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(Detroit Free Press)   Michigan judge issues indefinite ban on criminalizing abortions in Michigan counties. "...the court finds (the abortion law) is chilling and dangerous to our state's population of childbearing people and the medical professionals who care for them"   (freep.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Abortion, Michigan, Roe v. Wade, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, Lansing, Michigan, state's largest counties, Michigan judge, findings of most experts  
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1132 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Aug 2022 at 10:13 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-19 9:50:10 PM  
media1.giphy.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 10:15:03 PM  
Big win for Big Gretch.
 
2022-08-19 10:24:37 PM  
Childbearing people.

Republicans sure hate childbearing people, whatever genitals they might happen to have.
 
2022-08-19 10:27:50 PM  

shastacola: Big win for Big Gretch.


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2022-08-19 10:28:32 PM  

shastacola: Big win for Big Gretch.


I should add Dana Nessel too. She's been awesome. The women running Michigan right now are a righteous force.
 
2022-08-19 10:29:06 PM  

Exile On Beale Street: shastacola: Big win for Big Gretch.

[Fark user image image 346x750]


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2022-08-19 10:33:01 PM  

shastacola: shastacola: Big win for Big Gretch.

I should add Dana Nessel too. She's been awesome. The women running Michigan right now are a righteous force.


Damn straight. Betting money says Whitmer wins easy.

/ Respect from the 248/313 border.
 
2022-08-19 10:33:38 PM  

Be polite walk on the right: Exile On Beale Street: shastacola: Big win for Big Gretch.

[Fark user image image 346x750]

[ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com image 850x478]


Is that some type of Star Trek cosplay?
 
2022-08-19 10:35:42 PM  

Sword and Shield: shastacola: shastacola: Big win for Big Gretch.

I should add Dana Nessel too. She's been awesome. The women running Michigan right now are a righteous force.

Damn straight. Betting money says Whitmer wins easy.

/ Respect from the 248/313 border.


Wins, yes. Easy, no. This state gets really, really stupid outside the population centers and university towns. Plus the Devos money behind Tudor.

/Tudor is a stupid name
 
2022-08-19 10:37:16 PM  
"Childbearing people"

As a queer AFAB whose uterus was uninstalled, I appreciate this inclusive language.
 
2022-08-19 10:37:37 PM  
Hey Americans
Can you explain this to me?
In Canada under the charter of rights and freedoms we have
"Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice."
Abortion rights are secured by this as "security of person."
Why aren't abortion rights protected under the 4th
The right of the people to be secure in their persons,
Or 14th amendment?
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws ....
Or 19th
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

Like, y'all have it in your bill of rights! The only answer I can think of is that women aren't considered citizens.

Please explain, I don't understand how your courts interpret these any other way.
 
2022-08-19 10:40:22 PM  

talkyournonsense: Hey Americans
Can you explain this to me?
In Canada under the charter of rights and freedoms we have
"Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice."
Abortion rights are secured by this as "security of person."
Why aren't abortion rights protected under the 4th
The right of the people to be secure in their persons,
Or 14th amendment?
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws ....
Or 19th
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

Like, y'all have it in your bill of rights! The only answer I can think of is that women aren't considered citizens.

Please explain, I don't understand how your courts interpret these any other way.


The Bill of Rights makes more sense if you ignore everything after the 10th and add "Offer only valid for land-owning white men."
 
2022-08-19 10:41:48 PM  
It's right there in what you have bolded...

"deprive any person of life"

To the antiabortion crowd, the abortion itself is depriving a person of life.

/I am pro-death
//pro-abortion and
///pro-death penalty
 
2022-08-19 10:42:06 PM  

blackminded: Sword and Shield: shastacola: shastacola: Big win for Big Gretch.

I should add Dana Nessel too. She's been awesome. The women running Michigan right now are a righteous force.

Damn straight. Betting money says Whitmer wins easy.

/ Respect from the 248/313 border.

Wins, yes. Easy, no. This state gets really, really stupid outside the population centers and university towns. Plus the Devos money behind Tudor.

/Tudor is a stupid name


I think Gretch wins big too. I've been to  couple of the Roe marches near me and I think there's an energy out there that is electric, especially with women way younger than me. Abortion is on the ballot here this year, they needed 400,000 signatures to get it on the ballot and they got 800,000. Women are going to win this, at least in Michigan.
 
2022-08-19 10:45:07 PM  
If you're feeling trapped in a red state, come to Michigan. Affordable housing, culture, nature, water (hey, Arizona!). We'll even accept you if you're from Ohio. We're close to making the mittens more blue and we're the superior peninsula state (screw you, Florida!)
 
2022-08-19 10:45:13 PM  

suebhoney: To the antiabortion crowd, the abortion itself is depriving a person of life.


I'd go so far as "potential" persons, but that collection of cells or even undeveloped organs is in no way thinking about how it's looking forward to life.
 
2022-08-19 10:49:58 PM  

talkyournonsense: Hey Americans
Can you explain this to me?
In Canada under the charter of rights and freedoms we have
"Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice."
Abortion rights are secured by this as "security of person."
Why aren't abortion rights protected under the 4th
The right of the people to be secure in their persons,
Or 14th amendment?
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws ....
Or 19th
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

Like, y'all have it in your bill of rights! The only answer I can think of is that women aren't considered citizens.

Please explain, I don't understand how your courts interpret these any other way.


In short, it really just comes down to how the Constitution is interpreted. What's obvious to either you or I, can be extremely convoluted in a court of law, and this is by design. People get paid to find work-arounds regarding existing established law, and it isn't just lawyers. Judges have also interpreted the Constitution in different ways, and it's gotten so out of hand that the Supreme Court just says whatever they feel like saying and it's legally binding because nobody is allowed to tell them otherwise.

This gets even more complicated when you have the concept of 'originalism' which allows a judge to interpret Constitution as it was written during the time it was written. To normal folk, this might seem absurd because nobody can know what a bunch of rich, land-owning white guys in late 1700's really meant. Even if they could somehow use clairvoyance to read the minds of long-dead people, even those long-dead people have said that the Constitution should be replaced entirely every so often to keep it relevant for the modern age, which means they have said it's perfectly fine to invalidate whatever they wrote at the time, and desired future leaders of the country to do exactly that.

But somewhere along the line we just stopped caring about taking federal documents at face value, and started making up new rules out of thin air, and justifying them however we felt like because nobody is going to stop us.
 
2022-08-19 10:50:16 PM  

Exile On Beale Street: shastacola: Big win for Big Gretch.

[Fark user image 346x750]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 10:50:23 PM  

Summoner101: Be polite walk on the right: Exile On Beale Street: shastacola: Big win for Big Gretch.

[Fark user image image 346x750]

[ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com image 850x478]

Is that some type of Star Trek cosplay?


I believe it's from a cameo she maed in the final season of DS9
 
2022-08-19 10:53:09 PM  

Ringshadow: AFAB


All Farkers Are Bastards?

/legitimately have never seen that acronym before
 
2022-08-19 10:53:14 PM  

shastacola: shastacola: Big win for Big Gretch.

I should add Dana Nessel too. She's been awesome. The women running Michigan right now are a righteous force.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 10:57:08 PM  

Ringshadow: "Childbearing people"

As a queer AFAB whose uterus was uninstalled, I appreciate this inclusive language.


AFAB?

/brain goes to military jargon which is probably not where you were going
 
2022-08-19 10:58:31 PM  

killershark: If you're feeling trapped in a red state, come to Michigan. Affordable housing, culture, nature, water (hey, Arizona!). We'll even accept you if you're from Ohio. We're close to making the mittens more blue and we're the superior peninsula state (screw you, Florida!)


Michigan is technically TWO peninsulas.  That's a double P, which gets all sorts of interesting hits on Google.
 
2022-08-19 10:58:53 PM  
I've never liked the name "Jacob."  I may have to reassess.
 
2022-08-19 10:59:08 PM  

Roastbeast Sammich: Republicans sure hate childbearing people, whatever genitals they might happen to have.


But they really like kids.
 
2022-08-19 11:04:45 PM  

Deathbymeteor: All Farkers Are Bastards?

/legitimately have never seen that acronym before


Mister Peejay: AFAB?

/brain goes to military jargon which is probably not where you were going


Assigned Female At Birth.

I'm nonbinary so I don't claim woman anymore, and sterile besides.

AMAB is Assigned Male At Birth.
 
2022-08-19 11:09:34 PM  

whatshisname: suebhoney: To the antiabortion crowd, the abortion itself is depriving a person of life.

I'd go so far as "potential" persons, but that collection of cells or even undeveloped organs is in no way thinking about how it's looking forward to life.


I don't believe it's even that. As a woman, even though I loved being pregnant, love my son more than my own life, I still view pregnancy as a parasite. Until I could feel it move, and punch and kick, it (I say it because we did not wish to know the gender until he was birthed) was just a clump of cells living off of my body's system.

I love kids. I love my son. I love my grandson. But my husband and I both agreed that if ever I was in a position where the decision had to be made of saving me or saving the fetus, saving me came first. I made sure my midwives and my ob/gyn were aware of our wishes.
 
2022-08-19 11:13:19 PM  
media.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 11:15:40 PM  

Ringshadow: Deathbymeteor: All Farkers Are Bastards?

/legitimately have never seen that acronym before

Mister Peejay: AFAB?

/brain goes to military jargon which is probably not where you were going

Assigned Female At Birth.

I'm nonbinary so I don't claim woman anymore, and sterile besides.

AMAB is Assigned Male At Birth.


Ahh, well now I know.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 11:32:24 PM  

Mister Peejay: Ringshadow: "Childbearing people"

As a queer AFAB whose uterus was uninstalled, I appreciate this inclusive language.

AFAB?

/brain goes to military jargon which is probably not where you were going


Assigned female at birth.

AMAB = assigned male at birth
 
2022-08-19 11:38:20 PM  
Sounds like a judge for the people!
 
2022-08-19 11:42:39 PM  
"The harm to the body of women and people capable of pregnancy in not issuing the injunction could not be more real, clear, present and dangerous to the court."

I know it's being discussed here already, but I love that this judge specifically worded this sentence this way. It's gonna drive the Nazis and TERFs insane.

/but I repeat myself
 
2022-08-19 11:46:29 PM  

Mister Peejay: Ringshadow: "Childbearing people"

As a queer AFAB whose uterus was uninstalled, I appreciate this inclusive language.

AFAB?

/brain goes to military jargon which is probably not where you were going


Assigned female at birth
 
2022-08-19 11:47:25 PM  
I'm so relieved. This state hasn't completely been overwhelmed by the crazy yet, we still have a chance to save ourselves.

I read some of the coverage from the hearing yesterday and hooboy is the crazy definitely out there, though. We certainly can't relax yet.
 
2022-08-19 11:47:56 PM  
Thank you to all who answered my query.
 
2022-08-19 11:48:49 PM  

blackminded: Sword and Shield: shastacola: shastacola: Big win for Big Gretch.

I should add Dana Nessel too. She's been awesome. The women running Michigan right now are a righteous force.

Damn straight. Betting money says Whitmer wins easy.

/ Respect from the 248/313 border.

Wins, yes. Easy, no. This state gets really, really stupid outside the population centers and university towns. Plus the Devos money behind Tudor.

/Tudor is a stupid name


Aren't the Tudors most famous for beheading all who opposed or even mildly inconvenienced them?  Certainly an aspirational name, but not surprising.  Bill Shakespeare even immortalized this with the phrase "off with his head".

/not just Hank 8.  And he beheaded way more than just his wives
//and why do you think they call her "bloody Mary"?
///Beth I certainly shorted a few.  Notables include the too tall/too pretty Mary Queen of Scots (Beth insisted that her own height was perfect) and eventually turning on Sir Walter Raleigh.  Sir Francis Drake escaped to fight the Spanish in central America and still got killed there.
 
2022-08-20 12:00:00 AM  

yet_another_wumpus: Aren't the Tudors most famous for beheading all who opposed or even mildly inconvenienced them?  Certainly an aspirational name, but not surprising.  Bill Shakespeare even immortalized this with the phrase "off with his head".

/not just Hank 8.  And he beheaded way more than just his wives
//and why do you think they call her "bloody Mary"?
///Beth I certainly shorted a few.  Notables include the too tall/too pretty Mary Queen of Scots (Beth insisted that her own height was perfect) and eventually turning on Sir Walter Raleigh.  Sir Francis Drake escaped to fight the Spanish in central America and still got killed there.


So, fun fact: on the Southwark end of London Bridge (which was the only way across the Thames to London for centuries) they used to have a huge gate which would be closed every night. Hanging above that gate were pikes with the severed heads of traitors to the crown. These were there until 1660, well over a hundred years after Henry VIII.

pbs.twimg.comView Full Size


The English were some brutal motherfarkers, on par with the worst that the Aztecs or Mongols ever did. It was only with the Glorious Revolution that they became all stuffy, taking pride in being "civilised" and suchlike.
 
2022-08-20 12:01:03 AM  

blackminded: This state gets really, really stupid outside the population centers and university towns.


You pretty much described 47 or 48 of the fifty states. As someone preparing for retirement and wanting to get out of the city after 50 years, I realize that my choices boil down to (a) move to a college town, or (b) resign myself to living in mutual hatred with my neighbors.
 
2022-08-20 12:37:38 AM  

Peki: Mister Peejay: Ringshadow: "Childbearing people"

As a queer AFAB whose uterus was uninstalled, I appreciate this inclusive language.

AFAB?

/brain goes to military jargon which is probably not where you were going

Assigned female at birth.

AMAB = assigned male at birth


And then there is Drew: ABAB - Assigned Beer At Birth
 
2022-08-20 12:45:04 AM  
I fully appreciate and approve of the court system trying to be precise with its language because shiat would go even further to hell super fast if the law ever stops doing that, but goddamn is it annoying that we're in this this weird intermediate linguistic state where we sort of separate sex from gender/gender identity sometimes, but also sort of don't and sometimes phrase things in ways that unite the two.

// Whoever made "they/them" the official singular genderless pronoun after two decades of stupid shiat like "xe" deserves a medal.  We still do the presidential medal of freedom, right?
 
2022-08-20 12:47:35 AM  

Jim_Callahan: I fully appreciate and approve of the court system trying to be precise with its language because shiat would go even further to hell super fast if the law ever stops doing that, but goddamn is it annoying that we're in this this weird intermediate linguistic state where we sort of separate sex from gender/gender identity sometimes, but also sort of don't and sometimes phrase things in ways that unite the two.

// Whoever made "they/them" the official singular genderless pronoun after two decades of stupid shiat like "xe" deserves a medal.  We still do the presidential medal of freedom, right?


Xe/xie are still valid pronouns and still used. I've also seen fae/faer.

Not for me to judge, just for me to use respectfully.
 
2022-08-20 1:45:46 AM  

DarkSoulNoHope: Peki: Mister Peejay: Ringshadow: "Childbearing people"

As a queer AFAB whose uterus was uninstalled, I appreciate this inclusive language.

AFAB?

/brain goes to military jargon which is probably not where you were going

Assigned female at birth.

AMAB = assigned male at birth

And then there is Drew: ABAB - Assigned Beer At Birth


Why do they call it 'assigned'? You had a female physiology well before you were born so it's not as if whoever filled out your birth certificate made the decision. They were just recording what type of genitals you had, right?

Just asking, not trying to stir the pot.
 
2022-08-20 1:51:03 AM  

Senseless_drivel: it's not as if whoever filled out your birth certificate made the decision.


Actually that's exactly what happened. A doctor looked between your legs when you were a baby, and if your genitals conformed to what was expected for a boy or for a girl, assigned you that designation on your birth certificate, with zero possibility of input from you. If you were born intersex, this is very problematic, since doctors often arbitrarily assign sex based on their best guess, and will even perform surgeries in an attempt to make the genitalia look more "normal."
 
2022-08-20 3:23:19 AM  

Peki: Senseless_drivel: it's not as if whoever filled out your birth certificate made the decision.

Actually that's exactly what happened. A doctor looked between your legs when you were a baby, and if your genitals conformed to what was expected for a boy or for a girl, assigned you that designation on your birth certificate, with zero possibility of input from you.


Before the existence of written birth certificates, there must've been horrible confusion. Everyone was a different sex, perhaps.
 
2022-08-20 3:28:08 AM  

Roastbeast Sammich: Peki: Senseless_drivel: it's not as if whoever filled out your birth certificate made the decision.

Actually that's exactly what happened. A doctor looked between your legs when you were a baby, and if your genitals conformed to what was expected for a boy or for a girl, assigned you that designation on your birth certificate, with zero possibility of input from you.

Before the existence of written birth certificates, there must've been horrible confusion. Everyone was a different sex, perhaps.


Lots of cultures had more than two genders.

Just sayin'.
 
2022-08-20 3:45:42 AM  

Peki: Roastbeast Sammich: Peki: Senseless_drivel: it's not as if whoever filled out your birth certificate made the decision.

Actually that's exactly what happened. A doctor looked between your legs when you were a baby, and if your genitals conformed to what was expected for a boy or for a girl, assigned you that designation on your birth certificate, with zero possibility of input from you.

Before the existence of written birth certificates, there must've been horrible confusion. Everyone was a different sex, perhaps.

Lots of cultures had more than two genders.

Just sayin'.


I wonder what sex my sister might have actually been if the hospital hadn't written "F" on her document? I guess no one can ever know.
 
2022-08-20 3:46:09 AM  

killershark: If you're feeling trapped in a red state, come to Michigan. Affordable housing, culture, nature, water (hey, Arizona!). We'll even accept you if you're from Ohio. We're close to making the mittens more blue and we're the superior peninsula state (screw you, Florida!)


If my buddy from Michigan is any indication, I'll go with exactly the opposite of everything you just said.
 
2022-08-20 3:50:53 AM  

blackminded: Sword and Shield: shastacola: shastacola: Big win for Big Gretch.

I should add Dana Nessel too. She's been awesome. The women running Michigan right now are a righteous force.

Damn straight. Betting money says Whitmer wins easy.

/ Respect from the 248/313 border.

Wins, yes. Easy, no. This state gets really, really stupid outside the population centers and university towns. Plus the Devos money behind Tudor.

/Tudor is a stupid name


Can confirm that statement 100%.
Red town all over outside the population centers.

/TC resident, has seen enough MAGA shiat to cringe.
 
2022-08-20 3:57:52 AM  

talkyournonsense: Hey Americans
Can you explain this to me?
In Canada under the charter of rights and freedoms we have
"Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice."
Abortion rights are secured by this as "security of person."
Why aren't abortion rights protected under the 4th
The right of the people to be secure in their persons,
Or 14th amendment?
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws ....
Or 19th
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

Like, y'all have it in your bill of rights! The only answer I can think of is that women aren't considered citizens.

Please explain, I don't understand how your courts interpret these any other way.


Well that's obvious, you Canucks just don't understand American freedoms!   They MEANT "Bros before ho's (and slurs!.)" when they wrote that stuff - duh

/just in case - yes, /s X lots
//no, there is not rational explanation beyond the obvious one
///"WE DON'T WANNA!" from the usual suspects
 
2022-08-20 4:22:11 AM  

Roastbeast Sammich: Peki: Roastbeast Sammich: Peki: Senseless_drivel: it's not as if whoever filled out your birth certificate made the decision.

Actually that's exactly what happened. A doctor looked between your legs when you were a baby, and if your genitals conformed to what was expected for a boy or for a girl, assigned you that designation on your birth certificate, with zero possibility of input from you.

Before the existence of written birth certificates, there must've been horrible confusion. Everyone was a different sex, perhaps.

Lots of cultures had more than two genders.

Just sayin'.

I wonder what sex my sister might have actually been if the hospital hadn't written "F" on her document? I guess no one can ever know.


What an awesome question! It very clearly highlights that sexual categories are cultural constructs. Genders even more so.

If you want to know what your sister *really* is, she should be genetically tested to ensure she's XX. Otherwise, it's always an educated guess based on outward appearances.
 
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