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(Some Guy)   Because doing just the minimum required of you to get paid, instead of doing more, makes you a lazy bad person. Capitalism up front shoulda told you   (wbfo.org) divider line
    More: Asinine, Employment, extra work, quiet quitting, Gen Z, common examples, Ed Zitron, better work conditions, latest workplace trend  
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914 clicks; posted to Business » on 19 Aug 2022 at 11:15 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-19 10:39:48 PM  
Already told the boss.
I do excellent work, I don't get excellent raises.
I can fark off and not get fired.
So you get a baseline of productivity until I get paid more.
Don't like it? Fire me.
My baseline exceeds your second best.
Want more? Pony the fark up.
 
2022-08-19 11:26:49 PM  
The Replacements - Bad Worker
Youtube g_wB5NZlTtk
 
2022-08-19 11:37:42 PM  
Recently had a minimum wage job, lasted about 4 days at it. I went in actually willing to work hard but after a couple days of seeing that the manager was incompetent and anything that needed to be done had to go through him (and indeed too many problems stemmed from him ignoring issues or neglecting to plan more than an hour ahead for anything) and meanwhile the best employee there was literally a homeless tent person, I could see good, hard work wasn't going to be rewarded in this place and my best contribution would be to quit and report everyone to corporate.
 
2022-08-19 11:39:12 PM  
An employee and their employer are adversaries. Not collaborators. The employers know this and act accordingly. If more employees acted that way, we would all be better off.
 
2022-08-20 12:04:28 AM  

Moose out front: An employee and their employer are adversaries. Not collaborators. The employers know this and act accordingly. If more employees acted that way, we would all be better off.


Drone strikes it is, then?
 
2022-08-20 12:04:58 AM  
Doing the bare minimum to get consistent raises and promotions? Not sacrificing your weekends to corporate servitude? Shiat, I've been doing that since like 2002. I was "quiet quitting" before it was cool.

Maybe the difference is kids these days aren't ambitious and don't understand the difference between doing the bare minimum not to get fired and the bare minimum to keep moving up.
 
2022-08-20 12:12:01 AM  
Depends on the job.

Farkers seem to all be IT guys with supreme skills who can fark off all day and do better in five minutes than anyone else can do in a week, and so on. Quiet quit? Why not? They walk into their employer's office and shiat on his desk and dare him to say something about it, too.

Then there are dead-end jobs (and/or brain-dead bosses) where extra effort is at best wasted and at worst raises minimum expectations.

In some other cases, quiet quitting makes sense so long as it's done with the expectation of quiet stagnation and quiet sidelining and quiet replacement, rather than bonuses and raises and advancement. I get the sense that TFA is mainly about these employees.
 
2022-08-20 12:41:20 AM  
The Romantic Ideal: Top employee, asked to do more without pay, 'quiet quits'.
The Reality: Shiat tier employee, asked to meet the minimum threshold, believes they are 'quiet quitting' when they're just requiring their team to pick up the slack while their employer seeks to avoid frivolous lawsuits upon at-will termination from entitled shiat tier employees looking for a quick payday
 
2022-08-20 12:58:16 AM  

Sobekneferu: Recently had a minimum wage job, lasted about 4 days at it. I went in actually willing to work hard but after a couple days of seeing that the manager was incompetent and anything that needed to be done had to go through him (and indeed too many problems stemmed from him ignoring issues or neglecting to plan more than an hour ahead for anything) and meanwhile the best employee there was literally a homeless tent person, I could see good, hard work wasn't going to be rewarded in this place and my best contribution would be to quit and report everyone to corporate.


As if corporate would do anything... I once worked for an online company that had a married manager sleeping with HR person and doing coke in his office.  You know what corporate did?  Then sent a lawyer out not to investigate but to find out who said something.  They weren't worried about the allegations they were worried someone would talk.
 
2022-08-20 1:11:41 AM  
Another thread where worthless people justify justify behind worthless. Enjoy being worthless.
 
2022-08-20 1:38:57 AM  

doomjesse: Sobekneferu: Recently had a minimum wage job, lasted about 4 days at it. I went in actually willing to work hard but after a couple days of seeing that the manager was incompetent and anything that needed to be done had to go through him (and indeed too many problems stemmed from him ignoring issues or neglecting to plan more than an hour ahead for anything) and meanwhile the best employee there was literally a homeless tent person, I could see good, hard work wasn't going to be rewarded in this place and my best contribution would be to quit and report everyone to corporate.

As if corporate would do anything... I once worked for an online company that had a married manager sleeping with HR person and doing coke in his office.  You know what corporate did?  Then sent a lawyer out not to investigate but to find out who said something.  They weren't worried about the allegations they were worried someone would talk.


Ever stop to notice that people accept their own anecdotal evidence as proof when it aligns with their bias, but rarely accept anecdotal evidence that counters their bias?

I can find shiatty things about a vast majority of my experiences in life, that doesn't mean I've had a shiatty life.
 
2022-08-20 2:25:40 AM  

SafetyThird: Another thread where worthless people justify justify behind worthless. Enjoy being worthless.


Seriously. What sort of worthless person gives away extra labor without proper compensation? Like, how low does your self esteem have to be for that to sound like a virtue?
 
2022-08-20 2:32:38 AM  

Sobekneferu: Recently had a minimum wage job, lasted about 4 days at it. I went in actually willing to work hard but after a couple days of seeing that the manager was incompetent and anything that needed to be done had to go through him (and indeed too many problems stemmed from him ignoring issues or neglecting to plan more than an hour ahead for anything) and meanwhile the best employee there was literally a homeless tent person, I could see good, hard work wasn't going to be rewarded in this place and my best contribution would be to quit and report everyone to corporate.


Dude. They know. They quite literally created that environment.
 
2022-08-20 2:46:40 AM  
Shaggy_C:
Maybe the difference is kids these days aren't ambitious and don't understand the difference between doing the bare minimum not to get fired and the bare minimum to keep moving up.

Yeah that's my read. The line about "doing exactly what they were told" highlights it; anyone who has to be told every farking thing that they should be doing is *at best* a minimally acceptable employee, and a work-to-rule white-collar employee is begging to be replaced.
 
2022-08-20 3:37:38 AM  

DeathByGeekSquad: The Romantic Ideal: Top employee, asked to do more without pay, 'quiet quits'.
The Reality: Shiat tier employee, asked to meet the minimum threshold, believes they are 'quiet quitting' when they're just requiring their team to pick up the slack while their employer seeks to avoid frivolous lawsuits upon at-will termination from entitled shiat tier employees looking for a quick payday


"Most Millennials, Gen Y, Gen Z"
I EXPECT and believe I DESERVE 100K+ a year as a starting salary, and will be, as is my RIGHT, a VP or above in under 2 years since My mother told me I'm the"greatest".
WHAT? I actually have to WORK??????
"I quit" This job doesn't let me take any time off I want to, I can't show up any time I want to, and the cafeteria doesn't have avocado toast for FREE?, and my boss actually requires me to do something besides post on Tik Tok!
"PLEASE HELP ME" My barista or Waiter job doesn't pay 55$ Per hour.

fark YOU ALL!
 
2022-08-20 4:16:30 AM  

Gilligan13: DeathByGeekSquad: The Romantic Ideal: Top employee, asked to do more without pay, 'quiet quits'.
The Reality: Shiat tier employee, asked to meet the minimum threshold, believes they are 'quiet quitting' when they're just requiring their team to pick up the slack while their employer seeks to avoid frivolous lawsuits upon at-will termination from entitled shiat tier employees looking for a quick payday

"Most Millennials, Gen Y, Gen Z"
I EXPECT and believe I DESERVE 100K+ a year as a starting salary, and will be, as is my RIGHT, a VP or above in under 2 years since My mother told me I'm the"greatest".
WHAT? I actually have to WORK??????
"I quit" This job doesn't let me take any time off I want to, I can't show up any time I want to, and the cafeteria doesn't have avocado toast for FREE?, and my boss actually requires me to do something besides post on Tik Tok!
"PLEASE HELP ME" My barista or Waiter job doesn't pay 55$ Per hour.

fark YOU ALL!


Show me two people you know that can be described like this or STFU.
 
2022-08-20 4:17:34 AM  

Jensaarai: SafetyThird: Another thread where worthless people justify justify behind worthless. Enjoy being worthless.

Seriously. What sort of worthless person gives away extra labor without proper compensation? Like, how low does your self esteem have to be for that to sound like a virtue?


Bosses have been pushing their employees to do exactly that for as long as I can remember. I've no doubt it's a story as old as capitalism itself. They have people take on extra duties with no extra compensation, to take work home to do on their own time, to work before clocking in and after clocking out. It's all done with the dangling carrot of a vague suggestion that that will lead to a promotion or pay rise at some unspecified time in the future and the stick of threatening to get rid of whoever they think is least productive.

We have laws like at-will employment, unpaid internships and insufficient workers' rights based on the falsehood that employers and employees are equal when this isn't at all the case. Employees are simply replaced with a new worker, or their duties are given to their colleagues to fulfil with no extra pay or any other compensation. Meanwhile those who lose their job face bankruptcy, homelessness, starvation and for many in the United States, losing the health insurance that can make the difference between life and death.

The workers are exhausted, stressed, desperate and afraid. The bosses are rich and secure.

Christy Moore - Ordinary Man
Youtube L6ZUYU4tWUU
 
2022-08-20 4:21:33 AM  

DeathByGeekSquad: The Romantic Ideal: Top employee, asked to do more without pay, 'quiet quits'.
The Reality: Shiat tier employee, asked to meet the minimum threshold, believes they are 'quiet quitting' when they're just requiring their team to pick up the slack while their employer seeks to avoid frivolous lawsuits upon at-will termination from entitled shiat tier employees looking for a quick payday


Then fire the shiat tier employee after getting the required documentation in place. That is literally part of the job of a manager.
 
2022-08-20 4:38:53 AM  
All I ask is that if I'm to go "above and beyond" as anymore than a one-time thing that made my life easier or was simply basic human decency, I should get payed "above and beyond" whatever I'm currently making.
 
2022-08-20 5:22:09 AM  
I'll go above and beyond if I'm angling for a promotion or raise, otherwise GRFOH with that shiat.
 
2022-08-20 5:41:35 AM  
Employers expect loyalty and hard work, but don't want to reciprocate the loyalty or reward the effort. I hope more people realize they owe their company exactly what's stipulated in the contract and nothing more unless there's a clear path upward. And it has to be clear. There's nothing worse than getting jerked around by an employer.
 
2022-08-20 7:04:06 AM  
Yeah, this whole "quiet quitting" thing is nothing new.  There have always been and always will be people who do exactly enough work to not get fired.  Well run companies handle this with merit based raises, internal promotions and performance based bonuses.

Granted, a lot of companies fark those things up and base promotions and raises on who some manager likes rather than what kind of work they do.  But again, this isn't any sort of modern trend.
 
2022-08-20 8:09:08 AM  
I thought employees quiet quitting during the workday was Drew's business model.
 
2022-08-20 8:09:37 AM  

Gordon Bennett: Jensaarai: SafetyThird: Another thread where worthless people justify justify behind worthless. Enjoy being worthless.

Seriously. What sort of worthless person gives away extra labor without proper compensation? Like, how low does your self esteem have to be for that to sound like a virtue?

Bosses have been pushing their employees to do exactly that for as long as I can remember. I've no doubt it's a story as old as capitalism itself. They have people take on extra duties with no extra compensation, to take work home to do on their own time, to work before clocking in and after clocking out. It's all done with the dangling carrot of a vague suggestion that that will lead to a promotion or pay rise at some unspecified time in the future and the stick of threatening to get rid of whoever they think is least productive.

We have laws like at-will employment, unpaid internships and insufficient workers' rights based on the falsehood that employers and employees are equal when this isn't at all the case. Employees are simply replaced with a new worker, or their duties are given to their colleagues to fulfil with no extra pay or any other compensation. Meanwhile those who lose their job face bankruptcy, homelessness, starvation and for many in the United States, losing the health insurance that can make the difference between life and death.

The workers are exhausted, stressed, desperate and afraid. The bosses are rich and secure.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/L6ZUYU4tWUU]


We are taught from an early age that hard work is the best way, the grasshopper and the ant
 
2022-08-20 8:35:27 AM  

Jensaarai: SafetyThird: Another thread where worthless people justify justify behind worthless. Enjoy being worthless.

Seriously. What sort of worthless person gives away extra labor without proper compensation? Like, how low does your self esteem have to be for that to sound like a virtue?


There were thousands of lawsuits (forced arbitration) against Chipotle for forcing employees to clean the restaurant off the clock.  Carls Jr. engaged in this practice as well.
For many Americans in the bottom 50%, maybe even 75% there are few job opportunities and congress stripped them of their rights to sue in civil court.  Instead they need to use the private court system where the cost of arbitration is always higher than the monetary amount claimed.  Arbitration courts are stacked in favor of employers.  A group of arbitration certified attorneys represent the chipotle employees pro bono and Chipotle is currently fighting in federal court against their own FA agreement to settle as a class action lawsuit (lol).
What's not to understand?  Fascism has a face and it looks a lot like your house and senate congress member.
Don't even get me started on civil asset forfeiture, the war on drugs yet allowing opioids to be sold everywhere legally, unforgivable student debt with arbitrary interest rates with punishing penalties for missing payments, broad support for white supremacist terrorism, and state governors banning free speech and enforcing laws entirely based on a narrow interpretation of the Bible.  Or the illegitimate Supreme Court where three of the nine should be impeached (Kavanaugh, Thomas, and Barrett).
 
2022-08-20 8:42:18 AM  
If I don't leave room for improvement, how can I improve?
 
2022-08-20 8:59:32 AM  
Get back to work ya meatbags!
 
2022-08-20 9:13:47 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Shaggy_C:
Maybe the difference is kids these days aren't ambitious and don't understand the difference between doing the bare minimum not to get fired and the bare minimum to keep moving up.

Yeah that's my read. The line about "doing exactly what they were told" highlights it; anyone who has to be told every farking thing that they should be doing is *at best* a minimally acceptable employee, and a work-to-rule white-collar employee is begging to be replaced.


In in the process of doing so. I never ask for more than 8 hours, but for the love of God read the instructions and don't do stupid shiat because 'you didn't say not to' mother farkers I didn't tell you not to eat your own shiat either. I shouldn't have to.
 
2022-08-20 9:30:15 AM  
Peter Kills Interview with Bobs - Office Space (1999) Movie Clip HD
Youtube j_1lIFRdnhA
 
2022-08-20 10:17:11 AM  
Every older generation since they started making them has claimed that the 'younger generation' is unprepared for reality and screwing everything up. Both these tenets are true.

Right now we have younger people showing up to work with no clue wtf the world is like. This was true twenty years ago when I showed up to work.

Experience is a markerfarker. Young folks get it by default. Older folks shrug it off and keep going, thinking they've been through it already and don't need it. The world is better for it every generation, and NO, the world wasn't better when you were younger. It was just different.
 
2022-08-20 10:24:52 AM  
64.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-20 10:32:59 AM  
In management 302 I learned about the EVLN Model. When employees hate their job they either
Exit: quit
Voice: speak up about their concerns
Loyalty: work harder to try to make it better
Neglect: not do their best work
I guess we're calling that quiet quitting now?
I mean this behaviour model has been around for decades and the behaviour it describes, pretty sure it's been around since humans worked in groups.
 
2022-08-20 10:43:36 AM  

talkyournonsense: In management 302 I learned about the EVLN Model. When employees hate their job they either
Exit: quit
Voice: speak up about their concerns
Loyalty: work harder to try to make it better
Neglect: not do their best work
I guess we're calling that quiet quitting now?
I mean this behaviour model has been around for decades and the behaviour it describes, pretty sure it's been around since humans worked in groups.


Only working 40 hours a week on a 40 hour contract isn't neglecting your work. That's doing the job you're hired for. If you regularly have to spend extra hours because there is more work than can be done by employees in the regular working hours, the employer needs to fix that. That isn't on the employee.
 
2022-08-20 10:45:51 AM  
I had 3 people start on my team early in the pandemic.   All at roughly the same starting salary (+- 2k).   One of them is cruising along, nothing special.  He's about 10% over his starting salary at this point.  Another was also about 10% over his start but his way to his first promotion this year which would have been a 10-15% raise.  He was really stepping it up.  He left in June to do something completely different (sales), hope he does well.  The third has been outstanding, she works her rear off and has assumed responsibility for the team in general.  She's up 28% in two years, on her way to another promo and probably another 15%.   Unlimited upside potential.

So yall just keep putting the cart before the horse and you can quiet quit any career path you'd like.
 
2022-08-20 10:50:03 AM  

Warrior Kermit: We are taught from an early age that hard work is the best way, the grasshopper and the ant


The ant and the grasshopper isn't so much about hard work, but the dangers of being a layabout. The ant was prepped for winter, but nothing in the story says the ant worked excessive hours to do so, or that work was all the ant did.

If the grasshopper sang and danced, but also made sure to be ready for winter, there would have been no fable because there would have been nothing to teach.
 
2022-08-20 11:46:34 AM  

Marshmallow Jones: I had 3 people start on my team early in the pandemic.   All at roughly the same starting salary (+- 2k).   One of them is cruising along, nothing special.  He's about 10% over his starting salary at this point.  Another was also about 10% over his start but his way to his first promotion this year which would have been a 10-15% raise.  He was really stepping it up.  He left in June to do something completely different (sales), hope he does well.  The third has been outstanding, she works her rear off and has assumed responsibility for the team in general.  She's up 28% in two years, on her way to another promo and probably another 15%.   Unlimited upside potential.

So yall just keep putting the cart before the horse and you can quiet quit any career path you'd like.


Are the people "stepping it up" and "working her rear off" working extra hours, or just doing a very good job within regular working hours?

Because if I'm salaried, and work an hour overtime every day, then that 28% raise is merely my employer paying me for the work I do, not me being rewarded for my work.
 
2022-08-20 1:38:02 PM  

Sobekneferu: Recently had a minimum wage job, lasted about 4 days at it. I went in actually willing to work hard but after a couple days of seeing that the manager was incompetent and anything that needed to be done had to go through him (and indeed too many problems stemmed from him ignoring issues or neglecting to plan more than an hour ahead for anything) and meanwhile the best employee there was literally a homeless tent person, I could see good, hard work wasn't going to be rewarded in this place and my best contribution would be to quit and report everyone to corporate.


....And now the homeless guy is out of a job. Smooth.
 
2022-08-20 1:43:26 PM  
The older I get, the more I think people are full of it and just like to complain about their job.

I've never, ever, not even once met anyone who believed they were less than 'above average' at their job. Even when direct evidence to the contrary exists.

All of my high school friends who ended up successful in their careers have been the ones who consistently worked above their pay grade. And yes, that didn't always immediately benefit them, they didn't immediately get a raise and a promotion, and yeah, they had a boss that was a dick.

And my friends who bragged about how little they do and how they barely work and blah blah blah... They get an immediate reward, right? They duck out early or they show up high and whatever. It's fun. But after 5, 10, 15 years...each time there was an opportunity nobody would consider them. Because they always had a better candidate. Because those people just did the minimum.

I'm lazy. I want the immediate payout. And I'll probably never rise any higher than I already am. I'm probably even due to fall a bit. But I'm also not angry about it. No, I didn't get promoted... Why would anyone promote me?! No, I didn't get a big raise... because I'm lazy.

And while I tell myself that, if I got a big raise or a big promotion, I would rise above to that level...but that's just not how human performance works. You can be a talented athlete, but you can't spend five years not trying hard and then just turn it back on. You will be years behind the level of ability you could have achieved by training hard.
 
2022-08-20 1:50:34 PM  
Hey did anyone submit today's quiet quitting thread? They seem to be every day now.
 
2022-08-20 1:55:12 PM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Depends on the job.

Farkers seem to all be IT guys with supreme skills who can fark off all day and do better in five minutes than anyone else can do in a week, and so on. Quiet quit? Why not? They walk into their employer's office and shiat on his desk and dare him to say something about it, too.

Then there are dead-end jobs (and/or brain-dead bosses) where extra effort is at best wasted and at worst raises minimum expectations.

In some other cases, quiet quitting makes sense so long as it's done with the expectation of quiet stagnation and quiet sidelining and quiet replacement, rather than bonuses and raises and advancement. I get the sense that TFA is mainly about these employees.


No one should be expected to do more than they're being paid for. That's literally the definition of wage theft.
 
2022-08-20 1:55:38 PM  

DerAppie: DeathByGeekSquad: The Romantic Ideal: Top employee, asked to do more without pay, 'quiet quits'.
The Reality: Shiat tier employee, asked to meet the minimum threshold, believes they are 'quiet quitting' when they're just requiring their team to pick up the slack while their employer seeks to avoid frivolous lawsuits upon at-will termination from entitled shiat tier employees looking for a quick payday

Then fire the shiat tier employee after getting the required documentation in place. That is literally part of the job of a manager.


Yes.  After the PIP, which reinforces awareness and attempts to softly course correct the employee's performance, in avoidance of manifested protected class claims arising after termination because law firms will work on contingency and the ultimate parting "FU" is making the people who fire you expend time, energy, and financial resources to show the judicial process that you have all the documentation indicating you did nothing wrong.

And if you work in a reputation based industry, which is small, you get the black mark of such public action over your head, regardless of fault.

And now in California, you can't even settle with confidentiality to prevent those frivolous claims from impacting the business.

/the above actually DOES happen
//more than most folks are aware of
 
2022-08-20 1:57:28 PM  

Warrior Kermit: Gordon Bennett: Jensaarai: SafetyThird: Another thread where worthless people justify justify behind worthless. Enjoy being worthless.

Seriously. What sort of worthless person gives away extra labor without proper compensation? Like, how low does your self esteem have to be for that to sound like a virtue?

Bosses have been pushing their employees to do exactly that for as long as I can remember. I've no doubt it's a story as old as capitalism itself. They have people take on extra duties with no extra compensation, to take work home to do on their own time, to work before clocking in and after clocking out. It's all done with the dangling carrot of a vague suggestion that that will lead to a promotion or pay rise at some unspecified time in the future and the stick of threatening to get rid of whoever they think is least productive.

We have laws like at-will employment, unpaid internships and insufficient workers' rights based on the falsehood that employers and employees are equal when this isn't at all the case. Employees are simply replaced with a new worker, or their duties are given to their colleagues to fulfil with no extra pay or any other compensation. Meanwhile those who lose their job face bankruptcy, homelessness, starvation and for many in the United States, losing the health insurance that can make the difference between life and death.

The workers are exhausted, stressed, desperate and afraid. The bosses are rich and secure.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/L6ZUYU4tWUU]

We are taught from an early age that hard work is the best way, the grasshopper and the ant


That fable isn't even about hard work--it's about doing the work necessary and being prepared.
 
2022-08-20 2:09:03 PM  
I hate these lazy assholes.  They always have some reason they don't do their share, and the other employees have to pick up the load.
 
2022-08-20 2:21:45 PM  

Likwit: Employers expect loyalty and hard work, but don't want to reciprocate the loyalty or reward the effort. I hope more people realize they owe their company exactly what's stipulated in the contract and nothing more unless there's a clear path upward. And it has to be clear. There's nothing worse than getting jerked around by an employer.


Broad, general statements like this do little but further an intentional divide by seeking to not recognize that there are in fact, good employers, and good employees, who make up healthy workplaces.

I expect all of our employees to fulfill their role and responsibility, while contributing towards a positive work atmosphere (read: culture, environment).  I expect them to pursue their client-facing tasks with energy, and for the benefit of the business.  In return, I compensate them above average for the position, provide extensive benefits for a small business, (401k, medical, dental, vision, life, misc), career training, and actively support them in achieving other life goals (have successfully assisted a number of employees in securing new homes, rentals, and acceptance into application/referenced-based programs).

Because we're a limited scaling business which conducts services for our clients, we regularly temperature check with our employees what they perceive their capacity is at.  When we initially had our growth stage, we conservatively added clients.  As our employees have happily stayed with us, we've increased our client load, and in turn, been able to expand the benefits and training we offer our employees, as well as increasing their compensation.

I come on Fark weekly, reading about how awful every single employer is, how none of us care for any of our employees, and how we should all burn to the ground.

I also put in more hours than our employees, to ensure that they have a safe, stable, comfortable working environment.  For a number of years, I took significantly less pay than our employees in order to make sure they were starting off at comfortable levels.

I am not accountable for the shiatstain employers you've had in the past, but that does not make every single employer evil, and forwarding a narrative that all employers are evil does little to resolve the actual issues at hand.
 
2022-08-20 4:54:20 PM  

DerAppie: talkyournonsense: In management 302 I learned about the EVLN Model. When employees hate their job they either
Exit: quit
Voice: speak up about their concerns
Loyalty: work harder to try to make it better
Neglect: not do their best work
I guess we're calling that quiet quitting now?
I mean this behaviour model has been around for decades and the behaviour it describes, pretty sure it's been around since humans worked in groups.

Only working 40 hours a week on a 40 hour contract isn't neglecting your work. That's doing the job you're hired for. If you regularly have to spend extra hours because there is more work than can be done by employees in the regular working hours, the employer needs to fix that. That isn't on the employee.


Well obviously this was from a capitalist management perspective which is that happy "good" workers should go above and beyond at all times for little or no recognition or reward. From that perspective working to rule would be "neglecting". That's why I mentioned the source.

My personal opinion is that doing more than you're paid to do is dumb. You don't owe your boss more than you're being compensated for. On that note the most insidious form of management is the "we're like a family". Never work for a company that says that. It's a nasty way to manipulate workers to increase productivity at the workers expense.
 
2022-08-20 5:02:23 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: The older I get, the more I think people are full of it and just like to complain about their job.

I've never, ever, not even once met anyone who believed they were less than 'above average' at their job. Even when direct evidence to the contrary exists.

All of my high school friends who ended up successful in their careers have been the ones who consistently worked above their pay grade. And yes, that didn't always immediately benefit them, they didn't immediately get a raise and a promotion, and yeah, they had a boss that was a dick.

And my friends who bragged about how little they do and how they barely work and blah blah blah... They get an immediate reward, right? They duck out early or they show up high and whatever. It's fun. But after 5, 10, 15 years...each time there was an opportunity nobody would consider them. Because they always had a better candidate. Because those people just did the minimum.

I'm lazy. I want the immediate payout. And I'll probably never rise any higher than I already am. I'm probably even due to fall a bit. But I'm also not angry about it. No, I didn't get promoted... Why would anyone promote me?! No, I didn't get a big raise... because I'm lazy.

And while I tell myself that, if I got a big raise or a big promotion, I would rise above to that level...but that's just not how human performance works. You can be a talented athlete, but you can't spend five years not trying hard and then just turn it back on. You will be years behind the level of ability you could have achieved by training hard.


I am above average at my job. I know this because every supervisor has told me this, and they use my work as the metric on which they judge other workers and for training purposes. That's facts. It's like this at nearly every job I work. This is how I learned not to do my best. Because my don't give a fark is still at least 10x better than the next worker and we all get paid the same. So why the fark would I go above and beyond to make the same money as these fark ups?
 
2022-08-20 5:14:25 PM  

talkyournonsense: Fark_Guy_Rob: The older I get, the more I think people are full of it and just like to complain about their job.

I've never, ever, not even once met anyone who believed they were less than 'above average' at their job. Even when direct evidence to the contrary exists.

All of my high school friends who ended up successful in their careers have been the ones who consistently worked above their pay grade. And yes, that didn't always immediately benefit them, they didn't immediately get a raise and a promotion, and yeah, they had a boss that was a dick.

And my friends who bragged about how little they do and how they barely work and blah blah blah... They get an immediate reward, right? They duck out early or they show up high and whatever. It's fun. But after 5, 10, 15 years...each time there was an opportunity nobody would consider them. Because they always had a better candidate. Because those people just did the minimum.

I'm lazy. I want the immediate payout. And I'll probably never rise any higher than I already am. I'm probably even due to fall a bit. But I'm also not angry about it. No, I didn't get promoted... Why would anyone promote me?! No, I didn't get a big raise... because I'm lazy.

And while I tell myself that, if I got a big raise or a big promotion, I would rise above to that level...but that's just not how human performance works. You can be a talented athlete, but you can't spend five years not trying hard and then just turn it back on. You will be years behind the level of ability you could have achieved by training hard.

I am above average at my job. I know this because every supervisor has told me this, and they use my work as the metric on which they judge other workers and for training purposes. That's facts. It's like this at nearly every job I work. This is how I learned not to do my best. Because my don't give a fark is still at least 10x better than the next worker and we all get paid the same. So why the fark would I go above and beyond to make the same money as these fark ups?


I don't know you, and I don't know what you do. Maybe you really do 10x as much as the next worker.

I find that exceptionally hard to believe...but whether or not it is true for you, it's not true for virtually everyone else. That's a mathematical truth when dealing with average.

But my position isn't that you have a moral duty to try your hardest. It's that people who do the minimum won't get/shouldn't expect to get big raises or promotions, because they will go to people who outperform them.
 
2022-08-20 5:37:46 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: talkyournonsense: Fark_Guy_Rob: The older I get, the more I think people are full of it and just like to complain about their job.

I've never, ever, not even once met anyone who believed they were less than 'above average' at their job. Even when direct evidence to the contrary exists.

All of my high school friends who ended up successful in their careers have been the ones who consistently worked above their pay grade. And yes, that didn't always immediately benefit them, they didn't immediately get a raise and a promotion, and yeah, they had a boss that was a dick.

And my friends who bragged about how little they do and how they barely work and blah blah blah... They get an immediate reward, right? They duck out early or they show up high and whatever. It's fun. But after 5, 10, 15 years...each time there was an opportunity nobody would consider them. Because they always had a better candidate. Because those people just did the minimum.

I'm lazy. I want the immediate payout. And I'll probably never rise any higher than I already am. I'm probably even due to fall a bit. But I'm also not angry about it. No, I didn't get promoted... Why would anyone promote me?! No, I didn't get a big raise... because I'm lazy.

And while I tell myself that, if I got a big raise or a big promotion, I would rise above to that level...but that's just not how human performance works. You can be a talented athlete, but you can't spend five years not trying hard and then just turn it back on. You will be years behind the level of ability you could have achieved by training hard.

I am above average at my job. I know this because every supervisor has told me this, and they use my work as the metric on which they judge other workers and for training purposes. That's facts. It's like this at nearly every job I work. This is how I learned not to do my best. Because my don't give a fark is still at least 10x better than the next worker and we all get paid the same. So why the fark would I go above and beyond to make the same money as these fark ups?

I don't know you, and I don't know what you do. Maybe you really do 10x as much as the next worker.

I find that exceptionally hard to believe...but whether or not it is true for you, it's not true for virtually everyone else. That's a mathematical truth when dealing with average.

But my position isn't that you have a moral duty to try your hardest. It's that people who do the minimum won't get/shouldn't expect to get big raises or promotions, because they will go to people who outperform them.


I've never seen performance based promotions or raises. It's all nepotism. The closest I ever came to performance based pay was when I was serving and I made bank because I was damn good at my job and got large sections so they could save on labor costs.
Where I live, managers promote the shiattiest workers because they don't want anyone who might be a threat to their position or they hire their friends. Now I work union and most of my coworkers are so bad at their jobs we lost our largest client that made up over half our business. Luckily I work another department. I have zero chance of promotion and my wage is locked to time served. There's zero incentive here.
 
2022-08-20 7:51:05 PM  

Marshmallow Jones: she works her rear off and has assumed responsibility for the team in general.


So in other words, she's doing your job. You're her manager, you're responsible for the team. Sounds like they should shiatcan you and give her your job.
 
2022-08-20 8:41:54 PM  

austerity101: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Depends on the job.

Farkers seem to all be IT guys with supreme skills who can fark off all day and do better in five minutes than anyone else can do in a week, and so on. Quiet quit? Why not? They walk into their employer's office and shiat on his desk and dare him to say something about it, too.

Then there are dead-end jobs (and/or brain-dead bosses) where extra effort is at best wasted and at worst raises minimum expectations.

In some other cases, quiet quitting makes sense so long as it's done with the expectation of quiet stagnation and quiet sidelining and quiet replacement, rather than bonuses and raises and advancement. I get the sense that TFA is mainly about these employees.

No one should be expected to do more than they're being paid for. That's literally the definition of wage theft.


You are being paid for your best effort. You can imagine that it is somehow "theft" for your employer to expect that effort just because you won't necessarily get fired for doing less, but that is transparent rationalization.

(Of course, I'm talking about taking initiative and getting shiat done and improving your skills and so on. Asking employees to do things unrelated to their positions, or violating agreed limits, is an entirely different kind of flying altogether.)
 
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