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(Slate)   It looks like the new Game of Thrones series is going to pick up right where that horse drawing that symbolized the overall quality of the first series' seasons left off   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Fail, A Song of Ice and Fire, House Targaryen, Westeros, last show, House of the Dragon, Game of Thrones, series finale, weak King Viserys  
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3203 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Aug 2022 at 11:04 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-19 10:13:14 AM  
the show would not "shy away from" depicting violence against women, which quickly grew into the accusation that it would feature graphic depictions of sexual assault. That turns out not to be true, but the series does exist in a world where the mere act of being a woman, particularly a married woman of child-bearing age, is inherently violent.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 10:48:48 AM  
If you believe GRRM, GoT was originally inspired by War of the Roses in England during the 1400s.

The world wasn't always pretty or fair. It still isn't. Get the f*ck over it.
 
2022-08-19 10:52:47 AM  
I'm not suggesting it's going to be good or bad, but I would wait to get nearly any opinion other than Slate before making that determination.
 
2022-08-19 11:08:45 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


The folks over at Slate are cheesing their asses off again?
 
2022-08-19 11:09:27 AM  
It has not even premiered yet. Give it a chance before posting that it's the worst.
 
2022-08-19 11:12:20 AM  
I almost got a degree in Medieval history, and I can safely state that portraying women as Axlotl Tanks is a depressingly accurate representation.

The fact that a show: 1) written by a fat old guy, 2) who previously stated it was based loosely on historical reference points, 3) has a bunch of horrible shiat done to women, is not terribly surprising.

It is hard to be a libby liberal while Slate exists.
 
2022-08-19 11:13:27 AM  
This is a stupid take.

The problems that people generally had with the last couple of seasons were not "tits and dragons" or that they were "grim and misogynistic".
 
2022-08-19 11:15:09 AM  
This guy thinks that people turned against the series because it had too many tits?
 
2022-08-19 11:15:39 AM  
It is unwatchable. I don't care about the series. I loved it for about as long as anyone. It had the chance to be one great shows of all time. They just couldn't land the dismount.

Game of Thrones Season 8 Pitch Meeting
Youtube jAhKOV3nImQ
 
2022-08-19 11:15:41 AM  

Vercengetorix: I almost got a degree in Medieval history, and I can safely state that portraying women as Axlotl Tanks is a depressingly accurate representation.

The fact that a show: 1) written by a fat old guy, 2) who previously stated it was based loosely on historical reference points, 3) has a bunch of horrible shiat done to women, is not terribly surprising.


#NotAllFatOldGuys
##SoFarkOff
# is the new /
 
2022-08-19 11:16:54 AM  

moto-geek: Vercengetorix: I almost got a degree in Medieval history, and I can safely state that portraying women as Axlotl Tanks is a depressingly accurate representation.

The fact that a show: 1) written by a fat old guy, 2) who previously stated it was based loosely on historical reference points, 3) has a bunch of horrible shiat done to women, is not terribly surprising.

#NotAllFatOldGuys
##SoFarkOff
# is the new /


Fat old white guys
 
2022-08-19 11:17:04 AM  

IndyJohn: This is a stupid take.

The problems that people generally had with the last couple of seasons were not "tits and dragons" or that they were "grim and misogynistic".


Right. It was rushed and had major characters doing stupid shiat.
 
2022-08-19 11:17:53 AM  

noitsnot: moto-geek: Vercengetorix: I almost got a degree in Medieval history, and I can safely state that portraying women as Axlotl Tanks is a depressingly accurate representation.

The fact that a show: 1) written by a fat old guy, 2) who previously stated it was based loosely on historical reference points, 3) has a bunch of horrible shiat done to women, is not terribly surprising.

#NotAllFatOldGuys
##SoFarkOff
# is the new /

Fat old white guys


Fair
 
2022-08-19 11:18:01 AM  
I'm sure it will be fine. I personally, don't like "prequel" series though. Keep moving forward. Introduce new characters and tie up some loose threads.
 
2022-08-19 11:19:58 AM  
but the series does exist in a world where the mere act of being a woman, particularly a married woman of child-bearing age, is inherently violent.

oh, so like real life then
 
2022-08-19 11:20:29 AM  

Solty Dog: I'm sure it will be fine. I personally, don't like "prequel" series though. Keep moving forward. Introduce new characters and tie up some loose threads.


Watch Better Call Saul. It will change your mind about prequels. If it doesn't, get some help.
 
2022-08-19 11:21:43 AM  
There is a difference between a series depicting a misogynistic world, and a series being misogynistic.  I have yet to see the series, so I cannot say which one this is.

But while we're at it, no mention of A Game of Thrones's treatment of gay characters?  That was one major difference from the source material, where in the books, there were plenty of developed characters, some of which happened to be gay.  While in the show, there was the innate idea of homosexuality that just happened to be poured into a human-shaped object.   There is at least one homosexual character in the written work that House of a Dragon is based on, and I'm waiting to see if that was a trainwreck as well.

At the very least, we can be thankful that the original show's creator never adapted the Dunk & Egg novellas.  I hate to see them handle a certain person who was heavily flirting with Dunk in one of the novellas.  I could see them missing the fact that the joke wasn't that he was crushing heavily on him, nor all the blatant sexual innuendos, but the joke was that Dunk was so slow that he never picked up on what was going on.  (Judging from fan forums, neither did some of the readers.)
 
2022-08-19 11:21:49 AM  

IndyJohn: This is a stupid take.

The problems that people generally had with the last couple of seasons were not "tits and dragons" or that they were "grim and misogynistic".


Yep. In the end, the show was pretty much just "dragons". Part of what the first few seasons did so well was to capture the tone of the books, which are undoubtedly, "grim and misogynistic".
 
2022-08-19 11:22:01 AM  
Oh for farks sakes, am I gonna have to hear  how they should have used the eagles to drop the ring off into mount doom?
 
2022-08-19 11:22:50 AM  

Giant Clown Shoe: the show would not "shy away from" depicting violence against women, which quickly grew into the accusation that it would feature graphic depictions of sexual assault. That turns out not to be true, but the series does exist in a world where the mere act of being a woman, particularly a married woman of child-bearing age, is inherently violent.

[Fark user image 708x404]


How are they wrong?  That's a decent description of any place and any time up until ... wait, checks Alito ruling and subsequent red state laws ... until some time in the far future.
 
2022-08-19 11:23:50 AM  

Giant Clown Shoe: the show would not "shy away from" depicting violence against women, which quickly grew into the accusation that it would feature graphic depictions of sexual assault. That turns out not to be true, but the series does exist in a world where the mere act of being a woman, particularly a married woman of child-bearing age, is inherently violent.

[Fark user image image 708x404]


Blame Martin for that shiat. The books are misogynistic and rapist fantasy all too much to begin with.

I remember there was a deal when Emilia Clarke got popular enough in the role she was able to nix further nudity unless she wanted to.

And the original series was prone to throwing random ass sex/violence on screen as background fluff when doing farking narrative exposition.
 
2022-08-19 11:24:06 AM  
Prequels suck. And I think this one will suck worse then most prequels suck
 
2022-08-19 11:24:20 AM  

moto-geek: IndyJohn: This is a stupid take.

The problems that people generally had with the last couple of seasons were not "tits and dragons" or that they were "grim and misogynistic".

Right. It was rushed and had major characters doing stupid shiat.


Rushed? They had no choice. What were they supposed to do? Almost every actor on the show became so wildly in demand and expensive they had to tie it off. It just ran it's course. Shooting schedules for other productions and salaries are what they are.

Were the seasons based on the books better? (loved the Poderick/ Brienne fork in the road) Yep

Were the subsequent seasons still good? Sure.

For people who biatch about the ending, I ask them name me a long term show they loved and also loved the ending. They often can't. When you love and lose something it's often easiest to hate the end rather than remember how much you loved the beginning. 

/still in the team photo for best show in television history
 
2022-08-19 11:24:46 AM  
Was this the show about the competitive musical chairs league?
 
2022-08-19 11:26:42 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: Oh for farks sakes, am I gonna have to hear  how they should have used the eagles to drop the ring off into mount doom?


wait, what?!?
 
2022-08-19 11:27:00 AM  

phalamir: Giant Clown Shoe: the show would not "shy away from" depicting violence against women, which quickly grew into the accusation that it would feature graphic depictions of sexual assault. That turns out not to be true, but the series does exist in a world where the mere act of being a woman, particularly a married woman of child-bearing age, is inherently violent.

[Fark user image 708x404]

How are they wrong?  That's a decent description of any place and any time up until ... wait, checks Alito ruling and subsequent red state laws ... until some time in the far future.


I think its more to do with the fact that the show explicitly depicted hundreds of violent and gruesome deaths to men, yet the pearl clutchers only fixate on violence against women, despite it happening far fewer less in the show.
 
2022-08-19 11:27:44 AM  
phalamir

houstondragon


Sounds like you two won't be fans.

Don't watch it then.
 
2022-08-19 11:28:28 AM  
Depiction is not endorsement.

Does everyone think the message of Ramsay raping Sansa is "hey guys this is totally cool!"
 
2022-08-19 11:28:41 AM  
The people in the GoT world are not good people, film at 11.
 
2022-08-19 11:31:07 AM  

houstondragon: Giant Clown Shoe: the show would not "shy away from" depicting violence against women, which quickly grew into the accusation that it would feature graphic depictions of sexual assault. That turns out not to be true, but the series does exist in a world where the mere act of being a woman, particularly a married woman of child-bearing age, is inherently violent.

[Fark user image image 708x404]

Blame Martin for that shiat. The books are misogynistic and rapist fantasy all too much to begin with.

I remember there was a deal when Emilia Clarke got popular enough in the role she was able to nix further nudity unless she wanted to.

And the original series was prone to throwing random ass sex/violence on screen as background fluff when doing farking narrative exposition.


TBF, that kind of thing is more common in books (fantasy novels) than in video/film. You would have expected them to tone it down for video, but edginess, I guess.

The captivating thing about the books is the unpredictability of the plot, and sudden unexpected deaths of major characters. It was entertaining because it was not so formulaic. Otherwise, swords and dragons (yawn).
 
2022-08-19 11:31:47 AM  
Game of Thrones - Stewart Lee
Youtube LALo9M0OU30
Stewart Lee on Harry Potter Books - YouTube
 
2022-08-19 11:32:56 AM  
I just realized that Adventure Time has a more cohesive narrative then the last season of GoT.
 
2022-08-19 11:33:27 AM  

houstondragon: And the original series was prone to throwing random ass sex/violence on screen as background fluff when doing farking narrative exposition.


The original series also had a major character that happened to operate what is effectively a medieval brothel. So... sex/violence in the background wasn't exactly out of place. If they had everyone sitting around drinking tea, people would complain that they were white-washing the sex/violence inherent in those places at the time.
 
2022-08-19 11:33:33 AM  

Giant Clown Shoe: moto-geek: IndyJohn: This is a stupid take.

The problems that people generally had with the last couple of seasons were not "tits and dragons" or that they were "grim and misogynistic".

Right. It was rushed and had major characters doing stupid shiat.

Rushed? They had no choice. What were they supposed to do? Almost every actor on the show became so wildly in demand and expensive they had to tie it off. It just ran it's course. Shooting schedules for other productions and salaries are what they are.

Were the seasons based on the books better? (loved the Poderick/ Brienne fork in the road) Yep

Were the subsequent seasons still good? Sure.

For people who biatch about the ending, I ask them name me a long term show they loved and also loved the ending. They often can't. When you love and lose something it's often easiest to hate the end rather than remember how much you loved the beginning. 

/still in the team photo for best show in television history


It's good they ended before all the covid shutdowns or we would have had a 3 year delay between seasons.
 
2022-08-19 11:36:24 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: The people in the GoT world are not good people, film at 11.


Sounds like the issue the article writer has is that there are no good people in this one. Whereas GoT at least had some people trying to be good... but, as has been pointed out, it's also Slate, so that needs to be taken into consideration. I'll watch the first couple episodes and see what I think. I've got so much other stuff I want to watch, and video games I want to play, and shiat I need to do around the house, that if this isn't any good, it's not like I'll be left without anything to fill my time
 
2022-08-19 11:36:50 AM  
Dear Slate:

People paid money to witness "The Crash at Crush."  There was no plot, there was no story, and everybody had at least some idea that it was going to be destructive, chaotic violence going into it.

"House of the Dragon" is expected to be pretty much exactly that.  My guess is that fewer of the audience will die than at Crush, but we'll see.
 
2022-08-19 11:37:57 AM  

AntonChigger: Depiction is not endorsement.

Does everyone think the message of Ramsay raping Sansa is "hey guys this is totally cool!"


Depiction isn't not endorsement, either. It all depends on how it's shown and why. If a show has a lot of rape in it, like a lot, then at some point we start going, "OK what's up with all this rape?" Like, how many rape scenes do you need to prove to the audience that rape is bad? It starts to look like "Rape is bad, but man, I just love filming it."

Also, we rarely see scenes of men being raped, only women.
 
2022-08-19 11:39:10 AM  
JFC

If you thought the original got too grim and misogynistic, wait till you see House of the Dragon.

Miguel Sapochnik, the Game of Thrones veteran who serves as House of the Dragon's co-showrunner, spawned an internet rage cycle last month when he told an interviewer that the show would not "shy away from" depicting violence against women, which quickly grew into the accusation that it would feature graphic depictions of sexual assault.


GoT had some of the worst aspects of humanity, and it's refreshing to acknowledge it in a setting that is fake (i.e. a TV show, and it's not actually happening to real people).  Game of Thrones has never been about promoting the worst aspects of humanity such as misogyny.  If the only shows you want to see are ones where everything is happy-go-lucky and only has the best of humanity, then just don't watch it.

If you saw a brother and sister having sex, a dude in a cabin in the far north having sex with his daughter wives, and the various rapes, and said "hey that sounds fun", that's on you, not the TV show.  If you saw people manipulating, using, and killing people for power and said "hey I wish I could do that", that's on you, not the TV show. If anything, GoT was a cautionary tale of the worst of humanity, as most of the players in the game usually ended up dead.  If you want to reduce the worst of humanity, you can't ignore it.  Be disgusted by it and learn.
 
2022-08-19 11:40:43 AM  
HBO uses tits and ass in the first season to get watchers.  Later on, the tit spigot turns way down or even off on almost all shows.
 
2022-08-19 11:41:13 AM  

moto-geek: noitsnot: moto-geek: Vercengetorix: I almost got a degree in Medieval history, and I can safely state that portraying women as Axlotl Tanks is a depressingly accurate representation.

The fact that a show: 1) written by a fat old guy, 2) who previously stated it was based loosely on historical reference points, 3) has a bunch of horrible shiat done to women, is not terribly surprising.

#NotAllFatOldGuys
##SoFarkOff
# is the new /

Fat old white guys

Fair


Who knew that old, fat men were such snowflakes.

~Not fat
~~Kinda old
~~~Comment is still accurate
 
2022-08-19 11:43:04 AM  

Giant Clown Shoe: moto-geek: IndyJohn: This is a stupid take.

The problems that people generally had with the last couple of seasons were not "tits and dragons" or that they were "grim and misogynistic".

Right. It was rushed and had major characters doing stupid shiat.

Rushed? They had no choice. What were they supposed to do? Almost every actor on the show became so wildly in demand and expensive they had to tie it off. It just ran it's course. Shooting schedules for other productions and salaries are what they are.

Were the seasons based on the books better? (loved the Poderick/ Brienne fork in the road) Yep

Were the subsequent seasons still good? Sure.

For people who biatch about the ending, I ask them name me a long term show they loved and also loved the ending. They often can't. When you love and lose something it's often easiest to hate the end rather than remember how much you loved the beginning.

/still in the team photo for best show in television history



Breaking Bad
Better Call Saul
Twin Peaks
Avatar The Last Airbender
Bojack Horseman
 
2022-08-19 11:45:34 AM  

austerity101: AntonChigger: Depiction is not endorsement.

Does everyone think the message of Ramsay raping Sansa is "hey guys this is totally cool!"

Depiction isn't not endorsement, either. It all depends on how it's shown and why. If a show has a lot of rape in it, like a lot, then at some point we start going, "OK what's up with all this rape?" Like, how many rape scenes do you need to prove to the audience that rape is bad? It starts to look like "Rape is bad, but man, I just love filming it."

Also, we rarely see scenes of men being raped, only women.


A man getting raped would likely be raped by another man, and then they'd be accused of being homophobes.
 
2022-08-19 11:45:43 AM  

Vercengetorix: moto-geek: noitsnot: moto-geek: Vercengetorix: I almost got a degree in Medieval history, and I can safely state that portraying women as Axlotl Tanks is a depressingly accurate representation.

The fact that a show: 1) written by a fat old guy, 2) who previously stated it was based loosely on historical reference points, 3) has a bunch of horrible shiat done to women, is not terribly surprising.

#NotAllFatOldGuys
##SoFarkOff
# is the new /

Fat old white guys

Fair

Who knew that old, fat men were such snowflakes.

~Not fat
~~Kinda old
~~~Comment is still accurate


Not fat or old or white for that matter. It's just lazy to say cuz the fat old bastard wrote it, of course it's depicting violence against women. A show about war is going to show some booms, so will a show set in (magical) medieval times show that women drew the short straw.
 
2022-08-19 11:46:42 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: austerity101: AntonChigger: Depiction is not endorsement.

Does everyone think the message of Ramsay raping Sansa is "hey guys this is totally cool!"

Depiction isn't not endorsement, either. It all depends on how it's shown and why. If a show has a lot of rape in it, like a lot, then at some point we start going, "OK what's up with all this rape?" Like, how many rape scenes do you need to prove to the audience that rape is bad? It starts to look like "Rape is bad, but man, I just love filming it."

Also, we rarely see scenes of men being raped, only women.

A man getting raped would likely be raped by another man, and then they'd be accused of being homophobes.


Now I'm not sure if the Spartacus series on Starz was progressive or homophobic
 
2022-08-19 11:47:12 AM  

mrparks: I just realized that Adventure Time has a more cohesive narrative then the last season of GoT.


Another series with an enjoyable ending.
Adventure Time | Come Along With Me Finale Song | Cartoon Network
Youtube mIkS8eGCKOU
 
2022-08-19 11:49:35 AM  
Star Wars fanboies = Game of Thrones fanboies on the insufferability index. And, in both cases, 99.99999% of them could not write, produce or direct anything that anyone except their parents would watch.
 
2022-08-19 11:52:31 AM  

IndyJohn: This is a stupid take.

The problems that people generally had with the last couple of seasons were not "tits and dragons" or that they were "grim and misogynistic".


Sure season 6 wasn't very good but season 5 was decent.

/yes I know there were 8 seasons
 
2022-08-19 11:53:59 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: austerity101: AntonChigger: Depiction is not endorsement.

Does everyone think the message of Ramsay raping Sansa is "hey guys this is totally cool!"

Depiction isn't not endorsement, either. It all depends on how it's shown and why. If a show has a lot of rape in it, like a lot, then at some point we start going, "OK what's up with all this rape?" Like, how many rape scenes do you need to prove to the audience that rape is bad? It starts to look like "Rape is bad, but man, I just love filming it."

Also, we rarely see scenes of men being raped, only women.

A man getting raped would likely be raped by another man, and then they'd be accused of being homophobes.


They're accused of being misogynists and that doesn't stop them. Why should accusations of homophobia?
 
2022-08-19 11:55:28 AM  

Creoena: GoT had some of the worst aspects of humanity, and it's refreshing to acknowledge it in a setting that is fake (i.e. a TV show, and it's not actually happening to real people).  Game of Thrones has never been about promoting the worst aspects of humanity such as misogyny.  If the only shows you want to see are ones where everything is happy-go-lucky and only has the best of humanity, then just don't watch it.

If you saw a brother and sister having sex, a dude in a cabin in the far north having sex with his daughter wives, and the various rapes, and said "hey that sounds fun", that's on you, not the TV show.  If you saw people manipulating, using, and killing people for power and said "hey I wish I could do that", that's on you, not the TV show. If anything, GoT was a cautionary tale of the worst of humanity, as most of the players in the game usually ended up dead.  If you want to reduce the worst of humanity, you can't ignore it.  Be disgusted by it and learn.


It can be a fine line between depicting sexual violence because it advances the story and depicting it gratuitously.

I'm not saying whether GoT crossed that line.  But for me, watching sexual violence is hard.  There's no deep psychological reason for it; I am just an empathetic guy and sexual violence is real, so when it is depicted graphically I get very uncomfortable.  I can watch the most over-the-top gratuitous cartoon-like violence no problem.  But I can barely sit through a rape scene.

Who knows what this show will bring, but I have a low tolerance limit.  The minute it goes beyond the story to depict a rape that doesn't need to happen, I am done.
 
2022-08-19 11:56:33 AM  

austerity101: AntonChigger: Depiction is not endorsement.

Does everyone think the message of Ramsay raping Sansa is "hey guys this is totally cool!"

Depiction isn't not endorsement, either. It all depends on how it's shown and why. If a show has a lot of rape in it, like a lot, then at some point we start going, "OK what's up with all this rape?" Like, how many rape scenes do you need to prove to the audience that rape is bad? It starts to look like "Rape is bad, but man, I just love filming it."

Also, we rarely see scenes of men being raped, only women.


The brutality against Sansa was the foundation of her turning the dogs loose on Ramsay.
 
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