Skip to content
Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Ars Technica)   Ethereum's upcoming change from Proof-of-work to Proof-of-stake may require Proof-of-life for the company if it goes badly. On the upside, graphics card prices should drop from their inflated highs   (arstechnica.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Mining, Bitcoin's pseudonymous founder Satoshi Nakamoto, The Network, Ethereum blockchain, Ethereum founder Vitalik Buterin, major overhaul of the Ethereum network, most significant change, bitcoin mining  
•       •       •

630 clicks; posted to STEM » on 19 Aug 2022 at 10:38 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



35 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-08-19 9:55:58 PM  
I doubt it's going to actually happen, but if it does, it should be highly entertaining.
 
2022-08-19 10:53:57 PM  
People are worried that Vitalik Buterin Presents Vitalik Buterin's Ethereum by Vitalik Buterin (a Tyler Perry production) will become too centralized.
 
2022-08-19 11:05:53 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I doubt it's going to actually happen, but if it does, it should be highly entertaining.


I think it will happen, and that the transition itself will go smoothly. Something will break in an unexpected manner a few weeks/months down the road, but the merge will be a done deal.
 
2022-08-19 11:12:09 PM  
This is a no lose situation.

Either it works, and the bottom drops out for all the miners, energy usage tanks, and graphics cards become a customer commodity again...

Or it fails horribly, Ethereum and related projects due, shiat tons of scammers lose their money, then the bottom drops out for all the miners, energy usage tanks, and graphics cards become a customer commodity again.

What's not to love?
 
2022-08-19 11:25:03 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Marcus Aurelius: I doubt it's going to actually happen, but if it does, it should be highly entertaining.

I think it will happen, and that the transition itself will go smoothly. Something will break in an unexpected manner a few weeks/months down the road, but the merge will be a done deal.


Sure.  You don't exploit the vulnerability the moment of the merger, too easy to rollback and fork.  You wait until too much "ether" has changed hands and then make your strike.

Looks like we can't continue to laugh at all the old problems that "blockchain tech" had (effectively boiling down $100 dollar bills to make the ink for your  transaction record, all the while heating the Earth).  Now it will have completely different problems (at least they will only bother other cryptobros.  I hope).

And GPU prices are already dropping off a cliff.  Or at least down to MSRP.  Down to an already inflated MSRP two years after launch (and immediately before the next generation launch).  But they started coming down fast a few months ago.

/wasn't there some goofiness about borrowing large chunks of ether for milliseconds?
//and then using said borrowed ether as a massive stake?
///variations like this or similar are bound to screw over ether.  Just look up what happened to cause the first fork.
 
2022-08-20 12:18:09 AM  

yet_another_wumpus: Ivo Shandor: Marcus Aurelius: I doubt it's going to actually happen, but if it does, it should be highly entertaining.

I think it will happen, and that the transition itself will go smoothly. Something will break in an unexpected manner a few weeks/months down the road, but the merge will be a done deal.

Sure.  You don't exploit the vulnerability the moment of the merger, too easy to rollback and fork.  You wait until too much "ether" has changed hands and then make your strike.

Looks like we can't continue to laugh at all the old problems that "blockchain tech" had (effectively boiling down $100 dollar bills to make the ink for your  transaction record, all the while heating the Earth).  Now it will have completely different problems (at least they will only bother other cryptobros.  I hope).

And GPU prices are already dropping off a cliff.  Or at least down to MSRP.  Down to an already inflated MSRP two years after launch (and immediately before the next generation launch).  But they started coming down fast a few months ago.

/wasn't there some goofiness about borrowing large chunks of ether for milliseconds?
//and then using said borrowed ether as a massive stake?
///variations like this or similar are bound to screw over ether.  Just look up what happened to cause the first fork.


Yea, but they need to fall back to the original MSRP, not the inflated one. And then start being competitive from there.

For example, 3070 originally retailed for $499, which should be high for a 2 year old card. Not 50 or 100 cheaper than you can actually buy.

Contrast this from the pre mining era, the GTX 970 was $299. The 1070 was $379.

3080s originally were $699. Those are mostly $800+, you can get one for $780 today. The 980 launched at $549. You could buy them for $450 within months of launch.

And don't forget the tech they had to start adding to some of these cards to cripple mining (LHR) that can start being pulled out of the cards.

No, we need a return to pre mining norms, not inflated MSRP.
 
2022-08-20 12:25:17 AM  

yet_another_wumpus: /wasn't there some goofiness about borrowing large chunks of ether for milliseconds?
//and then using said borrowed ether as a massive stake?
///variations like this or similar are bound to screw over ether.  Just look up what happened to cause the first fork.


Proof-of-stake in this implementation involved transaction blocks being validated by randomly-selected representative samples.  The core mechanic that's saving them processing power is also the primary security step against the kind of shenanigans you're proposing, at least so long as Ether remains popular enough that someone can't organize a large-scale enough attack to reliably fark transactions by statistics alone.

Essentially what proof-of-work does is hold a general election of literally every person multiplied by every piece of company scrip every time someone wants to buy a stick of gum from the company store, while what proof-of-stake does is calculate what sample size is almost certain to be representative of the overall result, arbitrarily pick volunteers at random until it hits that amount of ETH along with whatever minimum number of different participants, and poll that much smaller number instead.

Whether it will work in the sense of being secure is, uh... well, there's literally an Asimov story that discusses how this kind of simplification can go hilariously wrong so how this is gonna go off the rails was metaphorically predicted half a century before the internet was a thing, much less blockchain.  But in principle what they're proposing is mathematically valid and, if we're being honest here, no less farking stupid and inevitably disastrous than proof-of-work because the underlying reason this scam is bad has nothing to do with the verification method and everything to do with even the handful of relatively sincere attempts still being a company scrip pseudocurrency with a value anchored to actual currency only loosely and only so long as the backers of the real currencies decide to tolerate exchanges between the two without regulation.

// I know, I just kinda defended the technical aspects of what's being done in a post that was ultimately still "lol, crypto bros are a bunch of farking morons".  But, I mean... representative polling is a valid idea in statistics, while crypto bros are simultaneously a pack of drooling morons who will inevitably find some way to fark this up too, valid or not.
 
2022-08-20 12:42:58 AM  
The new system for updating the Ethereum blockchain doesn't require the same kind of beefy hardware-or the massive electricity bill that goes with it. So the price of used graphics cards might continue to fall as Ethereum miners exit the industry.

Who's going to be dumb enough to buy a used graphics card in the near future? Those cards weren't just rode hard & put up hot - in some cases, the cards were themselves modified to improve performance and cooling.

No friggin' chance am I buying a used RTX 3xxx series in the next few years. New or nothing.
 
2022-08-20 12:52:20 AM  

yet_another_wumpus: /wasn't there some goofiness about borrowing large chunks of ether for milliseconds?
//and then using said borrowed ether as a massive stake?


"Flash loans" are a thing, but they don't relate to proof-of-stake. When you borrow that large amount you have to re-pay it at the end of that same blockchain transaction. When you stake ETH with a validator node, it's a long-term commitment. In fact there's still no way to get your money out of the system, even after the merge. They're leaving that feature for a future update.
 
2022-08-20 2:21:34 AM  
They keep inventing new things to not understand. Proof of stake sounds just like someone keeping a ledger of paper money, except now it's a shared ledger on a block chain.
 
2022-08-20 5:04:37 AM  
Your dog wants proof of steak.
 
2022-08-20 9:36:14 AM  
So they're going to hand control to people with large amounts of crypto. Gee that definitely sounds like decentralization.
 
2022-08-20 9:56:15 AM  
Oh I've heard that one before. My money's on nuclear fusion becoming viable first.
 
2022-08-20 10:07:28 AM  

Shakin_Haitian: So they're going to hand control to people with large amounts of crypto. Gee that definitely sounds like decentralization.


The problem with theoretical decentralization... Is the reason to do it. Which is because you don't trust established networks, hardware, etc.

I don't have a logical issue at that point, but then being asked to trust a crypto bro over established banks with government backing... That is a really hard sell. I need to trust you more than what you're eschewing... And, that's where the concept of crypto completely falls apart for me.

\Implementation is a whole separate big thing.
\\So is the premise of a ledger being decentralized and forked (split) arbitrarily. Crypto is basically digital stock certificates, not currency
\\\I'll stop there
 
2022-08-20 10:46:58 AM  

Quantumbunny: and graphics cards become a customer commodity again...


GPUs have been readily available at MSRP for at about 6 months now.  It's almost as if it the shortage was caused by pandemic related supply chain shortages instead of the crypto miner boogeyman.

/ car manufacturers are getting their chips too.
// PS5s are still hard to get.  No one is really mining on them.
 
2022-08-20 10:48:29 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: I doubt it's going to actually happen, but if it does, it should be highly entertaining.


Never mind the fact that they recently ran 2 separate testnets.  No issues found.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-20 10:49:58 AM  

Ivo Shandor: Marcus Aurelius: I doubt it's going to actually happen, but if it does, it should be highly entertaining.

I think it will happen, and that the transition itself will go smoothly. Something will break in an unexpected manner a few weeks/months down the road, but the merge will be a done deal.


Hey
Nothing wrong with dreaming......
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-20 10:54:06 AM  

Shakin_Haitian: So they're going to hand control to people with large amounts of crypto. Gee that definitely sounds like decentralization.


Validators are selected randomly by the system.  So far there are 415,000 PoS validators.
 
2022-08-20 10:55:34 AM  

wildcardjack: They keep inventing new things to not understand. Proof of stake sounds just like someone keeping a ledger of paper money, except now it's a shared ledger on a block chain.


Sounds like it.......
 
2022-08-20 11:02:06 AM  
I have a new coin, it's call ScheisseCoin. You send a video of you doing a Scheisse Video, and it gets included in the ScheisseChain. It will be all the rage! Don't miss out, invest now. I have a hole where you can just dump your money into. I only take cash.
 
2022-08-20 11:09:31 AM  

Linux_Yes: Marcus Aurelius: I doubt it's going to actually happen, but if it does, it should be highly entertaining.

Never mind the fact that they recently ran 2 separate testnets.  No issues found.
[Fark user image image 425x323]


NORM!!!

/surprised it took this long
//moth to a flame
///three
 
2022-08-20 11:25:49 AM  
They should just ban crypto. Its not like it helps with fighting inflation or keeping energy prices in check.
 
2022-08-20 11:29:44 AM  

Lord Bear: Quantumbunny: and graphics cards become a customer commodity again...

GPUs have been readily available at MSRP for at about 6 months now.  It's almost as if it the shortage was caused by pandemic related supply chain shortages instead of the crypto miner boogeyman.

/ car manufacturers are getting their chips too.
// PS5s are still hard to get.  No one is really mining on them.


i didn't realize the pandemic started in 2018 or so
 
2022-08-20 11:41:28 AM  
New Farkin User Name:

i didn't realize the pandemic started in 2018 or so

GPUs were not hard to come by until the newest generation of cards.  The 3080 was released in September 2020.

It was trivial to pick up a card anywhere in 2018/19.
 
2022-08-20 1:13:05 PM  

Lord Bear: New Farkin User Name:

i didn't realize the pandemic started in 2018 or so

GPUs were not hard to come by until the newest generation of cards.  The 3080 was released in September 2020.

It was trivial to pick up a card anywhere in 2018/19.


And yet, the cost was inflated, significantly. It's almost like both availability and cost to have been affected by multiple market factors.

Like miners, then a pandemic.

Weird.
 
2022-08-20 1:35:20 PM  
Graphics cards are already come back down to even pre-pre-pandemic pricing in some cases.  Like $1100 CAD for a 3080TI, the last time I saw a flagship card priced at less then $1200 CAD was when the 1080s came out.  Now, this is probably temporary as the vendors are trying to clear out their loads of 30 series cards ahead of the 40 series release in a couple months, but enjoy it while you can folks.
 
2022-08-20 1:45:15 PM  

Quantumbunny: Lord Bear: New Farkin User Name:

i didn't realize the pandemic started in 2018 or so

GPUs were not hard to come by until the newest generation of cards.  The 3080 was released in September 2020.

It was trivial to pick up a card anywhere in 2018/19.

And yet, the cost was inflated, significantly. It's almost like both availability and cost to have been affected by multiple market factors.

Like miners, then a pandemic.

Weird.


In case you didn't notice, all electronics were in short supply.  No one was mining Ethereum on a Ford fuel injection micro controller.  But there were none to be found.

Best estimates have miners at 10% of the market.  The higher end is around 20%.  And yes, they will overpay for a video card.

You know who else will over pay?  Gamers.  The majority part of the market will also over pay for cards.  If someone will drop 1K for a single Counter-strike skin, they will certainly pay an extra few hundred bucks for more fps.

Crypto mining wasn't the reason cards were in short supply and overpriced, no matter how much you want to repeat it.
 
2022-08-20 1:58:48 PM  

Quantumbunny: Lord Bear: New Farkin User Name:

It was trivial to pick up a card anywhere in 2018/19.

And yet, the cost was inflated, significantly. It's almost like both availability and cost to have been affected by multiple market factors.


Also, cost was not inflated on GPUs in '18/19.  It probably isn't even inflated now.  GPUs are probably the most complex thing a person will ever own by an order of magnitude.  Tens of billions of transistors squeezed into a chip the size of your thumbnail.

Its a modern miracle something so complex can be designed and built for what most westerners can buy without a mortgage, or even breaking the bank.
 
2022-08-20 2:01:37 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Graphics cards are already come back down to even pre-pre-pandemic pricing in some cases.  Like $1100 CAD for a 3080TI, the last time I saw a flagship card priced at less then $1200 CAD was when the 1080s came out.  Now, this is probably temporary as the vendors are trying to clear out their loads of 30 series cards ahead of the 40 series release in a couple months, but enjoy it while you can folks.


And while that's still a nauseating price for a card, boy it gives me hope for the 40 or 50 series' xx60 and xx70 cards. A reliable 4k/60 card can finally be had, but you have to pay...that.

/And boy it'd be wonderful if AMD just got back to competing up there.
 
2022-08-20 2:05:57 PM  

Nullav: BumpInTheNight: Graphics cards are already come back down to even pre-pre-pandemic pricing in some cases.  Like $1100 CAD for a 3080TI, the last time I saw a flagship card priced at less then $1200 CAD was when the 1080s came out.  Now, this is probably temporary as the vendors are trying to clear out their loads of 30 series cards ahead of the 40 series release in a couple months, but enjoy it while you can folks.

And while that's still a nauseating price for a card, boy it gives me hope for the 40 or 50 series' xx60 and xx70 cards. A reliable 4k/60 card can finally be had, but you have to pay...that.

/And boy it'd be wonderful if AMD just got back to competing up there.


AMD's offerings are really closing that gap too, we might actually have a competitive market in the upper-tier cards for the next couple years and that sure would be nice.
 
2022-08-20 3:54:24 PM  

Jim_Callahan: yet_another_wumpus: /wasn't there some goofiness about borrowing large chunks of ether for milliseconds?
//and then using said borrowed ether as a massive stake?
///variations like this or similar are bound to screw over ether.  Just look up what happened to cause the first fork.

Proof-of-stake in this implementation involved transaction blocks being validated by randomly-selected representative samples.  The core mechanic that's saving them processing power is also the primary security step against the kind of shenanigans you're proposing, at least so long as Ether remains popular enough that someone can't organize a large-scale enough attack to reliably fark transactions by statistics alone.

Essentially what proof-of-work does is hold a general election of literally every person multiplied by every piece of company scrip every time someone wants to buy a stick of gum from the company store, while what proof-of-stake does is calculate what sample size is almost certain to be representative of the overall result, arbitrarily pick volunteers at random until it hits that amount of ETH along with whatever minimum number of different participants, and poll that much smaller number instead.

Whether it will work in the sense of being secure is, uh... well, there's literally an Asimov story that discusses how this kind of simplification can go hilariously wrong so how this is gonna go off the rails was metaphorically predicted half a century before the internet was a thing, much less blockchain.  But in principle what they're proposing is mathematically valid and, if we're being honest here, no less farking stupid and inevitably disastrous than proof-of-work because the underlying reason this scam is bad has nothing to do with the verification method and everything to do with even the handful of relatively sincere attempts still being a company scrip pseudocurrency with a value anchored to actual currency only loosely and only so long as the backers of the real currencies decide to tolerate exchanges between the two without regulation.

// I know, I just kinda defended the technical aspects of what's being done in a post that was ultimately still "lol, crypto bros are a bunch of farking morons".  But, I mean... representative polling is a valid idea in statistics, while crypto bros are simultaneously a pack of drooling morons who will inevitably find some way to fark this up too, valid or not.


Which Asimov story is that? I'm interested.
 
2022-08-20 4:52:52 PM  

Linux_Yes: Ivo Shandor: Marcus Aurelius: I doubt it's going to actually happen, but if it does, it should be highly entertaining.

I think it will happen, and that the transition itself will go smoothly. Something will break in an unexpected manner a few weeks/months down the road, but the merge will be a done deal.

Hey
Nothing wrong with dreaming......
[Fark user image image 236x234]


"But Lord I noticed that during the hardest times of my life, there was only one set of hands on my dick. I don't understand why, when I needed You the most, You would leave me."

He whispered, "My precious child, I love you and will never leave you. During those hard times, when you saw only one set of hands on your dick, I fapped for you."
 
2022-08-20 8:43:09 PM  

AlphaG33k: I have a new coin, it's call ScheisseCoin. You send a video of you doing a Scheisse Video, and it gets included in the ScheisseChain. It will be all the rage! Don't miss out, invest now. I have a hole where you can just dump your money into. I only take cash.



Scatman is back!!
 
2022-08-20 8:44:51 PM  

Nullav: Oh I've heard that one before. My money's on nuclear fusion becoming viable first.



the Space Aliens are already using it.  have been for centuries.
 
2022-08-20 8:48:22 PM  

StatelyGreekAutomaton: Linux_Yes: Ivo Shandor: Marcus Aurelius: I doubt it's going to actually happen, but if it does, it should be highly entertaining.

I think it will happen, and that the transition itself will go smoothly. Something will break in an unexpected manner a few weeks/months down the road, but the merge will be a done deal.

Hey
Nothing wrong with dreaming......
[Fark user image image 236x234]

"But Lord I noticed that during the hardest times of my life, there was only one set of hands on my dick. I don't understand why, when I needed You the most, You would leave me."

He whispered, "My precious child, I love you and will never leave you. During those hard times, when you saw only one set of hands on your dick, I fapped for you."


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
Displayed 35 of 35 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.