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(Twitter)   There's over 18 gigawatts of offshore wind projects stuck in the permitting process in the US   (twitter.com) divider line
    More: Murica, shot  
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562 clicks; posted to STEM » on 19 Aug 2022 at 7:05 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



32 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-08-19 12:44:24 AM  
Original Tweet:

 
2022-08-19 6:49:22 AM  
So there are TEN DeLoreans waiting to return so Marty can steal the almanac back from the Mar-a-Lago safe?
 
2022-08-19 7:04:03 AM  
Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard
 
2022-08-19 7:11:04 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: So there are TEN DeLoreans waiting to return so Marty can steal the almanac back from the Mar-a-Lago safe?


I bet Biff has something to do with this...
 
2022-08-19 7:15:42 AM  
Great Scott!
 
2022-08-19 7:20:12 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 7:20:17 AM  
I'd like to see a better breakdown of that permitting bucket.  How many are waiting on relevant state agencies, and which states?  Also, Under Construction says "Onshore upgrades are underway" - which makes me wonder how complicated the onshore grid upgrades/access/permitting/construction is, and if that holds up state permitting anywhere.

More questions than answers on this info-table
 
2022-08-19 7:20:56 AM  

baka-san: Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard


Yes, but All offshore permitting should be - not just GREEN initiatives - but all that offshore drilling too - which seems to have less push back, because of established money.
 
2022-08-19 7:55:10 AM  

baka-san: Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard


Meanwhile:

tse3.mm.bing.netView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 8:01:07 AM  

NewportBarGuy: baka-san: Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard

Meanwhile:

[tse3.mm.bing.net image 474x355]


Yup, maybe it should be substantially easier to get offshore permits for wind than for this:
c.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 8:28:03 AM  

baka-san: Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard


This. As much as I'd like to see green energy taking over the economy, offshore construction projects need to be carefully considered. We've already screwed up the oceans pretty badly as it is.
 
2022-08-19 8:34:00 AM  

Munden: I'd like to see a better breakdown of that permitting bucket.  How many are waiting on relevant state agencies, and which states?  Also, Under Construction says "Onshore upgrades are underway" - which makes me wonder how complicated the onshore grid upgrades/access/permitting/construction is, and if that holds up state permitting anywhere.

More questions than answers on this info-table


You forgot lawsuits from NIMBYs.
 
2022-08-19 8:48:27 AM  
How many of those permit applications are real funded business propositions and how many are speculative gambles?  What is the bar for entry into the permit application process?  Is it a $100 filing fee or do you have to show investment funding and industrial capacity to actually complete the project?
 
2022-08-19 8:53:31 AM  

cefm: How many of those permit applications are real funded business propositions and how many are speculative gambles?  What is the bar for entry into the permit application process?  Is it a $100 filing fee or do you have to show investment funding and industrial capacity to actually complete the project?


The chart seems to imply that they have already obtained a lease (well obtained the rights to a lease at least), as well as completed a survey of the area.
 
2022-08-19 9:06:42 AM  

leviosaurus: baka-san: Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard

This. As much as I'd like to see green energy taking over the economy, offshore construction projects need to be carefully considered. We've already screwed up the oceans pretty badly as it is.


Maybe they are just trying to avoid another wind-spill ecological disaster.
 
2022-08-19 10:24:53 AM  
Well. That is major BS. So 700 times the capacity for offshore wind is waiting for permitting than the installed base? I am a little out of sorts, so move my decimal points if necessary.

Are we in an existential crisis, or not? These are projects that, presumably, have all their financing and business cases sorted out, and are just being held up. If we don't have time for plug in hybrids, then we don't have time to drag out all of this paperwork. I was under the impression that bills have been passed, and bans have been instated, and that everyone is on board for "batteries for the future."

I suppose we can just wait until it is too late and just approve everything, or we can move along a little and get some projects going, at least the ones that are not on the bubble.

Sheesh.

/ I repeat, sheesh.
/ Why not oil platforms that are not being used? Save someone the cost of destroying those.
// Generate hydrogen or whatever if you can't run cables to the mainland.
 
2022-08-19 10:40:15 AM  
I think "stuck" is the wrong word.  Something like "working through" is more appropriate.

Even beyond the state and federal approvals, there are other more basic questions that have to be answered such as: where are these windfarms going to "plug in"?  The grid, roughly speaking is not inherently built to accommodate gigawatts of offshore power. So these windfarms have to identify the best spots to connect. And those "best" spots are probably not perfect.  So even after those spots are identified, there will probably be a couple years worth of local grid upgrades required.
 
2022-08-19 10:52:35 AM  

Dave and the Mission: leviosaurus: baka-san: Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard

This. As much as I'd like to see green energy taking over the economy, offshore construction projects need to be carefully considered. We've already screwed up the oceans pretty badly as it is.

Maybe they are just trying to avoid another wind-spill ecological disaster.


I'm more worried about a bunch of construction guys pouring concrete over a critical reef environment.
 
2022-08-19 12:21:22 PM  

leviosaurus: Dave and the Mission: leviosaurus: baka-san: Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard

This. As much as I'd like to see green energy taking over the economy, offshore construction projects need to be carefully considered. We've already screwed up the oceans pretty badly as it is.

Maybe they are just trying to avoid another wind-spill ecological disaster.

I'm more worried about a bunch of construction guys pouring concrete over a critical reef environment.


Do they pour concrete for these?  That's not sarcasm or anything-- genuinely curious.  I know sometimes they float, but I genuinely have no idea how the foundations for the other types are built.  I sorta figured there was a big piling (or several pilings) driven in, but even that could be inaccurate.
 
2022-08-19 12:35:17 PM  

kneubra: I think "stuck" is the wrong word.  Something like "working through" is more appropriate.

Even beyond the state and federal approvals, there are other more basic questions that have to be answered such as: where are these windfarms going to "plug in"?  The grid, roughly speaking is not inherently built to accommodate gigawatts of offshore power. So these windfarms have to identify the best spots to connect. And those "best" spots are probably not perfect.  So even after those spots are identified, there will probably be a couple years worth of local grid upgrades required.


Yeah, this.  I'm all for increasing renewable energy sources, but too many of the deals I've seen are basically tax shelters where the underlying economics don't work and there's no plan or provision for cleanup once the platforms reach end of life.  So a bunch of rich people will get richer on tax subsidies, once the subsidies go away maintenance and upgrades are no longer economic so they shut down and society is left with a bunch of rusting pylons out in the ocean.  But hey, at least the rich investors got their return and everyone got to think they were doing something meaningful to solve the problem.
 
2022-08-19 12:35:38 PM  

raygundan: leviosaurus: Dave and the Mission: leviosaurus: baka-san: Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard

This. As much as I'd like to see green energy taking over the economy, offshore construction projects need to be carefully considered. We've already screwed up the oceans pretty badly as it is.

Maybe they are just trying to avoid another wind-spill ecological disaster.

I'm more worried about a bunch of construction guys pouring concrete over a critical reef environment.

Do they pour concrete for these?  That's not sarcasm or anything-- genuinely curious.  I know sometimes they float, but I genuinely have no idea how the foundations for the other types are built.  I sorta figured there was a big piling (or several pilings) driven in, but even that could be inaccurate.


Different wind turbine foundations.

As you might guess, it depends on water depth. Concrete foundations are only used in shallow water.
 
2022-08-19 1:33:52 PM  

Priapetic: kneubra: I think "stuck" is the wrong word.  Something like "working through" is more appropriate.

Even beyond the state and federal approvals, there are other more basic questions that have to be answered such as: where are these windfarms going to "plug in"?  The grid, roughly speaking is not inherently built to accommodate gigawatts of offshore power. So these windfarms have to identify the best spots to connect. And those "best" spots are probably not perfect.  So even after those spots are identified, there will probably be a couple years worth of local grid upgrades required.

Yeah, this.  I'm all for increasing renewable energy sources, but too many of the deals I've seen are basically tax shelters where the underlying economics don't work and there's no plan or provision for cleanup once the platforms reach end of life.  So a bunch of rich people will get richer on tax subsidies, once the subsidies go away maintenance and upgrades are no longer economic so they shut down and society is left with a bunch of rusting pylons out in the ocean.  But hey, at least the rich investors got their return and everyone got to think they were doing something meaningful to solve the problem.


Utilities should be nationalized. End of.
 
2022-08-19 1:49:47 PM  

natazha: raygundan: leviosaurus: Dave and the Mission: leviosaurus: baka-san: Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard

This. As much as I'd like to see green energy taking over the economy, offshore construction projects need to be carefully considered. We've already screwed up the oceans pretty badly as it is.

Maybe they are just trying to avoid another wind-spill ecological disaster.

I'm more worried about a bunch of construction guys pouring concrete over a critical reef environment.

Do they pour concrete for these?  That's not sarcasm or anything-- genuinely curious.  I know sometimes they float, but I genuinely have no idea how the foundations for the other types are built.  I sorta figured there was a big piling (or several pilings) driven in, but even that could be inaccurate.

Different wind turbine foundations.

As you might guess, it depends on water depth. Concrete foundations are only used in shallow water.


Thanks for the info. I would still want to triple check that the contractors are using the correct method for the correct location and are ready to show evidence that it was done correctly afterwards. Somebody like Halliburton would find the cheapest, fastest way to get the paycheck, environmental concerns be damned.
 
2022-08-19 2:07:18 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 2:41:29 PM  

baka-san: Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard


Agreed, but maybe just a little less hard than they make it for the oil companies...
 
2022-08-19 5:08:24 PM  

NewportBarGuy: baka-san: Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard

Meanwhile:

[tse3.mm.bing.net image 474x355]


Why it should be hard
 
2022-08-19 5:12:13 PM  

Livinglush: baka-san: Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard

Agreed, but maybe just a little less hard than they make it for the oil companies...


Construction projects in general tend to fark things up

But we need to get away from offshore drilling, we have enough reserves to make the switch to renewable and ev

And with enough left over for those of us who have beloved or colecter cars or both to pay through the ass to keep our babies running
 
2022-08-19 5:40:39 PM  
Also to consider....
- limited onshore infrastructure to support offshore construction.  Its coming, but still fairly early.
- lots of marine stakeholders...fishing, commercial traffic,  military
- domestic standards still being developed...how close can turbines be and still safely accommodate search and rescue operations

There is so much more than just a magicaly permit document involved
 
2022-08-19 8:09:46 PM  

baka-san: Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard


Being hard doesn't equal never happening.
 
2022-08-19 8:39:44 PM  
Not mentioned above nor in the Farking Tweet... How long have these projects actually been "tied up" in permitting?  The US has been kind of slow on the whole-hearted adoption that some other nations have done and I suspect we're seeing a boom in new projects... which may also be slowing the permitting process.

TFT makes it sound like we'd all be swimming in wind power were it not for all the permitting "tie ups".  Like it's been holding up off-shore wind farms for decades.  I'd be surprised to see that the majority have been waiting more than 5 years.
 
2022-08-19 8:43:59 PM  

baka-san: NewportBarGuy: baka-san: Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard

Meanwhile:

[tse3.mm.bing.net image 474x355]

Why it should be hard


It will NEVER be hard.  If your mom is involved.
 
2022-08-19 8:46:47 PM  

NewportBarGuy: baka-san: Offshore permitting SHOULD be hard

Meanwhile 12 years ago:

Fark user imageView Full Size



FTFY
 
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