I just don't see ULA partnering with Boeing again, even if they were [half] founded by Boeing.

Dream Chaser is making progress.  And it will be able to reboost the ISS, as well.

I thought SNC abandoned its plans to make it man-rated?

I think it is still a long-term goal, but for the time being it is cargo only. Just don't quote me on that.


Yeah, if my memory isn't playing tricks again, I believe they're going for an initial cargo-only rating, to get some miles on the spaceframe and get the kinks worked out, but they are still planning to man-rate it.

They might want to have it bringing in some income to start with, to defray the extra work.  That's pretty much what SpaceX did with Dragon --> Crew Dragon.

I don't know how you feel about 'Angry Astronaut', but here's some stuff he had on Sierra Space three months ago.

Dream Chaser UNVEILED!! Exclusive Content!! Sierra Space Tour Part 2
Youtube 0p71TmCPa-w
 
2022-08-26 10:34:13 PM  
Out of curiosity, how angry is everyone going to be if all of this works and we really get all of this moon and Mars and belter stuff going?

I for one welcome the proto molecule.
 
2022-08-27 8:07:18 AM  
Starliner will be the first American spacecraft to be rejected by NASA. There are basic design faults that will not be remedied by fixes or patches, and the hyperafraid NASA of today won't take the risk of sending astronauts up in that bucket of bolts, especially with a safe alternative available now and a second safe alternative coming up in 2-3 years (Orion). Boeing would do better by junking the thing and starting over.
 
2022-08-27 11:31:54 AM  

8tReAsUrEz: Starliner will be the first American spacecraft to be rejected by NASA. There are basic design faults that will not be remedied by fixes or patches, and the hyperafraid NASA of today won't take the risk of sending astronauts up in that bucket of bolts, especially with a safe alternative available now and a second safe alternative coming up in 2-3 years (Orion). Boeing would do better by junking the thing and starting over.


Orion is a completely different type of craft and mission profile than Dragon and Starliner.
 
2022-08-27 2:59:20 PM  

The Bestest: 8tReAsUrEz: Starliner will be the first American spacecraft to be rejected by NASA. There are basic design faults that will not be remedied by fixes or patches, and the hyperafraid NASA of today won't take the risk of sending astronauts up in that bucket of bolts, especially with a safe alternative available now and a second safe alternative coming up in 2-3 years (Orion). Boeing would do better by junking the thing and starting over.

Orion is a completely different type of craft and mission profile than Dragon and Starliner.


Yup.  No one seems to be paying attention to Dream Chaser.  Do they know something I don't, or am I seeing something in Sierra Space that isn't there?

I'd say Dream Chaser is the more likely threat to Starliner as the alternative to Crew Dragon, and I'd bet money now that Dream Chaser can be man-rated sooner than Starliner can be made safe.
 
2022-08-27 5:22:20 PM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: The Bestest: 8tReAsUrEz: Starliner will be the first American spacecraft to be rejected by NASA. There are basic design faults that will not be remedied by fixes or patches, and the hyperafraid NASA of today won't take the risk of sending astronauts up in that bucket of bolts, especially with a safe alternative available now and a second safe alternative coming up in 2-3 years (Orion). Boeing would do better by junking the thing and starting over.

Orion is a completely different type of craft and mission profile than Dragon and Starliner.

Yup.  No one seems to be paying attention to Dream Chaser.  Do they know something I don't, or am I seeing something in Sierra Space that isn't there?

I'd say Dream Chaser is the more likely threat to Starliner as the alternative to Crew Dragon, and I'd bet money now that Dream Chaser can be man-rated sooner than Starliner can be made safe.


Given that Starliner cannot be made safe because of basic design flaws, Sierra has time to get money and finish the plane
 
2022-08-27 5:41:58 PM  

8tReAsUrEz: Nicholas D. Wolfwood: The Bestest: 8tReAsUrEz: Starliner will be the first American spacecraft to be rejected by NASA. There are basic design faults that will not be remedied by fixes or patches, and the hyperafraid NASA of today won't take the risk of sending astronauts up in that bucket of bolts, especially with a safe alternative available now and a second safe alternative coming up in 2-3 years (Orion). Boeing would do better by junking the thing and starting over.

Orion is a completely different type of craft and mission profile than Dragon and Starliner.

Yup.  No one seems to be paying attention to Dream Chaser.  Do they know something I don't, or am I seeing something in Sierra Space that isn't there?

I'd say Dream Chaser is the more likely threat to Starliner as the alternative to Crew Dragon, and I'd bet money now that Dream Chaser can be man-rated sooner than Starliner can be made safe.

Given that Starliner cannot be made safe because of basic design flaws, Sierra has time to get money and finish the plane


True.  I should have said 'Safer', not 'safe'.

Even with the basic design flaws, there is room for improvement, even if only in their quality control and testing.
 
2022-08-27 10:16:05 PM  
I heard they had to revise its load capacity but didn't want to commit to an entire replacement so they just increased the size of the engines and load area and are now working on a software system to manage the change.
 
2022-08-27 10:18:46 PM  
Keep it under your hat, though. They don't want to have to retrain the astronauts so are making the new system fully automated and just mentioning as a side note. They say it'll be fine.
 
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